Football: Columbia to end the season instead of Penn?

from [www.gocolumbialions.com]

Columbia University released its future football schedules through the year 2022, Patricia and Shepard Alexander Head Coach of Football Al Bagnoli announced on Wednesday.…

A slight change in the Ivy League order of games is also evident as Columbia will conclude its regular season schedules against Cornell instead of Brown beginning in 2018.

Whose brilliant idea was this, I wonder? We have never ended our season vs. Columbia. For the grand majority of our early history it was Penn; during the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, we alternated between Princeton and Penn; since 1988, it's been Penn.

Whether the intention here was to create a rivalry or to manufacture a situation—now completely dubious—in which Cornell is more likely to end the season on a positive note, this change is beyond idiotic.

No one cares about our "rivalry" with Columbia, and no one ever will. I hate this kind of crap.

Scersk '97
from [www.gocolumbialions.com]

Columbia University released its future football schedules through the year 2022, Patricia and Shepard Alexander Head Coach of Football Al Bagnoli announced on Wednesday.…

A slight change in the Ivy League order of games is also evident as Columbia will conclude its regular season schedules against Cornell instead of Brown beginning in 2018.

Whose brilliant idea was this, I wonder? We have never ended our season vs. Columbia. For the grand majority of our early history it was Penn; during the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, we alternated between Princeton and Penn; since 1988, it's been Penn.

Whether the intention here was to create a rivalry or to manufacture a situation—now completely dubious—in which Cornell is more likely to end the season on a positive note, this change is beyond idiotic.

No one cares about our "rivalry" with Columbia, and no one ever will. I hate this kind of crap.

I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Scersk '97
from [www.gocolumbialions.com]

Columbia University released its future football schedules through the year 2022, Patricia and Shepard Alexander Head Coach of Football Al Bagnoli announced on Wednesday.…

A slight change in the Ivy League order of games is also evident as Columbia will conclude its regular season schedules against Cornell instead of Brown beginning in 2018.

Whose brilliant idea was this, I wonder? We have never ended our season vs. Columbia. For the grand majority of our early history it was Penn; during the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, we alternated between Princeton and Penn; since 1988, it's been Penn.

Whether the intention here was to create a rivalry or to manufacture a situation—now completely dubious—in which Cornell is more likely to end the season on a positive note, this change is beyond idiotic.

No one cares about our "rivalry" with Columbia, and no one ever will. I hate this kind of crap.

Maybe in prior years, but since Columbia's administration finally straightened out their football program, it's highly unlikely it will end on a positive note in the future seasons unless Cornell's administration does the same thing.

Ken711

Scersk '97

Whether the intention here was to create a rivalry or to manufacture a situation—now completely dubious—in which Cornell is more likely to end the season on a positive note, this change is beyond idiotic.

Maybe in prior years, but since Columbia's administration finally straightened out their football program, it's highly unlikely it will end on a positive note in the future seasons unless Cornell's administration does the same thing.

That was kind of my point.

scoop85
I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Ah, yes, there is after all that storied rivalry with Colgate in hockey; and, indeed, how Columbia is two miles or so (as the crow flies) closer than Princeton just makes me want to forget those Tigers and tear up the Lions!

Geography is certainly a factor in rivalries, but history is far more important. This just smacks of someone's "good idea."

Scersk '97

scoop85
I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Ah, yes, there is after all that storied rivalry with Colgate in hockey; and, indeed, how Columbia is two miles or so (as the crow flies) closer than Princeton just makes me want to forget those Tigers and tear up the Lions!

Geography is certainly a factor in rivalries, but history is far more important. This just smacks of someone's "good idea."

This isn't about a Cornell rivalry with anyone. This is about the Penn-Princeton rivalry. Cornell-Columbia is simply collateral damage.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Scersk '97

scoop85
I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Ah, yes, there is after all that storied rivalry with Colgate in hockey; and, indeed, how Columbia is two miles or so (as the crow flies) closer than Princeton just makes me want to forget those Tigers and tear up the Lions!

Geography is certainly a factor in rivalries, but history is far more important. This just smacks of someone's "good idea."

This isn't about a Cornell rivalry with anyone. This is about the Penn-Princeton rivalry. Cornell-Columbia is simply collateral damage.

Do you have that on good authority?

If so—if this is about Penn–Princeton rather than the manufacturing of some rivalry with Columbia, probably based on our recent forays into being "New York's University," however one might decide to construe that moniker—then I think it's even more pathetic, since then a basketball rivalry has bled over into one of the more venerable institutions. To put it another way, imagine if we moved everything around to end our season in lacrosse with Harvard every year because, well, there's that hockey thing…

Anyway, I'm sure Princeton students and alums don't consider Penn their rivals in anything but basketball. They look rather toward Harvard and Yale. That being said, there's no doubt Penn-Princeton generates far more local interest than Penn-Cornell, so I'm sure it looks more like a rivalry game to casual fans and sports marketing types. Yet, in the end, Penn has found itself a dancing partner that would, generally, rather not.

Scersk '97

Jeff Hopkins '82

Scersk '97

scoop85
I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Ah, yes, there is after all that storied rivalry with Colgate in hockey; and, indeed, how Columbia is two miles or so (as the crow flies) closer than Princeton just makes me want to forget those Tigers and tear up the Lions!

Geography is certainly a factor in rivalries, but history is far more important. This just smacks of someone's "good idea."

This isn't about a Cornell rivalry with anyone. This is about the Penn-Princeton rivalry. Cornell-Columbia is simply collateral damage.

Do you have that on good authority?

If so—if this is about Penn–Princeton rather than the manufacturing of some rivalry with Columbia, probably based on our recent forays into being "New York's University," however one might decide to construe that moniker—then I think it's even more pathetic, since then a basketball rivalry has bled over into one of the more venerable institutions. To put it another way, imagine if we moved everything around to end our season in lacrosse with Harvard every year because, well, there's that hockey thing…

Anyway, I'm sure Princeton students and alums don't consider Penn their rivals in anything but basketball. They look rather toward Harvard and Yale. That being said, there's no doubt Penn-Princeton generates far more local interest than Penn-Cornell, so I'm sure it looks more like a rivalry game to casual fans and sports marketing types. Yet, in the end, Penn has found itself a dancing partner that would, generally, rather not.

They've been branding the Cornell-Columbia game the Empire State Bowl or something like that for a while. The truth is that the only real bilateral rivalry in the Ivy League is Harvard-Yale. Everything else ebbs and flows with the success of teams in particular sports and pretending otherwise is silly. The only reason I hate this move is that I like to take my son to the game in NYC every other year and I oppose anything that makes it more likely that it will be freezing cold.

ugarte
The truth is that the only real bilateral rivalry in the Ivy League is Harvard-Yale.

Princeton-Yale used to be the Battle for New York when the Ivies were the playpen of Upper Class Twits of the Year.

But then Fitzgerald graduated and they started admitting women and Jews and it all went to shit...

Well, although it was lopsided, the Cornell-Penn rivalry does have some historic legitimacy, especially in the 1930s. It was on Thanksgiving, nationally broadcast, and played before crowds of about 60,000. Prior to the 1930s, Penn had won six national championships, Cornell would win its fifth NC in 1939, a season that it beat Syracuse, Ohio State, Penn State, and (of course) Penn.

None of this is likely to happen again in our lifetimes, but there's considerable merit in preserving a tradition harking back to the days when student-athletes were students first and collegiate football wasn't a multinational corporate oligopoly.

Swampy
Well, although it was lopsided, the Cornell-Penn rivalry does have some historic legitimacy, especially in the 1930s. It was on Thanksgiving, nationally broadcast, and played before crowds of about 60,000. Prior to the 1930s, Penn had won six national championships, Cornell would win its fifth NC in 1939, a season that it beat Syracuse, Ohio State, Penn State, and (of course) Penn.

ugarte
The truth is that the only real bilateral rivalry in the Ivy League is Harvard-Yale. Everything else ebbs and flows with the success of teams in particular sports and pretending otherwise is silly.

Swampy
harking back to the days when student-athletes were students first

Cough. Uh, sure.

[www.youtube.com]

Same year as this came out, by this guy.

In the fall of 1931, he characterized the college football program as a "semiprofessional racket". He was expelled in April 1932, but following student protests he was readmitted twenty days later. In the fall of 1932, he published King Football: The Vulgarization of the American College (1932), an exposé of commercialism in college football and an attack on higher education that accused United States schools of turning out "regimented lead soldiers of mediocrity". "To put forth winning football teams," he wrote, "alumni, faculty and trustees will lie, cheat and steal, unofficially."

That's the 1930s, and it's about that noted football factory Columbia.

It's always been corrupt, and the stereotype of the Joe Rockhead football player started in the sanctimonious halls of Ivy.

Apparently, not all of the Columbia fans are happy about their team's sudden football success.

“The pure joy of Columbia football is that we’re not supposed to be good,” said Sahil Godiwala, Columbia College class of 1999.

dbilmes

“The pure joy of Columbia football is that we’re not supposed to be good,” said Sahil Godiwala, Columbia College class of 1999.

I am 100% certain this person never went to a game and only "enjoyed" the failure of the team passively and ironically. He can go jump in the Harlem River. Maybe then he'll finally see the stadium.

EDIT BEFORE EVEN POSTING: I decided to read the article and while I was right about Mr. Godiwala as a hipster student coping with a team that was always bad, he's enjoying their current success so he's ok by me.

Scersk '97

Jeff Hopkins '82

Scersk '97

scoop85
I think the idea was that Columbia is our most “natural” rival geographically, and the league wants Penn to finish against Princeton, their natural geographic rival. Nothing nefarious about the move.

Ah, yes, there is after all that storied rivalry with Colgate in hockey; and, indeed, how Columbia is two miles or so (as the crow flies) closer than Princeton just makes me want to forget those Tigers and tear up the Lions!

Geography is certainly a factor in rivalries, but history is far more important. This just smacks of someone's "good idea."

This isn't about a Cornell rivalry with anyone. This is about the Penn-Princeton rivalry. Cornell-Columbia is simply collateral damage.

Do you have that on good authority?

Nope, just my typical tin foil hat paranoia.

Trotsky

Swampy
harking back to the days when student-athletes were students first

Cough. Uh, sure.

[www.youtube.com]

Same year as this came out, by this guy.

In the fall of 1931, he characterized the college football program as a "semiprofessional racket". He was expelled in April 1932, but following student protests he was readmitted twenty days later. In the fall of 1932, he published King Football: The Vulgarization of the American College (1932), an exposé of commercialism in college football and an attack on higher education that accused United States schools of turning out "regimented lead soldiers of mediocrity". "To put forth winning football teams," he wrote, "alumni, faculty and trustees will lie, cheat and steal, unofficially."

That's the 1930s, and it's about that noted football factory Columbia.

Alright, I wrote that holding my breath and hoping I was right about the timing of monied corruption. But, for example, I am familiar with the CCNY point-shaving scandal of the early 1950s, so I am not so naive. While no doubt there was corruption before WWII, I do firmly believe that the advent of TV and expansion of mass consumption after the war brought it to new heights.

Last, but not least, there's this ad hominem observation, based on Harris's bio, that he was a commie, despite his testimony before the committee headed by the esteemed Sen. McCarthy of Wisconsin. Why should we believe anything a red like that wrote? MAGA

This is about getting Princeton a better final game. As noted above, Cornell is collateral damage. Had we been a more serious team the last, ah, sixty years, keeping it the Penn-Cornell finale made perfect sense.

I'd vote for H-Y-P round robin where 2 of these 3 have the final game and the third gets stuck with Penn or Columbia. Not that this would ever happen.

Al Bagnoli is 64 and won't last forever at Columbia. They'll slip back to their sub-.500 ways.

We could have snared Bagnoli away from Union when Maxie Baughan suddenly departed after the 1989 season; a year later, Penn recruited him. But that's hindsight to know that he would continue to be a great coach at a higher level.

At least the Cornell-at-Columbia football games fall in the year when Cornell-BU isn't at the Garden but there is a Cornell-somebody else hockey game. That means big Cornell sports events in NYC in back to back weeks.

billhoward
That means big Cornell sports events in NYC in back to back weeks.

What is the turnout like when Cornell plays at Columbia in Football? Basketball? Obviously a big NYC alumni base.

CU2007

billhoward
That means big Cornell sports events in NYC in back to back weeks.

What is the turnout like when Cornell plays at Columbia in Football? Basketball? Obviously a big NYC alumni base.

Football turnout is decent - though like at Cornell, the stadium far outstrips interest.

Levien has been full for basketball recently.

For the whole football factory thing, we had a history of playing both sides of it back in the 20s. My grandfather was the tackle/placekicker on the early 20s unbeaten powerhouse teams. They were invited to play in the 1923 Rose Bowl, but the university turned down the invitation because fall term finals were after the New Year break, and the team wouldn't have made it back to Ithaca in time.
On the other hand, I read a story somewhere talking about one of the running backs on that team showing up in Ithaca and not being all that interested in academics, yet somehow making it through 4 years and graduating. So we're not as snow-white pure as we might like to think.