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Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015

Posted by Ronald '09 
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Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: semsox (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: May 01, 2015 07:09PM

Al DeFlorio
Greenberg '97
And after yesterday's results, they now have an 80.92% chance of receiving an at-large bid. So I guess that 100% from earlier in the week wasn't really 100%.
Wonder what it is after today's debacle. Three goals in three periods against a porous defense? With five returning players in the offensive end, two of whom are All-Americans, you'd think they'd have a consistent offense. Long scoring droughts are the norm this year. Offense is stagnant with little movement and seemingly little purpose much of the time. I'm not convinced about Kerwick. He's wasted a lot of senior talent this year.

The long scoring droughts weren't due to lack of offense, we just didn't have the ball. I don't think we had a single set offensive possession until < 4 minutes to go in the 3rd period. Part of that was Currier eating Massimilan's lunch at the face-off X. I don't know what the final numbers were, but that adjustment won the game for Princeton. Would have like Kerwick to try Schattner there like he did last week for a short stretch. If Princeton wants to muck it up, might as well do the same. Discouraging effort going into the most important part of the season. Wonder where the team will get sent this year.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: toddlose (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 01, 2015 07:33PM

semsox
Al DeFlorio
Greenberg '97
And after yesterday's results, they no80.92% chance of receiving an at-large bid. So I guess that 100% from earlier in the week wasn't really 100%.
Wonder what it is after today's debacle. Three goals in three periods against a porous defense? With five returning players in the offensive end, two of whom are All-Americans, you'd think they'd have a consistent offense. Long scoring droughts are the norm this year. Offense is stagnant with little movement and seemingly little purpose much of the time. I'm not convinced about Kerwick. He's wasted a lot of senior talent this year.

Wonder where the team will get sent this year.

Might as well just get sent home.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 01, 2015 07:54PM

semsox

The long scoring droughts weren't due to lack of offense, we just didn't have the ball. I don't think we had a single set offensive possession until < 4 minutes to go in the 3rd period. Part of that was Currier eating Massimilan's lunch at the face-off X.
Nonsense. Faceoffs were 6-3 Cornell at the half. Cornell couldn't hold on to the ball in the offensive zone. We again made an ordinary goalie look like Butch Hilliard with weak shot selection.

We had a drought against Brown in periods two, three, and four. Followed by a shut-out first period against Princeton. Second half against Penn and Colgate. First 50+ minutes against Virginia. Happened too often. Offense simply sucks. Reminds me of the Bill Courtney half-court basketball offense.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: rss77 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: May 01, 2015 09:36PM

Agreed much like the basketball team-Many shots on goal but subpar shooting percentage. I think at one time they were 51st in the country in shot percentage. Again Cornell has shown an inability this season to establish an inside offensive game and the attack outside of Donovan was subpar.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 02, 2015 01:12AM

To add to the discontent: for a veteran team, some players made incredibly stupid decisions.

Case in point: Who was it that tried to make that 100-yard pass that was intercepted? It came while we were making our run and had just caused a turnover. We may be lucky that our player on the receiving end of the pass didn't catch the high floater because he might have had his clock rung if he had.

The players seemed to forget even fundamental things like running through groundballs rather than standing and raking.

As others have pointed out on the Laxpower forum, there's no evidence younger players have developed this season or even that developing them has been a concern.

The faceoff stats are misleading. Dom won the initial faceoff even more than the statistics indicate. But Princeton coaches noticed his limited ball-handling skills and average speed, and they figured out that if they double-teamed him they could make him cough up the ball -- something he did regularly. If I were his coach, I'd have him spending at least half an hour at practice each day working on ball handling skills and have him play box lacrosse in the off season. Also, running stairs to add a step.

I couldn't help but notice how quick and crisp Princeton's passing was, especially when man up. Ours was fine -- as long as we were passing around the perimeter and not being covered. When we passed into dangerous locations, Princeton was right there and often intercepted.

And I don't know how many goals Princeton scored from the midfield, but it seems most of them came from there. If you look at film from the Harvard and Brown games, I think you'll find their goals came from more or less the same spots and the same way: get a step on one of our SSDM's and fire from around 15 yards out! Maybe we just don't have the horses, but you would think our coaches would have plugged this hole by now.

Aargh! bang
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2015 01:20AM by Swampy.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2015 09:16AM

toddlose
semsox
Al DeFlorio
Greenberg '97
And after yesterday's results, they no80.92% chance of receiving an at-large bid. So I guess that 100% from earlier in the week wasn't really 100%.
Wonder what it is after today's debacle. Three goals in three periods against a porous defense? With five returning players in the offensive end, two of whom are All-Americans, you'd think they'd have a consistent offense. Long scoring droughts are the norm this year. Offense is stagnant with little movement and seemingly little purpose much of the time. I'm not convinced about Kerwick. He's wasted a lot of senior talent this year.
Wonder where the team will get sent this year.
Might as well just get sent home.
You owe Semsox a drink for that perfect setup.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: semsox (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2015 02:54PM

Frankly, the team is just depressing given the talent on it. Much like 2013, this was supposed to be a year you circled as one to make a run in. Loaded to the brim with seniors and talent at every position. Remember coming into the year when faceoff was the biggest question mark? More than anything though, the lack of offensive production is truly staggering to me, and I have no idea what to make of it. Kerwick was coach last year too, right? In particular, Lintner is about 20 goals under what he scored last year, which makes sense, since of all people, Lintner's production is the most indicative of good offensive sets, since most of his goals are lay-ups off of cuts or nice passes. That movement is lacking this year. I've also commented on this a few times at laxpower, but in my mind Knight has been one of the most disappointing parts of the whole season. SV% is about 0.07 points lower than last year, which is a HUGE difference. He's already played about 100 more minutes than last year, and has about 20 less saves than he did last year. If he were playing the way he did last year, I have to think we'd have about 3 less losses and be in line for a homegame. Just a frustrating year so far.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2015 03:27PM

semsox
Kerwick was coach last year too, right?
There were signs of the offense's stagnation last year, too. Second half against Harvard. Last ten minutes against Hofstra when we went from 9-7 to 9-10. Scoreless fourth period of the Penn game in the Ivy tournament. Second half against Maryland in the NCAAs. Even the first half at Maryland wasn't so hot, with three goals coming unassisted from Donovan on his move from behind the cage.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: BearLover (---.wrls.harvard.edu)
Date: May 02, 2015 03:41PM

Somehow, Cornell still has the same 80.92% chance of an ALB: laxpower
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 02, 2015 05:51PM

BearLover
Somehow, Cornell still has the same 80.92% chance of an ALB: laxpower
Table shows Yale just ahead of us, Princeton just below the field of 16 (at 18) in probabilities which suggests we'd fare better if Yale beats Princeton. A Princeton win might make it a three-Ivy tournament. We do have the highest SOS (9) of any Ivy.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Johnny 5 (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 03, 2015 08:39AM

Perhaps the most telling moment in the game was the Princeton goal at the end of the first half.

At the onset of this season I had almost no confidence in any aspect of this team's play, except in net.
Boy, was I wrong.
It has seemed that the surest way for Cornell to win has been to not allow the opponent to shoot.
They shoot, they score.

Add that to the fact that we have a totally lackluster, predictable offense.......

I wish I could say wait until next year.

bang
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 03, 2015 10:45AM

Al DeFlorio
Greenberg '97
And after yesterday's results, they now have an 80.92% chance of receiving an at-large bid. So I guess that 100% from earlier in the week wasn't really 100%.
Wonder what it is after today's debacle. Three goals in three periods against a porous defense? With five returning players in the offensive end, two of whom are All-Americans, you'd think they'd have a consistent offense. Long scoring droughts are the norm this year. Offense is stagnant with little movement and seemingly little purpose much of the time. I'm not convinced about Kerwick. He's wasted a lot of senior talent this year.

Agree

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: kingpin248 (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 03, 2015 09:13PM

Not only does Cornell get a bid, but the no. 8 seed; the Big Red host Albany in the first game of the tournament at noon on Saturday.

 
___________________________
Matt Carberry
my blog | The Z-Ratings (KRACH for other sports)
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Chris '03 (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 03, 2015 09:38PM

kingpin248
Not only does Cornell get a bid, but the no. 8 seed; the Big Red host Albany in the first game of the tournament at noon on Saturday.

Cornell better relearn offense fast.

 
___________________________
"Mark Mazzoleni looks like a guy whose dog just died out there..."
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 03, 2015 09:49PM

Cornell teams that deserved a seed the last two years were not seeded, and this team, that looks lost recently, gets a seed.doh Frankly, I'd rather have gone to Maryland or Virginia than get Albany in Ithaca. I suppose it's nice the seniors get another home game, though.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Johnny 5 (---.syrcny.east.verizon.net)
Date: May 04, 2015 08:01AM

Chris '03
kingpin248
Not only does Cornell get a bid, but the no. 8 seed; the Big Red host Albany in the first game of the tournament at noon on Saturday.

Cornell better relearn offense fast.

And, 65th out of 68 in saves??
Somebody needs to re-string that hole in Knight's stick.

"He shoots, he scores!!!!"

help
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: jeff '84 (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 09, 2015 06:59AM

Cornell Greats Rank Thompson Among Best Ever

[laxmagazine.com]
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 08:28AM

2015 was the year of the missing children. Ben DeLuca was dismissed fall 2013, giving Class of 2018 recruits, this year's freshmen, time to commit elsewhere. IIRC, a couple times on broadcasts I heard that so-and-so new at, say, Notre Dame had planned on Cornell.

Cornell definitely underperformed the second half of the season. Does a school fire a new coach who steps in cold, wins two Ivy RS titles, makes the NCAAs both years, advances to quarterfinals last year and almost to the final four? There'd be a chilling effect on new coaching candidates. We could say, let's wait for the new recruiting class to be known. But a lot of Cornell's best players have been off the recruiting top-100 radar. We go into 2016 without five of our seven best players - seniors Buczek, Donovan, Stevens, Hogan, Lintner - so we'll win a lot of faceoffs and then hope Christian Knight rebounds.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2015 09:51AM by billhoward.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:02AM

billhoward
2015 was the year of the missing children. Ben DeLuca was dismissed fall 2013, giving Class of 2018 recruits, this year's freshmen, time to commit elsewhere. IIRC, a couple times on broadcasts I heard that so-and-so new at, say, Notre Dame had planned on Cornell.

Cornell definitely underperformed the second half of the season. Does a school fire a new coach who steps in cold, wins two Ivy RS titles, makes the NCAAs both years, advances to quarterfinals last year and almost to the final four? There'd be a chilling effect on new coaching candidates. We could say, let's wait for the new recruiting class to be known. But a lot of Cornell's best players have been off the recruiting top-100 radar. We go into 2016 without five of our seven best players - seniors Buczek, Donovan, Stevens, Hogan, Lintner - so we'll win a lot of faceoffs and then hope Christian Knight rebounds.

It's an interesting dilemma. I agree with many others that the coaching appeared less than stellar at times this year, especially down the stretch, and that we underperformed our talent level. This year's freshman class had no one make an immediate impact; as Bill mentioned, the top recruit, Mikey Wynne, had decommitted and is starting at attack for Notre Dame. Another top recruit, Logan Greco, also decommitted and is starting at defense for Virginia.

For those looking for the glass half full, next year's recruiting class may be our best since this year's senior class of Buczek, Donvan, et. al. Jake McCulloch, an attack/middie from Ward Melville, was just named an Under Armour All American. Attackman Colton Rupp, from Landon in D.C., is rated a top-40's recruit by Inside Lacrosse. There are lots of other promising kids including defenseman Tom Reilly, also from Ward Melville, Zach Ward, an attackman from Pennsylvania; Ryan Bray, another highly regarded attackman out of Long Island (and a former Ohio State commit); and Clark Peterson, a middie out of the Hill Academy in Canada. The 2016 class looks just as strong, featuring attackman Jeff Teat, who's one of the most highly regarded players in the junior class.

But next year could be very ugly. We'll win a lot of faceoffs, but who knows who will be able to score. Expect lots of freshmen to be getting trial under fire.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Towerroad (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:07AM

billhoward
2015 was the year of the missing children. Ben DeLuca was dismissed fall 2013, giving Class of 2018 recruits, this year's freshmen, time to commit elsewhere. IIRC, a couple times on broadcasts I heard that so-and-so new at, say, Notre Dame had planned on Cornell.

Cornell definitely underperformed the second half of the season. Does a school fire a new coach who steps in cold, wins two Ivy RS titles, makes the NCAAs both years, advances to quarterfinals last year and almost to the final four? There'd be a chilling effect on new coaching candidates. We could say, let's wait for the new recruiting class to be known. But a lot of Cornell's best players have been off the recruiting top-100 radar. We go into 2016 without five of our seven best players - seniors Buczek, Donovan, Stevens, Hogan, Lintner - so we'll win a lot of faceoffs and then hope Christian Knight rebounds.

Good analysis. The DeLuca debacle, justified or not, hurt the program badly. I think it has been on autopilot since. I don't think we have the right coach. Our terrible offense, with skilled, senior rich talent closed that deal for me. So, I think we bite the bullet and find someone that can build a new program. It will take a while.

The AD could get on his hands and knees and crawl 90 miles to the South and beg Jeff Tambroni and his wife to return. But, I suspect that he would rather see the program suffer than admit his mistake. Besides that, he will be too busy preparing his next video.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:44AM

billhoward
Cornell definitely underperformed the second half of the season. Does a school fire a new coach who steps in cold, wins two Ivy RS titles, makes the NCAAs both years, advances to quarterfinals last year and almost to the final four?
Not that it matters much, but Cornell did not advance to the NCAA quarterfinals last year, losing to Maryland in the first round on a last-second goal assisted by one of DeLuca's lost children, Henry West, who, IIRC, scored Maryland's game-winning goal against Yale yesterday.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:47AM

So 2016 could be a rebuilding year. But the freshmen who get more playing time will be awesome the three years after that. Maybe Matt Kerwick can learn and grow further into his position.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:50AM

You're right, Al. I was thinking back to the two games we played at Maryland the year before (2013), both wins (Terps then Ohio State), before falling to Duke in the semifinals.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Towerroad (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:57AM

billhoward
So 2016 could be a rebuilding year. But the freshmen who get more playing time will be awesome the three years after that. Maybe Matt Kerwick can learn and grow further into his position.

This is, or was, one of the preeminant programs in the country. This is not a program where the coach learns now to coach on the job. It is a program where a proven coach takes things to the next level. Kerwick has failed at this. If you are interested in mediocracy you have found your man.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2015 10:04AM by Towerroad.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 12:52PM

Towerroad
This is, or was, one of the preeminant programs in the country. This is not a program where the coach learns now to coach on the job. It is a program where a proven coach takes things to the next level. Kerwick has failed at this. If you are interested in mediocracy you have found your man.
The majority of the past half-century, Cornell has not hired someone else's proven head coach. Ned Harkness came to Cornell with college head coaching experience in lacrosse (and hockey). From then on, there was a lot of learning on the job. Richie Moran (1969-1997) had only HS and club team coaching experience. Dave Pietramala (Cornell 1998-2000) came to Cornell after five HS and college assistant coaching positions. Jeff Tambroni (2001-2010) came to Cornell's head coaching position after three assistant positions including Cornell. Ben DeLuca (2011-2013) was an assistant (twice) at Cornell before becoming head coach. Matt Kerwick (2014-2015) had more than a decade of head coaching experience plus assistant experiences at several schools including Penn and Georgetown.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: May 10, 2015 03:50PM

billhoward
Towerroad
This is, or was, one of the preeminant programs in the country. This is not a program where the coach learns now to coach on the job. It is a program where a proven coach takes things to the next level. Kerwick has failed at this. If you are interested in mediocracy you have found your man.
The majority of the past half-century, Cornell has not hired someone else's proven head coach. Ned Harkness came to Cornell with college head coaching experience in lacrosse (and hockey). From then on, there was a lot of learning on the job. Richie Moran (1969-1997) had only HS and club team coaching experience. Dave Pietramala (Cornell 1998-2000) came to Cornell after five HS and college assistant coaching positions. Jeff Tambroni (2001-2010) came to Cornell's head coaching position after three assistant positions including Cornell. Ben DeLuca (2011-2013) was an assistant (twice) at Cornell before becoming head coach. Matt Kerwick (2014-2015) had more than a decade of head coaching experience plus assistant experiences at several schools including Penn and Georgetown.

Thanks, someone needed to stop all the boo birds with incorrect data. This was a terrible second half of a season, but if he really can recruit and then coach his own talent, maybe he'll show true head coaching ability. I certainly don't know, but I do know we don't have enough data to properly judge him. Therefore I think he deserves time to succeed. People loved Pietramala, but how successful has he ended up being at JHU? Since 2008 he's never won more than 1 NCAA game/season. Then look at Tambroni's 5 year PSU record, 40-33 and a total of 1 NCAA apperance. Do I wish we could get back to lacrosse glory, hell yes, but before we say the coach must go, how about trying to say who would be better.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: CU77 (---.sb.sd.cox.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 05:01PM

Good to see actual facts posted here. Bottom line, Cornell is not going to go out and hire a proven head coach away from some other school. And even if they try, it doesn't always work well. See Sowell at Navy (reportedly the highest-paid coach in DI). Cassese of Lehigh was reported to be a candidate (along with Kerwick) last year for the Cornell job. I think that would not have worked well and was against it, but who knows?? Very very hard to get this right, IMO.

Also, calling Henry West one of "DeLuca's lost children", as if he was a recruit who decided to decommit because DeLuca was gone, is totally backward. The Wests (Henry and brother Andrew) were not happy with DeLuca. Andrew left the team (eventually graduating from Cornell) and Henry decamped for Maryland while DeLuca was still the head coach.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 05:18PM

Jeff Tambroni has not found Cornell-like success in Happy Valley: 40-33 overall, high water mark in 2013, one NCAA tournament.
2011    7-7
2012    9-6
2013   12-5
2014    7-6
2015    5-9
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 05:26PM

CU77

Also, calling Henry West one of "DeLuca's lost children", as if he was a recruit who decided to decommit because DeLuca was gone, is totally backward. The Wests (Henry and brother Andrew) were not happy with DeLuca. Andrew left the team (eventually graduating from Cornell) and Henry decamped for Maryland while DeLuca was still the head coach.
That's exactly what I wrote ["one of DeLuca's lost children"], and it's not "backward" at all. I wrote nothing about his decommitting because DeLuca was gone.

DeLuca "lost" the Wests, not DeLuca's firing. I'm tired of all this lionizing of DeLuca. He recruited poorly as a head coach and lost a lot of sons and brothers of Cornell lacrosse alums. His 2013 team had a very undersized roster as a result.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2015 05:30PM by Al DeFlorio.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: CU77 (---.sb.sd.cox.net)
Date: May 10, 2015 09:47PM

Sorry, I thought you were agreeing with billhoward and towerroad, who were talking about recruits decommiting due to DeLuca's firing.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - post mortem
Posted by: Towerroad (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 11, 2015 07:28AM

billhoward
Jeff Tambroni has not found Cornell-like success in Happy Valley: 40-33 overall, high water mark in 2013, one NCAA tournament.
2011    7-7
2012    9-6
2013   12-5
2014    7-6
2015    5-9
Does that suggest that you would not like to see him return to Cornell?
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: CU77 (---.physics.ucsb.edu)
Date: May 11, 2015 02:39PM

First of all, Tambroni is not ever returning to Cornell. Why would he leave PSU, which will let him stay until he retires as long as the results are not truly miserable, to return to a school that has many more restrictions on recruiting, and that fired his hand-picked successor a few years later, just after he'd gotten the team to the Final Four? None of us on the outside know what happened there, but I'm sure Tambroni is well aware of DeLuca's version of events, and that that version doesn't make Cornell look good.

Then, it's not at all clear how good a coach Tambroni is. The PSU results are certainly disappointing. Maybe he just got lucky at Cornell. He did have two all-time great players in Seibald and Pannell, whom he recruited. Hasn't done anything remotely close at PSU. Why not? Impossible to say.

The bottom line is that it's very very hard to judge coaching talent, IMO. It's a combination of recruiting and coaching, talent in picking assistants, and all done in a particular environment (each school) that strongly influences the results. I've already mentioned Navy. How about Princeton? Would you fire Bates? Princeton believed he was the best guy they could get at the time, but the results since are also disappointing.

Kerwick can't be fairly judged until he has a few years of recruiting, and can't be fired unless there are several years of awful results (eg, last in the Ivies) without poisoning the well of coaches who might consider coming to Cornell.

I think Kerwick may well work out fine. I'm not sure what the problems this year were (especially on offense), but only if they persist year after year can we assign a lot blame to the head coach.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Towerroad (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: May 11, 2015 03:32PM

CU77
First of all, Tambroni is not ever returning to Cornell. Why would he leave PSU, which will let him stay until he retires as long as the results are not truly miserable, to return to a school that has many more restrictions on recruiting, and that fired his hand-picked successor a few years later, just after he'd gotten the team to the Final Four? None of us on the outside know what happened there, but I'm sure Tambroni is well aware of DeLuca's version of events, and that that version doesn't make Cornell look good.

Then, it's not at all clear how good a coach Tambroni is. The PSU results are certainly disappointing. Maybe he just got lucky at Cornell. He did have two all-time great players in Seibald and Pannell, whom he recruited. Hasn't done anything remotely close at PSU. Why not? Impossible to say.

The bottom line is that it's very very hard to judge coaching talent, IMO. It's a combination of recruiting and coaching, talent in picking assistants, and all done in a particular environment (each school) that strongly influences the results. I've already mentioned Navy. How about Princeton? Would you fire Bates? Princeton believed he was the best guy they could get at the time, but the results since are also disappointing.

Kerwick can't be fairly judged until he has a few years of recruiting, and can't be fired unless there are several years of awful results (eg, last in the Ivies) without poisoning the well of coaches who might consider coming to Cornell.

I think Kerwick may well work out fine. I'm not sure what the problems this year were (especially on offense), but only if they persist year after year can we assign a lot blame to the head coach.

I agree with you Tambroni is not coming back. But the arguement that Kerwick needs to recruit and then we should wait to see what he does with the recruits does not deal with the central issue. So far, he had not demonstrated that he can do anything with players once they arrive on campus.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: rss77 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: May 11, 2015 07:14PM

Agreed. Let's see what kind of recruiter Kerwick is. I would like to see a stronger second offensive midfield line. I think perhaps the first line was run into the ground because they were out there for 90% of possessions and that does not translate well into tourney success either in the Ivies or the NCAAs.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (204.27.156.---)
Date: May 12, 2015 12:17PM

Clearly our lack of depth all around hurt this team.

To compete at the elite levels you need one of two things: an absolute superstar scorer (see Pannell, Rob) or a crap-load of depth. Preferably both. Buczek is very good but he's not a superstar. And even the ESPN announcers said that the role of our second midfield was simply to "hold on." That's not good enough if you don't have a superstar scorer.

They also pointed out that Albany had more players to sub in and out than we did. So is it likely that our guys were more burned out by the end of the season than other schools with more depth? It's certainly a theory as to why we did well in the beginning of the year and tail off towards the end, including losing to teams in the Ivy tourney that we previously beat.

Now, is part of the issue that Kerwick inherited deLuca's ineffective recruiting? Yes. Add to that the recruiting confusion associated with the abrupt coaching change and the "interim" label and you have a depth problem. So we need to see whether he can improve on that with time.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Tom Lento (199.201.64.---)
Date: May 12, 2015 03:16PM

Towerroad
CU77
First of all, Tambroni is not ever returning to Cornell. Why would he leave PSU, which will let him stay until he retires as long as the results are not truly miserable, to return to a school that has many more restrictions on recruiting, and that fired his hand-picked successor a few years later, just after he'd gotten the team to the Final Four? None of us on the outside know what happened there, but I'm sure Tambroni is well aware of DeLuca's version of events, and that that version doesn't make Cornell look good.

Then, it's not at all clear how good a coach Tambroni is. The PSU results are certainly disappointing. Maybe he just got lucky at Cornell. He did have two all-time great players in Seibald and Pannell, whom he recruited. Hasn't done anything remotely close at PSU. Why not? Impossible to say.

The bottom line is that it's very very hard to judge coaching talent, IMO. It's a combination of recruiting and coaching, talent in picking assistants, and all done in a particular environment (each school) that strongly influences the results. I've already mentioned Navy. How about Princeton? Would you fire Bates? Princeton believed he was the best guy they could get at the time, but the results since are also disappointing.

Kerwick can't be fairly judged until he has a few years of recruiting, and can't be fired unless there are several years of awful results (eg, last in the Ivies) without poisoning the well of coaches who might consider coming to Cornell.

I think Kerwick may well work out fine. I'm not sure what the problems this year were (especially on offense), but only if they persist year after year can we assign a lot blame to the head coach.

I agree with you Tambroni is not coming back. But the arguement that Kerwick needs to recruit and then we should wait to see what he does with the recruits does not deal with the central issue. So far, he had not demonstrated that he can do anything with players once they arrive on campus.

Your fan perspective approach of firing winning coaches at the first sign that they aren't winning quite enough to meet your lofty standards would quickly make you the worst AD in the history of college athletics. Who would want to work under those conditions?

You could be right that Kerwick is the wrong guy for the job - there's at least one other person around these parts who has been saying as much since he was named to the position - but given that he's been hired as the full time head coach you need to give him one or two more seasons to settle the question of whether this is his problem, a problem he inherited, or just an unfortunate mismatch between his preferred system and the skills of the players he inherited. Unless you're actually in practice or somehow connected to the team it's very difficult to distinguish between these possibilities based solely on on-field performance.

For reference, the University of Michigan did not fire *either* of its last two head football coaches after 2 seasons. Look at the records - particularly for Rich Rodriguez - and you'll see they're substantially uglier than what you're seeing with Kerwick. This is especially true in the context of a program like Michigan Football, which was apparently 2 seasons off of a Rose Bowl win when Rodriguez took over.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: TimV (---.amc.edu)
Date: May 12, 2015 04:34PM

CU77
First of all, Tambroni is not ever returning to Cornell.

Absolutely true. He's seen us nekkid. He knows where the warts are. Not to mention the salary structure.

CU77
Hasn't done anything remotely close at PSU. Why not? Impossible to say.

No it isn't: Maryland, Johns Hopkins in 2015, 15-2 Loyola in 2014, along with losses to Denver and Notre Dame. To some extent the post Paterno turmoil. He went to a university with thin lacrosse tradition, if any, and without the major alumni support he enjoyed at Cornell. I'm much warmer on his chances to be successful at PSU than Coach Kerwick's at Cornell based on how the last two seasons have gone.

CU77
Kerwick can't be fairly judged until he has a few years of recruiting, and can't be fired unless there are several years of awful results (eg, last in the Ivies) without poisoning the well of coaches who might consider coming to Cornell.

Gawd! I hope you're not saying he has to turn us into Dartmouth before we can make a change. It takes a long time to build the recruiting cred we have now - and that can be gone awfully fast. I agree that it would be unfair to fire him now, but my threshold would be 3rd or worse in the Ivies for 2 seasons.

 
___________________________
"Yo Paulie - I don't see no crowd gathering 'round you neither."
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: CU77 (---.sb.sd.cox.net)
Date: May 12, 2015 10:02PM

So you're going to fire a coach for finishing 3rd in a 7-team league for two years? That's hilarious!

I sure hope you can be head coach, because absolutely no one else who is any good at all would take the job under those circumstances. Every candidate will demand at least a five-year contract.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Swampy (---.static.optonline.net)
Date: May 13, 2015 04:28AM

TimV

CU77
Hasn't done anything remotely close at PSU. Why not? Impossible to say.

No it isn't: Maryland, Johns Hopkins in 2015, 15-2 Loyola in 2014, along with losses to Denver and Notre Dame. To some extent the post Paterno turmoil. He went to a university with thin lacrosse tradition, if any, and without the major alumni support he enjoyed at Cornell. I'm much warmer on his chances to be successful at PSU than Coach Kerwick's at Cornell based on how the last two seasons have gone.

So how's Bill Tierney doing at Denver?

CU77
Kerwick can't be fairly judged until he has a few years of recruiting, and can't be fired unless there are several years of awful results (eg, last in the Ivies) without poisoning the well of coaches who might consider coming to Cornell.

But Kerwick continues a troubling thread going back to Tamboroni at least. This is an over-reliance on starters and a corresponding failure to develop other players during the course of a season.

I agree: a new coach should get the chance to recruit players who fit his system. And Kerwick seems to be doing a good job recruiting. But a truly great coach gets the players he's inherited to play above expectations. (Cf. e.g., one N. Harkness.) We've had two seasons in a row with late-season dives. The starters are being run into the ground, and the rest of the team isn't being developed to carry its share of the load. Hopefully this changes. Do you think it will?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2015 04:42AM by Swampy.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: CU77 (---.physics.ucsb.edu)
Date: May 13, 2015 08:16PM

You're right, Tambroni and DeLuca and Kerwick all relied heavily on one starters. After three different coaches have done it, I have to start wondering if they know something that we don't. Maybe they think the starters need all that playing time to have a chance to compete with the top programs. Maybe they think the dropoff in talent further down the roster is too great a risk. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the coaches know about this issue and that they have their reasons.

You are right about truly great coaches. There are very few of these, and no good evidence that Tambroni or DeLuca or Kerwick is one of them. But the chances that Cornell could hire one are also very small. Cornell got lucky with Harkness and Moran and Pietramala, who were definitely not proven names when hired. Same is true with Princeton's hiring of Tierney. His replacement Bates, though, seems to be in the "not great" category along with so many others. Or did Princeton tighten up previously loose admissions policies that benefitted Tierney (as has been claimed by some)? His last years at Princeton were not great either. (And it always brings a smile to my face to remember that Tierney's last game as coach of Princeton was a loss at home in the NCAA quarterfinals to Cornell.)
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 13, 2015 11:53PM

CU77
You're right, Tambroni and DeLuca and Kerwick all relied heavily on one starters. After three different coaches have done it, I have to start wondering if they know something that we don't. Maybe they think the starters need all that playing time to have a chance to compete with the top programs. Maybe they think the dropoff in talent further down the roster is too great a risk. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that the coaches know about this issue and that they have their reasons.

You are right about truly great coaches. There are very few of these, and no good evidence that Tambroni or DeLuca or Kerwick is one of them. But the chances that Cornell could hire one are also very small. Cornell got lucky with Harkness and Moran and Pietramala, who were definitely not proven names when hired. Same is true with Princeton's hiring of Tierney. His replacement Bates, though, seems to be in the "not great" category along with so many others. Or did Princeton tighten up previously loose admissions policies that benefitted Tierney (as has been claimed by some)? His last years at Princeton were not great either. (And it always brings a smile to my face to remember that Tierney's last game as coach of Princeton was a loss at home in the NCAA quarterfinals to Cornell.)

One point I'd make in response is that since Tambroni our "rebuilding" years have been more like "reloading" years. This implies to me that the talent is there. For example, Connor Buczek hardly played his freshman year. The trick is to bring that talent along faster in order to develop depth by the end of the season while still winning enough games to get an at-large bid should we not win the ILT. (Something that we've done regularly.) I think losing one regular season game in return for having depth on Memorial Day is a good tradeoff. Two or three, not so much. But I couldn't help but notice the freshmen who contributed to Princeton and Albany.

Another point is that the past two years under Kerwick the team has had a late-season swoon. This is new and a real problem. The losses at the end of the 2015 season would be easier to swallow if we had been playing our best lacrosse at the end of the season. We weren't. Not even close.

The only luck Cornell had in hiring Harkness was being able to hire him. He was a proven winner, with one hockey NC already under his belt. We also had the excellent luck of being closer to Canada than RPI is (as he said in the Sports Illustrated article).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2015 12:06AM by Swampy.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: CU77 (---.sb.sd.cox.net)
Date: May 15, 2015 12:03AM

Cornell swooned in 2012 under DeLuca. We beat Syracuse in mid-April 12-6, and had only one loss, by 8-9 to Virginia. Then: lost to Brown (who finished the season 7-8), lost to Princeton, lost to Yale in the first ILT game. Connor Buczek was a freshman, had almost no playing time. Looked fantastic when he got on the field against Yale for a few minutes after it was too late.

So a late swoon is not something that's new with Kerwick.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.syrcny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 23, 2015 07:43AM

Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 24, 2015 12:03AM

Jim Hyla
Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

Kudos to all four, especially Buczek for AA & CLASS. But can this quote in the article about the CLASS award possibly be right?
Cornell Athletics Department
[Buczek] was also accepted into Cornell's prestigious Johnson Graduate School of Management as one of only two individuals to be admitted directly into the school from undergraduate studies.

If I read this correctly, it implies that out of all applicants to Johnson only 2 were accepted fresh out of undergraduate school. All the rest had several years of work experience, were in the military, etc. Hard to believe.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Robb (---.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 24, 2015 02:36AM

Swampy
Jim Hyla
Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

Kudos to all four, especially Buczek for AA & CLASS. But can this quote in the article about the CLASS award possibly be right?
Cornell Athletics Department
[Buczek] was also accepted into Cornell's prestigious Johnson Graduate School of Management as one of only two individuals to be admitted directly into the school from undergraduate studies.

If I read this correctly, it implies that out of all applicants to Johnson only 2 were accepted fresh out of undergraduate school. All the rest had several years of work experience, were in the military, etc. Hard to believe.
Don't have any info on Johnson specifically, but B-schools are definitely expecting more and more applicants to have work experience before applying. Winning the CLASS award certainly indicates that Buczek has "extenuating circumstances" (the good kind) that would make him the exception to the rule.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Robb (---.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 24, 2015 02:37AM

Robb
Swampy
Jim Hyla
Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

Kudos to all four, especially Buczek for AA & CLASS. But can this quote in the article about the CLASS award possibly be right?
Cornell Athletics Department
[Buczek] was also accepted into Cornell's prestigious Johnson Graduate School of Management as one of only two individuals to be admitted directly into the school from undergraduate studies.

If I read this correctly, it implies that out of all applicants to Johnson only 2 were accepted fresh out of undergraduate school. All the rest had several years of work experience, were in the military, etc. Hard to believe.
Don't have any info on Johnson specifically, but B-schools are definitely expecting more and more applicants to have work experience before applying. Winning the CLASS award certainly indicates that Buczek has "extenuating circumstances" (the good kind) that could make him the exception to the rule.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: dag14 (---.ag.cornell.edu)
Date: May 24, 2015 11:41AM

I don't know this for a fact but it is quite possible the CLASS story is slightly incorrect. Rather than being only 1 of 2 undergrads accepted, Connor may be 1 or 2 Cornell undergrads admitted to the next class. That makes more sense.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: May 24, 2015 06:46PM

Robb
Swampy
Jim Hyla
Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

Kudos to all four, especially Buczek for AA & CLASS. But can this quote in the article about the CLASS award possibly be right?
Cornell Athletics Department
[Buczek] was also accepted into Cornell's prestigious Johnson Graduate School of Management as one of only two individuals to be admitted directly into the school from undergraduate studies.

If I read this correctly, it implies that out of all applicants to Johnson only 2 were accepted fresh out of undergraduate school. All the rest had several years of work experience, were in the military, etc. Hard to believe.
Don't have any info on Johnson specifically, but B-schools are definitely expecting more and more applicants to have work experience before applying. Winning the CLASS award certainly indicates that Buczek has "extenuating circumstances" (the good kind) that would make him the exception to the rule.
From the Johnson web site, in the 2-year program the Class of 2016 had an average of 4.7 years of work experience. There's no hint of the distribution. Of those looking for work, 90% of graduates in the Class of 2014 had a job within 3 months of graduation, commanding an average salary of $110,900 plus an average signing bonus of $27,500. The latter data suggests to me that experience is common.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Tom Lento (199.201.64.---)
Date: May 26, 2015 01:22PM

David Harding
Robb
Swampy
Jim Hyla
Okay, our season is over, but there is still news. The question is will anyone read this?

Four lacrosse players are AAs. Buczek, Stevens, Donovan, and Cook were named AA, while Buczek won the Senior CLASS Award for lacrosse.

Kudos to all four, especially Buczek for AA & CLASS. But can this quote in the article about the CLASS award possibly be right?
Cornell Athletics Department
[Buczek] was also accepted into Cornell's prestigious Johnson Graduate School of Management as one of only two individuals to be admitted directly into the school from undergraduate studies.

If I read this correctly, it implies that out of all applicants to Johnson only 2 were accepted fresh out of undergraduate school. All the rest had several years of work experience, were in the military, etc. Hard to believe.
Don't have any info on Johnson specifically, but B-schools are definitely expecting more and more applicants to have work experience before applying. Winning the CLASS award certainly indicates that Buczek has "extenuating circumstances" (the good kind) that would make him the exception to the rule.
From the Johnson web site, in the 2-year program the Class of 2016 had an average of 4.7 years of work experience. There's no hint of the distribution. Of those looking for work, 90% of graduates in the Class of 2014 had a job within 3 months of graduation, commanding an average salary of $110,900 plus an average signing bonus of $27,500. The latter data suggests to me that experience is common.

I suspect the article is referring to the 5 year MBA program (4 years undergrad + 1 year MBA), which admits a "handful" of students each year. All of them will be Cornell undergrads, and a member of the Lax team winning the CLASS award would certainly show the leadership potential needed to win one of these slots in the MBA program. My understanding is top business schools don't accept undergrads as a matter of course, and only really do so via special programs like Cornell's 5-year MBA. It would not surprise me if there were 2 Cornell undergrads admitted through the 5 year MBA and 0 direct college graduates accepted through the standard admissions process.

Even if this was standard admissions, 2 kids getting in straight out of undergrad is pretty reasonable. The Johnson School admits a few hundred applicants each year, and I read somewhere that 10% of them are Cornell alums, so if you do random allotment around an average of ~1% of accepted students coming straight from undergrad, 1 out of 2 coming from Cornell would be somewhat unlikely but not terribly surprising.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2015 01:24PM by Tom Lento.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: May 26, 2015 03:58PM

Swampy

The only luck Cornell had in hiring Harkness was being able to hire him. He was a proven winner, with one hockey NC already under his belt.
jHarkness also had the 1952 USILA national lacrosse championship under his belt while at RPI, as co-winners with Virginia. His 1948 RPI team was invited to London to play the British All-Stars in an exhibition game at Wembley Stadium as part of the Olympics. Ned came to Cornell with a pretty solid lacrosse resume.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: dag14 (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: May 27, 2015 11:30AM

Connor was not admitted to the 5 year program; he is doing the "regular" 2 year MBA track.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Tom Lento (199.201.64.---)
Date: May 27, 2015 04:15PM

dag14
Connor was not admitted to the 5 year program; he is doing the "regular" 2 year MBA track.

Interesting. Good for him - from everything I've heard gaining admission to a top MBA program straight out of undergrad is a rare feat.
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: CAS (---.87.209.88.static.monaco.mc)
Date: June 03, 2015 12:41PM

Ben DeLuca to join Harvard coaching staff. Discuss amongst yourselves
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: scoop85 (---.nyc.biz.rr.com)
Date: June 03, 2015 01:35PM

CAS
Ben DeLuca to join Harvard coaching staff. Discuss amongst yourselves

As the great George Costanza once said (and I paraphrase), "they're sticking it to us Jerry, I tell you sticking it to us!"
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015
Posted by: Johnny 5 (209.68.90.---)
Date: June 04, 2015 01:30PM

scoop85
CAS
Ben DeLuca to join Harvard coaching staff. Discuss amongst yourselves

As the great George Costanza once said (and I paraphrase), "they're sticking it to us Jerry, I tell you sticking it to us!"

And yet, we gave him the door....for reasons that were never explained, and must never be mentioned (God forbid) upon fear of excommunication.
Interesting.

help
 
Re: Cornell Men's Lacrosse 2015 - Matt Donovan in pros 2016
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrk.east.verizon.net)
Date: July 21, 2016 02:16PM

Profile of Matt Donovan '15, now with the Chesapeake Bayhawks

[www.capitalgazette.com]

Coach Brian Reese
"Matt is the type of player who makes everyone around him better. I think Matt is a really underrated dodger, but he's also very good at getting open off-ball."
 
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