Hopkins looking for a conference, now found.

[laxmagazine.com]


There was speculation Hopkins would be joining the Big Ten as a lacrosse only member. Big Ten wants the 2.6 billion dollar endowment and research university.





Johns Hopkins to Pursue Conference Affiliation for Men's Lacrosse
by Corey McLaughlin | LaxMagazine.com | Twitter | Related: Full Committee Report


Johns Hopkins announced Friday it will seek a conference affiliation in men's lacrosse.
updated 05.17.2013 at 2.51 p.m.

The Notre Dame of college lacrosse is looking for a conference home.

Johns Hopkins University President Ronald J. Daniels announced as much Friday in a letter to the university comminuty. The Blue Jays' independent Division I men's lacrosse program will pursue a conference affiliation.

In a 10-page report from The Blue Ribbon Committee to Study Conference Alignment for the Men's Lacrosse Team dated May 10, the decision is described as a move that "could well represent the single greatest change in Johns Hopkins men's lacrosse in more than a century."

The announcement comes a little more than two months since Daniels appointed a special seven-member committee to study conference alignment, and less than two weeks after Johns Hopkins' NCAA tournament fate this season was officially sealed — missing the tournament for the first time in 41 years.

"The important thing for us is to win a national championship and how do you do that?" Johns Hopkins athletic director Tom Calder said during a media conference call on Friday. "You give yourself two options: play a strong schedule... and another would be to play in a conference championship. We wanted a second chance to get into the NCAAs."

The committee — co-chaired by Johns Hopkins alumni Jerry Schnydman ('67) and Chris Watson ('05) and including Chuck Clarvit ('78), David Cordish ('60, '69 (MLA)), Tristan Davies ('87), Mary Ann McGuire Dickson ('97) and Alan Fish — unanimously recommended to seek a conference membership, with four criteria that would be important in any agreement:

1) An initial membership term of five years

2) An opportunity to evaluate Johns Hopkins' position in the conference after three years, at which point the option would exist to either extend the initial agreement or to part ways at the conclusion of the initial agreement

3) A guarantee that a decision by an existing full member of the conference to sponsor the sport of men's lacrosse or the addition to the conference of a full member that sponsors men's lacrosse will not jeopardize Johns Hopkins' affiliation with the league

4) The ability for Johns Hopkins to maintain its existing television broadcasting relationship with ESPNU

Calder and men's head coach Dave Pietramala were also active with the committee, participating in several meetings with its members. Both addressed members of the media in a conference call Friday afternoon.

Pietramala said that ideally the Blue Jays would be in a conference by the spring 2015 season. He also said "several" conferences have reached out about their interest, but he did not delve into specifics. Both mentioned the importance of continuing the Blue Jays' relationship with ESPN and Calder said the school just signed a new four-year conract with the broadcaster.

This announcement only means that Johns Hopkins is seeking a conference, not that it has recieved a formal invitation to join one. As for possible destinations, three men’s leagues — the ACC, Big East and a potential Big Ten — each need one more school to earn or keep NCAA automatic qualifying berth status in the future.

"In the state of athletics and that lacrosse is in, this was the best decision to secure the future of Hopkins lacrosse and put this program in a position where we can continue what we've done for 130 years, which is to compete for the national championships," Pietramala said.

At the same time, with Maryland and Rutgers heading to the Big Ten in 2014-15, the conference has been in discussions with women's coaches at Big Ten programs about a future league, according to sources, and an official announcement could come early this summer. Six Big Ten schools will have women's programs by the spring 2015 season, and thus be eligible to form a league with NCAA AQ status.

However, the Johns Hopkins committee report released Friday applies only to the men's program. The women's program has previously announced its leaving the ALC to become independent in 2014, and those plans have not changed.

Calder said if the opportunity came for the women's program to align with a conference, "then fine, but we're not ready go into finding a conference for the women."

Also of note: the report states that the Johns Hopkins athletic department says "it has every desire to maintain traditional rivalries with institutions such as Maryland, Syracuse, Virginia, Navy, North Carolina and Loyola. These are not only meaningful rivalries, they are excellent lacrosse programs. Continuing to play against them is not only important to JHU lacrosse fans, it would help Johns Hopkins maximize its own strength of schedule."

Johns Hopkins has played as an independent for the entire 130-year history of the men's program, and Pietramala said the program always has the option of remaining with that status. But for all of the effort and circumstances surrounding Friday's annoucement, it seems that it's conference-or-bust for the Blue Jays.


"It's a monumental decision," Pietramala said. "The next decision is equally as big because you want to continue to move in a positive direction and find the right place. We’ll now continue to do our homework."

Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

Towerroad
Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

that would be one way to improve the sos part of the schedule.

Towerroad
Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

And their official colors are Columbia blue and black. Not sure how well Bluejays get along with Lions, Tigers, Bulldogs and Bears, however.

Towerroad
Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

I think not: [www.hopkinssports.com]

Towerroad
Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

I would hope not. We don't need to get into the revolving, go here, form that, all for the idea of money and glory. I can understand JHU's position and tradition, but the Ivies don't need it, or them. The ACC or Big Ten would be interesting.

Jim Hyla

Towerroad
Academically I think they would qualify as an Ivy. Any thoughts?

I would hope not. We don't need to get into the revolving, go here, form that, all for the idea of money and glory. I can understand JHU's position and tradition, but the Ivies don't need it, or them. The ACC or Big Ten would be interesting.

Given how loosey-goosey the ACC is with membership in specific sports and the fact that 4 members would probably want to add a legitimate #5 who is also a legendary power in the sport to expand the field, that seems like a good fit, for that reason and geographically.

Also of note, Cornell is adding lacrosse for 14-15.

I heard the Ivy league considered offering membership to Hopkins but were afraid they might turn them down like Colgate did.

It seems almost incomprehensible to me that they would wind up anywhere other than the ACC.

Hopkins offers 12 men's sports and 11 women's - all but lacrosse at D3. Most Ivies are around 15 men's and 16 women's. Hopkins would bring *nothing* to Ivy League sports except for lacrosse, and it's not clear why they would get any better if they stopped offering scholarships.

The Ivies lose enormously the moment they change their membership. The Mystique is much (most?) of the actual monetary value of the Ivies. For at least a couple (and perhaps as many as 5) of the members, an unreflective acceptance of the current membership, without actually exploring whether there is anything of substance behind it, is vitally important.

Trotsky
The Ivies lose enormously the moment they change their membership. The Mystique is much (most?) of the actual monetary value of the Ivies. For at least a couple (and perhaps as many as 5) of the members, an unreflective acceptance of the current membership, without actually exploring whether there is anything of substance behind it, is vitally important.

Hmmm...Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and which two others....?

The Big Ten wants Hopkins for Lacrosse. They get a Big Ten lacrosse league and an NCAA automatic qualifier with the addition. The Big Ten gets a university that is an AAU accredited member which offsets the fact Nebraska lost thier accredidation the year after they joined, not every president wanted Nebraska in the Big Ten, This may be a way of getting Nebraska's attention to clean up thier act. And Hopkins will become a member of the Committee on Institutional Cooperation which is not something the ACC can compete with. I think the scholarship issue is why they will not be joining the ivies.

The Ivies that have a policy that no student graduates owing the school money do not consider this practice a scholorship. I have heard at Princeton they suggest to you before you graduate you start giving a percentage of your income back to the school the first year you are out.

Hopkins wants to keep playing traditional rivals and more of them are in the ACC. Somehow Hopkins in a conference with "Big" in the name seems off. The Ivies aren't keen on having a non-Ivy - what's the advantage? We've already got enough teams for an auto-bid conference and adding Hopkins means some years Cornell, Princeton or Yale would lose out to Hopkins. It would be different if this was a super-conference that was half-Ivy and half-good schools like ECAC hockey. so it sounds as if this is going to be ACC or Big Ten for the Jays.

Well, they've already got the color, so just secretly replace "Hopkins" on the jersey with "Columbia" and it might make sense.

Their cover might be blown when they actually win something, however.

[insidelacrosse.com]

Johns Hopkins will announce on Monday its intent to join the Big Ten in men's and women's lacrosse. (Inside Lacrosse Photo by Mark LeRoux)
Text SizeEmailPrint
Multiple sources have told Inside Lacrosse that Johns Hopkins will on Monday announce its intentions to join the Big Ten as an affiliate member in men's and women's lacrosse. By extension, the announcement keys the formation of Big Ten men's and women's lacrosse as league-sponsored sports for the first time.


The announcement will bring to fruition a several-month process to find a conference home for JHU's men's lacrosse program, which has played as an independent for 130 years. The Big Ten emerged as a target for the Blue Jays after Maryland and Rutgers announced their departure from the ACC and Big East, respectively, and intentions to join the Big Ten. That would make five men's lacrosse programs along with Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan, one short of the required six for an automatic qualifier to the NCAA Tournament.

While many specifics of the membership remain unclear, a source believed that the women's team would join a newly formed Big Ten in 2014 (which would include Penn State, Ohio State, Northwestern and Michigan, who will be playing their first varsity season) and the men's team will join in 2015, which would coincide with Maryland and Rutgers' arrival.

The news comes less than a week after Denver shook up the men's lacrosse conference landscape by announcing its move from the ECAC to the Big East, a story Inside Lacrosse broke first on Wednesday.

The Blue Jays, who missed the NCAA Tournament for the first time since 1971 this season, announced on May 17 that they'd be seeking conference affiliation. Conversely, Big Ten Lacrosse has been on the minds of at least Ohio State's and Penn State's coaches since the announcement that Michigan was adding varsity lacrosse.

In a press conference call after the May 17 announcement, Johns Hopkins coach Dave Pietramala said he'd expect his team wouldn't be able to begin conference play before the 2015 season, if they were to pursue that course of action.

The move is another blow to the ECAC, who, in addition to losing Denver last week, loses Loyola to the Patriot League starting in 2014, a decision that was announced just months after the Greyhounds won the NCAA championship last summer. Barring other moves that are likely to come, the only remaining ECAC teams for 2016 would be Fairfield, Bellarmine, Air Force and Hobart.

"Death to the NCAA" is starting to look like "Death to the ECAC."

Any truth to this?

I heard through the grapevine that CORNELL was or is talking to the B1G about joining for select sports like hockey, lacrosse etc.

ursusminor
Any truth to this?

I heard through the grapevine that CORNELL was or is talking to the B1G about joining for select sports like hockey, lacrosse etc.

There probably is truth that he heard it through the grapevine. The only question is whether it had already been made into wine.

Jim Hyla

ursusminor
Any truth to this?

I heard through the grapevine that CORNELL was or is talking to the B1G about joining for select sports like hockey, lacrosse etc.

There probably is truth that he heard it through the grapevine. The only question is whether it had already been made into wine.

Not to add the ring of truth to what, in its current form, is just a ridiculous rumor, but I could see the entire league, rather than just Cornell, choosing to join together with the B1G in a select sport or two.

In the case of hockey, the Ivies join together with 6 other hockey-playing schools to form a league. I'm not a fan at all of breaking up the ECACHL, but I could see someone else wondering, "Why not a different six?" And with Hop joining up in lacrosse, I'd take that schedule, with Syracuse and Hobart added in, year-in, year-out. Plus, we can get rid of the silly Ivy tournament and replace it with something interesting.

Anyway, wouldn't it be fun to beat up on the Wolverines—annually—in two sports?

Using this (last) year's KRACH (SiouxSports keeps counting) and Z-Ratings (Carberry!):

B1G/Ivy Hockey             Lacrosse
---------------------------------------------------------
1   (2)  Minnesota         1   (4)  Cornell
2   (4)  Yale              2   (6)  Ohio State
3   (14) Wisconsin         3   (8)  Maryland
4   (20) Brown             4   (9)  Yale
5   (21) Dartmouth         5   (11) Penn State
6   (22) Cornell           6   (12) Pennsylvania
7   (26) Ohio State        7   (13) Princeton
8   (29) Michigan          8   (16) Johns Hopkins
9   (40) Princeton         9   (25) Brown
10  (43) Michigan State    10  (27) Harvard
11  (45) Harvard           11  (46) Dartmouth
12  (50) Penn State        12  (58) Rutgers
                           13  (59) Michigan

Scersk '97

Jim Hyla

ursusminor
Any truth to this?

I heard through the grapevine that CORNELL was or is talking to the B1G about joining for select sports like hockey, lacrosse etc.

There probably is truth that he heard it through the grapevine. The only question is whether it had already been made into wine.

Not to add the ring of truth to what, in its current form, is just a ridiculous rumor, but I could see the entire league, rather than just Cornell, choosing to join together with the B1G in a select sport or two.

In the case of hockey, the Ivies join together with 6 other hockey-playing schools to form a league. I'm not a fan at all of breaking up the ECACHL, but I could see someone else wondering, "Why not a different six?" And with Hop joining up in lacrosse, I'd take that schedule, with Syracuse and Hobart added in, year-in, year-out. Plus, we can get rid of the silly Ivy tournament and replace it with something interesting.

Anyway, wouldn't it be fun to beat up on the Wolverines—annually—in two sports?

Using this (last) year's KRACH (SiouxSports keeps counting) and Z-Ratings (Carberry!):

B1G/Ivy Hockey             Lacrosse
---------------------------------------------------------
1   (2)  Minnesota         1   (4)  Cornell
2   (4)  Yale              2   (6)  Ohio State
3   (14) Wisconsin         3   (8)  Maryland
4   (20) Brown             4   (9)  Yale
5   (21) Dartmouth         5   (11) Penn State
6   (22) Cornell           6   (12) Pennsylvania
7   (26) Ohio State        7   (13) Princeton
8   (29) Michigan          8   (16) Johns Hopkins
9   (40) Princeton         9   (25) Brown
10  (43) Michigan State    10  (27) Harvard
11  (45) Harvard           11  (46) Dartmouth
12  (50) Penn State        12  (58) Rutgers
                           13  (59) Michigan

Pretty sure this would also require the Ivy League to waive a rule about bus travel only for conference games.

I think the way the Ivies "joined" the ECAC was a little different from what you suggest. When the ECAC was formed in the 60s it was just a loose organization of eastern hockey schools designed to help select representatives to the tournament. There was no fixed schedule. I think it's much less likely for the Ivies to join up with other schools these days given the way conferences operate now. Particularly joining up with schools that have a very different philosophy about sports.

KeithK
Particularly joining up with schools that have a very different philosophy about sports.

This is really all that matters. If there were athletically competitive schools with the Ivies' commitment to education, we could make it work. But the problem is there are two chasms separating the Ivies from the rest of college athletics.

On one side, in D-1 the distance in sincere commitment to academic standards for student-athletes between the Ivies and the Big Ten is greater than the difference between the Big Ten and the SEC. Even in schools where academics is respected for the regular student body, like Notre Dame, Duke, or Stanford, it's an open joke when it comes to athletics.

On the other side, the distance in athletics between the Ivies and other conferences with competent academics (e.g., the NESCAC) is just as enormous.

We're stranded.

Trotsky

KeithK
Particularly joining up with schools that have a very different philosophy about sports.

This is really all that matters. If there were athletically competitive schools with the Ivies' commitment to education, we could make it work. But the problem is there are two chasms separating the Ivies from the rest of college athletics.

On one side, in D-1 the distance in sincere commitment to academic standards for student-athletes between the Ivies and the Big Ten is greater than the difference between the Big Ten and the SEC. Even in schools where academics is respected for the regular student body, like Notre Dame, Duke, or Stanford, it's an open joke when it comes to athletics.

On the other side, the distance in athletics between the Ivies and other conferences with competent academics (e.g., the NESCAC) is just as enormous.

We're stranded.

Nice post. You covered a lot in a few sentences. Thanks.

Assuming it came to pass that for hockey, lacrosse, and what else (wrestling ?) the Ivy top schools joined with another league. The league's perennial non-performers might decide to chuck a sport here and there. The Ivy League for sports would implode.

How many other sports exist where a school other than Cornell is dominant every year: fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport) ... rowing (not NCAA) ... polo (horse polo not NCAA) ... soccer? ... squash (not NCAA)? The rest of the Ivy League sees this as a Cornell-only problem.

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

billhoward
Assuming it came to pass that for hockey, lacrosse, and what else (wrestling ?) the Ivy top schools joined with another league. The league's perennial non-performers might decide to chuck a sport here and there. The Ivy League for sports would implode.

How many other sports exist where a school other than Cornell is dominant every year: fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport) ... rowing (not NCAA) ... polo (horse polo not NCAA) ... soccer? ... squash (not NCAA)? The rest of the Ivy League sees this as a Cornell-only problem.

When all NCAA sports are taken into consideration, the Ivy League is not that far from the BCS conferences. (Though most of this is probably because the Ivy League offers the most sports.) Through May 30, six Ivies are in the top 75 nationally. Those numbers could improve for Cornell after the track and field meet this weekend.
[grfx.cstv.com]

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

I also have to stop and think, Did Cornell really kill off men's gymnastics? I am resigned to Lower Alumni Field now having an immovable building atop it. That could have been our (Princeton) Class of '52 gem of a field.

Weder

billhoward
Assuming it came to pass that for hockey, lacrosse, and what else (wrestling ?) the Ivy top schools joined with another league. The league's perennial non-performers might decide to chuck a sport here and there. The Ivy League for sports would implode.

How many other sports exist where a school other than Cornell is dominant every year: fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport) ... rowing (not NCAA) ... polo (horse polo not NCAA) ... soccer? ... squash (not NCAA)? The rest of the Ivy League sees this as a Cornell-only problem.

When all NCAA sports are taken into consideration, the Ivy League is not that far from the BCS conferences. (Though most of this is probably because the Ivy League offers the most sports.) Through May 30, six Ivies are in the top 75 nationally. Those numbers could improve for Cornell after the track and field meet this weekend.
[grfx.cstv.com]

Except that the Ivy schools would basically be the doormats for the Big Ten.

I'm beginning to think that everyone took the grapevines after the harvest. This whole idea is ridiculous.

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

Who is "Rob"?

KeithK

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

Who is "Rob"?

Have I lost my mind or isn't Rob Newman always talking about fencing?

(Note this is not an exclusive or.)

Trotsky

KeithK

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

Who is "Rob"?

Have I lost my mind or isn't Rob Newman always talking about fencing?

(Note this is not an exclusive or.)

Your memory is fine for everything except for spelling. (And I was in a particularly petty/snarky mood when I posted that.)

KeithK
I think the way the Ivies "joined" the ECAC was a little different from what you suggest.

Which is why I wrote "join together with" rather than "join," so as not to suggest what you suggest I did. I'm fully aware that we did not "join" the ECAC. Rather, the ECAC coalesced; through a process of subtraction and accretion, what coalesced has morphed into the ECACHL as we know it.

KeithK
I think it's much less likely for the Ivies to join up with other schools these days given the way conferences operate now. Particularly joining up with schools that have a very different philosophy about sports.

Just to be contrarian, I'll mention that neither lacrosse nor hockey operate or will operate in the "typical way" within either conference, e.g., the B1G doesn't usually invite associate members; in most sports, all schools in a conference participate. I'll also mention that I don't find the philosophy regarding athletics at the B1G schools, outside of the obvious outliers of basketball and football, to be that different from the Ivy philosophy, with the obvious exception of athletic scholarships. Whereas many basketball players and football players at B1G institutions are (often demonstrably) not there for the academics, I would not say the same about the men's hockey players, men's lacrosse players, or women's anything players, at least not any more than I would say the same about some at Ivy institutions.

KeithK

Trotsky

KeithK

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

Who is "Rob"?

Have I lost my mind or isn't Rob Newman always talking about fencing?

(Note this is not an exclusive or.)

Your memory is fine for everything except for spelling. (And I was in a particularly petty/snarky mood when I posted that.)

Ooh, ooh. Do I get added to the spelling guide now?

This one time, at fencing camp...

Scersk '97
in most sports, all schools in a conference participate.

Without being able to provide a shred of statistical evidence, I would be surprised if this is true.

In most conferences, where schools often offer 10 or fewer varsity teams, it seems very unlikely that there would be 100% overlap in "most sports." I could be wrong, of course...

Robb
Ooh, ooh. Do I get added to the spelling guide now?

Yes, you come just before syphilis.

Edit: Goddamnit, Schafer fucked up that joke.

Robb

Scersk '97
in most sports, all schools in a conference participate.

Without being able to provide a shred of statistical evidence, I would be surprised if this is true.

In most conferences, where schools often offer 10 or fewer varsity teams, it seems very unlikely that there would be 100% overlap in "most sports." I could be wrong, of course...

Nah, I think you're right. Indeed, the Ivy League is something of an outlier, I would think, with more than usual "overlap."

Robb

KeithK

Trotsky

KeithK

Trotsky

billhoward
fencing (I had to check that this was an NCAA sport)

I hope Rob doesn't know where you live...

Who is "Rob"?

Have I lost my mind or isn't Rob Newman always talking about fencing?

(Note this is not an exclusive or.)

Your memory is fine for everything except for spelling. (And I was in a particularly petty/snarky mood when I posted that.)

Ooh, ooh. Do I get added to the spelling guide now?

This one time, at fencing camp...

I just pictured "American Pie" except with an epee. Ouch.