Ivy lax tournament 2013

Cornell beats Brown, clinches Ivy League title, will host Ivy lax tournament, will be No. 1 seed.

Pos     Team    GP      Ivy     Ivy Pct GF      GA              GP      Overall Pct     GG      GA      Last10  Streak
1	Cornell	5	5-0	1.000	70	39		13	11-2	0.846	186	108	8-2	Won 1
2	Prin'n	5	3-2	0.600	58	44		12	8-4	0.667	148	109	6-4	Won 1
2       Yale	5	3-2	0.600	44	41		12	8-4	0.667	125	97	7-3	Lost 1
4	Penn	6	3-3	0.500	50	40		11	7-4	0.636	101	82	6-4	Won 1
5	Harvard	5	2-3	0.400	44	52		13	6-7	0.462	122	129	5-5	Lost 1
6	Brown	5	1-4	0.200	37	58		12	6-6	0.500	124	120	5-5	Lost 1
6       D'mouth	5	1-4	0.200	28	57		12	3-9	0.250	92	129	2-8	Lost 1

Penn finishes at 3-3, Harvard can win its way in next week (I think) hosting Yale since it beat Penn in OT. If Cornell beats Princeton and Harvard beats Yale, then everybody finishes 3-3 except Cornell and Brown-Dartmouth. This is where all those second and third tiebreakers come in. A Yale win over Harvard, the field is Cornell, Princeton, Yale, Penn. Interesting question of who we'd most like to play in the first round.

Next week also Cornell-Princeton at Meadowlands, Brown-Dartmouth to decide the far end of the standings.

Are the semifinals going to be on Slope Day again?

billhoward
Cornell beats Brown, clinches Ivy League title, will host Ivy lax tournament, will be No. 1 seed.

Pos     Team    GP      Ivy     Ivy Pct GF      GA              GP      Overall Pct     GG      GA      Last10  Streak
1	Cornell	5	5-0	1.000	70	39		13	11-2	0.846	186	108	8-2	Won 1
2	Prin'n	5	3-2	0.600	58	44		12	8-4	0.667	148	109	6-4	Won 1
2       Yale	5	3-2	0.600	44	41		12	8-4	0.667	125	97	7-3	Lost 1
4	Penn	6	3-3	0.500	50	40		11	7-4	0.636	101	82	6-4	Won 1
5	Harvard	5	2-3	0.400	44	52		13	6-7	0.462	122	129	5-5	Lost 1
6	Brown	5	1-4	0.200	37	58		12	6-6	0.500	124	120	5-5	Lost 1
6       D'mouth	5	1-4	0.200	28	57		12	3-9	0.250	92	129	2-8	Lost 1

Penn finishes at 3-3, Harvard can win its way in next week (I think) hosting Yale since it beat Penn in OT. If Cornell beats Princeton and Harvard beats Yale, then everybody finishes 3-3 except Cornell and Brown-Dartmouth. This is where all those second and third tiebreakers come in. A Yale win over Harvard, the field is Cornell, Princeton, Yale, Penn. Interesting question of who we'd most like to play in the first round.

Next week also Cornell-Princeton at Meadowlands, Brown-Dartmouth to decide the far end of the standings.

In the hypothetical four-way tie, the six relevant games:
3/16: Penn def. Princeton
3/22: Princeton def. Yale
3/30: Yale def. Penn
4/13: Harvard def. Penn
4/19: Princeton def. Harvard
4/27: Harvard def. Yale (assumed)

Princeton and Harvard each 2-1; Yale and Penn each 1-2. Princeton and Yale win each of the respective ties on the single head-to-head result.

   Winners on April 27                  Tournament seeds, in order
Yale           Princeton                Cornell, Princeton, Yale, Penn
Yale           Cornell                  Cornell, Yale, Penn, Princeton
Harvard        Princeton                Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
Harvard        Cornell                  Cornell, Princeton, Harvard, Yale

Ben
Are the semifinals going to be on Slope Day again?

Yes. (But not in 2014 or beyond due to CU's academic calendar modifications.)

Finals: Cornell 17, Princeton 11; Yale 11, Harvard 10.

Friday's Ivy League tournament semifinals:
(3) Penn v. (2) Yale, 5 pm
(4) Princeton at (1) Cornell, 8 pm

The attack really clicked at close range. From the stands it appeared Fiore played well. Princeton tossed a lot of passes out of bounds. So next weeks rematch could be closer. The important thing was Cornell did not collapse in second half. LGR

I thought Fiore had an amazing first half. He gave us the lead that we never gave up. But ESPNU gave Pannell the star of the game for his 5 goals, 4 assists. Hard to argue with that.

We took a lot of stupid penalties that let Princeton make the game close in the 3rd. We need to watch that next week. ESPN also mentioned that Princeton had a lot of unforced errors. This game could have been much closer if not for that.

UNC beats upstart Virginia to win the ACC, 16-13. Virginia needed to win to get an NCAA berth, which would have knocked out at-large team since UNC and Maryland were going regardless. And it would have helped Cornell's SOS. Maybe Virginia's loss helps one extra Ivy team into the tournament as at at-large.

Lehigh whumps Bucknell to win the Patriot League. Bucknell probably goes as an at-large. Lehigh probably would not have.

After Saturday's Big City Classic, winners face losers in opening rounds of their tournament: Syracuse replays Notre Dame in the Big East (Thursday at Villanova), Cornell replays Princeton (Friday at Cornell).
Friday.

The 16-team field has 8 AQs and 8 at-larges.

American East Conference
Big East Conference
Colonial Athletic Conference
Eastern College Athletic Conference
Ivy League
Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
Northeast Conference
Patriot League

So unlike NCAA basketball where are lot of non-conference winners can go in the field of 64, here it's pretty snug. Qualification rules via laxpower [www.laxpower.com] and their guess as to who's ranked highest as of Sunday evening:

[www.laxpower.com]

 No Team              Total  RPI   SOS   QW   RPI SOS QW   WRPI LRPI SW  SL   W  L   WLP

  1 Notre Dame        2.58  0.64  0.68  0.99   1   2   3   .547 .569  0   3  10  3  0.77
  2 Denver            2.57  0.63  0.66  1.00   2   5   1   .530 .600  0   2  11  3  0.79
  3 North Carolina    2.53  0.63  0.63  0.99   3  15   2   .535 .601  0   2  12  3  0.80
  4 Penn State        2.51  0.62  0.65  0.95   5   8   6   .520 .612  1   2  11  3  0.79
  5 Cornell           2.51  0.62  0.61  0.97   4  22   4   .516 .611  0   2  12  2  0.86
  6 Syracuse          2.50  0.61  0.64  0.96   6  11   5   .527 .551  2   3  11  3  0.79
  7 Ohio State        2.47  0.61  0.62  0.93  10  16   7   .499 .626  1   0  10  3  0.77
  8 Duke              2.47  0.60  0.66  0.92  11   4   8   .495 .622  2   1  11  5  0.69
  9 Loyola            2.42  0.61  0.63  0.89   9  14  10   .503 .615  0   1  11  3  0.79
 10 Lehigh            2.42  0.59  0.65  0.88  14  10  11   .490 .571  3   2  12  4  0.75
 11 Bucknell          2.41  0.61  0.66  0.87   8   3  12   .500 .562  1   3  12  4  0.75
 12 Maryland          2.40  0.61  0.61  0.91   7  23   9   .529 .586  0   2   9  3  0.75
 13 Penn              2.33  0.60  0.63  0.83  12  13  14   .527 .591  1   2   8  4  0.67
 14 Drexel            2.31  0.58  0.59  0.85  15  28  13   .489 .597  0   1  11  3  0.79
 15 Yale              2.30  0.59  0.63  0.80  13  12  15   .506 .591  1   2   9  4  0.69
 16 Princeton         2.25  0.56  0.65  0.76  18   7  18   .506 .584  2   1   8  5  0.62
 17 Albany            2.25  0.58  0.59  0.79  16  25  16   .492 .567  1   1  11  4  0.73
 18 Johns Hopkins     2.21  0.57  0.62  0.76  17  18  17   .490 .599  1   1   8  5  0.62
 19 Virginia          2.18  0.56  0.69  0.68  20   1  21   .474 .610  2   0   7  8  0.47
 20 St. John's        2.13  0.56  0.55  0.75  19  44  19   .501 .532  2   3   9  4  0.69 

It appears this incluldes the UNC-VA and Bucknell-Lehigh games.

So if we look at the conferences that don't have a top 16 seed, we get America East, MAAC and Northeast. That says there's only 13 slots free for those on the list. Give 3 of those to the ACC, and that leaves 10 others, 5 of which are autobids. Those are:

Lehigh
Big East (currently Syracuse)
Ivy (hopefully us)
Colonial (Currently Penn State)
ECAC (Currently Denver)

So that means there are only 5 free spaces.

So with no upsets, you get Notre Dame, Ohio State, Loyola, Bucknell, and Penn as the other at-larges (with the ACC).

Jeff Hopkins '82
So if we look at the conferences that don't have a top 16 seed, we get America East, MAAC and Northeast. That says there's only 13 slots free for those on the list. Give 3 of those to the ACC, and that leaves 10 others, 5 of which are autobids. Those are:

Lehigh
Big East (currently Syracuse)
Ivy (hopefully us)
Colonial (Currently Penn State)
ECAC (Currently Denver)

So that means there are only 5 free spaces.

So with no upsets, you get Notre Dame, Ohio State, Loyola, Bucknell, and Penn as the other at-larges (with the ACC).

Actually Villanova is the first seed, as they beat SU. It made for an interesting fact at the SU-ND game. If SU lost then ND would have been first and SU second. SU would then play Villanova in semis. With the win, SU is 2 and ND is 3, so they play in the semis. Shows what can happen with small leagues, as all lax are, and small number of games in the season. If SU's only chance to get to NCAAs was to win the Big East, then losing to ND might have been better.

I think the game in Ithaca will be a bit closer. Princeton doesn't give up 17 goals very often. According to the record books, including Saturday's game, only four times since 1989. Last two times were to us (2005, 2013)

margolism
I think the game in Ithaca will be a bit closer. Princeton doesn't give up 17 goals very often. According to the record books, including Saturday's game, only four times since 1989. Last two times were to us (2005, 2013)

I could see these making Friday's rematch closer:
* Mock & co. don't crash the net for those quick stick goals
* No Cornell long stick breaks free for 2 goals
* Fiore reverts to the norm on save percentage
* Princeton needs an Ivy tournament title to be in the tournament
... or it may just be Cornell has the better team and Cornell matches up well against Princeton compared to against some other teams.

Towson beats Penn State 11-10 Friday in CAA championship. Penn State should get an at-large bid, so that takes away an at-large from maybe one of the Ivy teams.

Yale defeats Penn 9-6

1st: Cornell 4, Princeton 3. Incredible behind the back goal by Mock. Princeton looking sharper than last week.

billhoward
1st: Cornell 4, Princeton 3. Incredible behind the back goal by Mock. Princeton looking sharper than last week.

Hogan, not Mock.

Cornell with seven goals on 31 shots through three periods. Mock not on target...shooting over the cage.

So if the glass is half full, it means eventually Cornell will explode. Hopefully in the fourth quarter.

Princeton goalie stuffing Mock right in the crease.

Now he's stoning Pannell.

Goalies are the difference.

Jim Hyla
Goalies are the difference.

No question. Freshman outplaying senior. Pannell shooting high too often.

Simply awful turnover with :35 to go.

Great game.

Just terrible.

Fun game!

At least the Knicks/Isles won.

Shots 49-30 Cornell; faceoffs 21-9 Cornell; ground balls 40-29 Cornell; should not have lost that game. Six saves against 14 goals the difference.

Give Princeton credit for adjusting to the 17-11 loss last week better than Cornell found new ways to crush Princeton. Cornell's huge shot advantage should win this kind of matchup most times. Just not every time.

Tambroni and Deluca have a history of not doing well in close games. It is no coincidence they each lose the same way. Each seems to have the inability to recreate pressure situations with the game on the line in practice, otherwise outcomes would be different on occasion. Fast starts are great, finishing the game strong with momentum is better. Syracuse 2009 is the epitome of not being prepared to be a champion.

It's a shame. Probable a goalie away from making a serious run at the title.

frustrating because the game displayed many of the same problems identified earlier in the season
very early in the 1st Cornell won 5 straight faceoffs, but turned 2 over immediately resulting in a Princeton 3-2 lead
it was another opportunity to real take a team completely out in the first half squandered

I dont normally lean on Donovan as much as some posters on the Laxpower board, but tonight he showed plenty of dancing behind the goal with no effect other spent energy. either he needs to make a strong move to get in shooting position or run some offense (the lack of cutters make me think they were clearing for him to make a move) A small bright spot was that in the 4th he scored twice cutting from X and hung his defender on the cage at least twice... would like to see him continue to make an impact 'off ball'

Fiore definitely struggled tonight, but the HUGE blunder was him leaving the cage for a 50/50 ball when Cornell had 3 guys surrounding the Princeton player
then the passing turnover with 35secs left when we were holding for the last shot, unbelieveable

I thought we were going to get another possession when they desticked the princeton carrier, but it was pushed over the endline and Princeton scored on the restart

very frustrating, I commented on the Laxpower forums that seeding could become very interesting. there was discussion of Cornell being a 6 or 7 seed assuming they did win the tournament. they might have some help, with other high ranking teams also losing in their tournaments... but we certainly havent controlled our destiny and it seems like there will be a huge logjam providin the committee plenty of cover to make match ups they find interesting, reduce travel distances, make $$ etc

for now we will have to wait for Sunday...
I think they will bounce back, but we are out of space for mistakes and they may find they have a very tough draw in the tournament

This loss is not all on Fiore. The defense gave Princeton -- especially MacDonald -- looks they shouldn't have. I am not saying that AJ is blameless but defense is a team responsibility.

dag14
This loss is not all on Fiore. The defense gave Princeton -- especially MacDonald -- looks they shouldn't have. I am not saying that AJ is blameless but defense is a team responsibility.

No question. Princeton shot a high percentage because they were getting good looks. But Sanschagrin stoned some really good looks by Mock and Pannell, especially in th second half when the game was on the line. Your goalie has to come up with a few of those to win big-time games.

Al DeFlorio
Shots 49-30 Cornell; faceoffs 21-9 Cornell; ground balls 40-29 Cornell; should not have lost that game. Six saves against 14 goals the difference.

No bout a doubt it, AJ is either feast or famine.
Last night I think he left all the CU fans feeling like Starvin' Marvin.
And, the "growl" isn't just their stomachs.
Can anybody smell a Thompson Tewaaraton??

Fiore has to come up with one save in the 4th and they win the game. One. Six goals, no saves. Regardless how the defense played that was a horrible performance by him. Fiore had 3 saves in the 2nd half, Sanschagrin had 10.

I do believe that a lax goalie might have the toughest job in sport. Still, one save from a senior in the 4th quarter is not too much to expect.

ithacat
Fiore has to come up with one save in the 4th and they win the game. One. Six goals, no saves.

I thought the Princeton shot with 4 seconds left that dinged the left post was also deflected by Fiore. I guess not.

So, is it unusual for a team that dominates its conference RS to lose in the playoffs? Are we developing the reputation of choking, or is it pretty much a crapshoot in a one-and-done tournament?

Sanschagrin was getting beat on low shots and bouncers which I am sure where Yale will be attacking him. Red could not beat him up high. I was disappointed with the defensive effort. How many times were Princeton guys getting wide open shots?

I saw one point in the first half where they showed the shot stats. Princeton was 2 for 4. Cornell was 1 for 10. That says it all for me.

Hopefully this wakes them up for the NCAAs.

At the very end, two high school mistakes: Cornell throws a pass out of bounds. Princeton returns the favor by going offside. Imagine if the other team scored right after that.

Based on the Laxpower tournament probability, I think we want Yale to beat Princeton. A loss for Princeton would have to hurt Princeton more than it hurts us, right?

Woke up, turned on TV, and indeed it's still Princeton not Cornell vs. Yale for title. Eli taking it to Princeton, 6-3 at the half. Princeton up 2-0 first 10 minutes, Yale rolls to 6-2 lead, Princeton finally scores in the last half minute. Yale has won every faceoff. If Princeton loses, it looks as if the Tigers are capable of one-game great feats (Duke, Cornell) but wouldn't put together a four-game tournament run. A three-goal lead of course in nothing.

Announcers say Cornell is in regardless (and then somebody breaks in and says, "Well, not for certain" and talk of Loyola as the first (last) bubble team to get in, with the other bubble teams Bucknell, Yale, Princeton, and St. John's. Ivies as at-large teams being hurt by all the conferences where the favorites didn't win.

Selection show on ESPN U at 9 pm EDT Sunday (tonight).

[edit add] Yale 11-6 after three. Princeton runs off two straight to open period and tie at 6-6, Yale runs off five to lead 11-6. So far no offsetting goals; everything has been runs of two to six goals.

Final Yale 12, Princeton 8. Yale gets Ivy League auto-bid for the second straight year, Cornell most likely an at-large bid, Princeton most likely out.

I hate sudden death. It is not really a good indicator of team is the better team.

margolism
I hate sudden death. It is not really a good indicator of team is the better team.

Especially in lacrosse where it is very possible to win the face-off and score in 3 seconds*. Something like a 4 min OTs with a ~ 45 second shot clock might be a way to ensure both teams get possession and encourage them to move the ball and score hopefully have a goal differential at the end.

* Yes I know that in hockey you can score a GWG in OT in about 9 sec, but usually hockey OTs fall in between the 9 sec and 59 min range, more on the left end of that scale, with both teams having a fair chance of winning the game.

margolism
I hate sudden death. It is not really a good indicator of team is the better team.

Overtime in the first years of the NCAAs was the winner after an OT period, which is how Cornell and Maryland went into the 1976 championship overtime tied at 12 and Cornell won 16-13 after giving up the first OT goal. The difference between first-goal wins and a 4-minute (?) OT in terms of affecting TV programming is nil.

billhoward

margolism
I hate sudden death. It is not really a good indicator of team is the better team.

Overtime in the first years of the NCAAs was the winner after an OT period, which is how Cornell and Maryland went into the 1976 championship overtime tied at 12 and Cornell won 16-13 after giving up the first OT goal. The difference between first-goal wins and a 4-minute (?) OT in terms of affecting TV programming is nil.

Back then did it work the same way in the regular season, or was it a tie if it was tied after 60? Also, did they still have multiple overtime periods or would it be a tie after the first overtime if they did have it in the regular season?

I really don't see a problem with a game that's tied after regulation to just be a tie. If both teams have scored the same amount, that's likely the fairest reflection on the game's performance. I guess Americans are just too impatient. It's also why we have to have playoffs in every sport and can't just crown the team at the top of the table champions at the end of the season. Europeans don't seem to have that problem.

Ronald '09

Back then did it work the same way in the regular season, or was it a tie if it was tied after 60? Also, did they still have multiple overtime periods or would it be a tie after the first overtime if they did have it in the regular season?

No ties in the regular season. Four minute overtime with no sudden victory. If still tied after first overtime, played a second, etc. Much fairer way to decide a game where 20 total goals are the norm.