Lacrosse polls 2013

Week of April 8, Cornell is second to Maryland in both polls.

Coaches' poll 4/8/13

1 Maryland, 194 points, 6 first place votes
2 Cornell, 190 points, 3 first place votes
3 North Carolina, 173
4 Denver, 169
5 Notre Dame, 153
Syracuse is 7, Princeton 10, Penn 14, Yale 15, and the Virginia team we struggled to beat is now out of the top 20.

Nike/Inside Lacrosse poll 4/8/13)

1 Maryland, 456 points, 19 first place votes
2 Cornell, 435 points, 4 first place votes
3 Denver
4 Notre Dame
5 Loyola
Syracuse is 7, Princeton 9, Penn is 16, Yale is 17 and Virginia is also out of the IL top 20.

Maryland and Cornell are the only one-loss teams in the top 20. Three top 10 teams have three losses and Duke has four.


Karnak the Kessenich Top 20
The Inside Lacrosse columnist has Cornell struggling to hold onto No. 5 in his poll.
1 Maryland ("wins over Loyola and Duke as significant resume ammunition" )
2 Duke ("The Devils are hot now" )
3 North Carolina ("The Heels have won five straight ... attack is as good as advertised" )
4 Denver ("The Pioneers are 9-2 with wins over Duke, Lehigh, Penn, and Ohio State" ... snuck past Bellarmine. Unimpressive." )
5 Cornell ("The Big Red (10-1) have only beaten two teams in my Top 20 — Yale and Penn. A two-goal win over Harvard by a 14-12 score has me questioning their defense, which has given up 11 goals to Hobart, 11 to UVa, 10 to Yale and 12 to Harvard." ) Rather than mention the juggernaut on attack, he types in their stats: "Rob Pannell has 59 points. Steve Mock has 37 goals. Connor Buczek (17, 13), Max Van Bourgondien (19, 6), Matt Donovan (14, 6) and Connor English (11, 6) have the Big Red shooting 32%."

Dump-on-the-Yankees week continues with thoughts on No. 9 Princeton: "The Tigers are 6-3 with losses to UNC, Penn and Syracuse, surrendering 16, 11 and 13 goals against in those setbacks. Wins over Hofstra, Hopkins and Yale doesn't scream at-large. Saturday's loss to Cuse once again exposed the Tigers liabilities on defense. Sliding to non-threats, while creating offense for the opponent is a recipe for disaster. I see this trend every week: Why are teams sliding upfield to non-threats while leaving more dangerous men open in the slot?" [edit add: You mean doing like Notre Dame defenders did in 2010, staying home in OT vs. Duke and watching the faceoff guy sail in to win the national championship?]

Among teams 11-20, he devotes twice as much space to No. 19 Johns Hopkins, recent loser to Albany. Wonder why all the ink?

Never mind that Duke struggled to beat Harvard as well. The guy is a seriously biased loudmouth. But why waste time worrying about his opinion. The selection criteria has become so tilted towards objective factors, which by the way I don't really like, that it doesn't matter what someone like Quint thinks.

Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.

Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.

ugarte
Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.

Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.

Agreed.
Wednesday's tilt against Syracuse will tell a lot.

ugarte
Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.

Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.

I'm sorry that I bored you. I was not accusing him of anything. Just stating my opinion that I think he is biased. An accusation assumes that I think he is doing something bad whereas all I was saying was that I couldn't care what he says and that it doesn't matter what he says given the more "supposedly" objective criteria these days.
Agree that any result is possible this year and that goes for all the top teams.

ugarte
Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense. Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.

Hey, everyone needs a chance to vent. especially when it's easy pickings. Kessenich columns are low-hanging fruit.

[edit add:] Notice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time. These people believe if a shot past the end line doesn't wind up in the Chesapeake, it's not real lacrosse.

Redscore

ugarte
Accusations of bias are boring. The fact is that we've been nervous about Cornell's close games and collapse against Bucknell too. Some polls place Cornell at #2, which is great, but it seems to be a function of parity, not Cornell standing out. They keep losing faceoffs and the constant lack of possession is putting a strain on the defense.

Neither a national title or a first round NCAA loss would be much of a shock.

I'm sorry that I bored you. I was not accusing him of anything. Just stating my opinion that I think he is biased. An accusation assumes that I think he is doing something bad whereas all I was saying was that I couldn't care what he says and that it doesn't matter what he says given the more "supposedly" objective criteria these days.
Agree that any result is possible this year and that goes for all the top teams.

Apology accepted. Let's not make this a habit, though.

To quote my favorite cheer from the Cornell-UVa game in Foxboro: "Suck it, Quint!"

billhoward

Notice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time.

Swami always leaves if Quint arrives. There's a backstory involving Ms. Bimbette... Nuff said.

Ivyman

billhoward

Notice you never see QK and the Lax Swami in the same room at the same time.

Swami always leaves if Quint arrives. There's a backstory involving Ms. Bimbette... Nuff said.

That is not Nuff said. Don't drop a bomb like that and walk away.

Wow, polls are screwy this week.

We are #7
Maryland #4

Meet your new #1....Denver

margolism
Wow, polls are screwy this week.

We are #7
Maryland #4

Meet your new #1....Denver

West coast bias.

USILA Coaches Poll via [insidelacrosse.com]
#1 Maryland loses to #15 drops 3 positions. #15 up 4 positions.
#2 Cornell loses to #7 drops 5 positions. #7 up 2 positions
More first place votes for the second place team

Rank    Team (record)                   Votes   Firsts
1	University of Denver (10 - 2)	193	3		
2	University N Carolina (9 - 3)	191	5		
3	University Notre Dame (9 - 2)	175	2		
4	University of Maryland (8 - 2)	162			
5	Syracuse University (9 - 2)	161			
6	Duke University (10 - 4)	155			
7	Cornell University (10 - 2)	142			
8	Loyola University (9 - 3)	133			
9	Penn State University (9 - 3)	116			
10	University at Albany (9 - 3)	103			
11	Johns Hopkins (7 - 4)		95			
12	Ohio State University (8 - 3)	71			
12	Princeton University (7 - 4)	71			
12	Yale University (7 - 3)		71			
15	Bucknell University (10 - 3)	70			
16	Lehigh University (9 - 4)	68			
17	Drexel University (9 - 3)	54			
18	University Pennsylvania (6 - 4)	29			
19	Villanova University (5 - 6)	16			
20	Hofstra University (7 - 5)	 9	
Cornell and opponents bolded

We've played 5 top 20 teams and are 2-2 now with Princeton to come. Virginia was top 20 when we played them; doesn't count now. We should have played Albany ("University at Albany" in the poll text) not Siena. Army though not in top 20 would have been a better NYS option.

Nike/Coaces poll [insidelacrosse.com]
1	Denver
2 	Notre Dame
3	Syracuse
4	Maryland
5	N Carolina
6	Cornell
7	Duke
8 	Loyola
9	Penn State 
10	Albany 

margolism
Wow, polls are screwy this week.

We are #7
Maryland #4

Meet your new #1....Denver

My initial reaction was to snort and blame it on media love for Tierney, but looking at it a little more, they're 10-2 against a tough schedule (their opponents thus far are a combined 83-53), with wins over Duke and defending champs Loyola; their only losses are to 9-3 Penn State (Tambroni has them coming along well) and to Notre Dame in overtime. It pisses me off to say it, but they're pretty good.

That being said, Laxpower's rankings still have Maryland and Cornell 1-2.

Josh '99

margolism
Wow, polls are screwy this week.

We are #7
Maryland #4

Meet your new #1....Denver

My initial reaction was to snort and blame it on media love for Tierney, but looking at it a little more, they're 10-2 against a tough schedule (their opponents thus far are a combined 83-53), with wins over Duke and defending champs Loyola; their only losses are to 9-3 Penn State (Tambroni has them coming along well) and to Notre Dame in overtime. It pisses me off to say it, but they're pretty good.

That being said, Laxpower's rankings still have Maryland and Cornell 1-2.

The same Laxpower computer ranking has our final two RS opponents Brown at #23 and Princeton at #5: [www.laxpower.com]

Trotsky

margolism
Wow, polls are screwy this week.

We are #7
Maryland #4

Meet your new #1....Denver

West coast bias.

Nope. ACC bias. As usual.

Having lost to #5 and #15, a ranking in the neighborhood of 6-7 doesn't feel like an affront.

ugarte
Having lost to #5 and #15, a ranking in the neighborhood of 6-7 doesn't feel like an affront.

No, it doesn't. But comparatively speaking, Maryland is over-ranked.

And rankings don't look at the losses more qualitatively:

Both one goal losses
Loss to Buckness was without leading scorer playing

margolism
And rankings don't look at the losses more qualitatively:
Both one goal losses
Loss to Buckness was without leading scorer playing

Good points. Except leading goal-scorer Mock played vs. Syracuse and was held to one goal. Syracuse is trending upward and at least for last week's meeting, shut down our attack reasonably after Q1. I think we still have as good a shot as anyone to do well in the tournament.

Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

Al DeFlorio
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

Does this hurt or help our RPI?

Swampy

Al DeFlorio
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

Does this hurt or help our RPI?

Answered my own question. We now rank fourth in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer. So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen!

Swampy

Swampy

Al DeFlorio
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

Does this hurt or help our RPI?

Answered my own question. We now rank fourth in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer. So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen!

The story projects us the 8-seed hosting Loyola. Penn State would be seeded ahead of us. It predicts the last four out as Bucknell, Ohio State, Princeton, amd Johns Hopkins. No other Ivies make the playoffs. Obviously a lot can happen in the season's last two weeks, but if we're lingering at #8 seed now, a loss anywhere along the way might put us on the road. And Princeton, Penn and Yale have more incentive to win the tournament; it could be their only way in to the NCAAs. First, let's beat Brown Saturday to lock up the Ivy title and home field for the Ivy tournament.

The projected matchups and the QF sites from the bracketology story [www.laxmagazine.com]

Indianapolis (QF site)

(1) Notre Dame vs. NORTHEAST/Bryant
(8) IVY/Cornell vs. Loyola

College Park

(4) COLONIAL/Penn State vs. Yale
(5) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh

College Park

(3) North Carolina vs. BIG EAST/Villanova
(6) Maryland vs. AMERICA EAST/Albany

Indianapolis

(2) ECAC/Denver vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Marist
(7) Duke vs. Penn

billhoward

Swampy

Swampy

Al DeFlorio
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

Does this hurt or help our RPI?

Answered my own question. We now rank fourth in RPI. But what was our previous RPI? Ah, here's the answer. So Hobart just raised us from #6 to #4. Thanks Statesmen!

The story projects us the 8-seed hosting Loyola. Penn State would be seeded ahead of us. It predicts the last four out as Bucknell, Ohio State, Princeton, amd Johns Hopkins. No other Ivies make the playoffs. Obviously a lot can happen in the season's last two weeks, but if we're lingering at #8 seed now, a loss anywhere along the way might put us on the road. And Princeton, Penn and Yale have more incentive to win the tournament; it could be their only way in to the NCAAs. First, let's beat Brown Saturday to lock up the Ivy title and home field for the Ivy tournament.

The projected matchups and the QF sites from the bracketology story [www.laxmagazine.com]

Indianapolis (QF site)

(1) Notre Dame vs. NORTHEAST/Bryant
(8) IVY/Cornell vs. Loyola

College Park

(4) COLONIAL/Penn State vs. Yale
(5) Syracuse vs. PATRIOT/Lehigh

College Park

(3) North Carolina vs. BIG EAST/Villanova
(6) Maryland vs. AMERICA EAST/Albany

Indianapolis

(2) ECAC/Denver vs. METRO ATLANTIC/Marist
(7) Duke vs. Penn

Terry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.

Al DeFlorio
Terry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.

Ouch. A shot across Cornell's bow about strength of schedule? Why did Cornell pick up Siena? Did Cornell believe Siena was ready for a breakout year (i.e. powerful enough to give us a quality win) with its best player departed after a 2011 NCAA appearance?

All this is just speculation for now as to where Cornell would play.

billhoward

Al DeFlorio
Terry Foy's bracket at Inside Lacrosse has Cornell playing at Albany.

Ouch. A shot across Cornell's bow about strength of schedule? Why did Cornell pick up Siena? Did Cornell believe Siena was ready for a breakout year (i.e. powerful enough to give us a quality win) with its best player departed after a 2011 NCAA appearance?

All this is just speculation for now as to where Cornell would play.

or if we make the tourney.

Al DeFlorio
Yikes! Hobart over Syracuse tonight, 13-12.

USCHO fan forum flashback........oh, the humanity.

That was last year, Jim. Lightning doesn't strike tw-- oops

Given how zany this year has been, I've heard it's called "parity," any of the top teams has a realistic chance of winning or losing on any night, especially as we get into the conference championships and then the tournaments. So, as we saw with Hobart/Cuse, our record could change drastically for better or worse even if we win the Ivy AQ (cf. e.g., Yale v. MD on Saturday). And this will affect seeding when the NC tournament begins.

Although I usually don't like what he has to say, Quint Kessenich was right on the money with his analysis this week. He points out that the Cornell-Syracuse game was "won by a margin of centimeters." In fact, Cornell is just four goals away, in two one-goal games, from being undefeated and ranked #1.

More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

Hopefully the long layoff before the Brown game has given the coaching staff time to address some of these weaknesses, although most of them seem to be matters of personnel rather than coaching. Let's hope it doesn't rain on Saturday, and we see improvement in all these areas after what amounts to a week and a half mini-camp!

Swampy
More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

ugarte

Swampy
More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Not always:

Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29. Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Swampy
More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Not always:

Saves: Hobart 18 (Peter Zonino), Syracuse 7 (Dominic Lamolinara). Shots: Syracuse 46-29. Faceoffs: Syracuse 20-9. Extra-man opps: Hobart 3-5, Syracuse 1-3. Ground balls: Syracuse 37-28.

I wasn't talking about Syracuse or stats in general. I'll highlight the difference-maker in Syracuse - Hobart.

ugarte

Swampy
More troubling, he identifies our weaknesses (correctly IMHO): lack of depth at ssdm, a defense that is not lock-down, good but not great goal tending, and a weak second midfield.

No comment on the problems with face-offs? That's the biggest problem, I think. In the games that I've seen (not a lot, admittedly), as long as the team can start with possession at even a SMALL disadvantage, the other problems are usually overwhelmed by impressive offensive efficiency. When we aren't winning faceoffs at all, the efficient offensive gets swamped by giving up so many chances.

Well, Yale killed us at FO's and we still won by 2. Doug T. & the FO unit currently rank 14th in the country on FO's. So they're a good but not elite unit.

Denver loses to Fairfield in OT (its sixth one-goal game in 2013) and the emperor's reign at the top is done for now. Cornell up slightly to sixth (was seventh) in the USILA poll for 4/22/13 after beating Brown. Syracuse slipping to ninth from fifth after losing to Hobart. Big weekend in the Meadlowlands, Cornell-Princeton 4pm, Syracuse-Notre Dame 6:30. Princeton dismantled Harvard Saturday, remains #12.

USILA POLL 4/22/13 [insidelacrosse.com]
Rank    Team (W-L)                      Votes   Firsts                       
1	University N Carolina (10 - 3)	176	6		
2	University Notre Dame (10 - 2)	167	3		
3	University of Maryland (9 - 2)	157			
4	University of Denver (10 - 3)	151			
5	Duke University (11 - 4)	143			
6	Cornell University (11 - 2)	138			
7	Loyola University (10 - 3)	130			
8	Penn State University (10 - 3)	112			
9	Syracuse University (10 - 3)	109			
10	University at Albany (10 - 3)	98			
11	Johns Hopkins Un (8 - 4)	84			
12	Princeton University (8 - 4)	77			
13	Ohio State University (9 - 3)	66			
13	Bucknell University (11 - 3)	66			
15	Yale University (8 - 4)	        57			
16	Lehigh University (10 - 4)	55			
17	Drexel University (10 - 3)	39			
18	University of Penn (7 - 4)	28			
19	Army (8 - 4)            	10			
20	Fairfield University (8 - 5)	7	

Cornell and opponents in boldface.


Nike/Media poll much friendlier, has Cornell at #4 and a first place vote.

Rank	Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 2)	408	15		
2	Univ of Maryland (9 - 2)	374	2		
3	Univ of North Carolina (10 - 3)	368	3		
4	Cornell University (11 - 2)	337	1		
5	University of Denver (10 - 3)	331			
6	Duke University (11 - 4)	320			
7	Syracuse University (10 - 3)	308			
8	Loyola University (10 - 3)	285			
9	Penn State University (10 - 3)	246			
10	University at Albany (10 - 3)	201			
11	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 4)	196			
12	Princeton University (8 - 4)	171			
13	Ohio State University (9 - 3)	163			
14	Lehigh University (10 - 4)	147			
15	Yale University (8 - 4) 	135			
16	Bucknell University (11 - 3)	121			
17	Drexel University (10 - 3)	102			
18	University of Penn (7 - 4)	55			
19	Villanova University (5 - 7)	29			
20	Saint Johns University (8 - 4)	22			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES Fairfield University , Army , Towson University , Marist College , Hobart College

The two top 20s show Albany, Army, Lehigh and St John's as nearby top 20 teams we could have played instead of Siena, Colgate, Binghamton or Canisus for a better strength of schedule. At least we know that in hindsight.

The Kessenich Report [insidelacrosse.com] has Cornell seventh, Princeton 12th. The Hopkins alum devotes 246 of the 1,952 words for teams 1-20 in his top 20 analysis on guess-which team and its game?

LaxPower Computer ranking has us second.

                                          Power   POLL  SOS   RPI   QWF   TSI
 Rank       Team                          Rating  Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk    Records
 
   1        Maryland                      99.90     3     4     3     3     2    9- 2- 0
   2        Cornell                       99.88     6    25     5    23     6   11- 2- 0
   3        North Carolina                99.49     1     3     4     4     1   10- 3- 0
   4        Johns Hopkins                 99.34    11    14    16    15    11    8- 4- 0
   5        Loyola                        99.08     7    20     9    25     9   10- 3- 0
   6        Princeton                     98.98    12     9    18    17    12    8- 4- 0
   7        Notre Dame                    98.65     2     8     2     1     3   10- 2- 0
   8        Denver                        98.48     4    11     1     2     4   10- 3- 0
   9        Yale                          98.39    15     5    11    18     7    8- 4- 0
  10        Penn State                    98.30     8    18     6     9     8   10- 3- 0
  11        Duke                          98.19     5    15     7     6     5   11- 4- 0
  12        Penn                          98.15    18     2    14     8    13    7- 4- 0
  13        Albany                        98.04    10    30    13    12    15   10- 3- 0
  14        Syracuse                      97.74     9    13    10     5    10   10- 3- 0
  15        Bucknell                      97.61    13    24     8     7    14   11- 3- 0

RPI from Inside Lacrosse has us 5.

RANK 	SCHOOL 	  CONFERENCE 	  RECORD 	ROAD 	NEUTRAL 	HOME 	NON-DI
1 	Denver 	        ECAC 	   10-3 	4-0 	1- 2 	5-1 	0-0
2 	Notre Dame 	Big East   10-2 	4-0 	2- 0 	4-2 	0-0
3 	Maryland 	ACC 	    9-2 	6-0 	0- 0 	3-2 	0-0
4 	North Carolina 	ACC 	   10-3 	3-1 	0- 1 	7-1 	0-0
5 	Cornell 	Ivy 	   11-2 	5-1 	1- 0 	5-1 	0-0
6 	Penn St. 	Colonial   10-3 	6-0 	1- 1 	3-2 	0-0
7 	Duke 	        ACC 	   11-4 	3-1 	0- 0 	8-3 	0-0
8 	Bucknell 	Patriot    11-3 	6-1 	0- 0 	5-2 	0-0
9 	Loyola Maryland ECAC 	   10-3 	6-1 	1- 0 	3-2 	0-0
10 	Syracuse 	Big East   10-3 	3-1 	1- 0 	6-2 	0-0
11 	Yale 	        Ivy 	    8-4 	3-3 	0- 0 	5-1 	0-0
12 	Ohio St. 	ECAC 	    9-3 	6-1 	0- 0 	3-2 	0-0
13 	Albany (NY) 	Amer East  10-3 	7-1 	0- 0 	3-2 	0-0
14 	Penn 	        Ivy 	    7-4 	3-3 	0- 0 	4-1 	0-0
15 	Drexel 	        Colonial   10-3 	3-3 	0- 0 	7-0 	0-0

Not that I believe either of them.

Jim Hyla
LaxPower Computer ranking has us second.

                                          Power   POLL  SOS   RPI   QWF   TSI
 Rank       Team                          Rating  Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk   Rnk    Records
 
   1        Maryland                      99.90     3     4     3     3     2    9- 2- 0
   2        Cornell                       99.88     6    25     5    23     6   11- 2- 0
   3        North Carolina                99.49     1     3     4     4     1   10- 3- 0
   4        Johns Hopkins                 99.34    11    14    16    15    11    8- 4- 0
   5        Loyola                        99.08     7    20     9    25     9   10- 3- 0
   6        Princeton                     98.98    12     9    18    17    12    8- 4- 0
   7        Notre Dame                    98.65     2     8     2     1     3   10- 2- 0
   8        Denver                        98.48     4    11     1     2     4   10- 3- 0
   9        Yale                          98.39    15     5    11    18     7    8- 4- 0
  10        Penn State                    98.30     8    18     6     9     8   10- 3- 0
  11        Duke                          98.19     5    15     7     6     5   11- 4- 0
  12        Penn                          98.15    18     2    14     8    13    7- 4- 0
  13        Albany                        98.04    10    30    13    12    15   10- 3- 0
  14        Syracuse                      97.74     9    13    10     5    10   10- 3- 0
  15        Bucknell                      97.61    13    24     8     7    14   11- 3- 0

This was the case last week as well, and I'm a little puzzled by it. The various other ranks don't have us any higher than 5th in the case of RPI, and as low as 25th in the case of SOS. Based on the other ranks posted, it would seem like there are valid reasons why UNC and Notre Dame should be ahead of us, and maybe even still Denver too. Their ranking scheme is a bit opaque, if I recall correctly from the last time I looked into it, tough, so hopefully they're right.

SOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?

Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.

No chance we play Penn State with Tambroni there. Additionally, the W over Virginia in most years is definitely one to hang your hat on, and I would have guessed a stronger year out of Colgate with Baum coming back.

billhoward
SOS #25. Binghamton, Colgate, Hobart, Canisus, Siena put a hit on our SOS. You can't know in advance who's up and down. And we want to play other NYS teams to help NYS and save on travel. I would bet that a schedule with Albany-Army in place of Binghamton-Siena would be stronger most years and Binghamton may be a same-day trip. Playing Lehigh as well as Bucknell would help SOS. How soon before we book Penn State, 180 miles away?

Most of the rest of the Ivy League can do better on SOS because they play us and Princeton.

I think you missed my point. I'm puzzled by how high our Laxpower rank is given the relatively low numbers in the other ranking metrics, especially the low SoS as influenced the weak NYS opposition that you keep mentioning with such frequency that I'm starting to think it must have something to do with the lighting at Quinnipiac's rink.

I believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.

Yeh. Everybody who had 2 Patriot League teams from Pennsylvania and St. Johns ahead of UVa in your preseason thoughts raise your hand.

semsox
I believe the Laxpower rankings take into account scoring margins and such. I don't think it's that much of a stretch, as Cornell has one of the most efficient offenses and defenses in the country. All of the advanced lacrosse metrics rank Cornell very high; it just seems some of the human pollsters are not seeing it to the same extent. If the numbers keep where they are, the team will begin turning more heads as it gets ready for a hopefully very, very deep playoff run.

Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

Jim Hyla
Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?

billhoward

Jim Hyla
Correct, they use a margin of victory which has scoring margin and home/away as part of the mix.

Isn't there a cap on MOV to collapse the effect of the early 19-11, 11-6, 19-3, 18-7 runaways?

10 goals.

3 of 5 teams ahead of Cornell in USILA poll lost Friday or Saturday; #1 UNC won Friday and plays resurgent Virginia for ACC title Sunday. So the poll is going to change. In the Nike/Media poll where Cornell is 4th, 2 of the 3 teams ahead of #4 Cornell have lost. Root for Virginia vs. UNC Sunday to help our SOS. How this affects our NCAA seeding depends on other upsets and how we do in the Ivy tournament vs. Princeton Friday and then hopefully against the Yale-Penn winner Sunday. Laxpower has us #1 in computer rankings as of Sat nite: [www.laxpower.com]

billhoward
Denver loses to Fairfield in OT (its sixth one-goal game in 2013) and the emperor's reign at the top is done for now. Cornell up slightly to sixth (was seventh) in the USILA poll for 4/22/13 after beating Brown. Syracuse slipping to ninth from fifth after losing to Hobart. Big weekend in the Meadlowlands, Cornell-Princeton 4pm, Syracuse-Notre Dame 6:30. Princeton dismantled Harvard Saturday, remains #12.

USILA POLL 4/22/13 [insidelacrosse.com]
Rank    Team (W-L)                      Votes   Firsts                       
1	University N Carolina (10 - 3)	176	6	<<< [edit add Sat 4/27] Beat Duke 18-17 Fri in ACC tourney, plays Virginia Sunday	
2	University Notre Dame (10 - 2)	167	3	<<< Lost 10-4 to Syracuse	
3	University of Maryland (9 - 2)	157		<<< Lost Friday to Virginia	13-6
4	University of Denver (10 - 3)	151		<<< Beat Michigan 12-4	
5	Duke University (11 - 4)	143		<<< Lost Friday to NC	
6	Cornell University (11 - 2)	138		<<< Beat Princeton 17-11	
7	Loyola University (10 - 3)	130			
8	Penn State University (10 - 3)	112			
9	Syracuse University (10 - 3)	109			
10	University at Albany (10 - 3)	98			
11	Johns Hopkins Un (8 - 4)	84			
12	Princeton University (8 - 4)	77			
13	Ohio State University (9 - 3)	66			
13	Bucknell University (11 - 3)	66			
15	Yale University (8 - 4)	        57			
16	Lehigh University (10 - 4)	55			
17	Drexel University (10 - 3)	39			
18	University of Penn (7 - 4)	28			
19	Army (8 - 4)            	10			
20	Fairfield University (8 - 5)	7	

Cornell and opponents in boldface.


Nike/Media poll much friendlier, has Cornell at #4 and a first place vote.

Rank	Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 2)	408	15		
2	Univ of Maryland (9 - 2)	374	2		
3	Univ of North Carolina (10 - 3)	368	3		
4	Cornell University (11 - 2)	337	1		
5	University of Denver (10 - 3)	331			
6	Duke University (11 - 4)	320			
7	Syracuse University (10 - 3)	308			
8	Loyola University (10 - 3)	285			
9	Penn State University (10 - 3)	246			
10	University at Albany (10 - 3)	201			
11	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 4)	196			
12	Princeton University (8 - 4)	171			
13	Ohio State University (9 - 3)	163			
14	Lehigh University (10 - 4)	147			
15	Yale University (8 - 4) 	135			
16	Bucknell University (11 - 3)	121			
17	Drexel University (10 - 3)	102			
18	University of Penn (7 - 4)	55			
19	Villanova University (5 - 7)	29			
20	Saint Johns University (8 - 4)	22			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES Fairfield University , Army , Towson University , Marist College , Hobart College

The two top 20s show Albany, Army, Lehigh and St John's as nearby top 20 teams we could have played instead of Siena, Colgate, Binghamton or Canisus for a better strength of schedule. At least we know that in hindsight.

The Kessenich Report [insidelacrosse.com] has Cornell seventh, Princeton 12th. The Hopkins alum devotes 246 of the 1,952 words for teams 1-20 in his top 20 analysis on guess-which team and its game?

Cornell after the Meadowlands win over Princeton climbs to No. 2 behind North Carolina. Cornell is the only two-loss team; everyone else in the top 20 has three or more. I believe a .500 record is required for at-large consideration, so No. 17
Virginia at 7-8 is out. Virginia has the No. 1 SOS while Cornell was 22nd.


USILA coaches poll [insidelacrosse.com]

Rank		Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ North  Carolina (12 - 3)	200	10		
2	Cornell University (12 - 2)	182			
3	University of Denver (11 - 3)	178			
4	Loyola University (11 - 3)	161			
5	Syracuse University (11 - 3)	150			
6	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3)	146			
6	Duke University (11 - 5)	146			
8	University of Maryland (9 - 3)	142			
9	Penn State University (11 - 3)	128			
10	Ohio State University (10 - 3)	98			
11	Lehigh University (12 - 4)	89			
12	University at Albany (11 - 4)	81			
13	Yale University  (9 - 4)	75			
13	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5)	73			
15	Bucknell University (12 - 4)	63			
16	Princeton University (8 - 5)	61			
17	Univ of Pennsylvania (8 - 4)	38			
18	Drexel University (11 - 3)	35			
19	University of Virginia (7 - 8)	25			
20	Villanova University (6 - 7)	15			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: Saint Johns University , Fairfield University , Brown University , Army

MEDIA / INSIDE LACROSSE NIKE POLL  [insidelacrosse.com]
Rank		Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ of North Carolina (12 - 3)	473	20		
2	Cornell University (12 - 2)	410	1		
3	Syracuse University (11 - 3)	378	1		
4	Univ  of Denver (11 - 3)	376			
5	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3)	342			
6	Loyola University (11 - 3)	323			
7	University of Maryland (9 - 3)	308			
8	Duke University (11 - 5)	305			
9	Penn State University (11 - 3)	279			
10	Lehigh University (12 - 4)	215			
11	Ohio State University (10 - 3)	206			
12	University at Albany (11 - 4)	190			
13	Yale University (9 - 4)	154			
14	Drexel University (11 - 3)	137			
15	Princeton University (8 - 5)	132			
16	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5)	128			
17	Bucknell University (12 - 4)	116			
18	University of Penn (8 - 4)	92			
19	Villanova University (6 - 7)	41			
20	Saint Johns University (9 - 4)	29			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: University of Virginia , Fairfield University , Towson University , University of Massachusetts , Army , Georgetown University

See Inside Lacrosse probabilities [www.laxpower.com] of making the tournament [www.laxpower.com] where Cornell is one of the 7 schools with a 100% probability of making the tournament. Also see the Inside Lacrosse computer rankings [www.laxpower.com] that have Cornell first.

Cornell climbs from seventh to fourth in Quint Kessenich's weekly top 20 analysis: [insidelacrosse.com]

Kessenich
4. Cornell — An outstanding effort by Cornell (12-2) on Saturday in a win over Princeton in the Big City Classic. The Tigers don't have a defender who can match strides with Rob Pannell. That became apparent early. Princeton will look to a plan B and C in the Ivy League Semifinals on Friday in Ithaca. The Big Red have one-goal losses to Syracuse and Bucknell. Best wins are against Yale, Penn, UVa and Princeton. Obvious statement of the day: This attack unit poses major match-up issues. I like their energetic poles and first midfield, especially Connor Buczek, the finest player to emerge from Cincinnati. The rest of the gang will determine how far Cornell advances.

In reader comments, one snippy voice asks, "'...the finest player to emerge from Cincinnati.' Exactly what is the competition?"

billhoward
Cornell after the Meadowlands win over Princeton climbs to No. 2 behind North Carolina. Cornell is the only two-loss team; everyone else in the top 20 has three or more. I believe a .500 record is required for at-large consideration, so No. 17
Virginia at 7-8 is out. Virginia has the No. 1 SOS while Cornell was 22nd.


USILA coaches poll [insidelacrosse.com]

Rank		Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ North  Carolina (12 - 3)	200	10		
2	Cornell University (12 - 2)	182			
3	University of Denver (11 - 3)	178			
4	Loyola University (11 - 3)	161			
5	Syracuse University (11 - 3)	150			
6	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3)	146			
6	Duke University (11 - 5)	146			
8	University of Maryland (9 - 3)	142			
9	Penn State University (11 - 3)	128			
10	Ohio State University (10 - 3)	98			
11	Lehigh University (12 - 4)	89			
12	University at Albany (11 - 4)	81			
13	Yale University  (9 - 4)	75			
13	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5)	73			
15	Bucknell University (12 - 4)	63			
16	Princeton University (8 - 5)	61			
17	Univ of Pennsylvania (8 - 4)	38			
18	Drexel University (11 - 3)	35			
19	University of Virginia (7 - 8)	25			
20	Villanova University (6 - 7)	15			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: Saint Johns University , Fairfield University , Brown University , Army

MEDIA / INSIDE LACROSSE NIKE POLL  [insidelacrosse.com]
Rank		Team	Points	1st Place Votes		
1	Univ of North Carolina (12 - 3)	473	20		
2	Cornell University (12 - 2)	410	1		
3	Syracuse University (11 - 3)	378	1		
4	Univ  of Denver (11 - 3)	376			
5	Univ of Notre Dame (10 - 3)	342			
6	Loyola University (11 - 3)	323			
7	University of Maryland (9 - 3)	308			
8	Duke University (11 - 5)	305			
9	Penn State University (11 - 3)	279			
10	Lehigh University (12 - 4)	215			
11	Ohio State University (10 - 3)	206			
12	University at Albany (11 - 4)	190			
13	Yale University (9 - 4)	154			
14	Drexel University (11 - 3)	137			
15	Princeton University (8 - 5)	132			
16	Johns Hopkins Univ (8 - 5)	128			
17	Bucknell University (12 - 4)	116			
18	University of Penn (8 - 4)	92			
19	Villanova University (6 - 7)	41			
20	Saint Johns University (9 - 4)	29			
ALSO RECEIVING VOTES: University of Virginia , Fairfield University , Towson University , University of Massachusetts , Army , Georgetown University

See Inside Lacrosse probabilities [www.laxpower.com] of making the tournament [www.laxpower.com] where Cornell is one of the 7 schools with a 100% probability of making the tournament. Also see the Inside Lacrosse computer rankings [www.laxpower.com] that have Cornell first.

UNC is pretty good, I guess, but good enough to be the (virtually) unamimous #1? Eh.