Lacrosse-Rob Pannell Status

Sorry. I know there is a "key injuries" thread, but I was afraid this might get lost.
Is anyone aware of his progress to date?
Or, if he's lost for the season, any possibility he might be eligible to red-shirt (would he even consider it) next year?

God, I hate the thought of a loss to those OCC grad students!

I tried looking for some news articles about him but couldn't find very much. This is the most recent article that makes mention of his injury. [centralny.ynn.com]

Mark Larson
ITHACA, N.Y. - The Cornell men's lacrosse team has perservered to a 6-1 start this season despite playing the last five games without Tewaaraton favorite Rob Pannell.
Pannell is still not participating in practice sessions and getting around on a motorized scooter after having surgery last month to repair a broken bone in his foot.
The Cornell star is scheduled to meet with a doctor this week while his head coach and teammates try to press on without him.
Ben DeLuca says his return would be a huge boost to the Big Red lineup but he and his team are not counting on that to happen.
The Big Red will try for a fourth straight win Saturday afternoon at Dartmouth.

jtn27
I tried looking for some news articles about him but couldn't find very much. This is the most recent article that makes mention of his injury. [centralny.ynn.com]

Mark Larson
ITHACA, N.Y. - The Cornell men's lacrosse team has perservered to a 6-1 start this season despite playing the last five games without Tewaaraton favorite Rob Pannell.
Pannell is still not participating in practice sessions and getting around on a motorized scooter after having surgery last month to repair a broken bone in his foot.
The Cornell star is scheduled to meet with a doctor this week while his head coach and teammates try to press on without him.
Ben DeLuca says his return would be a huge boost to the Big Red lineup but he and his team are not counting on that to happen.
The Big Red will try for a fourth straight win Saturday afternoon at Dartmouth.

Ouch.
Thanks!

FWIW, A poster on laxpower (who also posts in-depth analysis of all the games) said he heard from a trusted source that Rob was about 4-8 weeks away as of the Denver game (3/20).

semsox
FWIW, A poster on laxpower (who also posts in-depth analysis of all the games) said he heard from a trusted source that Rob was about 4-8 weeks away as of the Denver game (3/20).

I like how it's about 4-8 weeks away. Because 4-8 weeks isn't a vague enough time range on its own.

Josh '99

semsox
FWIW, A poster on laxpower (who also posts in-depth analysis of all the games) said he heard from a trusted source that Rob was about 4-8 weeks away as of the Denver game (3/20).

I like how it's about 4-8 weeks away. Because 4-8 weeks isn't a vague enough time range on its own.

Also, wasn't Pannell about 6 weeks away when he was first injured 4 weeks ago (2 and a half weeks before the Denver game)? So basically nothing has changed.

Johnny 5
Sorry. I know there is a "key injuries" thread, but I was afraid this might get lost.
Is anyone aware of his progress to date?
Or, if he's lost for the season, any possibility he might be eligible to red-shirt (would he even consider it) next year?

God, I hate the thought of a loss to those OCC grad students!

I doubt he can redshirt. League rules don't allow grad students to play. So I think the only way he could "redshirt" would be to take all Incompletes this semester or drop out of school, do the same next fall, and finish his degree in Spring 2013.

OTOH, he was injured at the Army game (3/3), so the end of April will be about two months later. If he can get himself back into game shape by mid-May and finish up with some playing time in the Ivy Championship (5/6) and the NCAA's, we might be reloading come Memorial Day.

One question I see is that the team is doing real well without him and playing a different style (more scoring from midfield) than when was healthy. So how well will he integrate back into the team given the way it's playing?

Not to woof or count chickens, but Syracuse seems to be having an off-year. So that game may not be the monumental clash is has been in recent years. Even without Pannell, the team can beat any team in the country and has yet to reach its peak. (Although let's hope the team can keep up the quality of play we saw during the last quarter at Penn.) With or without Pannell, the Princeton game is going to be tough, as would a rematch in the Ivy tournament. And don't forget Penn had us on the ropes early and Yale took us to overtime. Hopefully we'll continue to play well enough to get an at-large bid to the big dance with or without the Ivy championship.

Josh '99

semsox
FWIW, A poster on laxpower (who also posts in-depth analysis of all the games) said he heard from a trusted source that Rob was about 4-8 weeks away as of the Denver game (3/20).

I like how it's about 4-8 weeks away. Because 4-8 weeks isn't a vague enough time range on its own.

That's a pretty standard way to say it. No one can be sure about recovery. Without the about everyone would expect that at 8 weeks he would be back; I mean people are counting it down now. The idea is that the vast majority of the time it's 4-8, but it could go longer. Unfortunately that's the way it goes in medicine, especially something where there isn't a study of 500 cases giving the graph of time to recovery. (Now I know someone will find such a study, and prove again that I shouldn't talk about parts of medicine that I don't know that well.)

Swampy

Johnny 5
Sorry. I know there is a "key injuries" thread, but I was afraid this might get lost.
Is anyone aware of his progress to date?
Or, if he's lost for the season, any possibility he might be eligible to red-shirt (would he even consider it) next year?

God, I hate the thought of a loss to those OCC grad students!

Not to woof or count chickens, but Syracuse seems to be having an off-year. So that game may not be the monumental clash is has been in recent years. Even without Pannell, the team can beat any team in the country and has yet to reach its peak. (Although let's hope the team can keep up the quality of play we saw during the last quarter at Penn.) With or without Pannell, the Princeton game is going to be tough, as would a rematch in the Ivy tournament. And don't forget Penn had us on the ropes early and Yale took us to overtime. Hopefully we'll continue to play well enough to get an at-large bid to the big dance with or without the Ivy championship.

All very true.
But, I live in an extremely Florida citrus friendly neighborhood.
And, I get tired of having to resort to the rejoinder, "Well, at least all of our guys have high school diplomas!!"
Maybe this year we'll enjoy a little home field advantage??
Digits entwined.

GO RED!!

Johnny 5

Swampy

Johnny 5
Sorry. I know there is a "key injuries" thread, but I was afraid this might get lost.
Is anyone aware of his progress to date?
Or, if he's lost for the season, any possibility he might be eligible to red-shirt (would he even consider it) next year?

God, I hate the thought of a loss to those OCC grad students!

Not to woof or count chickens, but Syracuse seems to be having an off-year. So that game may not be the monumental clash is has been in recent years. Even without Pannell, the team can beat any team in the country and has yet to reach its peak. (Although let's hope the team can keep up the quality of play we saw during the last quarter at Penn.) With or without Pannell, the Princeton game is going to be tough, as would a rematch in the Ivy tournament. And don't forget Penn had us on the ropes early and Yale took us to overtime. Hopefully we'll continue to play well enough to get an at-large bid to the big dance with or without the Ivy championship.

All very true.
But, I live in an extremely Florida citrus friendly neighborhood.
And, I get tired of having to resort to the rejoinder, "Well, at least all of our guys have high school diplomas!!"
Maybe this year we'll enjoy a little home field advantage??
Digits entwined.

GO RED!!

Since I live in Syracuse, I guess I also live "in an extremely Florida citrus friendly neighborhood". But I have to take issue with your characterization of OCC. There are a number of students who go there for 1-2 years and then transfer. In fact a very prominent Cornell lax player from the 80s went there and transfered to CU. He couldn't have been accepted without it.

It is true that some students go there to finish off what they should have done in high school, but a number of students in my daughters graduating class at Jamesville-Dewitt are going there to save money. Most SU lacrosse players are reasonable students and end up graduating from SU. The same can't be said of their BB players, and I have no idea about FB.

I'm not saying that everyone who goes and transfers could have been accepted at SU as a freshman but there are good reasons to go, even after getting your high school diploma. Not all students can afford a full 4 years tuition, and community colleges offer a good alternative.

Jim Hyla

Johnny 5

Swampy

Johnny 5
Sorry. I know there is a "key injuries" thread, but I was afraid this might get lost.
Is anyone aware of his progress to date?
Or, if he's lost for the season, any possibility he might be eligible to red-shirt (would he even consider it) next year?

God, I hate the thought of a loss to those OCC grad students!

Not to woof or count chickens, but Syracuse seems to be having an off-year. So that game may not be the monumental clash is has been in recent years. Even without Pannell, the team can beat any team in the country and has yet to reach its peak. (Although let's hope the team can keep up the quality of play we saw during the last quarter at Penn.) With or without Pannell, the Princeton game is going to be tough, as would a rematch in the Ivy tournament. And don't forget Penn had us on the ropes early and Yale took us to overtime. Hopefully we'll continue to play well enough to get an at-large bid to the big dance with or without the Ivy championship.

All very true.
But, I live in an extremely Florida citrus friendly neighborhood.
And, I get tired of having to resort to the rejoinder, "Well, at least all of our guys have high school diplomas!!"
Maybe this year we'll enjoy a little home field advantage??
Digits entwined.

GO RED!!

Since I live in Syracuse, I guess I also live "in an extremely Florida citrus friendly neighborhood". But I have to take issue with your characterization of OCC. There are a number of students who go there for 1-2 years and then transfer. In fact a very prominent Cornell lax player from the 80s went there and transfered to CU. He couldn't have been accepted without it.

It is true that some students go there to finish off what they should have done in high school, but a number of students in my daughters graduating class at Jamesville-Dewitt are going there to save money. Most SU lacrosse players are reasonable students and end up graduating from SU. The same can't be said of their BB players, and I have no idea about FB.

I'm not saying that everyone who goes and transfers could have been accepted at SU as a freshman but there are good reasons to go, even after getting your high school diploma. Not all students can afford a full 4 years tuition, and community colleges offer a good alternative.

Jim,
I agree with much of what you say regarding the reasons why good students would choose a community college to continue their education. I'm also sure that any number of former OCC students have gone on to very successful academic and/or athletic careers.

My nephew was the captain of our local HS lacrosse team and now attends OCC. Since he now "hangs" with many OCC lax players I only know from his tales of the questionable scholastic practices of some. But, I do not wish to paint them all with the same social brush.

However, it has always frustrated me that Syracuse, & other scholarship D-1 schools, can find any number of ways to pad their rosters with kids that stretch the meaning of the term "student". But, perhaps the lacrosse team is not the most egregious example.

Mea culpa.

Jim Hyla

Josh '99

semsox
FWIW, A poster on laxpower (who also posts in-depth analysis of all the games) said he heard from a trusted source that Rob was about 4-8 weeks away as of the Denver game (3/20).

I like how it's about 4-8 weeks away. Because 4-8 weeks isn't a vague enough time range on its own.

That's a pretty standard way to say it. No one can be sure about recovery. Without the about everyone would expect that at 8 weeks he would be back; I mean people are counting it down now. The idea is that the vast majority of the time it's 4-8, but it could go longer. Unfortunately that's the way it goes in medicine, especially something where there isn't a study of 500 cases giving the graph of time to recovery. (Now I know someone will find such a study, and prove again that I shouldn't talk about parts of medicine that I don't know that well.)

OK, OK, my smartassery bows to your actual understanding of the terminology.

Does anyone know Rob's plans and if that includes possible return this season? The team is really coming together and the return of Rob would seemingly give them a good opportunity to do well in the NCAA championship playoffs. Laxpower posters, Inside Lacrosse and the Journal have not provided any source with any expected definitive plan ...even with a caveat such as "if goes well".

ESPN1160 had a podcast with Barry Leonard from this past Tuesday prior to the Syracuse game. They had a fairly lengthy discussion near the end regarding Rob's future, and as someone who spends alot of time with the team on the trips and stuff, Barry was fairly adamant that even Rob doesn't quite know what the rest of the season will entail. While his progression from the scooter to seemingly comfortably walking in the boot is encouraging, I think this really might just be a case of no one really knows.

semsox
ESPN1160 had a podcast with Barry Leonard from this past Tuesday prior to the Syracuse game. They had a fairly lengthy discussion near the end regarding Rob's future, and as someone who spends alot of time with the team on the trips and stuff, Barry was fairly adamant that even Rob doesn't quite know what the rest of the season will entail. While his progression from the scooter to seemingly comfortably walking in the boot is encouraging, I think this really might just be a case of no one really knows.

The original estimate was that this sort of injury usually takes 4-8 weeks to heal. I put next week's Brown game at 7 weeks, and Princeton at 8. So if he's not healed by then, albeit perhaps not in game condition, I wouldn't count on him for the rest of the season.

But then, what do I know? Maybe one of the MD's on the board can shed some light on the topic.

Swampy

semsox
ESPN1160 had a podcast with Barry Leonard from this past Tuesday prior to the Syracuse game. They had a fairly lengthy discussion near the end regarding Rob's future, and as someone who spends alot of time with the team on the trips and stuff, Barry was fairly adamant that even Rob doesn't quite know what the rest of the season will entail. While his progression from the scooter to seemingly comfortably walking in the boot is encouraging, I think this really might just be a case of no one really knows.

The original estimate was that this sort of injury usually takes 4-8 weeks to heal. I put next week's Brown game at 7 weeks, and Princeton at 8. So if he's not healed by then, albeit perhaps not in game condition, I wouldn't count on him for the rest of the season.

But then, what do I know? Maybe one of the MD's on the board can shed some light on the topic.

Not this one. Look there is no way for anyone, other than who is taking care of him, to know. Too many variables with the human body. All we can do is sit and wait.

I can't remember where I heard it - but it was said that they were looking to have Rob on the field for a few minutes during the Brown game and if he came out of it o.k. then he would be a go for the Princeton game and beyond.

Cop at Lynah
I can't remember where I heard it - but it was said that they were looking to have Rob on the field for a few minutes during the Brown game and if he came out of it o.k. then he would be a go for the Princeton game and beyond.

Seems like an odd strategy for the coaching staff. It it were me, I'd keep RP's status secret until I'm ready to use him for real in a game. I'd use scrimmages during practices to tell if he's ready. The only reason(s) I'd ease him back in over the course of two or more games are (1) he needs time to get back into game shape or (2) there's some medical advice against over-doing it. Otherwise, I'd keep opposing coaches guessing: let them prepare for two different possibilities, as Rex Ryan said about how he intends to use Sanchez & Tebow on the Jets.

Swampy

Cop at Lynah
I can't remember where I heard it - but it was said that they were looking to have Rob on the field for a few minutes during the Brown game and if he came out of it o.k. then he would be a go for the Princeton game and beyond.

Seems like an odd strategy for the coaching staff. It it were me, I'd keep RP's status secret until I'm ready to use him for real in a game. I'd use scrimmages during practices to tell if he's ready. The only reason(s) I'd ease him back in over the course of two or more games are (1) he needs time to get back into game shape or (2) there's some medical advice against over-doing it. Otherwise, I'd keep opposing coaches guessing: let them prepare for two different possibilities, as Rex Ryan said about how he intends to use Sanchez & Tebow on the Jets.

Do we really want our coaching staff imitating Rex Ryan and the Jets?

Swampy

Cop at Lynah
I can't remember where I heard it - but it was said that they were looking to have Rob on the field for a few minutes during the Brown game and if he came out of it o.k. then he would be a go for the Princeton game and beyond.

Seems like an odd strategy for the coaching staff. It it were me, I'd keep RP's status secret until I'm ready to use him for real in a game. I'd use scrimmages during practices to tell if he's ready. The only reason(s) I'd ease him back in over the course of two or more games are (1) he needs time to get back into game shape or (2) there's some medical advice against over-doing it. Otherwise, I'd keep opposing coaches guessing: let them prepare for two different possibilities, as Rex Ryan said about how he intends to use Sanchez & Tebow on the Jets.

Even if RP went in for a few minutes of the Brown game, I doubt that Princeton would know for sure whether he was going to be able to go against them - and even if they did, I doubt they'd know whether he was going to be 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%, etc. Seeing him for just a couple of minutes against Brown might actually *increase* their uncertainty.

[insidelacrosse.com]

Rob back a practice, probably not going to play Saturday. All in all, good news.

Ronald '09
[insidelacrosse.com]

Rob back a practice, probably not going to play Saturday. All in all, good news.

Yes, there is a God, Alice!!

still interesting since he cant RS and play as a graduating player next year, would he have to withdraw from classes to even try to play next year?

upprdeck
still interesting since he cant RS and play as a graduating player next year, would he have to withdraw from classes to even try to play next year?

I'm pretty sure he would. Those were definitely the rules in place when I was there (early 90s).

I know I've told this story before, but I had an outside scholarship that was only good toward my undergrad tuition. I could have graduated a semester early, but I was planning on sticking around for an MEng anyway. I talked over the options with the Registrar and the Engineering admin, and the only way I could stay registered as an undergrad for my 8th semester (to keep my scholarship) was to make sure to put off one required class until that semester. Otherwise, as soon as I fulfilled all the requirements, I would automatically graduate and not be allowed to register as an undergrad. I'm sure if an athlete were in that position, he would have to do the same thing, since grad students can't compete in Ivy athletics.

Robert is back. He's rebuilt. He's angry.

Lacrosse world, you have disappointed me for the last time.

Hillel Hoffmann
Robert is back. He's rebuilt. He's angry.

Lacrosse world, you have disappointed me for the last time.

He's been rebuilt? Should we start calling him "Robot Pannell"?

what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Yeah, Jordan Kary of the hockey team is an example.

But, as was covered when Rob first got hurt, if he missed the rest of the year, he would be eligible to play for a non-Ivy League team next year if the NCAA granted him a medical redshirt. Since he's practicing now, it looks likely that he will play again this year though, so that would make the whole discussion academic.

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

David Harding

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

Johnny 5

David Harding

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

Apostate! Nothing so quick and painless as seppuku.

I sentence you an endless series of Prelims each in a subject that is very important to your future. For some reason the Big Red tape did not drop you early in the semester even though you thought you had dropped the class. Now you must pass or some unspecified bad thing will happen. The Prelim is passed out and there are some marks on the paper you do not recognize. (Oh and by the way you must take the test in your underwear)

Towerroad

Johnny 5

David Harding

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

Apostate! Nothing so quick and painless as seppuku.

I sentence you an endless series of Prelims each in a subject that is very important to your future. For some reason the Big Red tape did not drop you early in the semester even though you thought you had dropped the class. Now you must pass or some unspecified bad thing will happen. The Prelim is passed out and there are some marks on the paper you do not recognize. (Oh and by the way you must take the test in your underwear)

Aha, wise master.....you have that recurring nightmare, also??

so the ivy league which prides itself on kids going to school says kids who graduate in 3 years can not play a 4th ? this is far different than playing a 5th year with a RS or not graduating in 4..

seems kind of backwards towards the goals of school and student athlete.

in doing some googling it says the rule says no "5th year", also the rule is in place because columbia has no grad school this cant compete on equal terms.

so really the rule is more you have 4 years, no RS without special waiver, nothing to do with graduating, so much as they expect you to be done in 4 thus graduated..

upprdeck
also the rule is in place because columbia has no grad school this cant compete on equal terms.

Columbia has no grad school?

Al DeFlorio

upprdeck
also the rule is in place because columbia has no grad school this cant compete on equal terms.

Columbia has no grad school?

Nope. They have no grad school.

Johnny 5

Towerroad

Johnny 5

David Harding

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

Apostate! Nothing so quick and painless as seppuku.

I sentence you an endless series of Prelims each in a subject that is very important to your future. For some reason the Big Red tape did not drop you early in the semester even though you thought you had dropped the class. Now you must pass or some unspecified bad thing will happen. The Prelim is passed out and there are some marks on the paper you do not recognize. (Oh and by the way you must take the test in your underwear)

Aha, wise master.....you have that recurring nightmare, also??

Not any more but it showed up once and a while for about 20 years after graduating. I think it is a common dream. Regardless, I sentence you to it for eternity for you even thinking the unthinkable. I was at the game of which we shall not speak

Johnny 5

David Harding

committing
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4 commit year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

FWIW, RP has gone on record saying he will not play for another university.

But don't let this discourage you from committing seppuku because of your evil thoughts.

Seems unlikely that Pannell will be back for Princeton.

Ben DeLuca said @Inside_Lacrosse report that Pannell has returned to practice is not correct. Says rehab is progressing but not practicing

— Brian Delaney (@BDelaney_1160) April 21, 2012

Towerroad

Johnny 5

Towerroad

Johnny 5

David Harding

upprdeck
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4th year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

Apostate! Nothing so quick and painless as seppuku.

I sentence you an endless series of Prelims each in a subject that is very important to your future. For some reason the Big Red tape did not drop you early in the semester even though you thought you had dropped the class. Now you must pass or some unspecified bad thing will happen. The Prelim is passed out and there are some marks on the paper you do not recognize. (Oh and by the way you must take the test in your underwear)

Aha, wise master.....you have that recurring nightmare, also??

Not any more but it showed up once and a while for about 20 years after graduating. I think it is a common dream. Regardless, I sentence you to it for eternity for you even thinking the unthinkable. I was at the game of which we shall not speak

The picture below is rumored to be that of Cornell's #3, practicing to defeat "the team that shall not be named".

Swampy

Johnny 5

David Harding

committing
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4 commit year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

FWIW, RP has gone on record saying he will not play for another university.

But don't let this discourage you from committing seppuku because of your evil thoughts.

I would think a chance to play with his brother at UVA might be tempting.

ithacat

Swampy

Johnny 5

David Harding

committing
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4 commit year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

FWIW, RP has gone on record saying he will not play for another university.

But don't let this discourage you from committing seppuku because of your evil thoughts.

I would think a chance to play with his brother at UVA might be tempting.

More tempting than the chance to go pro?

jtn27

ithacat

Swampy

Johnny 5

David Harding

committing
what happens to kids that graduate in 3 years? are they told they cant play a 4 commit year?

Right, not at Cornell. But they can go to a non-Ivy for graduate school and play there for a year.

Wow! Maybe he could play for Syracuse next year?!

I will now commit seppuku.

FWIW, RP has gone on record saying he will not play for another university.

But don't let this discourage you from committing seppuku because of your evil thoughts.

I would think a chance to play with his brother at UVA might be tempting.

More tempting than the chance to go pro?

I shut my sarcasm detector down much earlier tonight, so I can't really get a read if you're serious, but lacrosse is one of those sports that is MUCH more glamorous at the college level than the pros. It's the college stars who dominate the magazine covers. Top teams get to play in front of 40,000+ on championship weekend with a national TV audience, while the all-time record for MLL is about 22,000. But the biggest factor is money. The minimum pro salary is $6000. Average is $16000. Top MLL players can make $30000 before endorsements, and just about all of them have to find 2nd jobs...many lax players have alumni connections in finance where they can pull in 10x what they can make in professional lacrosse. It's simply not worth it to "go pro" like it is for the elite in football, basketball, hockey, & baseball.

RichH

jtn27
More tempting than the chance to go pro?

I shut my sarcasm detector down much earlier tonight, so I can't really get a read if you're serious, but lacrosse is one of those sports that is MUCH more glamorous at the college level than the pros. It's the college stars who dominate the magazine covers. Top teams get to play in front of 40,000+ on championship weekend with a national TV audience, while the all-time record for MLL is about 22,000. But the biggest factor is money. The minimum pro salary is $6000. Average is $16000. Top MLL players can make $30000 before endorsements, and just about all of them have to find 2nd jobs...many lax players have alumni connections in finance where they can pull in 10x what they can make in professional lacrosse. It's simply not worth it to "go pro" like it is for the elite in football, basketball, hockey, & baseball.

It was sort of a serious question. I know that MLL players don't make much money, but I figured some money is better than no money. Also, where would he face better competition? Do all the best players go pro or do most take higher paying jobs?

You're young, you've got the rest of your life to make money, so why not play MLL a couple seasons and see how good you are at the next level.

billhoward
You're young, you've got the rest of your life to make money, so why not play MLL a couple seasons and see how good you are at the next level.

What's the point when you can see how good you are at the highest exposure level? Because making $15000 a year when you aren't in school is a pretty miserable existence? You're young, and you're in college, with a school giving you more in a scholarship/aid than you could make in a pro league.

If you can name one...*ONE* single player to not max out their NCAA eligibility in lacrosse (i.e. leave early for the pros), I'll edit my post and replace it with the words to Princeton's alma mater. It doesn't happen. The NCAA is the top level, much like college football was MUCH more highly regarded in the 1920s and 30s than the NFL.

Edit, thanks to Chris '03:

Tune every heart and every voice,
Bid every care withdraw;
Let all with one accord rejoice,
In praise of Old Nassau.
In praise of Old Nassau we sing,
Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Our hearts will give while we shall live,
Three cheers for Old Nassau.

RichH

billhoward
You're young, you've got the rest of your life to make money, so why not play MLL a couple seasons and see how good you are at the next level.

What's the point when you can see how good you are at the highest exposure level? Because making $15000 a year when you aren't in school is a pretty miserable existence? You're young, and you're in college, with a school giving you more in a scholarship/aid than you could make in a pro league.

If you can name one...*ONE* single player to not max out their NCAA eligibility in lacrosse (i.e. leave early for the pros), I'll edit my post and replace it with the words to Princeton's alma mater. It doesn't happen. The NCAA is the top level, much like college football was MUCH more highly regarded in the 1920s and 30s than the NFL.

Though I totally agree with you, I'll take that challenge:

UHa player leaves early for NLL: [www.knighthawks.net]

Here you can get it from the horse's mouth, so to speak:

ESPN U
ESPN's Quint Kessenich hits on the biggest storyline in college lacrosse as he talks to injured attackman Rob Pannell, the reigning Enners Award winner from Cornell who hasn't played since March 3.

Chris '03

RichH

billhoward
You're young, you've got the rest of your life to make money, so why not play MLL a couple seasons and see how good you are at the next level.

What's the point when you can see how good you are at the highest exposure level? Because making $15000 a year when you aren't in school is a pretty miserable existence? You're young, and you're in college, with a school giving you more in a scholarship/aid than you could make in a pro league.

If you can name one...*ONE* single player to not max out their NCAA eligibility in lacrosse (i.e. leave early for the pros), I'll edit my post and replace it with the words to Princeton's alma mater. It doesn't happen. The NCAA is the top level, much like college football was MUCH more highly regarded in the 1920s and 30s than the NFL.

Though I totally agree with you, I'll take that challenge:

UHa player leaves early for NLL: [www.knighthawks.net]

And that's why I made the "prize" easy to fulfill, as distasteful as it is...I figured there had to be someone. Interesting that Glaves went #2 in the entry draft. I wonder what the "uncertainty" was at UHart, and what specifically the reasons were that he didn't transfer. The last paragraph notes that he's currently working to complete a degree.

RichH
Tune every heart and every voice,
Bid every care withdraw;
Let all with one accord rejoice,
In praise of Old Nassau.
In praise of Old Nassau we sing,
Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!
Our hearts will give while we shall live,
Three cheers for Old Nassau.

Thank you Princeton for cheering on my home county on Long Island. We appreciate it very much.

Here's a link to an article about Pannell's return.

Along with all other Big Red fans whose hearts are breaking because of Pannell's injury, we should never forget that Pannell is the one Big Red fan whose heart has broken the most. The young man is a real class act. We should all be proud; he should be proud most of all.

Inside Lacrosse says

Inside Lacrosse
One notable absence among the young group [on the Long Island Lizards] is the No. 1 overall pick, Cornell's Rob Pannell. While the status of his foot injury rehab from earlier in the collegiate season is unclear, Spallina [the new coach of the Long Island Lizards] said that Pannell is waiting to hear from the NCAA about possible additional eligibility. If granted, Pannell may choose to forgo the MLL season and re-enter the college ranks next year.

I think a coach in this situation is a pretty reliable source. Now if Pannell wants to play for Cornell next year, all he'd have to do to preserve undergraduate status is take enough Incompletes not to graduate. If the NCAA turns his request down (doubtful), he could finish by the end of summer.

The BIG issue is the Ivy League. I think the league would be utterly stupid to stand in Pannell's way if he wants to play the extra year. What future athlete would choose an Ivy if Pannell becomes the poster boy for broken dreams due to Ivy rules? It's not as if he was some trumped up "medical" redshirt as a freshman who some coach schemed to have later, when he was bigger and stronger. By all accounts, he's a serious student and a fine young man.

What purpose is served if Pannell decides to play an extra year, but the Ivies turn him down, and he goes somewhere else?

Swampy
The BIG issue is the Ivy League. I think the league would be utterly stupid to stand in Pannell's way if he wants to play the extra year. What future athlete would choose an Ivy if Pannell becomes the poster boy for broken dreams due to Ivy rules? It's not as if he was some trumped up "medical" redshirt as a freshman who some coach schemed to have later, when he was bigger and stronger. By all accounts, he's a serious student and a fine young man.

What purpose is served if Pannell decides to play an extra year, but the Ivies turn him down, and he goes somewhere else?

I think this is one of the more interesting cases the Ivy League has probably had put before it. Pannell is probably one of the, if not the most, high profile athlete to come up for this type of review (in a sport that the Ivies are still nationally relevant no less). That being said, in the truest sense of Ivy League standards and putting academics first, one would think the League would frown on a second semester senior on track to graduate purposefully putting off graduation during the last semester in order to maintain athletic eligibility. The only thing giving me pause is the fact that he's a senior, as I think the red-shirt would have been a slam dunk in any of his first three years.

semsox

Swampy
The BIG issue is the Ivy League. I think the league would be utterly stupid to stand in Pannell's way if he wants to play the extra year. What future athlete would choose an Ivy if Pannell becomes the poster boy for broken dreams due to Ivy rules? It's not as if he was some trumped up "medical" redshirt as a freshman who some coach schemed to have later, when he was bigger and stronger. By all accounts, he's a serious student and a fine young man.

What purpose is served if Pannell decides to play an extra year, but the Ivies turn him down, and he goes somewhere else?

I think this is one of the more interesting cases the Ivy League has probably had put before it. Pannell is probably one of the, if not the most, high profile athlete to come up for this type of review (in a sport that the Ivies are still nationally relevant no less). That being said, in the truest sense of Ivy League standards and putting academics first, one would think the League would frown on a second semester senior on track to graduate purposefully putting off graduation during the last semester in order to maintain athletic eligibility. The only thing giving me pause is the fact that he's a senior, as I think the red-shirt would have been a slam dunk in any of his first three years.

You're probably right about the first three years. But the only reason he'd put off graduation now is to qualify under Ivy League rules by not being a graduate student. As far as the NCAA is concerned, he can play as a graduate student if they grant him another year of eligibility. So instead of him manipulating Ivy rules, the rules would be the reason he put off graduation.

It seems to me that each petition for medical red shirt status has to be judged individually. Especially in the Ivies, there just aren't that many of them, and each case is almost by definition unique.

Suppose you had a kid who skipped a grade or two before being admitted to an Ivy and then asked for another year after they sat out a year due to injury; suppose further, that this kid majored in theoretical physics and was going to use the extra year to start on a doctorate in the subject. I'm the first to put academics above all else (see my rants earlier this year about the betrayal of A.D. White's legacy), but I don't see how giving the kid an extra year in a situation like this makes any sacrifice of academic quality.

I know Pannell already played a PG year at Deerfield, so his situation is not analogous. But what I'm saying is that his case should be treated on its own merits rather than according to some one-size-fits-all rule. If his academic record and academic plan are of serious quality, that should be enough. I believe he's a business major. Suppose he enrolled next year in the MBA program. Given the quality of Cornell's B-School, I don't see how this would be detrimental to academics.

Swampy
Inside Lacrosse says

Inside Lacrosse
One notable absence among the young group [on the Long Island Lizards] is the No. 1 overall pick, Cornell's Rob Pannell. While the status of his foot injury rehab from earlier in the collegiate season is unclear, Spallina [the new coach of the Long Island Lizards] said that Pannell is waiting to hear from the NCAA about possible additional eligibility. If granted, Pannell may choose to forgo the MLL season and re-enter the college ranks next year.

I think a coach in this situation is a pretty reliable source. Now if Pannell wants to play for Cornell next year, all he'd have to do to preserve undergraduate status is take enough Incompletes not to graduate. If the NCAA turns his request down (doubtful), he could finish by the end of summer.

The BIG issue is the Ivy League. I think the league would be utterly stupid to stand in Pannell's way if he wants to play the extra year. What future athlete would choose an Ivy if Pannell becomes the poster boy for broken dreams due to Ivy rules? It's not as if he was some trumped up "medical" redshirt as a freshman who some coach schemed to have later, when he was bigger and stronger. By all accounts, he's a serious student and a fine young man.

What purpose is served if Pannell decides to play an extra year, but the Ivies turn him down, and he goes somewhere else?

But unfortunately, if Rob wants to graduate now, "re-enter the college ranks" refers to a non-Ivy future, unless his situation causes an immediate change in Ivy regulations.

It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Or get a parking ticket - easier than having to actually trek to the library.

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Does anyone else from the early 70's remember the douche that took out a reserve book from Uris and kept it out for most of the term in order to screw his fellow classmates? His defense to the action was that he asked the librarian if there was any penalty beyond a fine for keeping the book past its due date.

If I remember correctly he never had the opportunity to graduate.

Robb

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Or get a parking ticket - easier than having to actually trek to the library.

Maybe he hasn't taken his swim test?

(EDIT: One of my friends racked up enough parking tickets that he was sent a letter saying that his car would be towed on sight even if it was parked legally.)

Don't freak out if you say Pannell in the procession. It doesn't mean he's actually graduating. Though I guess it means his foot is working.

Weder

Robb

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Or get a parking ticket - easier than having to actually trek to the library.

Maybe he hasn't taken his swim test?

(EDIT: One of my friends racked up enough parking tickets that he was sent a letter saying that his car would be towed on sight even if it was parked legally.)

I have that parking t-shirt!
Hey, it's worth a shot!!

Weder

Robb

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Or get a parking ticket - easier than having to actually trek to the library.

Maybe he hasn't taken his swim test?

(EDIT: One of my friends racked up enough parking tickets that he was sent a letter saying that his car would be towed on sight even if it was parked legally.)

When I was in school, the university announced that Ed Marinaro would be coming back for one of the "honoring the football team of...' tributes during a game at Schoellkopf. The Ithaca police chief immediately announcd that Ed had so many outstanding parking tickets from his tenure as a student that he would be jailed if he showed up (or some such hyperbole).

As I understand it, some rich alum (other than Ed), paid the tickets so he could show up.

Just reported on the Loyola-Notre Dame semifinal telecast: Pannell is not graduating this spring and will apply to the NCAA for an additional year of eligibility.

Pannell did withdraw and is applying for eligibility.

So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Al DeFlorio
Pannell did withdraw and is applying for eligibility.

Yes, Sally....there is a God!!

Johnny 5

Al DeFlorio
Pannell did withdraw and is applying for eligibility.

Yes, Sally....there is a God!!

Sally? I am pretty sure that the original quote was " Yes, Duke, there is a God."

Roy 82

Johnny 5

Al DeFlorio
Pannell did withdraw and is applying for eligibility.

Yes, Sally....there is a God!!

Sally? I am pretty sure that the original quote was " Yes, Duke, there is a God."

I thought it was "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

Extra, extra! Read all about it!

Swampy

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

If the NCAA gave an extra year of eligibility to the entire Duke team, and if the Ivy League gave an extra year to Jeff Hamilton in hockey...if there's any dispute with this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

We'll see. I have no doubt that the Ivy League will find a way to shoot themselves in the foot (feet?).

RichH

Swampy

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

If the NCAA gave an extra year of eligibility to the entire Duke team, and if the Ivy League gave an extra year to Jeff Hamilton in hockey...if there's any dispute with this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

Roy Kerling played hockey for Cornell from 1977 to 1982 (inactive for the '78-'79 season), so there is a precedent.

Johnny 5

RichH

Swampy

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

If the NCAA gave an extra year of eligibility to the entire Duke team, and if the Ivy League gave an extra year to Jeff Hamilton in hockey...if there's any dispute with this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

Roy Kerling played hockey for Cornell from 1977 to 1982 (inactive for the '78-'79 season), so there is a precedent.

Steve Bosak missed a year with injury and will wrestle again next spring as a "fifth year."

Al DeFlorio

Johnny 5

RichH

Swampy

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

If the NCAA gave an extra year of eligibility to the entire Duke team, and if the Ivy League gave an extra year to Jeff Hamilton in hockey...if there's any dispute with this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

Roy Kerling played hockey for Cornell from 1977 to 1982 (inactive for the '78-'79 season), so there is a precedent.

Steve Bosak missed a year with injury and will wrestle again next spring as a "fifth year."

Vinnie Auger.

Johnny 5

RoyKerling-1.jpg

Rob, use fall semester to grow one of those retro porn star mustaches and celebrate the era of Cornell's last NCAA champsionships.

That article seems promising that the Ivy league will give him anoher year, I dont think there is much to worry about with the NCAA screwing this up

phillysportsfan
I dont think there is much to worry about with the NCAA screwing this up

I don't think this is ever the case

semsox

phillysportsfan
I dont think there is much to worry about with the NCAA screwing this up

I don't think this is ever the case

Usually I would agree but the NCAA would have let him play as a grad student without any issue, he only had to not graduate because of stupid Ivy league rules

semsox

phillysportsfan
I dont think there is much to worry about with the NCAA screwing this up

I don't think this is ever the case

Thank you in speaking for all of eLynah. Kudos to Philly for the perfect setup.

If Rob Pannell really does come back next year, that truly is leadership by the captain. He'll be starting adult life two years after most classmates (taking a PG year before Cornell and then the fifth year). Plus the extra semester of tuition at Cornell.

Plus a couple of the HS lax parents in our town were all saying to me, "Cornell fifth year? Not a chance. He'll be with his brother at Virginia." Let's hope the team reloads with middies and perhaps a strong goaltender candidate so Cornell can make a serious run.

billhoward
If Rob Pannell really does come back next year, that truly is leadership by the captain. He'll be starting adult life two years after most classmates (taking a PG year before Cornell and then the fifth year). Plus the extra semester of tuition at Cornell.

Plus a couple of the HS lax parents in our town were all saying to me, "Cornell fifth year? Not a chance. He'll be with his brother at Virginia." Let's hope the team reloads with middies and perhaps a strong goaltender candidate so Cornell can make a serious run.

I think we have nine recruits lined up for next year. Four are middies, including one LSM. Two are defenders, and one is a goalie. I'd like to see some guys who were on the bench this year develop & blossom next year. If 1-2 frosh get regular playing time, I'd be happy. We lose eight seniors, not counting RP. We have 15 juniors becoming seniors.

BTW, Loyola loses only seven seniors and a graduate student. The grad student, Eric Lusby, is their top scorer. The next three scorers are sophomores. This year is not always a good predictor of next (cf. e.g., UVA), but on paper Loyola looks like the preseason #1.

Johnny 5

RichH

Swampy

phillysportsfan
So will the league give him another year? By withdrawing does he just forfeit all the credits from this semester?

Certainly good news for Big Red fans. I'm sure he, his family, his coaches, the administration, his professors, etc. all worked together to figure out the best way to do this.

Let's just hope the NCAA & Ivy League do the right thing. He's willing to sacrifice so much for this. So now please give him the chance.

If the NCAA gave an extra year of eligibility to the entire Duke team, and if the Ivy League gave an extra year to Jeff Hamilton in hockey...if there's any dispute with this, I'll lose my fucking mind.

Roy Kerling played hockey for Cornell from 1977 to 1982 (inactive for the '78-'79 season), so there is a precedent.

RoyKerling-1.jpg

As I recall, Kerling didn't make grades one semester and was "asked" to take a leave of absence.

I'd have to check my back issues of the Lacrosse Annual(Yup, I have them all) but its probably not a bad bet that EVERY year the previous season's champion was the preseason Number One.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Weder

Robb

billhoward

jtn27
It's probably too late for him to take an incomplete. Finals are over. If he hadn't already made the decision not to graduate before finals, I think he has to graduate.

Don't pay the library fines. That's a worse offense than plagiarism.

Or get a parking ticket - easier than having to actually trek to the library.

Maybe he hasn't taken his swim test?

(EDIT: One of my friends racked up enough parking tickets that he was sent a letter saying that his car would be towed on sight even if it was parked legally.)

When I was in school, the university announced that Ed Marinaro would be coming back for one of the "honoring the football team of...' tributes during a game at Schoellkopf. The Ithaca police chief immediately announcd that Ed had so many outstanding parking tickets from his tenure as a student that he would be jailed if he showed up (or some such hyperbole).

As I understand it, some rich alum (other than Ed), paid the tickets so he could show up.

Another prominent case was Allen Funt, as reported in The Cornell Chronicle

At first the graduate was reluctant to return to the Ithaca campus, in part, he said, because he still owed his alma mater for parking fines.

His host arranged to have the distinguished scofflaw's fines forgiven, and Maas had one other surprise. When Funt's car arrived on campus, white-gloved traffic officers motioned him into a reserved parking spot -- directly in front of the lecture hall.

Allen Funt hesitated. And smiled. For once, he was not on Candid Camera.

Not too earth shattering but Rob is apparently "confident" the league will approve his fifth year.

[centralny.ynn.com]

Chris '03
Not too earth shattering but Rob is apparently "confident" the league will approve his fifth year.

[centralny.ynn.com]

If the league forces him to enroll at Virginia I will start cheering for Syracuse.
Then Hell will freeze over.