Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by billhoward
Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: November 09, 2008 08:25AM
Penn State is my adoptive big time football school to cheer for - it's in the region, the coach is an Ivy League alum, decent academics, just about the only standard bearer of eastern football excellence except the occasional foray into the top 20 for a year at a time by BC, Pitt, Syracuse, now Rutgers. My hope was that:
- Penn State would finish the year unbeaten. Which didn't happen with the loss to Iowa Saturday.
- Penn State would make it to the BCS title game. Which might not have happened because there always seems to be two teams ahead of Penn State in the BCS polls.
- Give Joe Paterno a reason to leave without appearing to be pushed.
Has any other top twenty football team been shafted more in the polls over the coach's tenure than Penn State? Another reason to see a Cornell connection.
- Penn State would finish the year unbeaten. Which didn't happen with the loss to Iowa Saturday.
- Penn State would make it to the BCS title game. Which might not have happened because there always seems to be two teams ahead of Penn State in the BCS polls.
- Give Joe Paterno a reason to leave without appearing to be pushed.
Has any other top twenty football team been shafted more in the polls over the coach's tenure than Penn State? Another reason to see a Cornell connection.
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: ugarte (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: November 09, 2008 06:56PM
The Big Ten is a weak conference; the annual drilling of Ohio State in the title game has become boring. Even if Penn State ran the table this was the wrong year to think that the team was getting screwed.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.mis.prserv.net)
Date: November 09, 2008 07:15PM
I'm a PSU fan, too (My dad and uncle are grads). So the loss last night was tough.
But their strength of schedule is weak. I saw it's something like 23rd strongest of the BCS teams. This is mostly because the Big ten is weak, but they schedule some serious cupcakes before the Big Ten schedule starts, too. (Coastal Carolina? Temple? Please!)
But their strength of schedule is weak. I saw it's something like 23rd strongest of the BCS teams. This is mostly because the Big ten is weak, but they schedule some serious cupcakes before the Big Ten schedule starts, too. (Coastal Carolina? Temple? Please!)
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: November 13, 2008 10:15AM
As of November 11:
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2008 10:16AM by jtwcornell91.
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: ugarte (---.z75-46-65.customer.algx.net)
Date: November 13, 2008 10:53AM
The Big XII is that much stronger than the rest of the NCAA? They must have an amazing OOC record.
And, wow, to see two Pac-10 (or any BCS conference) teams at the bottom of the chart is shocking.
And, wow, to see two Pac-10 (or any BCS conference) teams at the bottom of the chart is shocking.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: RichH (155.104.37.---)
Date: November 13, 2008 11:07AM
jtwcornell91
some gigantic image nonsense
GAH! Must you hijack EVERY thread in which someone mentions a sporting result with your unwieldy graphical nerd-pictures? Especially since it throws off my browser scroll width, load time, and in this case, it covers up our championship graphic on the right side. Oddly enough, the google ad-box forces itself on top and some loser team is covered up by "1 rule to flat abs."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2008 11:09AM by RichH.
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.net)
Date: November 13, 2008 11:14AM
And what can we learn from this? If you stick to your guns and keep the nickname "Red Raiders" you become awesome at football. If you cave and change it to "Raiders" you never win anything, like Colgate.
(Apparently "Mean Green" does not hold the same magical powers.)
(Apparently "Mean Green" does not hold the same magical powers.)
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: French Rage (---.packetdesign.com)
Date: November 13, 2008 04:59PM
ugarte
The Big XII is that much stronger than the rest of the NCAA? They must have an amazing OOC record.
And, wow, to see two Pac-10 (or any BCS conference) teams at the bottom of the chart is shocking.
Not too shocking, Wazzou suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
___________________________
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: billhoward (---.sub-75-220-55.myvzw.com)
Date: November 13, 2008 06:06PM
I kinda like them. They look like derigibles covered with graffiti.
It woudld be nice if replyers omitted the graphics so it only appears once.
It woudld be nice if replyers omitted the graphics so it only appears once.
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: Robb (---.ip.mcleodusa.net)
Date: November 13, 2008 10:31PM
Not at all - you just have to remind yourself that the charts reflect math, not reality. (with no offense to JTW's methods)ugarte
And, wow, to see two Pac-10 (or any BCS conference) teams at the bottom of the chart is shocking.
Re: Penn State's No. 1 hopes fade again
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: November 13, 2008 11:30PM
I like the graphical nerd-pictures.
More Bradley-Terry football stuff
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: January 12, 2009 06:51AM
I never got around to doing this in December, but here's how the hockey-style KRACH with absolutist interpretations of perfections (aka the Jeffries prior in the Bayesian picture; search the archives for an explanation )
It's a bit of a mess because nine teams have "perfect" ratings relative to the pack, which also shows up in the Bradley-Terry table:
It's a bit of a mess because nine teams have "perfect" ratings relative to the pack, which also shows up in the Bradley-Terry table:
# Team BT RRWP W- L W/L SOS RPI 1 Oklahoma infin .983 11- 1 11.00 inf .683 2 Texas infin .983 11- 1 11.00 inf .665 3 Texas Tech infin .983 9- 1 9.000 inf .647 4 Utah infin .979 11- 0 infin inf .635 5 Boise St infin .970 11- 0 infin inf .611 6 Oklahoma St infin .958 8- 3 2.667 inf .584 7 TCU infin .958 9- 2 4.500 inf .597 8 Brigham Young infin .949 9- 2 4.500 inf .560 9 Florida 7329. .892 11- 1 11.00 666.3 .666 10 Alabama 5716. .883 11- 1 11.00 519.6 .621Sorting this out is a good example of why the fictitious games (aka regularlizing prior) are a good idea. With those, the ratings of the top ten become:
# Team BT RRWP W- L W/L SOS RPI 1 Oklahoma 1954. .920 11- 1 6.000 325.6 .683 2 Utah 1734. .912 11- 0 12.00 144.5 .635 3 Texas 1516. .902 11- 1 6.000 252.6 .665 4 Texas Tech 1352. .893 9- 1 5.000 270.3 .647 5 Florida 1075. .872 11- 1 6.000 179.2 .666 6 Boise St 1030. .868 11- 0 12.00 85.87 .611 7 Alabama 857.5 .849 11- 1 6.000 142.9 .621 8 Southern Cal 771.7 .837 11- 1 6.000 128.6 .606 9 Penn State 720.1 .829 10- 1 5.500 130.9 .610 10 TCU 601.0 .807 9- 2 3.333 180.3 .597(W/L now includes one fictitious win and loss against a team with a rating of 100.)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2009 07:38AM by jtwcornell91.
Bradley-Terry football after the bowls
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: January 12, 2009 07:35AM
Afterwards, not only is Utah the only undefeated team, but Oklahoma and Texas Tech have both lost to teams in the pack, which sucks Texas and TCU down:
The top ten looks like
Round one:
#6 Alabama at #3 Texas
#5 Southern Cal at #4 Oklahoma
(Utah and Florida get byes)
Semifinals:
USC/OU winner at #1 Utah
Alabama/Texas winner at #2 Florida
National Championship game:
Semifinal winners at neutral site
The top ten looks like
# Team BT RRWP W- L W/L SOS RPI 1 Utah infin 1.000 12- 0 infin inf .649 2 Florida 23435 .964 12- 1 12.00 1953. .683 3 Texas 16743 .956 12- 1 12.00 1395. .672 4 Oklahoma 16373 .955 11- 2 5.500 2977. .672 5 Alabama 12211 .946 11- 2 5.500 2220. .627 6 TCU 11029 .943 10- 2 5.000 2206. .614 7 Southern Cal 6358. .921 12- 1 12.00 529.8 .627 8 Texas Tech 6008. .918 9- 2 4.500 1335. .622 9 Boise St 4983. .910 11- 1 11.00 453.0 .601 10 Penn State 1976. .853 10- 2 5.000 395.3 .599Of course, this doesn't tell you any more than that Utah, as the last undefeated team, should be #1 if you assume the game results tell you everything. But that's unsatisfying since it doesn't address the strength of schedule issue; A 1-0 Utah would look the same as a 12-0 Utah, USC's wins over Washington and Washington State mean literally nothing, etc. But if we add in the fictitious games (or equivalently find the maximum of the posterior using a regularizing prior we get what I think is the best objective ranking using only win-loss information from games against other FBS teams:
# Team BT RRWP W- L W/L SOS RPI 1 Utah 2592. .938 12- 0 13.00 199.4 .649 2 Florida 1699. .911 12- 1 6.500 261.4 .683 3 Texas 1530. .903 12- 1 6.500 235.4 .672 4 Oklahoma 1348. .893 11- 2 4.000 336.9 .672 5 Southern Cal 1121. .876 12- 1 6.500 172.5 .627 6 Alabama 911.7 .856 11- 2 4.000 227.9 .627 7 TCU 784.8 .840 10- 2 3.667 214.0 .614 8 Texas Tech 741.4 .833 9- 2 3.333 222.4 .622 9 Boise St 670.6 .821 11- 1 6.000 111.8 .601 10 Penn State 559.4 .798 10- 2 3.667 152.6 .599That allows us to seed the NCAA I-A (or whatever you want to call it) tournament:
Round one:
#6 Alabama at #3 Texas
#5 Southern Cal at #4 Oklahoma
(Utah and Florida get byes)
Semifinals:
USC/OU winner at #1 Utah
Alabama/Texas winner at #2 Florida
National Championship game:
Semifinal winners at neutral site
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2009 07:37AM by jtwcornell91.
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