Lacrosse recruiting class

Here's the announcement, Tim: [cornellbigred.com]

Only one D, and no G.

Jeff Tambroni
“Across the board, this class is extremely athletic and they are going to help us as a program,” said Tambroni. “We are excited about the athleticism that these nine guys bring to the field. It’s a group that has some pretty good lacrosse skills and a pretty high lacrosse IQ. Still, they’re going to need some instruction and repetition, because most of them are two- or three-sport athletes, but once they start playing lacrosse year-round, their potential is very exciting.”

Hillel, please help with an English to English translation. Athleticism is always good in an athlete, but will it ward off Princeton in the Ivies and take us to the final four? What should we make of the class of 2012?

Of note geographically: The majority are New Englanders (attn Mike: it can be done), 2 from NYS, 1 from Canada (an under-the-radar recruiting locale the last three decades dating to the days of Alan Rimmer and Mike French), and 1 from California. But nothing from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Al DeFlorio
Only one D, and no G.

From what little I know of Tramboni's program, I suspect that some of those middies will find themselves a little bit farther back in the field come two year's time.

On a non-sports related observation, I think it is interesting to note that all but two of the recruits hail from a private school. There are plenty of strong lacrosse players coming out of public schools throughout New York State and Maryland, but Cornell only landed one of them, and even he spent a year at Deerfield.

Yeah, and that prep type player bothers me. It is not characteristic of past Cornell teams that were dominated by public school guys, and more reminiscent of prior Harvard and Yale teams that heretofore have been bottom half of the league. Of course it's a stereotype, and perhaps grossly so, but there's a certain toughness that you get from the non-preps that just doesn't seem to be there with the private school kids outside of the MIAA, especially New England preps. I like the blue chips that you find with the blue collars.

Coach Tambroni has done a great job with recruits no one ever heard of, carrying on what Ned Harkness and Richie Moran did before him, but when I compare this group with Princeton's haul, and even Harvard's I get nervous. Brown is back, and Penn can't underachieve forever, can they?

I agree with mnagowski - we convert a lot of the rangier mids to defensemen. Langton looks to me to be a candidate - he has size and apparently speed, and his summary is conspicuous in avoiding any scoring stats.

On the goaltender front, there were a quite a few strong candidates in this years class, but I guess they passed because they have the Ithaca High kid who played on the Central Empire State Games team coming in for 2009. I'm hoping Martinez blossoms. Meyers played well in summer tournaments, but I can't get the Ohio State and North Carolina nightmares to go away.

billhoward
Of note geographically: The majority are New Englanders (attn Mike: it can be done), 2 from NYS, 1 from Canada (an under-the-radar recruiting locale the last three decades dating to the days of Alan Rimmer and Mike French), and 1 from California. But nothing from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The appropriate comparison to Schafer recruiting hockey players from New England would be Tambroni recruiting lacrosse players from Maryland and Virginia, which (as you point out) he hasn't done this year.

Personally, I think it's a wise use of both coaches' time; the odds of an awesome hockey prospect from Worcester or an awesome lacrosse prospect from Baltimore coming to Cornell (absent a factor like being a legacy or having roots in the area; bear in mind that prior to Sean Whitney enrolling this fall, the last player Schafer had brought in from a New England prep school was Sam Paolini, who's from Rochester) are about the same, which is to say pretty slim. That being the case, why waste effort?

Josh '99

billhoward
Of note geographically: The majority are New Englanders (attn Mike: it can be done), 2 from NYS, 1 from Canada (an under-the-radar recruiting locale the last three decades dating to the days of Alan Rimmer and Mike French), and 1 from California. But nothing from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The appropriate comparison to Schafer recruiting hockey players from New England would be Tambroni recruiting lacrosse players from Maryland and Virginia, which (as you point out) he hasn't done this year.

Personally, I think it's a wise use of both coaches' time; the odds of an awesome hockey prospect from Worcester or an awesome lacrosse prospect from Baltimore coming to Cornell (absent a factor like being a legacy or having roots in the area; bear in mind that prior to Sean Whitney enrolling this fall, the last player Schafer had brought in from a New England prep school was Sam Paolini, who's from Rochester) are about the same, which is to say pretty slim. That being the case, why waste effort?

But Cornell should be able to compete with virtually all other schools for players from Long Island and upstate NY. Athletic scholarships and lower admission standards may give some schools an edge, but Cornell's contract colleges should give some financial advantage over schools like the 'cuse. Full-ride lacrosse scholarships are not the rule at many schools, and many players receive partial athletic scholarships.

Hill-eeeeeeeeeeeel... where aaaaaaare youuuuuuuuuu!?

Swampy

Josh '99

billhoward
Of note geographically: The majority are New Englanders (attn Mike: it can be done), 2 from NYS, 1 from Canada (an under-the-radar recruiting locale the last three decades dating to the days of Alan Rimmer and Mike French), and 1 from California. But nothing from south of the Mason-Dixon line.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The appropriate comparison to Schafer recruiting hockey players from New England would be Tambroni recruiting lacrosse players from Maryland and Virginia, which (as you point out) he hasn't done this year.

Personally, I think it's a wise use of both coaches' time; the odds of an awesome hockey prospect from Worcester or an awesome lacrosse prospect from Baltimore coming to Cornell (absent a factor like being a legacy or having roots in the area; bear in mind that prior to Sean Whitney enrolling this fall, the last player Schafer had brought in from a New England prep school was Sam Paolini, who's from Rochester) are about the same, which is to say pretty slim. That being the case, why waste effort?

But Cornell should be able to compete with virtually all other schools for players from Long Island and upstate NY. Athletic scholarships and lower admission standards may give some schools an edge, but Cornell's contract colleges should give some financial advantage over schools like the 'cuse. Full-ride lacrosse scholarships are not the rule at many schools, and many players receive partial athletic scholarships.

That may be true, though I don't know all THAT much about the recruiting landscape. It doesn't really have anything to do with my point, though, which was that Tambroni recruiting players from New England is not the same as Schafer hypothetically recruiting players from New England. Tambroni recruiting players from Long Island might be comparable, if Hofstra and Iona and Stonybrook were lacrosse powerhouses. Upstate is comparable, I suppose, though "upstate" can be used to describe a wide area and I'd expect Tambroni to have more success recruiting players from the Hudson Valley than from the suburbs of Syracuse. Accordingly, note that two of this year's nine recruits are from Long Island, whereas none are from anywhere near Syracuse.

Why do you suspect more success in the Hudson Valley? We've had some great recruits from there, recently Tommy Schmicker, Kyle Georgalas and Andrew Collins, but a lot more are from LI and CNY, where it seems to me with Tambroni's West Genessee pedigree and Hobart history we should be doing better. There don't seem to be a whole lot of West Genny players in the Ivies lately. Is it because they're good enough to get financial aid at the scholarship schools or are academics a soft spot?

TimV
Why do you suspect more success in the Hudson Valley? We've had some great recruits from there, recently Tommy Schmicker, Kyle Georgalas and Andrew Collins, but a lot more are from LI and CNY, where it seems to me with Tambroni's West Genessee pedigree and Hobart history we should be doing better. There don't seem to be a whole lot of West Genny players in the Ivies lately. Is it because they're good enough to get financial aid at the scholarship schools or are academics a soft spot?

That latter question is certainly beyond the scope of my knowledge. Hopefully Tambroni's history in CNY can help us get players from that area, but I have to believe that the vast majority of the time a blue chip player from (for example) West Genesee or Watertown is going to pick Syracuse over Cornell. Long Island, again, strikes me as a different situation because there aren't any major lacrosse powerhouses right there in the immediate area. (Sorry Hofstra.)

In any case, I stand by my original broader point, which is that a coach who tries to recruit players from powerhouses' backyards (CNY and Maryland for lacrosse, New England for hockey) is fighting an uphill battle, and thus it's often a wiser use of limited resources (time, energy, money, etc.) to recruit in areas without so much obvious competition (Long Island and New England for lacrosse, Long Island and Schafer favorite Western Canada for hockey).

Josh '99

TimV
Why do you suspect more success in the Hudson Valley? We've had some great recruits from there, recently Tommy Schmicker, Kyle Georgalas and Andrew Collins, but a lot more are from LI and CNY, where it seems to me with Tambroni's West Genessee pedigree and Hobart history we should be doing better. There don't seem to be a whole lot of West Genny players in the Ivies lately. Is it because they're good enough to get financial aid at the scholarship schools or are academics a soft spot?

That latter question is certainly beyond the scope of my knowledge. Hopefully Tambroni's history in CNY can help us get players from that area, but I have to believe that the vast majority of the time a blue chip player from (for example) West Genesee or Watertown is going to pick Syracuse over Cornell. Long Island, again, strikes me as a different situation because there aren't any major lacrosse powerhouses right there in the immediate area. (Sorry Hofstra.)

In any case, I stand by my original broader point, which is that a coach who tries to recruit players from powerhouses' backyards (CNY and Maryland for lacrosse, New England for hockey) is fighting an uphill battle, and thus it's often a wiser use of limited resources (time, energy, money, etc.) to recruit in areas without so much obvious competition (Long Island and New England for lacrosse, Long Island and Schafer favorite Western Canada for hockey).

It does not strike me that Syracuse has such an advantage over Cornell anywhere. I do not know the details of Syracuse's athletic scholarships, but it is common even for major sports schools to give only partial athletic scholarships for sports other than basketball and football, except perhaps for the very best blue-chip players. So, even putting aside the cost advantage the statutory colleges give Cornell, it's not clear that Syracuse has that much of a financial advantage. Add to this
Cornell's deeper pockets for need-based financial aid (soon to be mainly grants for middle-income students), and Cornell is very competitive on the financial aid front.

Beyond this, while Syracuse is a good school, its academic reputation and offerings do not touch Cornell's. Few lacrosse players, if any, will earn their livings playing lacrosse, and Cornell has the advantage when it comes to the value of the degree and availability of many fields of study. (But not all. Syracuse offers some majors, like geography, that Cornell does not.)

Given that both schools are potentially legitimate contenders for the national championship, I do not understand why people think Cornell cannot compete successfully with Syracuse for blue-chip players from anywhere in the Northeast.

On the other hand, there is the matter of admission standards. Here it seems to me that Princeton has the advantage competing for blue-chip players with strong academic records.

Swampy
Given that both schools are potentially legitimate contenders for the national championship, I do not understand why people think Cornell cannot compete successfully with Syracuse for blue-chip players from anywhere in the Northeast.

I hate to denigrate any Cornell program for any reason, but saying Cornell and Syracuse are on equal footing for a recruit who wants to win a championship is probably overly kind to the Red. Cornell has won three championships, most recently in 1977 (i.e., ten years or more before recruits were born); Syracuse has won nine championships (not counting the vacated one in 1990), most recently in 2008, and including four of the past nine. There's a similar disparity in quantity and recency of unsuccessful appearances in the title game.

That wasn't really even what I was getting at, though. It's like Gopher hockey. No matter how shitty they are or how many years they go without winning a championship (1979 to 2002 was pretty significant for them), kids in Minnesota grow up wanting to play for the Gophers, and any other school is going to have a hard time convincing them to leave the state if the Gophers want that kid. (Remember how big a deal it was when Zach Parise decided to go to UND instead?) I think any coach, be it Tambroni or Pietramala at Hopkins or Danowski at Duke or whoever else, is fighting the same uphill battle with lacrosse players from around Syracuse.

Josh '99

Swampy
Given that both schools are potentially legitimate contenders for the national championship, I do not understand why people think Cornell cannot compete successfully with Syracuse for blue-chip players from anywhere in the Northeast.

I hate to denigrate any Cornell program for any reason, but saying Cornell and Syracuse are on equal footing for a recruit who wants to win a championship is probably overly kind to the Red. Cornell has won three championships, most recently in 1977 (i.e., ten years or more before recruits were born); Syracuse has won nine championships (not counting the vacated one in 1990), most recently in 2008, and including four of the past nine. There's a similar disparity in quantity and recency of unsuccessful appearances in the title game.

That wasn't really even what I was getting at, though. It's like Gopher hockey. No matter how shitty they are or how many years they go without winning a championship (1979 to 2002 was pretty significant for them), kids in Minnesota grow up wanting to play for the Gophers, and any other school is going to have a hard time convincing them to leave the state if the Gophers want that kid. (Remember how big a deal it was when Zach Parise decided to go to UND instead?) I think any coach, be it Tambroni or Pietramala at Hopkins or Danowski at Duke or whoever else, is fighting the same uphill battle with lacrosse players from around Syracuse.

This point is well taken. Laxpower lists incoming recruits at Syracuse. Many of their recruits do hail from NYS, but the number of new recruits stands out even more. Did they really recruit 23 new players this year?

16 listed here:

[www.suathletics.com]

Plus two transfers (Lade and Kahoe), and Cody Jamieson [www.nllinsider.com] is expected for the spring season.