OT - Syracuse Women's Hockey Hires Flanagan

Impressive hire. He did an incredible job at SLU, and now he gets scholarships to offer to kids.

[www.suathletics.com]

Let's say Syracuse did at some point decided to add D-I men's hockey to their athletic program (which I guess is what everyone hoped might eventually happen when they set up their women's team). What are the odds that they'd end up in the ECAC rather than trying to work their way into Hockey East or the CCHA?

(Yes, I know this is just speculation, which some of you hate.)

I think Syracuse would have a hard time getting into the ECACH. having 13 teams would totally destroy the elegance of the Travel Partner system. So Cuse would either have to find another team to bring in with it (I'm thinking possibly Niagara if (or is it when?) the CHA folds would be the best choice). I doubt RIT will leave Atlantic Hockey anytime soon, but perhaps. Maybe if UML does decide to leave Hockey East as was talked about last year they might consider ECAC.

of course the other possibility is a team leaving the ECAC to be replaced by Syracuse. Who would you kick out (or whose program is ready to fold)?

Honestly I think Syracuse would be a natural fit for Atlantic Hockey. Simple proximity to RIT would make for a good rivalry there. Besides, is it in the ECAC's best interest to admit a new program which could weaken the conference even more for a few years (look how long it took union to get 'good'?)

Dpperk29
Who would you kick out (or whose program is ready to fold)?

Union Union Union Union Union Union Union Union Union a thousand times Union.

Dpperk29
(look how long it took union to get 'good'?)

Is this one of those "is zero a number" debates?

I always love the garbage that is said at these things. For example:

Flanagan from press release
"One of the things that impressed me is that the Syracuse athletics administration wants to do things the right way," Flanagan said. "This is an opportunity to build a program the right way. You do that by bringing in quality people with character. I think it will be a lot of fun and hopefully something that the University and the Syracuse area can be proud of.

Meaning SLU didn't go at it the right way? And he is certainly the quality one with character, if he does say so himself.

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I'm leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Jim Hyla
How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

How about, I am leaving because Canton is in the god-forsaken middle of nowhere and Syracuse, while no metropolis, has some semblance of civilization.

KeithK

Jim Hyla
How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

How about, I am leaving because Canton is in the god-forsaken middle of nowhere and Syracuse, while no metropolis, has some semblance of civilization.

...and the Dinosaur BBQ.

I would guess SU's intention would be to move their women's program to Hockey East, as soon as possible. Fellow Big East members Providence and UConn are there, as is former Big East member BC (Syracuse and BC have begun to patch up their differences from the ACC fallout & they're scheduled to resume playing football in 2010). If that were to happen it would be the logical place for a men's program.

Syracuse is also one of the schools mentioned when Big 10/11 expansion comes up, at least among journalists. If that were to happen, as unlikely as that is, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and Syracuse would form the BTHC. Of course, it might be more likely that Syracuse goes green and joins the Ivies.

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I'm leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

But at least you'll be truthful as to the reason. Implying that somehow SU is doing it the right way, and SLU wasn't?, ticks me off.

And you know, sometimes loyalty should matter. I don't know enough about this case, but turning down money is not always bad.

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

Dude, aren't you a lawyer? Of course you have no loyalty.

For those that are interested, NPR's Only a Game did a feature on the St. Lawrence Lady Saints on 3/15/08 (available on free podcast). It seems like Coach Flanagan has accomplished quite a bit at St. Lawrence in his time there. Getting a small school to the Women's Frozen Four (and USA Hockey Championship before the NC$$ authorized a women's hockey championship) is no small feat.

Unfortunately, St. Lawrence and their senior laden team came up short, again, in their quest for a national championship. It sounds like he is leaving the St. Lawrence program in good shape (unlike former IU basketball coach Kelvin Sampson) and he has been the head coach there for 9 years, It isn't like he was there for 1 year and then moved on to greener pastures ala Men's Basketball coach Bob Huggins.

There is quite a bit of girls hockey talent in the Syracuse area. It will be interesting to see how quickly he can get their program up to speed and on par with St. Lawrence, Harvard, UNH, especially with his involvement in the women's development program.

KeithK

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

Dude, aren't you a lawyer? Of course you have no loyalty.

Hahahahaha! Funny 'cause it bashes lawyers! Hoo-boy!

Seriously, you can't do better than that?

Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if you are smart you will avoid her like the plague.

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if you are smart you will avoid her like the plague.

Not to worry - he's a Cornellian, not a Clarksonian!

(sorry - you really hung that one up there for me)

Robb

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if you are smart you will avoid her like the plague.

Not to worry - he's a Cornellian, not a Clarksonian!

(sorry - you really hung that one up there for me)

Clarksonians know better than Cornellians to avoid SLU girls. I was mearly giving him some knowledge in an area that most clarksonians know more about than most cornellians.

I didn't realize how much of a Tee I set that one up on for you... back to studying.

Dpperk29

Robb

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if you are smart you will avoid her like the plague.

Not to worry - he's a Cornellian, not a Clarksonian!

(sorry - you really hung that one up there for me)

Clarksonians know better than Cornellians to avoid SLU girls. I was mearly giving him some knowledge in an area that most clarksonians know more about than most cornellians.

She dated a Clarksonian in college, so obviously it's not exactly universal wisdom, mear -- uh, merely common wisdom.

Beeeej

Dpperk29

Robb

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if you are smart you will avoid her like the plague.

Not to worry - he's a Cornellian, not a Clarksonian!

(sorry - you really hung that one up there for me)

Clarksonians know better than Cornellians to avoid SLU girls. I was mearly giving him some knowledge in an area that most clarksonians know more about than most cornellians.

She dated a Clarksonian in college, so obviously it's not exactly universal wisdom, mear -- uh, merely common wisdom.

search through broken glass long enough and you might end up finding a diamond, but you will probably just end up with cut up hands...

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if your smart you will avoid her like the plague.

FYP

KeithK

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

Dude, aren't you a lawyer? Of course you have no loyalty.

I don't care if you bash lawyers, but "loyalty" is the wrong ground to come at us on. The entire ethos of the profession is "Fuck the rest of the world, I'm on this guy's side." We have more Code than Omar and almost as much as the Marines.

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I'm leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

But at least you'll be truthful as to the reason. Implying that somehow SU is doing it the right way, and SLU wasn't?, ticks me off.

And you know, sometimes loyalty should matter. I don't know enough about this case, but turning down money is not always bad.

Flanagan was at St. Lawrence for 20 years! He isn't a mercenary like Larry Brown, leaving a trail of AD's staring at worthless contracts.

You dismiss the first quote, in which he gives a great deal of thanks to SLU for the decades he spent on their staff as empty because, after all, he wasn't buried in Canton behind Appleton. Then you read an insult to little St. Lawrence into the second quote which praises Syracuse with thinly veiled code for "will spend a shitload of money on the program."

Your desire to protect the feelings of St. Lawrence has led you to want Flanagan's first official act as head coach at Syracuse to be "insult Syracuse." Is that really how you think the world is supposed to work?

ugarte

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Jim Hyla

"I am indebted to my former St. Lawrence University student-athletes, whose hard work and accomplishments have given me this wonderful opportunity. I also want to thank St. Lawrence for all that it has done for me for the past 20 years. I am looking forward to the challenge and I am eager to get started."

But not too indebted that I won't take the money and run.

How about, I'm leaving because SU can pay me and my players more than SLU can. I'm glad I started here, but I don't want to stay here the rest of my life. ?

I know, I'm being too harsh.

Way too harsh. If anyone ever tells me that I should turn down a higher paying job out of loyalty to my current employer I will tell them to stick it.

But at least you'll be truthful as to the reason. Implying that somehow SU is doing it the right way, and SLU wasn't?, ticks me off.

And you know, sometimes loyalty should matter. I don't know enough about this case, but turning down money is not always bad.

Flanagan was at St. Lawrence for 20 years! He isn't a mercenary like Larry Brown, leaving a trail of AD's staring at worthless contracts.

You dismiss the first quote, in which he gives a great deal of thanks to SLU for the decades he spent on their staff as empty because, after all, he wasn't buried in Canton behind Appleton. Then you read an insult to little St. Lawrence into the second quote which praises Syracuse with thinly veiled code for "will spend a shitload of money on the program."

Your desire to protect the feelings of St. Lawrence has led you to want Flanagan's first official act as head coach at Syracuse to be "insult Syracuse." Is that really how you think the world is supposed to work?

I don't care where someone is buried, but when your first statement is that I want to come to Syracuse because they do it the right way, I think you are either being disingenuous or certainly not saying nice things about your former program.

I don't know how Syracuse is doing it the right way and SLU wasn't, but he implied that that was a reason he came. I just don't buy it. I still think he came because he'll get more money and he found it increasingly harder to compete for the crown at a place like SLU. I don't fault him for that, I don't think in my posts I faulted him for leaving. Rather, I faulted him for giving the usual nonsensical reason for why he left for what he thinks is a better opportunity. It probably is a better op for him, with a much better chance for him to eventually get back to the Frozen Four. I honestly think he should have done it, after all it gives me more games to see without traveling.

I know no one will ever be truthful in instances like this, but I do reserve the right to pick apart doublespeak, whether it's a politician or a coach.

Two final points. First I do respect coaches who do well and continue at their institution once they have reached the summit, Jack Parker comes to mind. Second, I was going to defend lawyers on their loyalty, you put it well on your other post, but now I'm not sure I want to do that.

Jim Hyla
I don't know how Syracuse is doing it the right way and SLU wasn't, but he implied that that was a reason he came. I just don't buy it.

Count me in the camp who disagrees with you, Jim. I don't think there was any implication about SLU buried in his statement. I think he was just saying that SU didn't have a program, now they do, and when you're starting from scratch, there's a right way and a wrong way you could do things. He saw the people SU was bringing in, which convinced them they were going about it in a satisfying way, which made him more comfortable with this decision. To me, it was a statement about the progress at Syracuse alone, completely detached from commentary about SLU. I think you're reading too much into it.

I will agree with you that press conferences are pretty stupid, and money was a bigger factor.

jtwcornell91

Dpperk29

Beeeej
Speaking of SLU women, just a few minutes ago I received an e-mail on the only dating site I still frequent, with the subject line:

Oooohhhhhhh Cornell..... I'm went to SLU....

I'm sure you're did, honey.

if your smart you will avoid her like the plague.

FYP

Your retarded.

RichH

Jim Hyla
I don't know how Syracuse is doing it the right way and SLU wasn't, but he implied that that was a reason he came. I just don't buy it.

Count me in the camp who disagrees with you, Jim. I think you're reading too much into it.

I will agree with you that press conferences are pretty stupid, and money was a bigger factor.

Yeah, I know I'm too cynical. That's why I stated "I know, I'm being too harsh.". It's just that when it comes to big time athletics, I get upset. And unfortunately our little sport is becoming big time athletics. It's becoming too hard to keep the genie in the bottle. If it goes too far, we'll lose our fun as well.

My only hope is that since we do have another avenue for players who want to try and go pro, we won't ever go the way of football or basketball. I guess I wish I could have 50's football and 60's and 70's hockey. Fortunately we can all enjoy lacrosse as it is.

Geez, who ****ed in Jim's corn flakes for the last few weeks? I like you Jim, you're a good guy, but it seems like you and Al have been competing for 'crotchetiest old man' recently (love ya too Al! ), and I think you're winning.

Jim Hyla
Yeah, I know I'm too cynical. That's why I stated "I know, I'm being too harsh.".

Next time you know you're not being fair, maybe you could reconsider your position, rather than continuing to defend a position that you yourself admit is 'too harsh'.

Complementing a new employer is not tantamount to insulting an old one. And its not fair to hold someone to a standard that I highly doubt anyone here would ever hold themselves to - i.e. implying its always wrong to take a job that you feel is better for you in some way (location, salary, job type, potential for advancement) due to some general societal sense of 'loyalty' to the old employer.

DeltaOne81
Geez, who ****ed in Jim's corn flakes for the last few weeks? I like you Jim, you're a good guy, but it seems like you and Al have been competing for 'crotchetiest old man' recently (love ya too Al! ), and I think you're winning.

Jim Hyla
Yeah, I know I'm too cynical. That's why I stated "I know, I'm being too harsh.".

Next time you know you're not being fair, maybe you could reconsider your position, rather than continuing to defend a position that you yourself admit is 'too harsh'.

Complementing a new employer is not tantamount to insulting an old one. And its not fair to hold someone to a standard that I highly doubt anyone here would ever hold themselves to - i.e. implying its always wrong to take a job that you feel is better for you in some way (location, salary, job type, potential for advancement) due to some general societal sense of 'loyalty' to the old employer.

DeltaOne81
Geez, who ****ed in Jim's corn flakes for the last few weeks? I like you Jim, you're a good guy, but it seems like you and Al have been competing for 'crotchetiest old man' recently (love ya too Al! ), and I think you're winning.

Maybe you can blame march madness. We've been having some interesting discussions around here (Syracuse here, not ELF here) about march madness and all the hypocritical learning institutions making all that money off all those players and basically giving nothing in return.

It sours some of us about the directions of sports and college sports in general. If you think that giving them free tuition is a gift, just look at the graduation rates. There was the board of the b'ball schools with winners being the brightest. Maybe when march madness comes about someone should put out a board based upon graduation rates. I'd love to see a sports program discuss this in the middle of the action. Unfortunately everyone but the student athletes win.

So I popped off about a coach who was taking the money and running, well so be it. I just don't want the sport we love going the way of all other high profile team sports. I don't really want to have lacrosse be my only saving grace.

And there are some who stay where they are having fun and don't jump for the money. My example of Coach Parker is exactly that. Going back to something we all know better, do you think Coach Harkness was really happy he left Cornell to go to Detroit, only to have to reappear at Union? I hope our Coach Schafer sees the same thing.

Or put it another way, I wouldn't be worrying about any of this if I was worrying about Cornell in the Frozen Four. How long till the puck drops for us again? Age can't you put that up for me? Please?

And Al take that, I beat you.

Jim Hyla
And Al take that, I beat you.

Guess I'll hafta try harder.

Al DeFlorio

Jim Hyla
And Al take that, I beat you.

Guess I'll hafta try harder.

Get a room, guys.

Jim Hyla
Maybe when march madness comes about someone should put out a board based upon graduation rates.

It's been done by Inside Higher Ed: Bracket

And to take the nitpicking fun away from the eLves, here is some criticism of the methodology: [sportsprof.blogspot.com]

That sports prof blog response baffles me a little. I agree with most of what he wants to count/not count, but... not counting players who leave early to turn pro against the graduation rate? Isn't that the biggest single point of the graduation rate?

On the flip side, he does want to count kids who lose their scholarships due to not being skilled enough against the graduation rate? What if the student stays and finishes his degree anyway? Or transfers elsewhere and does so? Shouldn't graduation rate be one way of looking at commitment to academics, not being good enough to stay on the team.

ugarte

Jim Hyla
Maybe when march madness comes about someone should put out a board based upon graduation rates.

It's been done by Inside Higher Ed: Bracket

And to take the nitpicking fun away from the eLves, here is some criticism of the methodology: [sportsprof.blogspot.com]

Thanks, I feel better already.