UMass 9, Syracuse 7 (F) - no NCAAs for Syracuse

Just got back from Providence and turned this on...

Now 7-6

Its on ESPNU, btw

Now 8-6

Now 8-7

9-7, 3:25

1:19 left, TO UMass

17 seconds left, Syracuse gets testy

Excellent news!

ugarte
Excellent news!

Unless you're Princeton in which case you may be out now too.

Chris '03

ugarte
Excellent news!

Unless you're Princeton in which case you may be out now too.

Well, 'quality wins' and all that are based on RPI, not whether you make the tournament or not (as best I know). So, this doesn't hurt anymore than any other loss (i.e. I don't think there's a cliff factor there).

Of course with Syracuse at #13 before this loss, if it drops them out of the top 15, it very well may hurt them for that reason. The good news for Princeton is that they have a pretty good RPI and pretty good SOS, and those factors have counted for more in the last couple years.

But if you consider that the handbook lists results vs. t-15 teams as the #1 factor in selection, ahead of SOS and straight RPI, Princeton is in a pretty poor spot with potentially a 0-3 record in that department.

edit: moved to different thread

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

It avoids the potential SU @ CU first round game in two weeks.

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

RichH

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

You know, that's an emotion that I never really understood. Dislike a team, root against them, yes; hate a school? I know a lot on this board hate Harvard, some hate SU, but I really can't get into it, nor understand it. They never did anything to me except beat my school sometimes. Hatred, oh well.

Jim Hyla

RichH
And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

Dislike a team, root against them, yes; hate a school?

I believe the word we are looking for here is "hyperbole."

ugarte

Jim Hyla

RichH
And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

Dislike a team, root against them, yes; hate a school?

I believe the word we are looking for here is "hyperbole."

Exaggerating a little bit, aren't we?

Jim Hyla

RichH

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

You know, that's an emotion that I never really understood. Dislike a team, root against them, yes; hate a school? I know a lot on this board hate Harvard, some hate SU, but I really can't get into it, nor understand it. They never did anything to me except beat my school sometimes. Hatred, oh well.

I think when most people say they 'hate a school', they really mean they dislike and root against their teams. I think very few actually have it out for the professors and administrators

Syracuse had made the NCAA tournament 24 years in a row. Give someone else a chance. Be it the Yankees, the Cowboys/Niners, the Lakers, or whomever, teams that win a lot cause a lot of people to want to see them knock it off, and give someone else a chance. That applies perfectly to Syracuse in lacrosse as well (and JHU, and Princeton, and UVa, and...)

DeltaOne81
I think when most people say they 'hate a school', they really mean they dislike and root against their teams. I think very few actually have it out for the professors and administrators

Syracuse had made the NCAA tournament 24 years in a row. Give someone else a chance. Be it the Yankees, the Cowboys/Niners, the Lakers, or whomever, teams that win a lot cause a lot of people to want to see them knock it off, and give someone else a chance.

I think such feelings can also be a reaction to the arrogance of fans of the team(s) involved. Can be nice to see them shut up for a change.

Al DeFlorio

DeltaOne81
I think when most people say they 'hate a school', they really mean they dislike and root against their teams. I think very few actually have it out for the professors and administrators

Syracuse had made the NCAA tournament 24 years in a row. Give someone else a chance. Be it the Yankees, the Cowboys/Niners, the Lakers, or whomever, teams that win a lot cause a lot of people to want to see them knock it off, and give someone else a chance.

I think such feelings can also be a reaction to the arrogance of fans of the team(s) involved. Can be nice to see them shut up for a change.

Definitely true

Al DeFlorio
I think such feelings can also be a reaction to the arrogance of fans of the team(s) involved. Can be nice to see them shut up for a change.

Or if they don't shut up, it can be nice/interesting to tune in and see how they react to their team when it loses.

Syracues Lacrosse Forum

DeltaOne81

Jim Hyla

RichH

Jim Hyla

ugarte
Excellent news!

Why?

And a lot of us REALLY hate Syracuse.

You know, that's an emotion that I never really understood. Dislike a team, root against them, yes; hate a school? I know a lot on this board hate Harvard, some hate SU, but I really can't get into it, nor understand it. They never did anything to me except beat my school sometimes. Hatred, oh well.

I think when most people say they 'hate a school', they really mean they dislike and root against their teams. I think very few actually have it out for the professors and administrators

Syracuse had made the NCAA tournament 24 years in a row. Give someone else a chance. Be it the Yankees, the Cowboys/Niners, the Lakers, or whomever, teams that win a lot cause a lot of people to want to see them knock it off, and give someone else a chance. That applies perfectly to Syracuse in lacrosse as well (and JHU, and Princeton, and UVa, and...)

To answer Jim, I refer to the comments the right honourable gentleman (Fred) gave some time ago.

Of course I don't HATE the student athletes, non-athletic students, faculty, or staff of any university, otherwise we're no better than Colgate students. But a certain "hope they lose" feeling is applicable to SU lacrosse due to a certain "entitlement to the NCAA tournament" attitude that followers of their program have. Yes, "hate" was a hyperbole. I can't even say I dislike Syracuse as a team...I'd even say I support them in the greater North vs. South lax war. But yes, I tend to root against them in the context of the Central NY rivalry. I'll be more precise with my visceral language next time, even though it will be less succinct and more difficult to read through a paragraph describing in great detail my exact emotions.

Al DeFlorio
I think such feelings can also be a reaction to the arrogance of fans of the team(s) involved. Can be nice to see them shut up for a change.

This will just enrage their fans.

It probably would have been better if SU made the tourny, at least for Cornell fans. Desko has now broken their Final Four streak, their NCAA streak, and the USA's dominance. Next year's SU class looks pretty weak on paper, at least by their standard (Desko even admitted recruiting suffered while he was coaching Team USA last summer). If SU starts looking for a new coach I would expect their number one choice to be West Genny's Jeff Tambroni. It might have been better if SU had continued their slide into mediocrity with a bit less drama. SU is now 22-18 over the last three seasons.

RichH
I'd even say I support them in the greater North vs. South lax war.

This issue ran through my mind a number of times while watching the taped Syracuse-UMass game yesterday. By all indications there will be a feeble "North" presence in this year's tournament, and the prospect of an all-"South" final four is very disconcerting.

My sense is there is only one team this year that can prevent that from happening, whereas last year there were four: Syracuse, UMass, Cornell, and Hofstra. Unfortunately, the genii on last year's selection committee stuck three of them in the same quarterfinal bracket.

RichH
I can't even say I dislike Syracuse as a team...I'd even say I support them in the greater North vs. South lax war. But yes, I tend to root against them in the context of the Central NY rivalry.

When a New York State does well, it helps remind the South that lacrosse does exist north of Baltimore, a fact they're willing to forget if even one year passes without more than one northern team in the final four. A generation ago, NYS lacrosse meant Harkness/Moran/Cornell and what else (Ok, Army occasonally, plus runs by Hobart and Cortland), and then Syracuse started getting good ...

Now we've got Cornell, Syracuse, and this year Albany as D1 powerhouses, and Army (until Saturday), Binghamton, Hobart, and Colgate not terrible. Plus Sienna in Loudonville, near Albany, best of its weak conference. Plus Hofstra on Long Island, which probably should have gone the FF last year were it not for the amazing UMass run. A half-dozen NYS teams have been ranked at some point this year. Although after today's poll knocks Albany further down, it might also be that only Cornell is an NYS team in the top ten.

Plus the Division II top teams: Lemonye in Syracuse, winner of two of the last three DII championships; NYIT; Pace. And in DIII, except for #1 and #10, the top teams are currently PA or New England teams or NYS: Ithaca, St. Lawrence, RIT, Nazareth from NYS. There may be a couple others.

All this North vs South discussion in lacrosse easily reminds me of the so-called East vs West "rivalry" in college hockey (which I am not even sure it exists).

I think the N/S issue is much more real than the east/west. Especially the further back you go and the more political tournament selection/national championship annointment was.

From what I can tell the east/west rivalry in college hockey was very real for a long time. It's still there but it's more of a WCHA vs. everyone else thing now.

Agreed. A east-west rivalry is probably more real back when only four teams (two from each geographical region) were invited to the NCAA tournament.

Even after that, the east/west thing was enshrined in the tournament rules for a long, long time. In the 90's, when the tournament was 12 teams, there were still nominally 6 east and 6 west slots. Then the bottom two of each region crossed over to set up 3E vs. 6W, 4E vs. 5W, etc. in the first round. Now the committee wasn't forced to pick 6 and 6 - regional imbalance often meant that 7W became the sixth "eastern" team. But still, the system codified the east-west split to a degree. IIRC this was fading in the later years of the 12 team tourney since they stopped using the old crossover logic for frist round matchups and the 16 team tourney definitely eliminated all traces of the formal east/west split.

KeithK
IIRC this was fading in the later years of the 12 team tourney since they stopped using the old crossover logic for frist round matchups

I think that part was mostly a coincidence; the stated reason for stopping the crossovers was to prevent student athletes from being killed by terrorists. (No, seriously!)

jtwcornell91

KeithK
IIRC this was fading in the later years of the 12 team tourney since they stopped using the old crossover logic for frist round matchups

I think that part was mostly a coincidence; the stated reason for stopping the crossovers was to prevent student athletes from being killed by terrorists. (No, seriously!)

How many players have been killed by terrorists on their way to a tournament game?

See, it worked.

jtwcornell91

KeithK
IIRC this was fading in the later years of the 12 team tourney since they stopped using the old crossover logic for frist round matchups

I think that part was mostly a coincidence; the stated reason for stopping the crossovers was to prevent student athletes from being killed by terrorists. (No, seriously!)

And as a result, Cornell got to stay east and play destroy Quinnipiac (back when they weren't very good... and had no nickname).