Philadelphia Inquirer: Cornell Preseason '07-'08 Ivy Basketball Favorites?

[www.philly.com]

Inquirer
A look around the Ivy League shows Cornell as perhaps the biggest threat to take over the top spot. Next year's champion can expect to have as many as three losses on its league record, which could make for a legitimate race.

The Big Red, which finished third with a 9-5 record, have three starters returning. Although the team will lose 6-10 center Andrew Naeve, Cornell will welcome back 6-0 guard Adam Gore, who sat out this season because of a knee injury after being named 2006 rookie of the year.

The Big Red also boast the '07 rookie of the year in 6-6 forward Ryan Wittman. Coach Steve Donahue will have the services of a pair of transfers in 6-0 guard Collin Robinson (Southern Cal) and 7-0 center Jeff Foote (St. Bonaventure).

[rant]So we win the Ivies next year? And it's us not Penn or Princeton that gets in as a 15 seed to be blown out by 20 by UCLA or Florida or Arizona but it's a moral victory because Vegas had the line at 26. Heartbreak, here we come. Still, it's wondrous for a team/sport that has sucked almost every season since the time A.D. White laced on a pair of Chuck Taylors to teach phys ed. Sorry, but the Steve Donahue tenure feels like an anomaly and eventually he'll go someplace else and we'll revert to norm. You know basketball is not a major sport because the CSTV feed works. [/end rant]

billhoward
Sorry, but the Steve Donahue tenure feels like an anomaly and eventually he'll go someplace else and we'll revert to norm.[/end rant]

I understand the frustration, but I'm jazzed about the high level of play and the prospect of competing for the Ivy title for the next few years under Donahue. I think it's likely that he'll stay in Ithaca longer than people expect, partly for personal reasons. Besides, even if he does leave for a better job soon, I think that's a fair trade for a potential Ivy championship next year or the year after. Bottom line: The premature departure of Cornell basketball coaches seems to happen anyway on a regular basis, even when the team isn't competitive, so why not enjoy the ascent under Donahue -- even if he leaves soon.

(1) If other mid majors like George Mason, Virginia Commonwealth, Butler etc can win NCAA tournament games, then so can Cornell and the Ivies. The key here is seeding. Getting a 14 seed is a tough way to advance. But if we can get an 11 or 12 seed, then we have a better shot advancing against the 5 and 6 seeded teams. To get those 11 and 12 seeds, the Ivies have to win those out of conference games. This year, Cornell was poised to win the Ivy and win 20+ games. Hell, we beat Northwestern in the season opener on their floor. But, when Gore went down with injury (as well as Jason Hartford-- the two leading returning scorers from a year ago), Cornell was just too young and inexperienced. In the end, we finished a solid 16-12 and 9-5 Ivy. With the return of Hartford, Gore and the additions of the transfers-- even if Cornell just moderately improves-- this is a 20 win team. And.... all of the key players will be ONLY sophomores (Gore, Dale, Wittman, Collin Robinson, Alex Tyler, Geoff Reeves etc). I think there is not only a chance to win the Ivy next year, but also to do better than Penn in terms of seeding. We also have a nice young nucleus to build around for the next 3 years.

(2) Donahue is a gem of a coach. The team has improved each of the last 4 years and he has proven to be a masterful recruiter. However, as with all mid majors, when you have success, you lose you coach to the high majors. Hopefully, if there comes a day when we are Ivy champs and lose Donahue, we can replace him with another energetic young guy. But I am not worrying about that right now. Lets win the Ivy before we have that discussion.

I think we will learn a lot about this team's chances during the summer. If Gore and Hartord fully recover, the future is bright. If they do not, Cornell looks like another 2nd or 3rd place finisher.

Hoops is an endowed position now (Robert E Gallagher '44 Coach of Men's Basketball), just like hockey is, but maybe it needs an endowment-plus. We'll all hoping someone creates a Pete Caril-on-Cayuga endowed chair of lifetime hoops coaching with enough money to make him stick around and so he doesn't have to worry about finding $50K a year to send his kids to private college when that time comes, rather than their living at home and commuting to Cortland State.

I don't think it is practical to expect an Ivy coach to stay at his school after multiple NCAA tournament appearances unless the coach has a strong personal connection to the community like Fran Dunphy had with Philadelphia. Don't get me wrong, Ithaca is a nice place to raise a family-- but Cornell (nor Penn) could never match the salary of a high major or the "prestige." If Donahue leaves in the next few years after winning an Ivy title-- we will have no problem luring some very good candidates to Ithaca.

CornellFan
If Donahue leaves in the next few years after winning an Ivy title-- we will have no problem luring some very good candidates to Ithaca.

I'm not going to worry about this after he wins an Ivy League title. I'm not convinced he will unless he can figure out a halfcourt offense. Pete Carril he is not.

CornellFan
(1) If other mid majors like George Mason, Virginia Commonwealth, Butler etc can win NCAA tournament games, then so can Cornell and the Ivies. The key here is seeding. Getting a 14 seed is a tough way to advance. But if we can get an 11 or 12 seed, then we have a better shot advancing against the 5 and 6 seeded teams. To get those 11 and 12 seeds, the Ivies have to win those out of conference games. This year, Cornell was poised to win the Ivy and win 20+ games. Hell, we beat Northwestern in the season opener on their floor. But, when Gore went down with injury (as well as Jason Hartford-- the two leading returning scorers from a year ago), Cornell was just too young and inexperienced. In the end, we finished a solid 16-12 and 9-5 Ivy. With the return of Hartford, Gore and the additions of the transfers-- even if Cornell just moderately improves-- this is a 20 win team. And.... all of the key players will be ONLY sophomores (Gore, Dale, Wittman, Collin Robinson, Alex Tyler, Geoff Reeves etc). I think there is not only a chance to win the Ivy next year, but also to do better than Penn in terms of seeding. We also have a nice young nucleus to build around for the next 3 years.

(2) Donahue is a gem of a coach. The team has improved each of the last 4 years and he has proven to be a masterful recruiter. However, as with all mid majors, when you have success, you lose you coach to the high majors. Hopefully, if there comes a day when we are Ivy champs and lose Donahue, we can replace him with another energetic young guy. But I am not worrying about that right now. Lets win the Ivy before we have that discussion.

I think we will learn a lot about this team's chances during the summer. If Gore and Hartord fully recover, the future is bright. If they do not, Cornell looks like another 2nd or 3rd place finisher.

I love your enthusiasm, but I think you are overly optimistic -- not about Cornell winning the Ivy title in 07-08, but in gaining more than a 14 seed or so. The win over Northwestern was nice, but they did finish at the bottom of the Big 10.

Just a bit technical, but the Wildcats actually finished tied at the bottom. But-- Northwestern had wins this year over Miami (Fla), DePaul, Utah, Penn State and Minnesota. They also lost by only 6 at home against then #3 Wisconsin. So... while Northwestern was not a good Big 10 team, this is still a team that is probably better than any of Cornell's Ivy or Patriot opponents.

Penn was an 11 seed in 1999, 2002 and 2003. I think Cornell can achieve a 12 or better seed as well-- but we'd have to win the League convincingly and not lose any bad non-conference games.

Frankly, I don't care about seeding. I just want us in the tournament. Anything can happen once you are in those brackets. And what Cornell has next year that Penn did not have this year-- is three-point shooting.

CornellFan
Just a bit technical, but the Wildcats actually finished tied at the bottom. But-- Northwestern had wins this year over Miami (Fla), DePaul, Utah, Penn State and Minnesota. They also lost by only 6 at home against then #3 Wisconsin. So... while Northwestern was not a good Big 10 team, this is still a team that is probably better than any of Cornell's Ivy or Patriot opponents.

That's not really all that convincing. Miami was clearly the worst team in the ACC, DePaul was mediocre, Utah was 11-19 and fired their coach, Penn State was the only Big Ten team as bad as Northwestern, and Minnesota was close (and actually performed WORSE out of conference than Northwestern, and also fired their coach). Northwestern was not a good basketball team. You've gotta win those games too, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

Penn was an 11 seed in 1999, 2002 and 2003. I think Cornell can achieve a 12 or better seed as well-- but we'd have to win the League convincingly and not lose any bad non-conference games.

Frankly, I don't care about seeding. I just want us in the tournament. Anything can happen once you are in those brackets. And what Cornell has next year that Penn did not have this year-- is three-point shooting.

I agree with you here. If Penn can be an 11 seed as a good Ivy League team, then so can Cornell.

Josh '99

Penn was an 11 seed in 1999, 2002 and 2003. I think Cornell can achieve a 12 or better seed as well-- but we'd have to win the League convincingly and not lose any bad non-conference games.

Frankly, I don't care about seeding. I just want us in the tournament. Anything can happen once you are in those brackets. And what Cornell has next year that Penn did not have this year-- is three-point shooting.

I agree with you here. If Penn can be an 11 seed as a good Ivy League team, then so can Cornell.

Of course seeding is part reputation and a team making its first appearence in two decades doesn't scream instant credibility. Presuming a similar array of OOC games, Cornell could put up an .990 winning percentage next year and wouldn't be an 11. Probably 13/14.

It's also worth remembering that Penn's SOS is buoyed somewhat by its Big 5 schedule. I'd rather play St. Joe's, Temple, LaSalle, and Villanova every year (plus Drexel two blocks away) than the likes of Ithaca, Binghamton, Hartford, Colgate and Stony Brook. Hell, we even played Clarkson one year (Hi, RichS).

Josh '99
I agree with you here. If Penn can be an 11 seed as a good Ivy League team, then so can Cornell.

Unlikely if only because not only has Penn historically won many of their OOC games, they have scheduled much more aggressively than Cornell. The Big 5 series gives Penn games against Villanova, St. Joe's, LaSalle and Temple; they also play Drexel. This year their full OOC also included road games at UNC, Syracuse, Seton Hall and UTEP.

Cornell's only OOC games of any note were Northwestern and Bucknell (who was probably expected to be just another Patriot league team when the game was scheduled).

Even if Cornell puts together a team as talented as Penn's best squads (and Cornell will never have a pair as good as Allen/Maloney) they still won't get a seed as high as 11. Remember, this year VCU was an 11! They won 27 games in a conference that sent FOUR teams to the postseason (2 NCAA and 2 NIT) and has a level of play the Ivies haven't approached since Chuck Daly was coaching at Penn.

Chris '03
Of course seeding is part reputation and a team making its first appearence in two decades doesn't scream instant credibility. Presuming a similar array of OOC games, Cornell could put up an .990 winning percentage next year and wouldn't be an 11. Probably 13/14.

It's also worth remembering that Penn's SOS is buoyed somewhat by its Big 5 schedule. I'd rather play St. Joe's, Temple, LaSalle, and Villanova every year (plus Drexel two blocks away) than the likes of Ithaca, Binghamton, Hartford, Colgate and Stony Brook. Hell, we even played Clarkson one year (Hi, RichS).

Both good points. It'd help if we could keep Syracuse on the schedule every year (we didn't play them this year), at least.

Princeton was also a 5 seed just a few years ago. Bucknell was also a high seed last year.

Chris '03
Cornell could put up an .990 winning percentage next year

That's one hell of a long season.

CornellFan
Princeton was also a 5 seed just a few years ago. Bucknell was also a high seed last year.

Bucknell's 2007 OOC: @ Albany (returning Am East champ); Wake Forest (ACC); @ St. Joe's, @ Xavier (A10); @ Penn St. (Big 10); @ George Mason (CAA: returning Final Four team); @ Texas Tech (Big 12); @ N. Iowa (MVC).

Bucknell's 2006 OOC: @Syracuse, @ DePaul, Villanova (Big East); St. Joes (A10); @ Santa Clara (WCC); @ Duke (ACC); N. Iowa (MVC).

As for Princeton's 5 seed, don't even dare to dream like that. They went 26-1 with this schedule.

ugarte

CornellFan
Princeton was also a 5 seed just a few years ago. Bucknell was also a high seed last year.

Bucknell's 2007 OOC: @ Albany (returning Am East champ); Wake Forest (ACC); @ St. Joe's, @ Xavier (A10); @ Penn St. (Big 10); @ George Mason (CAA: returning Final Four team); @ Texas Tech (Big 12); @ N. Iowa (MVC).

Bucknell's 2006 OOC: @Syracuse, @ DePaul, Villanova (Big East); St. Joes (A10); @ Santa Clara (WCC); @ Duke (ACC); N. Iowa (MVC).

As for Princeton's 5 seed, don't even dare to dream like that. They went 26-1 with this schedule.

Pfft. Couldn't win @ UNC. Soft.

ugarte
As for Princeton's 5 seed, don't even dare to dream like that. They went 26-1 with this schedule.

Good God.

Best Ivy team ever? (I know, there were final four teams as recently as 1979, but the quality of the field was much less then, too.)