Sports Information Dep't fails Cornell fans

Used to be the job of the Cornell SID (sports information director) was to hand out 5x7 glossies of the players and updated stat sheets. That and make sure women didn't get into the press box. Women were banned through the early 1970s at Schoellkopf, I believe, but banned only if you were working press; it was okay for the AD's wife to sit there and keep warm.

With the advent of the Internet, you no longer need information filtered through the eyes of a newspaper writer a day or week later. You could listen on mulitple radio broadcasts if more than one broadcast was allowed. There's lametracker. Sorry, Gametracker. There'll be during-the-game fan posts from Lynah or Newman or Friedman (surprised we don't see more of that).

You can watch every game yourself if there were a video feed. And that's where Cornell is falling down. If there's not a video webcast from every home or road Cornell basketball, football, hockey, wrestling, or lacrosse match, Cornell's SID ought to arrange to make it happen. Because sports information has changed from handing out black and white photos and pouring really crappy coffee and making nice with the journalists who'll get you the information indirectly ... to providing it directly, because now they can, if only they would. At worst, there's a video camera recording a wide-angle view of the action for the coaching staff and players.

Plus, it would be a recruiting tool (for as long as Cornell had this kind of advantage more or less exclusively): If every game is available as a webcast, home or away, that's going to be an even better lure to the family of Matt Moulson when Matt's younger brother decides where to play hockey. The players parents and family get to follow along all season long, not just the few games they see in person. It doesn't have to stop with football, hockey, hoops, and lax. It could extend to soccer, fencing, wrestling, volleyball - if not every sport initially, at least a lot of them. The costs aren't zero, but they're not significant, either. You could probably even arrange with Industrial Light & Magic to add an algorithm to wipe out, on the fly, offensive Indian jersey mascots were we playing North Dakota. Oops, sorry, this is the Big Red, not Big Green.

Cornell's sports information department is failing us because they're thinking inside that traditional box: from mimeographed stat sheets to online stat sheets, glossy photos to online jpg photos. But not taking the event itself directly to the fans. If they're thinking bigger thoughts such as putting all major sports events on the web as live video, they haven't shared that plan yet.

Cost is an issue but it's not really an issue. Alumni and friends have historically been generous to Cornell sports, probably because it's easier to see the fruits of your labor than by donating more microscopes and seeing a few more biology majors get into Hopkins Medical five years from now.

I agree 100% with everything you said.

One historical note: when I was on the men's fencing team from 91-93, we had a feeling that we were in danger of being eliminated, so we (our coaches, anyway) looked into starting a fundraising campaign to create a specific endowment to fund the team. We were told that we were not allowed to do an endowment campaign at the time, because the university-wide 125th anniversary $1.25B campaign was going on at the same time and they didn't want sub-groups distracting from that.

With the $4B Far Above campaign going on right now, I wonder if athletics would even be allowed to try to raise an endowment for broadcasting Cornell sports.

Robb
I agree 100% with everything you said. One historical note: when I was on the men's fencing team from 91-93, we had a feeling that we were in danger of being eliminated, so we (our coaches, anyway) looked into starting a fundraising campaign to create a specific endowment to fund the team. We were told that we were not allowed to do an endowment campaign at the time, because the university-wide 125th anniversary $1.25B campaign was going on at the same time and they didn't want sub-groups distracting from that. With the $4B Far Above campaign going on right now, I wonder if athletics would even be allowed to try to raise an endowment for broadcasting Cornell sports.

A university that promises instruction in any study ought to have sports in every field. The don't-ask-for-money-we've-got-a-major-fund-drive-under-way refrain politely masks the duration of fund drives: between the planning, the quiet phase (when Cornell still raised a billion or so), and the campaign itself, it seems as if Ezra's Billions is barely over before Far Above kicks in. Personally, I don't give a rap if fencing lives or dies. Just as you probably don't care if the Cornell Sun, my favorite charity, comes or goes, or my fraternity. Except that all our little societies together make up the majesty of Cornell, and we're the poorer for it when a part of us dies. I admire some of the groups that support undergrads, starting with the marching band alumni.

On the point of Cornell and webcasting more sports, if somebody presented it as accomplished (and funded) fact to the department, they'd go along. Al DeFlorio would like to see next weekend's wrestling match vs. Penn State (in Ithaca) be webcast. I would love to see the hockey-at-Harvard game webcast. Really, how hard could it be? How expensive? If it's an event nobody wants to commercially broadcast (like a CSTV), Harvard can't ask for rights fees.

Robb
One historical note: when I was on the men's fencing team from 91-93, we had a feeling that we were in danger of being eliminated, so we (our coaches, anyway) looked into starting a fundraising campaign to create a specific endowment to fund the team. We were told that we were not allowed to do an endowment campaign at the time, because the university-wide 125th anniversary $1.25B campaign was going on at the same time and they didn't want sub-groups distracting from that.

First of all, there's extremely good logic in asking units not to go maverick. Cornell's development operation is extremely sophisticated, at least at the higher levels - and whenever someone has significant potential to make a difference to Cornell, someone is assigned to oversee Cornell's relationship with that person. The decision about when to ask someone, for what purpose, and for how much is also primarily driven by what the alum has demonstrated to be the right timing and the right priorities. So when a campaign is underway - really, frankly, anytime at all - they need to know that nobody is going to make an approach at the wrong time, for the wrong purpose, and for the wrong amount. In the fencing team's case, if the Athletics Development office could have made a case that there were people who probably wouldn't give to anything except fencing, there might have been a way to do it, but I'm sure they had their hands full at the time as well.

Robb
With the $4B Far Above campaign going on right now, I wonder if athletics would even be allowed to try to raise an endowment for broadcasting Cornell sports.

Even as far outside the loop as I've gotten, I'm reasonably certain they don't already consider such an endowment to be a priority. However...

Hypothetically, if an alum approached Athletics with the suggestion that he would be willing to fund online video streaming of Cornell varsity sports, and it was clear he was both capable of doing it and not really interested in putting the money into other Cornell priorities, someone would probably notice. I obviously can't say what the result of someone noticing would be. Cornell could very well decide that they don't want to commit to doing those casts themselves; just because someone offers Cornell money for something doesn't mean they will necessarily want that something.

But to get started, what that alum would need to know, basically, is about how much it would cost per year, and then multiply that by about twenty to get a sense of how big the endowment would have to be.

Hypothetically.

billhoward
On the point of Cornell and webcasting more sports, if somebody presented it as accomplished (and funded) fact to the department, they'd go along. Al DeFlorio would like to see next weekend's wrestling match vs. Penn State (in Ithaca) be webcast. I would love to see the hockey-at-Harvard game webcast. Really, how hard could it be? How expensive? If it's an event nobody wants to commercially broadcast (like a CSTV), Harvard can't ask for rights fees.

Presumably, Harvard has the right to decide who can broadcast from their facility. In addition, if Cornell charged viewers, Harvard would most certainly be able to ask for rights fees. And finally, if Cornell were using Harvard resources to do the cast - e.g., their bandwidth - Harvard could absolutely charge them for those resources.

Colleges may charge ~$100 for a press-box telephone, ISDN, or network connection for radio broadcasts. $100 would buy a lot of video bandwidth, too. Harvard could ask for rights fees on top, but for minor sports are there any to be had? When faced with a request to do a webcast back to Ithaca, Harvard would ask, "What's in it for Harvard?" and decide, "Not much.” Colleges encourage discovery by students and traveling the road not taken but that doesn't apply to day-in, day-out college administration. Harvard doesn't have precedent to say yes, so the answer would be no.

If an eLynah consortium asked to do a webcast, the likely response would be, "Buzz off," or enough rules and stipulations to make it impractical. If WHCU said it wanted to stream video along with its audiocast, Harvard would have to think a little harder of a way to say no, and even harder if Cornell itself wanted to do a videocast as a sports information service to the Cornell and college hockey communities, especially for the players' parents and hockey alumni. Eventually webcasts of most all sports events, home and away, will be the norm, I believe, but in 10 years, not by Feb. 24 in Cambridge.

billhoward
Harvard could ask for rights fees on top, but for minor sports are there any to be had?

Hence "if Cornell charged viewers." Anytime money is made by the party granted rights, the grantor is more than reasonably entitled to ask for a cut.

Call the videocast "shareware" or "open source video." Don't charge, do accept contributions. Help keep Harvard's endowment under $30B.

By the way, if we want to get the ball rolling before Harvard, here's good news: the domain www.flyingfishvideo.com remains available. www.ffvideo.com is not, but that URL could be misconstrued.

billhoward
Call the videocast "shareware" or "open source video." Don't charge, do accept contributions. Help keep Harvard's endowment under $30B.

And if contributions don't cover the cost?

Plus, remember, if Cornell is actually the party doing it, the contributions have to be official donations to Cornell run through the development office to Athletics with all proper accounting.

Just trying to be realistic, here. You seem to be pie-in-the-sky-ing everything. "Just do it" is great for personal motivation, not so much for changing the way a large organization does business.

Beeeej
First of all, there's extremely good logic in asking units not to go maverick.

I didn't say that there was bad logic involved - I just stated a fact (that we were not allowed to start an endowment campaign) without any judgements one way or the other.

Robb

Beeeej
First of all, there's extremely good logic in asking units not to go maverick.

I didn't say that there was bad logic involved - I just stated a fact (that we were not allowed to start an endowment campaign) without any judgements one way or the other.

And whether ot not it makes sense from the standpoint of the overall University it's still unfortunate for the smaller units.

Robb

Beeeej
First of all, there's extremely good logic in asking units not to go maverick.

I didn't say that there was bad logic involved - I just stated a fact (that we were not allowed to start an endowment campaign) without any judgements one way or the other.

I didn't say you said that. I just thought it might be worth a more in-depth look for the people who inferred a judgment or thought the Development office was being unnecessarily draconian or unreasonable.

Beeeej
I didn't say you said that.

I knew you were going to say that!

I realize your comments were about the SID's role in promoting Cornell sports in general, but since 99.999999% of my interest in Cornell sports is limited to men's hockey, my comments are directed to that.

We, the online Lynah Faithful, have the interest, time, focus, knowledge and resources to do as much or more for Cornell hockey than the SID, AD and the university combined. While it is unfortunate that the university's poorly conceived and even more poorly executed deal with CSTV prohibits us from setting up and providing online audio and video access to the games themselves, that is really the only restriction on us. We could, with coordination, produce a Cornell-centric version of USCHO -- contact alumni players, publish interviews, promote the team. Many of us already provide various web support for Cornell fans -- this forum, a strictly private affair created and maintained in spite of direct administration hostility, is a testament to the superiority of private efforts over official, blessed efforts. Cornell provides nothing comparable for any CU sport than one alumnus and a handful of contributors do.

If we identify goals, pick a leadership group, commit resources, and work with or, if necessary, around the university and athletic department, we can do a far superior job promoting Cornell hockey than a handful of well-meaning but over-worked and underpaid administrators and their rotating brigade of undergrad interns. The sum of the abilities of the alumni community dwarfs the sum of the abilities of university employees. And this focus would also prevent work from being dissipated by the official university policies.

The point is the same as anybody who has worked one day at one job in the actual real world has discovered: Cornell as an institution is cute and all, but the moment it gets in the way it is no longer interesting or valuable. We can just identify the work and get on with it. Just copyright everything so they can't steal it later.

eLynah would be the ideal framework for a site that could, as you said, "contact alumni players, publish interviews, promote the team." Unless there's so much hostility on the part of Cornell directed at eLynah, as opposed to indifference.

No reason eLynah or the Cornell Hockey Assn. couldn't set up a video operation for home and perhaps away games in the spirit of supporting Cornell hockey win or tie. Remember though that the Cornell deal with CSTV also calls for CSTV to run Cornell's sports website, serve up ads, etcetera. Not that that's hard to do, either. Cornell just needs to be reminded of all the people who started successful businesses while in college or just out.

A half-a-loaf solution would be if Cornell strikes a tougher bargain with CSTV this time around and sets some QOS standards CSTV has to meet to keep the contract in force.

Wow, this thought is so wrong on so many levels, it's hard to know where to even start....

First off, Cornell was one of the first schools around the country to even do university sponsored live video. So, to say that the SID is failing fans by thinking inside the box couldn't be farther from the truth.

Beeeej is right: other schools will request a rights fee first off since the university is making some money off it (obviously not enough to cover costs, but still). And on top of the rights fees, there's production costs; do you really want Cornell hiring Harvard students producing a webcast for your game? So now you're talking about sending a video production crew on the road - more costs (travel, lodging, meals). Contrary to what you might believe, cost is a HUGE factor. If you're talking about broadcasting every event, home and away, you're going to need a hell of a lot more cameras.

Cornell does exchange with other schools for the video rights; I watched the women's basketball game from Princeton on Friday night from Ithaca. When Princeton comes here, I'm sure they share the feed with Princeton. They've shown they're willing to work with other schools - only other schools haven't shown the same cooperation.

Proving that you know nothing, Cornell has broadcast each home wrestling meet this season, and did the final games of the season for volleyball. Obviously, you've never been to the soccer field, because if you had, you'd realize there's no power or internet connection at the field, making it hard to broadcast a game.

As far as CSTV goes.... They're owned by CBS, which also owns Showtime. Which do you think they care more about, Showtime or CSTV? And before you try and slam their decision to use that company, have you SEEN what else is out there? Have you seen the crap program that Harvard/Dartmouth/Princeton/Columbia use? I'm sure your response to that would be that Cornell should do it in-house. Well, I work in website design-the startup costs would double the athletic department's current debt. And then, you'd still whine and bitch that the athletic department is too cheap to use a national company like the other major programs around the country do. Basically, what I'm saying is, nothing they can do will please you.

From what I've heard from Detzer in the hockey office, the campaign you guys started about six weeks ago to write letters to Andy Noel and the CHA yielded fewer than a dozen complaints - and most of them self-admitting that they don't actually subscribe to the All-Access program. I've also heard that the department loses upwards of $20,000 a year to provide the current lineup of audio and video. Yet you still claim it doesn't cost money....

The quality of stuff that comes out of the SID office is pretty good. The guides are good and the programs are good (let me guess, you probably don't buy those, either).

Obviously, you've got some type of personal beef with someone or something in the athletic department. I suggest you take it up with them. Or - even better, since you seem to think you know everything - try POLITELY talking with someone in the department about your ideas instead of attacking them constantly on a forum that, given your post, nobody can honestly take seriously.

I guess you haven't been around here too long, or you'd know that one of the primary reasons people around here complain about the poor quality of the current commercial offering that costs them money is that a fan used to do it better, and without charging. So we know for a fact that it could be done better, and for less money, than it's currently being done, despite the "professionals" who are supposedly doing it now.

But feel free to keep acting superior and smarmy about how little we know.

bandrews37
Proving that you know nothing, Cornell has broadcast each home wrestling meet this season...

Interesting comment from someone who acts like he knows everything.

There've been two home wrestling meets so far this season, and one (Ohio State) was not webcast. The webcast of the second (Penn State) was announced on CornellBigRed.com late in the evening the night before the meet (and five days AFTER billhoward's posting above noting the absence of wrestling videocasts). I suspect few even knew it was available. Without accompanying audio, you couldn't tell who was wrestling unless you were familiar with the rosters of both teams. I guess that's what you'd call "thinking outside the box."

You might also want to keep in mind that the first audio webcasts of Cornell hockey happened as a result of prodding by the regulars here on eLynah, and we kicked in funding to pay for the PC required to support those initial broadcasts.

Beeeej
So we know for a fact that it could be done better, and for less money, than it's currently being done, despite the "professionals" who are supposedly doing it now.

Don't try to confuse bandrews37 with your "facts." He knows everything there is to know about webcasting - just ask him!

We're not arguing that Cornell should do it in-house. We're arguing that Cornell should get out of the webcasting business altogether and let Age do it again - more reliable, for free, with better service, by someone who cares whether the viewers are getting what they want.

You can't argue that it can't be done. It has been done.

Sure, anyone can do it without charging when they are illegally using the university's resources. Age just started doing it, never asked for permission, and used whatever resources he felt like. I've heard that it wasn't athletics that requested he be shut down, it was the resources he was using over in Biotech.

Imagine where the whole thing would be if he'd approached someone in athletics about doing this, offering and volunteering his services. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, because they're not about to turn down someone offering to do something for free.

Like it or not, rules are rules. If they've got a set of rules, you've got to abide by them, no matter how ridiculous they are. There's NCAA rules considerations to be taken into account as well. My suspicion is that there was some NCAA rule that Age's broadcast would be in danger of violating.

My point is, don't just blame Cornell about the video - Age himself is also not without fault here. If he'd done things through the proper channels, maybe we'd be watching his glorious SANCTIONED feed tonight.

bandrews37
Sure, anyone can do it without charging when they are illegally using the university's resources. Age just started doing it, never asked for permission, and used whatever resources he felt like. I've heard that it wasn't athletics that requested he be shut down, it was the resources he was using over in Biotech.

Imagine where the whole thing would be if he'd approached someone in athletics about doing this, offering and volunteering his services. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen, because they're not about to turn down someone offering to do something for free.

Like it or not, rules are rules. If they've got a set of rules, you've got to abide by them, no matter how ridiculous they are. There's NCAA rules considerations to be taken into account as well. My suspicion is that there was some NCAA rule that Age's broadcast would be in danger of violating.

My point is, don't just blame Cornell about the video - Age himself is also not without fault here. If he'd done things through the proper channels, maybe we'd be watching his glorious SANCTIONED feed tonight.

Riiiiight. I'm sure Age just busted into the pressbox and spliced into the team's video camera without talking to anyone. And that nobody in athletics or biotech knew about it during its successful run.

Of course. That just makes so much more sense than any possible alternate explanation.

Bandrews37 then: It's soooo hard and costs zillions of dollars.

Bandrews37 now: It's so easy that anyone can do it. The university has plenty of resources - just get the permission and it's a done deal.

Which is it?

It's nice that Cornell offers some video of some sports events at home but not on the road, and that it works some of the time, for a fee. You can always fall back to audio. Others do less and others do it better and for free. Thank you, Clarkson video feed. Before Cornell stepped into the picture, it was done for free at Lynah. How much bandwidth did this suck up from Cornell's total bandwdidth? If it was on Friday and Saturday nights, that's probably not a time when IT resources are being strained.

The original point was that Cornell needs to think outside the traditional press box. Why shouldn't sports information go beyond the old-fashioned press-releases-and-stats mode now that it could provide sports information up to and including video of the games? It's not just for us eLynah blowhards. It's also a nice touch for player families who aren't as fortunate as the McKees to be able to move to Ithaca.

Cornell shouldn't worry about every single activity having to be revenue neutral. Whatever it costs, it shouldn't be that much. Case in point: Our class just kicked in a couple thousand dollars to start a Christopher Reeve scholarship fund. That seed funding has been matched and raised to about $50,000. Our class doesn't get any of the seed money back, so it wasn't revenue-neutral to the class, but it sure worked well for Cornell.

billhoward
It's nice that Cornell offers some video of some sports events at home but not on the road, and that it works some of the time, for a fee. You can always fall back to audio. Others do less and others do it better and for free. Thank you, Clarkson video feed.

Also, St. Lawrence had free video. You know, St. Lawrence University. That school with the huge computing resources. Oh wait.

To be fair, the past two seasons saw Dartmouth offering free video webcasts of their hockey games. They have moved to a pay service provided by either XOS or College Sports Direct, per the notice posted here:

[www.dartmouth.edu]

I can't vouch for the quality or reliability of the new Dartmouth service. Like we've been saying all along, most of us would gladly pay for a subscription that provides a good quality and reliable product.

RichH
I can't vouch for the quality or reliability of the new Dartmouth service. Like we've been saying all along, most of us would gladly pay for a subscription that provides a good quality and reliable product.

I'm at the point where fifty bucks a year isn't a big issue because it costs four times that to drive to Ithaca to have dinner, see a single game, and drive home, let alone staying overnight. But I hate to be taken advantage of, and indifferent service is a big turnoff. (CSTV doesn't even put much of a veneer on pretending to be sorry their service is so variable.)

Right now my hot buttons are getting our son into Cornell and seeing every home hockey game in person or on TV. Since the kid's not yet out of middle school, button No. 1 needs to be on the back burner. I'm worried Cornell and CSTV have quality video in the same place.

Yeah, how'd you like those 75 streams from good ol' SLU? You know, the same limit that won't even allow one section's worth of people at Lynah to view the feed?

And if you you think Cornell's feed is bad, whoo boy, just wait until you try Dartmouth's.... yeesh.... I've checked out their feeds, they make CSTV look like HDTV on a 72 inch plasma screen.

bandrews37
And if you you think Cornell's feed is bad, whoo boy, just wait until you try Dartmouth's.... yeesh.... I've checked out their feeds, they make CSTV look like HDTV on a 72 inch plasma screen.

How does that fantastic CSTV feed look on your Mac or Linux box?

bandrews37
Yeah, how'd you like those 75 streams from good ol' SLU? You know, the same limit that won't even allow one section's worth of people at Lynah to view the feed?

And if you you think Cornell's feed is bad, whoo boy, just wait until you try Dartmouth's.... yeesh.... I've checked out their feeds, they make CSTV look like HDTV on a 72 inch plasma screen.

Your attitude seems to be that the Cornell feed is the best thing since sliced bread and we should just shut up and enjoy it. Sorry, it's not. Folks here have legitimate complaints about the service that could be remedied if CSTV or Cornell cared enough to do so. The fact that other schools have problems with their feeds/services doesn't change this fact. As paying customers (well I'm not, but many of us are) we have a right to expect good service.

bandrews37
Yeah, how'd you like those 75 streams from good ol' SLU? You know, the same limit that won't even allow one section's worth of people at Lynah to view the feed?

I enjoyed it a lot. I had no problem connecting, disconnecting, and reconnecting. I didn't even know there was a stream limit until I read about it here.

And if you you think Cornell's feed is bad, whoo boy, just wait until you try Dartmouth's.... yeesh.... I've checked out their feeds, they make CSTV look like HDTV on a 72 inch plasma screen.

Well, if it's anything like the Quicktime feed they used for the last 2 seasons (for free), it must be quite good. And cross platform to boot. One Saturday evening 2 years ago, I had video up from Clarkson and Dartmouth (both muted) while listening to Cornell's opponent's free audio. What a way to keep tabs on action around the league! It's a shame Cornell's Athletic Department opted to quit trying.

One of the Cornell goals for the Far Above campaign, the one that wants $4 billion from alumni and friends (let's figure in the eLynah share and then add a 15% tip), is that Cornell will be the best (best apparently as in world's best) undergraduate education that can be had at a research university. I would hope that means excellence in everything Cornell does. Including the bleeping video feed.

billhoward
One of the Cornell goals for the Far Above campaign, the one that wants $4 billion from alumni and friends (let's figure in the eLynah share and then add a 15% tip), is that Cornell will be the best (best apparently as in world's best) undergraduate education that can be had at a research university. I would hope that means excellence in everything Cornell does. Including the bleeping video feed.

See, please, just about every other post I've ever made regarding development and specialized athletics projects. I can practically guarantee you: This is not a priority for the Far Above Campaign. But if someone approached the university with it, they would at least have to consider whether to make it a priority.