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Cornell admissions

Posted by CAS 
Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 11:09AM

Director of Admissions Shawn Felton said Cornell received well over 71,000 total applications for next fall’s freshman class of 3,441. This would be another record, & up over 5% from last year. If Cornell had the same yield as last year (64.3%) for next fall’s class, the admit rate would fall to a record low of 7.5%.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2022 11:16AM by CAS.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: March 21, 2022 01:56PM

Dont all the new dorms go online next year? Will that mean an increase in kids they accept?
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 02:24PM

All the new dorms should be open next fall. Cornell has gradually increased class size the last few years. Next fall’s projected class size is actually smaller than the class that enrolled last fall.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 02:42PM

My understanding: North Campus expansion, +2,000 beds, 1,200 for first-years, 800 for sophomores.

Less sure, thought I heard this: The additional beds initially may allow Cornell to shutter an existing dorm for renovation, then another, then eventually the new dorms allow for ~1,200 additional students. It may be that's this year only while Balch Hall is being renovated and by fall 2022 all 2,000 rooms are for new students or sophomores who want to stay on campus.

Sample layout for first-years: [ncre.cornell.edu]
Suite-style rooms
5-6 students per suite
1-2 double rooms
2-3 single rooms
Restrooms include:
1 shower
2 toilets
3 sinks

Sample layout for sophomores:
Suite-style rooms
5-6 students per suite
1-2 double rooms
2-3 single rooms
Restrooms include:
1 shower
2 toilets
3 sinks

Neither sample layout appeared to have a living room or central social area within each suite. I'm sure there are studies about whether students are bettered by going beyond the boundaries of their own suites and into common areas for all socializing of more than 2-3 people.

One good thing about these suites: Better bathroom layout. BU ~15 years ago built a gorgeous high-rise with a Charles River view, combination of singles and doubles in ~6-person suites, living room, some cooking facilities in each unit, but the one toilet and one shower was in the same room. Cornell appears to separate shower (1) from toilets (2) from sinks (2).
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 04:42PM

Starting next fall, Cornell is requiring all first-year students & sophomores to live on campus or in affiliated housing (e.g. co-ops & Greek housing).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2022 05:08PM by CAS.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 05:38PM

And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: March 21, 2022 05:54PM

CAS
Starting next fall, Cornell is requiring all first-year students & sophomores to live on campus or in affiliated housing (e.g. co-ops & Greek housing).

not a huge change though.. 60% of undergrads already lived on campus and a good number wanted to but there was no housing to get before all of this. i wonder how far back it was that most kids lived in campus vs off campus. 1950-70s what was the ratio?
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 06:10PM

As Cornell builds better dorms, students want to live there. Nothing wrong with being on campus if the housing is good, if you can have a single or a double, and Dining gives you choices in meal plans. Collegetown housing was crappier than dorms for many years, now it's better but not affordable. All the North Campus dorms built circa 1970 had very few singles and they were trying to attract upperclassmen, which is hard to do.

As peer institutions built nice dorms, Cornell did the same.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.44.98.30.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
Date: March 21, 2022 10:38PM

In '79, there was a lottery for the few on-campus rooms available to non-freshmen. If your number came up, you could pick your room and pull in any friends to fill the beds. But most people had to look for housing elsewhere. It's why there were so many fraternities.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 22, 2022 01:11AM

CAS
Starting next fall, Cornell is requiring all first-year students & sophomores to live on campus or in affiliated housing (e.g. co-ops & Greek housing).
Good.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 22, 2022 01:11AM

billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.
Better.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 22, 2022 01:15AM

I like the names, anyway.


Toni Morrison Hall and Ganedagp: Hall are part of phase one of this project. Barbara McClintock Hall, Hu Shih Hall, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg Hall are part of phase two and are planned to open fall 2022.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.sub-174-206-204.myvzw.com)
Date: March 22, 2022 02:10PM

It’s good that first-year students don’t need to search for Collegetown apartments soon after they arrive on campus. It’s amazing that Cornell now receives over 20 applications for each available spot in the first-year class, & may accept only 1 of every 13-14 applications.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: March 22, 2022 02:57PM

CAS
It’s amazing that Cornell now receives over 20 applications for each available spot in the first-year class, & may accept only 1 of every 13-14 applications.

Sure. "Amazing."
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 22, 2022 04:15PM

Alex Engler, Brookings Institution’s Artificial Intelligence and Emerging Technology (AIET) Initiative
Categorically, colleges should not use predicted likelihood to enroll in either the admissions process or in awarding need-based aid—these determinations should only be made based on the applicant’s merit and financial circumstances, respectively.
. . .
The prevailing evidence suggests that these algorithms generally reduce the amount of scholarship funding offered to students. Further, algorithms excel at identifying a student’s exact willingness to pay, meaning they may drive enrollment while also reducing students’ chances to persist and graduate.
I must be dense. A school wants to know the likelihood to enroll so it doesn't over-accept or under-accept. That's a good reason to do some predictive analysis.

Maybe the article was poorly worded here, but if there's an entering class of 1,000 and a first-years pot of $10,000,000 for scholarships, algorithms may adjust who gets how much but it averages $10K per student. The school doesn't pocket $2 million of the $10M because some students can be induced to enroll for less scholarship money per a smart software routine.

If Cornell is the admitted student's preferred and best choice (admitted to Cornell Engineering, say, but turned down by MIT), then they'll say the $5,000 offer (hoping for $10,000) is okay. A year later they'll be in, want later library hours, more crisis counseling and more scholarship money. Seems like human nature. But the $5,000 went to induce a similar student who appeared likely to be admitted to MIT and that extra money brought him to Cornell not to Cambridge. From Cornell's P.O.V. this was money well routed.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: George64 (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: April 03, 2022 05:00PM

CAS
Director of Admissions Shawn Felton said Cornell received well over 71,000 total applications for next fall’s freshman class of 3,441. This would be another record, & up over 5% from last year. If Cornell had the same yield as last year (64.3%) for next fall’s class, the admit rate would fall to a record low of 7.5%.

According to the WSJ, “The eight Ivy League schools notified prospective students of their fates Thursday evening. This year, only five will also say publicly what share of applicants actually got in.” The three not revealing acceptance rates now are Cornell, Princeton and Penn. Federal law, however, requires universities to report these data, which will become publicly available through the National Center for Education Statistics later this year.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Iceberg (---.tmodns.net)
Date: April 03, 2022 06:13PM

Yeah, Cornell has been postponing the release of that data for a few years now. It'll probably come out during the summer before the start of the next academic year.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2022 03:12PM

Cornell announced today that they admitted 4,908 students to the Class of 2026 (including early decision applicants). With over 71,000 applications, the admit rate fell below 7%. Interestingly 20% of admits were first-generation college students.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 11, 2022 05:03PM

cornell admissions is weird.. our local HS has had multiple kids #1 in the class by a mile try to get accepted at cornell, and we are a local school.. None of them got accepted.. but kids in the same class at the the bottom of the top 10-20 got accepted. The big difference is all of them came from much poorer families... And all of them dropped out with pretty much full rides by the end of yr 1..

kids with great grades, good SATs, played sports, band, clubs couldnt get in.. but the kids with OK grades, avg scores and no real interests in anything got in multiple times.. seems backwards.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 11, 2022 05:35PM

Your local experience doesn’t match Cornell’s overall numbers. 95% of entering freshmen graduate, & the median
SAT scores of last year’s entering class was 1510 (out of 1600). All the Ivies are currently standardized test optional, but 60+% of the enrolled Class of 2025 still submitted them.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 11, 2022 06:13PM

my experience and talking with lots of parents.. if you go to IHS/Lansing and have decent grades you can get in.. if you go to any of the smaller schools around you have to be in the niche they are looking for.. now if you are the kid of prof or sr admin no question what happens when you apply.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Weder (---.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
Date: April 12, 2022 09:22AM

upprdeck
my experience and talking with lots of parents.. if you go to IHS/Lansing and have decent grades you can get in.. if you go to any of the smaller schools around you have to be in the niche they are looking for.. now if you are the kid of prof or sr admin no question what happens when you apply.

Is that the case nowadays? I knew of several classmates at IHS who were children of professors who were rejected outright or given the guaranteed-transfer option. A couple did post-grad years to bolster their admissions chances.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: nshapiro (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 27, 2022 04:57PM

Trotsky
CAS
It’s amazing that Cornell now receives over 20 applications for each available spot in the first-year class, & may accept only 1 of every 13-14 applications.

Sure. "Amazing."
Eliminate the common app, make High Schoolers request an application that they have to put in a typewriter to fill out. You know, the good old days. That will cut down on applicants for sure.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 28, 2022 02:03PM

Ahh, the good old days that I remember. Cornell posts admission stats dating back to 1980. The total number of applications received this year are up over 300% compared to 1980 (71K vs 17K), while the total number of admits is actually down 10% this year vs 1980 (4,908 vs 5,456). How many of us older alums would be admitted if we applied today, with the admit rating falling to 6.9% from 32%.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2022 02:17PM by CAS.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: April 28, 2022 02:38PM

CAS
Ahh, the good old days that I remember. Cornell posts admission stats dating back to 1980. The total number of applications received this year are up over 300% compared to 1980 (71K vs 17K), while the total number of admits is actually down 10% this year vs 1980 (4,908 vs 5,456). How many of us older alums would be admitted if we applied today, with the admit rating falling to 6.9% from 32%.
And what if they are goosing it like everybody else? Farming applicants who are obviously deficient to drive that exclusivity rating. It's a wonderful scam.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2022 02:41PM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: French Rage (165.225.243.---)
Date: April 30, 2022 09:18PM

billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.

 
___________________________
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 01, 2022 08:00AM

French Rage
billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.
Good.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Robb (107.72.176.---)
Date: May 01, 2022 11:06AM

CAS
Ahh, the good old days that I remember. Cornell posts admission stats dating back to 1980. The total number of applications received this year are up over 300% compared to 1980 (71K vs 17K), while the total number of admits is actually down 10% this year vs 1980 (4,908 vs 5,456). How many of us older alums would be admitted if we applied today, with the admit rating falling to 6.9% from 32%.
The kids who were qualified to attend Ivies have always applied to Ivies. The relaxed admissions policies add applicants from he left end of the tail, but don’t materially raise admissions standards. The only thing that raises admissions standards is improvement in secondary schools - if they are improving their access to AP classes and are hiring more outstanding teachers who educate more and more students to be “Ivy League Quality” then THAT is what makes it harder to stand out and get in.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: French Rage (165.225.243.---)
Date: May 01, 2022 03:01PM

Trotsky
French Rage
billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.
Good.

So edgy.

 
___________________________
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: May 02, 2022 03:29PM

French Rage
Trotsky
French Rage
billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.
Good.

So edgy.
Not really. I had no idea kids were still buying their friends.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: French Rage (165.225.243.---)
Date: May 02, 2022 04:11PM

Trotsky
French Rage
Trotsky
French Rage
billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.
Good.

So edgy.
Not really. I had no idea kids were still buying their friends.

Ooh, and original too.

 
___________________________
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.net.cia.gov)
Date: May 02, 2022 04:22PM

French Rage
Trotsky
French Rage
Trotsky
French Rage
billhoward
And fraternities are down to about 28 houses. Had been up around 50, just not recently.

And requiring every house to have a live-in advisor with their own separate unit and bathroom is just an attempt to price more fraternities out of existence.
Good.

So edgy.
Not really. I had no idea kids were still buying their friends.

Ooh, and original too.

Again, not in the original claim.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: May 04, 2022 10:34AM

I disagree with Robb that the tremendous increase in applicants are of students who generally aren’t that outstanding. The last year that Cornell provided detailed analysis of the applicant pool was for the Class of 2023, when Cornell accepted fewer than 11% of applicants. In that year, the majority of applicants (not admits) had SATs higher than 1450. Since then applications have increased another 45% (and admit rate has declined to 6.9%).
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Robb (---.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 04, 2022 09:58PM

CAS
I disagree with Robb that the tremendous increase in applicants are of students who generally aren’t that outstanding. The last year that Cornell provided detailed analysis of the applicant pool was for the Class of 2023, when Cornell accepted fewer than 11% of applicants. In that year, the majority of applicants (not admits) had SATs higher than 1450. Since then applications have increased another 45% (and admit rate has declined to 6.9%).
Right, but did those additional 45% applicants drive the SAT average up or down? I expect it is the latter (but I don’t have any data, either)
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: May 04, 2022 10:15PM

Robb
CAS
I disagree with Robb that the tremendous increase in applicants are of students who generally aren’t that outstanding. The last year that Cornell provided detailed analysis of the applicant pool was for the Class of 2023, when Cornell accepted fewer than 11% of applicants. In that year, the majority of applicants (not admits) had SATs higher than 1450. Since then applications have increased another 45% (and admit rate has declined to 6.9%).
Right, but did those additional 45% applicants drive the SAT average up or down? I expect it is the latter (but I don’t have any data, either)
And is your definition of "outstanding" simply a high SAT score?
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: French Rage (165.225.243.---)
Date: May 04, 2022 11:16PM

David Harding
Robb
CAS
I disagree with Robb that the tremendous increase in applicants are of students who generally aren’t that outstanding. The last year that Cornell provided detailed analysis of the applicant pool was for the Class of 2023, when Cornell accepted fewer than 11% of applicants. In that year, the majority of applicants (not admits) had SATs higher than 1450. Since then applications have increased another 45% (and admit rate has declined to 6.9%).
Right, but did those additional 45% applicants drive the SAT average up or down? I expect it is the latter (but I don’t have any data, either)
And is your definition of "outstanding" simply a high SAT score?

No, but assuming they lack other objective metrics to compare across the entire body of applicants, it is probably the best one they have to illustrate the point, and probably one that correlates pretty well (albeit not perfectly, as none do) with other relevant metrics.

 
___________________________
03/23/02: Maine 4, Harvard 3
03/28/03: BU 6, Harvard 4
03/26/04: Maine 5, Harvard 4
03/26/05: UNH 3, Harvard 2
03/25/06: Maine 6, Harvard 1
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Robb (---.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 05, 2022 06:54AM

David Harding
Robb
CAS
I disagree with Robb that the tremendous increase in applicants are of students who generally aren’t that outstanding. The last year that Cornell provided detailed analysis of the applicant pool was for the Class of 2023, when Cornell accepted fewer than 11% of applicants. In that year, the majority of applicants (not admits) had SATs higher than 1450. Since then applications have increased another 45% (and admit rate has declined to 6.9%).
Right, but did those additional 45% applicants drive the SAT average up or down? I expect it is the latter (but I don’t have any data, either)
And is your definition of "outstanding" simply a high SAT score?
Um….you’re the one who introduced high SATs as an indicator that the applicant pool was strong. I’m simply speculating about which direction *your own* metric changed as the number of applicants increased.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 05, 2022 06:29PM

It should also be noted that SATs, grades, and nearly all objective measures of "merit" can be goosed by the kind of full court press rich parents give their adorable little Karens and Kens in tutors and classes not to mention their being sheltered from the real life problems that every other kid has to contend with.

There's a reason the wealthy replicate themselves in each succeeding Ivy class. And that reason is not genetics.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2022 06:31PM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 07, 2022 12:07PM

I used one objective measure (high SAT scores) for a recent class (2023) to demonstrate that a substantial increase in the number of applicants may bring more qualified applicants (not uncompetitive ones).
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: Robb (---.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 08, 2022 06:26PM

CAS
I used one objective measure (high SAT scores) for a recent class (2023) to demonstrate that a substantial increase in the number of applicants may bring more qualified applicants (not uncompetitive ones).
Sorry, but you did no such thing. You provided two independent facts: the average SAT scores for the class of 23, and the fact that 4 years later the class of 27 has 45% more applicants. Those two facts are not enough to establish any sort of relationship, not even a correlation, between the number of applicants and the average SAT scores.
 
Re: Cornell admissions
Posted by: CAS (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: May 08, 2022 06:36PM

Applications had already increased materially in recent years, leading to an admit rate of below 11% for the Class of 2023. We don’t have the same data for the Class of 2026 (not 2027). You suggest many new applicants are less qualified, (not just for the class just admitted, but other recent classes), while providing no data.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2022 06:56PM by CAS.
 

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