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Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust

Posted by Ben Rocky '04 
Page: Previous123 4 
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Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 18, 2024 11:46PM

Sophisticated in Collegetown? Another new try. [ithacavoice.org]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 19, 2024 10:43AM

That has to be a brothel.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: pfibiger (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 19, 2024 11:45AM

RichH
David Harding
Kilpatrick's Pub downtown is closing, to be replaced by another (unnamed) "pub-style establishment" in a few months. [www.14850.com] [ithacavoice.org]

Not the Finger lakes Beverage Center too!! That’s a loss I’ll feel. That was a great shop.

Ugh. I stopped in there every summer. The selection was so much better than wegmans or p&c. That sucks.

 
___________________________
Phil Fibiger '01
[www.fibiger.org]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Weder (104.28.76.---)
Date: January 19, 2024 12:35PM

pfibiger
RichH
David Harding
Kilpatrick's Pub downtown is closing, to be replaced by another (unnamed) "pub-style establishment" in a few months. [www.14850.com] [ithacavoice.org]

Not the Finger lakes Beverage Center too!! That’s a loss I’ll feel. That was a great shop.

Ugh. I stopped in there every summer. The selection was so much better than wegmans or p&c. That sucks.

Ithaca Coffee Company in Triphammer Mall has a pretty strong beer selection, though obviously a much smaller space than Finger Lakes.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2024 12:37PM by Weder.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: January 19, 2024 01:53PM

David Harding
Sophisticated in Collegetown? Another new try. [ithacavoice.org]

Looking at the Menu I dont see myself having a reason to every go there.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: January 27, 2024 02:21PM

Not Collegetown and just for sale, but one could be concerned about the fate of Chanticleer. [www.14850.com]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Scersk '97 (216.49.132.---)
Date: January 28, 2024 02:36AM

David Harding
Not Collegetown and just for sale, but one could be concerned about the fate of Chanticleer. [www.14850.com]

They say that there are no plans to close the bar, and I'm happy to hear it, because losing the Chanticleer would be a stake in my heart. It's one of the last remnants of "old Ithaca" revelry.

With Johnny's, the Palms, the one I can't even mention without getting very, very sad, and others gone, there's so little left. It's like the Chanticleer and the Creeker and that's it.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 29, 2024 09:08PM

Scersk '97
With Johnny's, the Palms, the one I can't even mention without getting very, very sad, and others gone, there's so little left. It's like the Chanticleer and the Creeker and that's it.
Where is historic preservation when you need it?

I'd rather the Palms still be around than, say, the snail darter. Which actually is still around although a Tennessee dam that threatened them was built.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 31, 2024 10:16AM

Let's posit that dive bars were authentic in the 40s-60s and nostalgic in the 70s-90s, with dive bars themselves being a bar food echo of road houses (00s-20s / 30s-50s).

If that's true, that seems like a natural lifespan, and from the 00s on it dies off to be replaced by something else.

Oswald Spengler should have written more about bars.

Something else replaced these, as culture never sleeps. I don't know if that's the club scene (evolved from discos) or what -- I have the Critical Old.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2024 10:18AM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Cop at Lynah (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 31, 2024 04:44PM

The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 31, 2024 06:52PM

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk
That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

 
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 31, 2024 10:52PM

Trotsky
Let's posit that dive bars were authentic in the 40s-60s and nostalgic in the 70s-90s, with dive bars themselves being a bar food echo of road houses (00s-20s / 30s-50s). ...
Dive bar" may take on a different name so students / young adults / slackers have something their own. Still: There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: January 31, 2024 11:01PM

billhoward
There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

Oh, definitely. But those places are in poor neighborhoods, not well-scrubbed collegetowns. And they're real, they're not Slumming Adventureland. So they aren't dive bars, they're real bars with real people. Albany has a dozen of them, and no college student -- possibly no college graduate -- has ever been in one. The people there are not there because Let's Go To A Dive Bar (giggle). They're there because late stage capitalism is soul destroying and getting drunk is cheaper than a streaming service.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2024 11:02PM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (181.236.156.---)
Date: February 01, 2024 02:43PM

ugarte
Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk
That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Scersk '97 (216.49.132.---)
Date: February 01, 2024 04:57PM

Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 01, 2024 07:07PM

Jeff Hopkins '82
ugarte
Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk
That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.
were you that upset about them enforcing a rule. Did you go complain when a grocery store wouldnt let you buy beer? or when the DMV made you wait until your birthday to get your permit?
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Iceberg (---.tmodns.net)
Date: February 01, 2024 08:14PM

I can't recall all the details about bars and door people but ~10 years ago, Level B was always the place that people who were underaged would avoid from what I personally saw and heard. Dunbar's was in the middle I would say with a certain other place that no longer exists being perhaps the most lenient.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2024 08:54PM

Scersk '97
Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.

Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.

This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass. One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.

She's a minister now, LOL.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2024 08:55PM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 01, 2024 09:04PM

Jeff Hopkins '82
ugarte
Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk
That ain't the Dunbars I remember but my housemates took me to the Palms the night I was going to turn 21 and the bouncers made me wait until after midnight.

Ruloff's refused to serve me twoi days before my 18th birthday. I went back two days later, had a beer and never went back again.

FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.
When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

 
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 02, 2024 09:44AM

ugarte
When I was 19 and very semitically babyfaced, my roommate gave me a driver's license that he found in the back of a cab that told the Dunbar's bartender that I was ashy blonde, 27 and 6'5".

McLovin is 42.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2024 09:46AM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: February 20, 2024 08:40PM

Cop at Lynah
The Collegetown bar scene came under siege of the ABC board in the late 90's and continued through the early 2000's At that time Avarmis owned the most frequented bars in college town and his establishments were targeted for enforcement on many occasions by the ABC Board. I was part of those enforcement activities and the fines that the ABC Board doled out made it almost impossible for Avarmis to keep the bars open. The older established operations such as Jhonney O's, Dunbars, Psalms and Chapter House were less targeted because (in my mind) their owners actually cared about the laws and were deterred by the possibility of sanctions if caught serving under age patrons. After several years it appeared the business model for Collegetown establishments weren't worth the liability and financial risk

One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.

 
___________________________
JTW

Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: February 20, 2024 08:42PM

Trotsky
billhoward
There has to be a bar type for people down on their money and bar owners cutting corners on upkeep, bathroom cleaning, lighting, and the food. (Pickled eggs are a food.) Add a couple shady characters and you have the dive bar again. Even debutantes will stop in a couple times to see how the others live and maybe they spy a hunk who appears to have showered.

Oh, definitely. But those places are in poor neighborhoods, not well-scrubbed collegetowns. And they're real, they're not Slumming Adventureland. So they aren't dive bars, they're real bars with real people. Albany has a dozen of them, and no college student -- possibly no college graduate -- has ever been in one. The people there are not there because Let's Go To A Dive Bar (giggle). They're there because late stage capitalism is soul destroying and getting drunk is cheaper than a streaming service.

We had one of those about a block from my apartment in New Orleans, but I was always to chicken to go in. But now they have a website, so they're probably not a real dive bar either: [snakeandjakes.com]

 
___________________________
JTW

Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: billhoward (185.195.59.---)
Date: February 21, 2024 02:00PM

Trotsky
Scersk '97
Jeff Hopkins '82
FWIW, Dunbar's was very thorough about checking IDs when I was a student.
Back when we had a more rational drinking age, I suspect a great many bars were much more thorough in checking IDs. Separating the high-school crowd from the college crowd makes sense; separating the college crowd from itself never really has.
This is true in theory, but back when it was 18 they followed the Categorical Imperative: card men, let women pass. One of my undergrad friend's little sisters used to drink with us at Chariot at 15, and she looked young for 15. Also used to go topless at SCA events at Risley. It was a very different time.
She's a minister now, LOL.
a) When NJ Wall Streeter Jon Corzine ran for governor, he was asked what he thought about the drinking age being raised to 21? Corzine said: It was? then recovered and thoughtfully said, Well, if you can get your ass shot off in Afghanistan Iraq Vietnam you name, you ought to be able to have a drink. ... this commonsense comment get him in hot water and a day later he said he had been miscontrued, which he had not.
b) Historically, good looking women got an age allowance on admission, and big city bars with velvet ropes and bouncers would let good women pass the line ahead of others, sometimes also raising the F/M ratio to 55/45 or so, making men more desirous of getting in.
c) which church is this? are they looking for members?
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: billhoward (185.195.59.---)
Date: February 21, 2024 02:03PM

For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920

1933: 2118, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment). [edit add: Wiki pegs the end of prohibition as resuming the NYS 18-year drinking age.]
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2024 12:00PM by billhoward.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: 75er (104.28.203.---)
Date: February 21, 2024 05:43PM

Drinking age was actually lowered to 18 in 1971. Had my first legal beer at Noyes Center in October 71
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: marty (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 21, 2024 07:09PM

billhoward
For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong. I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18. Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 22, 2024 01:10PM

marty
billhoward
For history's sake, New York's drinking age:

<1896, 16
1896-1920, 18 until Prohibition in 1920
1933: 21, with the end of Prohibition (21st Amendment)
1973: 18, with the lowering of the voting age to 18 (26th Amendment)
1982: 19, with concerns for traffic safety Due to a high number of state driving fatalities
1984: 21, raised "voluntarily" by NYS, after Congress passed the National Minimum Drinking Age Act that required states to increase their drinking age to 21, or they would lose 10% of their highway funds.

This is so wrong. I was drinking in a neighborhood bar in 1969 at age 17 because my friend, the Boy Scout Program Director for our camp, told the owner my buddies and I were 18. Those 16 and under were left out.

The date prior to 1969 when the legal age was set 18 in NY is a mystery to me as it was all I ever knew in the days before I imbibed.

I also have vivid memories of the guy from Cleveland who roomed across the hall from me being almost carried back to his UHall 2303 room after his first night of legal drinking in September 1970.
It was already 18 when I was a freshman in 1964.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 22, 2024 03:38PM

ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: marty (217.138.255.---)
Date: February 22, 2024 03:43PM

upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust - drinking age NYS
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: February 22, 2024 03:49PM

marty
upprdeck
ny state says it was 18 since 1933. the national age became 21 in 1933 but states could go lower

Pass me a Genny Cream!

my experience it was more like 16 until the 80s
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 22, 2024 08:54PM

billhoward
c) which church is this?

Unitarian Universalist. Of course.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: billhoward (155.133.4.---)
Date: February 27, 2024 12:41PM

jtwcornell91
One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.
There is a belief that some bars try to keep out people beyond their 20s, certainly their 30s, and they'll reject you for not having a license. The bouncer is told to say, "We treat everyone equally, have to show ID." There have been a couple cases where someone obviously over 21 who left his ID at home or in the car, has sued, perhaps mostly because he's pissed off, and the courts have agreed. It happened to me in my early 30s in Northampton, Mass., a clearly college community, and they used the line "we card everybody." This is an era before people learned to mouth the words I Want to Speak to Your Manager. So you could be rejected at a higher level.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: February 28, 2024 01:34PM

billhoward
jtwcornell91
One time in my 30s I was nearly clotheslined by the bouncer at the Chapter House because it didn't occur to me that I would need to show my ID while strolling in the front door.
There is a belief that some bars try to keep out people beyond their 20s, certainly their 30s, and they'll reject you for not having a license. The bouncer is told to say, "We treat everyone equally, have to show ID." There have been a couple cases where someone obviously over 21 who left his ID at home or in the car, has sued, perhaps mostly because he's pissed off, and the courts have agreed. It happened to me in my early 30s in Northampton, Mass., a clearly college community, and they used the line "we card everybody." This is an era before people learned to mouth the words I Want to Speak to Your Manager. So you could be rejected at a higher level.

I'm pretty sure The Chapter House never tried to keep anyone out for being too old.

 
___________________________
JTW

Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: billhoward (155.133.4.---)
Date: February 28, 2024 02:46PM

Nor did the Royal Palm, 1941-2012, keep anyone out for being too old. Always seemed to be a number of alumni/grad students who never wanted to leave and who never believed they'd go bald on top and have a gray ponytail before reaching 40.

Why can't the National Register of Historic Places fight to keep alive one like-a-dive-bar bar in each college town? Has to be college related, so the Chanticleer downtown would never to qualify under another section of the law. The Fall Creek House would.
 
Re: Yet another collegetown bar bites the dust
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 28, 2024 09:01PM

They should have saved the ceiling from the Palms. My god that was disgusting.
 
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