Scandal at Penn State

Some unsettling news down in Nittany Lion Country. Legendary defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky allegedly has a long history of abusing young boys. AD Tim Curley seems to have covered-up the facts -- and then lied about it to a Grand Jury. Those two men along with another PSU administrator have been indicted.

This is so much worse than any of the "scandals" involving violations of the charade of amateurism in college sports. Joe Paterno, one of the supposed good guys in the sport, will now go down as the guy who enabled a pederast. End of story.

Obviously a horrible situation and the best thoughts I can muster go out to the affected boys and their families.

At the same time, I can't help a little idle speculation of what this could mean for the PSU athletics department in the long run - anything? Will their brand be so tarnished as to affect revenues? Recruiting? Might any coaches (e.g. Tambroni) decide to jump ship?

I can't recall anything remotely like this at any other school, so it's hard to imagine how this will play out without any precedent to compare it to.

If they clean house they can probably put the whole thing into a "regrettable tragedy which we have now left behind us" box. But they would have to go outside the school for an entirely new group, and everyone who could have possibly known and been complicit in covering it up is now toxic.

Spanier has got to go -- ultimate accountability rests with him. As for Paterno, he should have been gone awhile ago for other reasons, but now there's no way he should get a pass.

scoop85
Spanier has got to go -- ultimate accountability rests with him. As for Paterno, he should have been gone awhile ago for other reasons, but now there's no way he should get a pass.

I fully agree that Spanier must go, and I would hope that Penn Staters who really love the school would suspend donations until he is out.

Paterno will retire at the end of this season; statement via ESPN.

Not that I don't trust the judgment of the Lynah Faithful, but I am very glad we're not hosting Penn State this year.

Twitter whispers are that Spanier will "step down" and Paterno will be forced out, effective immediately. Board of Trustees press conference forthcoming.

ugarte
Twitter whispers are that Spanier will "step down" and Paterno will be forced out, effective immediately. Board of Trustees press conference forthcoming.

Done: [espn.go.com]

Trotsky
Not that I don't trust the judgment of the Lynah Faithful, but I am very glad we're not hosting Penn State this year.

You're probably right that it would end up with the university being a bit unhappy, but we wouldn't be perpetuating the traditional hostile environment if we didn't toe the line somewhat. That said, in all likelihood, the line would be crossed before the first puck even dropped.

I'll be very curious what the Board of Trustees investigation turns-up. For instance, why exactly did Sandusky "retire" at age 55 in 1999, after the first known incident allegedly occurred in 1998? Perhaps that was the first part of the cover-up.

scoop85
I'll be very curious what the Board of Trustees investigation turns-up. For instance, why exactly did Sandusky "retire" at age 55 in 1999, after the first known incident allegedly occurred in 1998? Perhaps that was the first part of the cover-up.

I've been saying that all along. It seems obvious to me and makes everything that followed even more disgusting.

Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

ugarte
Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

More-important news from Friday at the other end of Pennsylvania: Cardinal's Aide Is Found Guilty in Abuse Case. More potential impact, more sermons Sunday about the media and the anti-religion court system really being at fault here.

ugarte
Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

Unless I counted wrong, you have 3 extra "guilty"s.

jtn27

ugarte
Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

Unless I counted wrong, you have 3 extra "guilty"s.

It's true. I was just copying and pasting, so... 1, 2, 4, 8, 16+16+16. Close enough. And we'll get three more "guilty"s soon enough.

ugarte

jtn27

ugarte
Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

Unless I counted wrong, you have 3 extra "guilty"s.

It's true. I was just copying and pasting, so... 1, 2, 4, 8, 16+16+16. Close enough. And we'll get three more "guilty"s soon enough.

Are they really still pursuing those last 3 charges? That seems like a waste of time and money. The 45 counts he's already been convicted on are enough to ensure that he'll spend the rest of his life behind bars as it is.

(Also, I can't believe I took the time to count out all the of "guilty"s you wrote. Twice.)

jtn27

ugarte

jtn27

ugarte
Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty. Guilty.

Soon to be joined by Spanier, Curley and Schultz and eternally by the sainted Joe Paterno. What a disgrace.

Unless I counted wrong, you have 3 extra "guilty"s.

It's true. I was just copying and pasting, so... 1, 2, 4, 8, 16+16+16. Close enough. And we'll get three more "guilty"s soon enough.

Are they really still pursuing those last 3 charges? That seems like a waste of time and money. The 45 counts he's already been convicted on are enough to ensure that he'll spend the rest of his life behind bars as it is.

(Also, I can't believe I took the time to count out all the of "guilty"s you wrote. Twice.)

If you hadn't counted, it would have been someone else. 100% sure.

They can't try Sandusky on those three charges: double jeopardy. They can, if they choose, indict him for crimes against other victims, like his son, but they are unlikely to do so as the MINIMUM sentence for these 45 counts is far longer than he will live. That isn't what I meant - I was referring to Curley, Schultz and Spanier.

ugarte
... I was referring to Curley, Schultz and Spanier.

Who are going to go down HARD. And finally, FINALLY there is something that connects Joe Paterno - the man who knew everything that happened in Happy Valley - to more knowledge than he admitted to.

Was it really that hard to see how obvious this was from day one?

Let the feeding frenzy begin (see last paragraph).

Article on InsideLacrosse has some of Tambroni's reactions to the sanctions. Considering this scandal was way bigger than the football program and went to the top level of the athletic department and university, I'm not exactly sure I understand why the sanctions were limited to the football program.

[insidelacrosse.com]

Ronald '09
Article on InsideLacrosse has some of Tambroni's reactions to the sanctions. Considering this scandal was way bigger than the football program and went to the top level of the athletic department and university, I'm not exactly sure I understand why the sanctions were limited to the football program.

[insidelacrosse.com]

While the AD and University officials may be implicated in the scandal is there any evidence that coaches and staff from other sports had any involvement or knowledge of the Sandusky affair? If not then why punish those involved with these other sports?

Does anyone else think it's stupid to force Penn State to vacate victories from '98 to '10? What happened was horrible but didn't really have anything to do with the results on the field (as a scandal involving cheating, ineligible players or such would). Paterno is still the winningest D1 coach even if the NCAA wants to pretend that he's not on top of the list anymore. Of all the well deserved sanctions this one seems petty.

I dunno, it makes sense to me. His wins came, in part, from having established an environment in which winning came above all else -- or at least above child molestation, which I'd argue is a pretty damn high bar. I have to admit I don't know a whole lot about Penn State's football team, but I'd guess the assistant coach had something to do with the team's success. If he shouldn't have been there, the wins he helped get are tainted. The message it sends is that if wins mean so much to you that you're willing to cover for a guy like Sandusky, then you don't get the wins.

Anyway, these records are all about the legacy a person leaves behind. I think it's fair of the NCAA to say they don't feel he deserves that legacy, and this is about the only way they can take it away from him. The alternatives I can think of are to put an asterisk by his name on all NCAA material, with the footnote reading "also helped cover up a huge child molestation scandal," or to publish records for Winningest Coaches Who Weren't Implicated In Huge Child Molestation Scandals.

KeithK
Does anyone else think it's stupid to force Penn State to vacate victories from '98 to '10? What happened was horrible but didn't really have anything to do with the results on the field (as a scandal involving cheating, ineligible players or such would). Paterno is still the winningest D1 coach even if the NCAA wants to pretend that he's not on top of the list anymore. Of all the well deserved sanctions this one seems petty.

Can you say with certainty that they would have won those games if there had been arrests and news of child sexual abuse involving the Penn State football program in 1998? Recruiting, hiring, funding, all of that could have been and likely would have been affected.

I don't think it seems petty at all, and I agree with the earlier poster who suggested that the message is, "If wins are so precious to you that they're more important than the safety of children, then we will take away what's most precious to you."

KeithK

Ronald '09
Article on InsideLacrosse has some of Tambroni's reactions to the sanctions. Considering this scandal was way bigger than the football program and went to the top level of the athletic department and university, I'm not exactly sure I understand why the sanctions were limited to the football program.

[insidelacrosse.com]

While the AD and University officials may be implicated in the scandal is there any evidence that coaches and staff from other sports had any involvement or knowledge of the Sandusky affair? If not then why punish those involved with these other sports?

I don't know about involvement but certainly there is at least the appearance that there was some knowledge. There's no proof he knows, but the basketball coach left after a good year by Penn State standards for Navy. I'm not suggesting he was involved but to leave Penn State for Navy there has to be some reason. I'm thinking he knew to the extent that he would think "I won't want to be at this school anymore soon. It won't be a good place to work."

Ronald '09

KeithK

Ronald '09
Article on InsideLacrosse has some of Tambroni's reactions to the sanctions. Considering this scandal was way bigger than the football program and went to the top level of the athletic department and university, I'm not exactly sure I understand why the sanctions were limited to the football program.

[insidelacrosse.com]

While the AD and University officials may be implicated in the scandal is there any evidence that coaches and staff from other sports had any involvement or knowledge of the Sandusky affair? If not then why punish those involved with these other sports?

I don't know about involvement but certainly there is at least the appearance that there was some knowledge. There's no proof he knows, but the basketball coach left after a good year by Penn State standards for Navy. I'm not suggesting he was involved but to leave Penn State for Navy there has to be some reason. I'm thinking he knew to the extent that he would think "I won't want to be at this school anymore soon. It won't be a good place to work."

Tambroni left Cornell after making the national semifinals for a much less-established lacrosse program in Penn State, and he had perfectly reasonable non-scandal-related (as far as we know, at least) reasons for doing so. I don't think there's any cause to assume that the former Penn State basketball coach didn't have equally normal reasons for doing so.

Josh '99

Ronald '09

KeithK

Ronald '09
Article on InsideLacrosse has some of Tambroni's reactions to the sanctions. Considering this scandal was way bigger than the football program and went to the top level of the athletic department and university, I'm not exactly sure I understand why the sanctions were limited to the football program.

[insidelacrosse.com]

While the AD and University officials may be implicated in the scandal is there any evidence that coaches and staff from other sports had any involvement or knowledge of the Sandusky affair? If not then why punish those involved with these other sports?

I don't know about involvement but certainly there is at least the appearance that there was some knowledge. There's no proof he knows, but the basketball coach left after a good year by Penn State standards for Navy. I'm not suggesting he was involved but to leave Penn State for Navy there has to be some reason. I'm thinking he knew to the extent that he would think "I won't want to be at this school anymore soon. It won't be a good place to work."

Tambroni left Cornell after making the national semifinals for a much less-established lacrosse program in Penn State, and he had perfectly reasonable non-scandal-related (as far as we know, at least) reasons for doing so. I don't think there's any cause to assume that the former Penn State basketball coach didn't have equally normal reasons for doing so.

Tambroni didn't take a huge pay cut, though, did he?

ETA: Not that I think one way or the other on the PSU b-ball coach. It's all just speculation. Every situation is different.

KeithK
Does anyone else think it's stupid to force Penn State to vacate victories from '98 to '10? What happened was horrible but didn't really have anything to do with the results on the field (as a scandal involving cheating, ineligible players or such would). Paterno is still the winningest D1 coach even if the NCAA wants to pretend that he's not on top of the list anymore. Of all the well deserved sanctions this one seems petty.

It seemed silly at first. Now it makes sense. No one in a barroom or column or TV segment can say "No matter, Paterno was the winningest coach of all time" without having to add a reference to the sanctions. That amplifies and keeps alive the memory of the NCAA's power to crush.

Next time the NCAA cracks down on OSU, one of the penalties should to forbid them from saying The Ohio State University. It's more offensive than whatever North Dakota wore on the front of their jerseys.

Waiting for the final word from Ugarte.

billhoward

KeithK
Does anyone else think it's stupid to force Penn State to vacate victories from '98 to '10? What happened was horrible but didn't really have anything to do with the results on the field (as a scandal involving cheating, ineligible players or such would). Paterno is still the winningest D1 coach even if the NCAA wants to pretend that he's not on top of the list anymore. Of all the well deserved sanctions this one seems petty.

It seemed silly at first. Now it makes sense. No one in a barroom or column or TV segment can say "No matter, Paterno was the winningest coach of all time" without having to add a reference to the sanctions. That amplifies and keeps alive the memory of the NCAA's power to crush.

Next time the NCAA cracks down on OSU, one of the penalties should to forbid them from saying The Ohio State University. It's more offensive than whatever North Dakota wore on the front of their jerseys.

Waiting for the final word from Ugarte.

The OSU/Sioux joke should be stricken from the record. Stop trying so hard to be funny and sometimes just say a thing that you mean.

billhoward

KeithK
Does anyone else think it's stupid to force Penn State to vacate victories from '98 to '10? What happened was horrible but didn't really have anything to do with the results on the field (as a scandal involving cheating, ineligible players or such would). Paterno is still the winningest D1 coach even if the NCAA wants to pretend that he's not on top of the list anymore. Of all the well deserved sanctions this one seems petty.

It seemed silly at first. Now it makes sense. No one in a barroom or column or TV segment can say "No matter, Paterno was the winningest coach of all time" without having to add a reference to the sanctions. That amplifies and keeps alive the memory of the NCAA's power to crush.

Oh please. Anyone bringing up Paterno or Penn State will always face the scandal question. Those who still revere Paterno will maintain that he was the winningest coach in D1 because he was, the games happened, and they're not going to care about vacated wins.

I think it would be far better to leave Paterno at the top of the record books. Then every time the subject of career wins comes up we'd all be reminded of the culture of big time college football that resulted in this scandal. (Nt Sanduski's actions, of course. but the coverup.)

Stay classy, Ohio State:

[www.examiner.com]

Beeeej
Stay classy, Ohio State:

[www.examiner.com]

Do you know if this is actually on sale at the Ohio St. school store? Although I have no proof, I would suspect it's not. It's probably only available through some unassociated fan website/store. I would think (or at least hope) that someone working at a major university like Ohio St. would be smart enough to nix this idea before it hit the shelves.

"I'd Rather Shower at Penn State than Root for the Wolverines." It rates even worse on the Not Funny scale than Not Classy scale. It dull humor.

Before the football game with Ohio University all the Penn State non-football athletes walked the stadium floor en mass with the slogan "One Team" to signify the unity of the entire athletic department. I liked that.

billhoward
"I'd Rather Shower at Penn State than Root for the Wolverines." It rates even worse on the Not Funny scale than Not Classy scale. It dull humor.

All you need to know about an LSU education: