Emergency landing - ultimate E-ticket ride

Anybody else go through an emergency landing that turned out okay and in hindsight was a fine adventure experience? Our flight back from the consumer electronics show lost its right-side landing gear and after circling Newark airport a couple times, we made a smooth - really smooth - landing on the two good gearsets and then settled onto the engine nacelle on the right side that was standing in for the missing right landing gear. A bit of sparks from the friction, not a lot, almost no noise from the dragging engine (surprising), and a lot gentler experience than a couple crosswinds land-bounce-land-again landings I'd had earlier in the week. Plus the oblitgatory round of applause for the pilots, and then we all jumped onto the slides.

Then began the real horror of an emergency landing where the passengers survive -- only to suffer three-plus hours sitting around doing nothing, until we were let go. The pilots on United 634 were absolutely professional, the flight attendants almost as good (you could hear nervousness in one of the of the voices, I think it was the single mom flight attendant thinking about her kid), and a couple not all of the UA people on the ground ran around like chickens with their heads cut off, at least some of them. If this was a real disaster, it would not have gone smoothly for the relatives looking for help or information. I thought airlines were really well drilled; I think it means they're ready to deal with national media if they lose the plane in an all-hands-on-board incident but the local stuff could use work. Not as big a disaster as the Patriots later in the day.

Yikes, bill! Glad you're alright.

[www.nytimes.com]

As much as I've flown the past year, I must admit that this exact scenario did cross my mind once: "hey, you rarely hear of landing gear malfunctioning..."

You're right Bill. If I knew for certain that I'd walk away from it completely unharmed then I'd love to have that experience. The living through it probably wouldn't be so much fun.

This kind of thing reminds me how amazing it really is that we can travel across a continent in a few hours and think it's completely routine. There are a lot of things can go wrong and hundreds and thousands of people who are dedicated to making sure that they hardly ever do.

I am also reminded of a comment Robb (I think) once made. Something to the effect that from working on the electronics he was sometimes surprised that 7x7's weren't raining out of the skies...

I once floated 8 inches above my seat for a couple of seconds with my kid on my lap when I was unbuckled as the plane hit turbulence. Awesome but terrifying and as much adventure as I ever want to have at 30,000 feet.

ugarte
I once floated 8 inches above my seat for a couple of seconds with my kid on my lap when I was unbuckled as the plane hit turbulence. Awesome but terrifying and as much adventure as I ever want to have at 30,000 feet.

The adventure you have at 30,000 feet isn't the problem. It's the things that happen at zero feet that get you.

I've had some interesting landings in bad weather but thankfully nothing worse. Glad you're OK though and a pretty good story too.

KeithK
You're right Bill. If I knew for certain that I'd walk away from it completely unharmed then I'd love to have that experience. The living through it probably wouldn't be so much fun.

This kind of thing reminds me how amazing it really is that we can travel across a continent in a few hours and think it's completely routine. There are a lot of things can go wrong and hundreds and thousands of people who are dedicated to making sure that they hardly ever do.

I am also reminded of a comment Robb (I think) once made. Something to the effect that from working on the electronics he was sometimes surprised that 7x7's weren't raining out of the skies...

Just for the record - it was a FedEx test pilot who said that, and he was referring only to 727s. There aren't any 727s used for passenger service any more, but there are still a bunch floating around (pun intended) in cargo service. They're just flat out old and inefficient, so the airlines ditched them years ago. There are a lot fewer passenger complaints from containerized cargo pallets!

I once landed in Syracuse in a DC-9 that had lost an engine. I only know because I happened to be sitting where I could see into the engine (rear mounted engines). My first thought was, "interesting, the first stage fan has an odd number of blades. I bet they do that so that it's easier to balance. Waaiiit a minute - I shouldn't be able to count the blades!" I guess that's routine enough that they didn't even bother to make an announcement, but the pilot did miss his first approach (too high, thankfully!) and we went around. There were about 4 fire trucks lined up at the end of the runway waiting for us, but the landing felt completely normal, and they never said a word over the intercom. Nothing remotely close to what Bill just went through - glad you're okay!!!

One time as I was talking off from Hong Kong we had an engine blow out. Kaboom! You good see the flight attendants look at each other as if to say "That wasn't good." Then the chief purser walked down the aisle, took a look at the engine, and went back to her station. A couple minutes later, the pilot came on. "Uh, ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure you heard that loud report from the #1 engine." Well, duh! Anyway, it was a 747 which is designed to operate on only 3 of 4 engines, but we had to fly around in circles for 45 minutes and dump fuel before we could go back and land in Hong Kong.

We landed no problem, but they stuck us way out on the back 40. After about a half an hour - with all of the passengers lined up in the aisles ready to get off - a ground agent came on and said "Ladies and gentlemen, we've had a mechanical problem. We'll let you know when we've figured out what happened." Moron. At this point, a flight attendand turned to me and said "Do whatever you have to do to get off this plane. It'll be 3 hours before they get the engine apart, and longer than that before they fix the problem." She also gave me a bottle of champagne as a parting gift.

After another half hour during which the flight crew argued with the ground staff, they got some buses and took us back to the terminal...to a transfer desk where they had no idea that 5-600 angry people would be coming at them needing to rebook their flights. Once they got somewhat organized, we finally got rebooked, for a flight 12 hours later. Then went into the club, called our travel agent, and rebooked on another airline that was leaving in less than two hours. When we tried to check in for that flight they told us it was closing. They ran us across the airport, and literally ran our credit cards in the waiting lounge. I got home about 4 hours later than my original itinerary, sans bags. My bags made it the next day.

KeithK
The adventure you have at 30,000 feet isn't the problem.

It can be.

Jeff, you got that right: The pilots know what they're doing, the flight attendants know what they're doing (give or take their emotions getting in the way thinking about how a crash amd possibly dying affects their personal family life), and then there's the airlines people on the ground ... well, sometimes I think they've been watching F Troop or (from the German Stalag command point of view) Hogan's Heroes for corporate training. Or so it seems. One other guy seems to know what he's doing: I tracked down the email address of United's CEO, sent him a quick note with feedback and got a personal answer back from him in 30 minutes.

Now I'm ticked because the landing was so smooth, the FAA has downgraded this from "accident" to "incident." How can I make this sound like a Lusitania-level event to my grandkids in 30 years when it's classified a freaking "incident"? It sounds like a Sherlock Holmes story, not a plane crash.

I am the only person on the plane who didn't take photos. I had a camera, motor drive/battery grip, and f/2.8 zoom lens in overhead baggage ... but it weighs close to 5 densely packed pounds and I thought, just in case the pilot catches a wingtip and we spin or cartwheel, which ain't gonna happen, but you never know 100%, why not just sit down, shut up, and record the incident as memories?

There's a YouTube cellphone video of our accident/incident, a pilot on a crossing runway watching and capturing the landing and saying a little prayer as he approached and then, effectively, "Holy cow, he really greased it. That was amazing." I am torn between thinking our guys was an average pilot doing what he's supposed to do, land gently and keep the missing-gear side high for a couple seconds until the plane settles ... and a super-pilot who we 48 passengers and 3 flight attendants were lucky to have working at 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

billhoward
There's a YouTube cellphone video of our accident/incident, a pilot on a crossing runway watching and capturing the landing and saying a little prayer as he approached and then, effectively, "Holy cow, he really greased it. That was amazing."

How does a guy as tech-savvy as you not know how to cut and paste a link?

ugarte

billhoward
There's a YouTube cellphone video of our accident/incident, a pilot on a crossing runway watching and capturing the landing and saying a little prayer as he approached and then, effectively, "Holy cow, he really greased it. That was amazing."

How does a guy as tech-savvy as you not know how to cut and paste a link?

You mean not know or too lethargic? Sorry. Here:

Link:


YouTube clip from 737 cockpit perpendicular to runway

Link: Undercarriage (still photo) with jammed right main gear.

Link: Side view (undamaged side)

billhoward

ugarte

billhoward
There's a YouTube cellphone video of our accident/incident, a pilot on a crossing runway watching and capturing the landing and saying a little prayer as he approached and then, effectively, "Holy cow, he really greased it. That was amazing."

How does a guy as tech-savvy as you not know how to cut and paste a link?

You mean not know or too lethargic? Sorry. Here:

Link:


YouTube clip from 737 cockpit perpendicular to runway

Link: Undercarriage (still photo) with jammed right main gear.

Link: Side view (undamaged side)

Thanks. That's pretty amazing.

billhoward
Link:


YouTube clip from 737 cockpit perpendicular to runway

Gotta love pilots. "How many times in your life are you going to get to see that?"

I'm sure doctors and others are the same way - "Oooh, check out this tumor! Awesome!"

Robb

billhoward
Link:


YouTube clip from 737 cockpit perpendicular to runway

Gotta love pilots. "How many times in your life are you going to get to see that?"

I'm sure doctors and others are the same way - "Oooh, check out this tumor! Awesome!"

I'm a chemical engineer, and I'll be honest; It's fascinating watching video of other people's plants blowing up.

OTOH, it's terrifying when something goes wrong in yours.

billhoward
I am torn between thinking our guys was an average pilot doing what he's supposed to do, land gently and keep the missing-gear side high for a couple seconds until the plane settles ... and a super-pilot who we 48 passengers and 3 flight attendants were lucky to have working at 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

There's a reason why these guys make the money they do and why the defectives among them (Read: those pilots on NWA who overshot MSP a few months back) get handed their heads.

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
I am torn between thinking our guys was an average pilot doing what he's supposed to do, land gently and keep the missing-gear side high for a couple seconds until the plane settles ... and a super-pilot who we 48 passengers and 3 flight attendants were lucky to have working at 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

There's a reason why these guys make the money they do and why the defectives among them (Read: those pilots on NWA who overshot MSP a few months back) get handed their heads.

Aside from the very top of the seniority lists on legacy carriers, they really don't get paid that much considering their responsibilities and potential risks. It's also my understand that at some of the commuter airlines, the First Officers sometimes pay the airline in order to fly and log hours.

And compensation in the industry is only getting worse.

Jordan 04

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
I am torn between thinking our guys was an average pilot doing what he's supposed to do, land gently and keep the missing-gear side high for a couple seconds until the plane settles ... and a super-pilot who we 48 passengers and 3 flight attendants were lucky to have working at 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

There's a reason why these guys make the money they do and why the defectives among them (Read: those pilots on NWA who overshot MSP a few months back) get handed their heads.

Aside from the very top of the seniority lists on legacy carriers, they really don't get paid that much considering their responsibilities and potential risks. It's also my understand that at some of the commuter airlines, the First Officers sometimes pay the airline in order to fly and log hours.

And compensation in the industry is only getting worse.

The commuter airlines are another story. They are the "big airlines" way of avoiding FAA safety and on-time requirements, union contracts, etc.

But compensation in every industry is getting worse. The only reason that the pilots aren't truly screwed is that there aren't enough Chinese and Indian pilots, so they can't subcontract the jobs out like they do in every other field except burger flipping

And no, I'm not bitter.

I'm hoping our pilots were merely average, not hotshot heroes. Here's why: If only the best of the best can pull off a one-gear-out landing without bending the plane or passengers, the passengers are in deep trouble when there's a statistically average pilot in command. I think it's traditional to describe anybody who pulls this off as a super pilot, just as any cop who gets shot in the line of duty is branded a hero and role-model cop even if he was shaking down hookers and drug dealers on the side.

Chesley Sullenberger, the pilot who landed the US Air flight in the Hudson, apparently was at the top of his game. Our pilots, I believe, were either better than average or had luck on their side or both, because the landing was super smooth - didn't bounce on touchdown, no hard braking needed (or possible?), nothing amiss.

Wages for pilots are starting to reflect supply and demand. Pilots at the top, senior pilot of a 747 or 777 or A340 making $300K are year, are going to be a vanishing breed. Pilots making $25K a year for a commuter airline, I wish the guy had more to live for. And wish they had more money to live on. The Colgan air flight that crashed in Buffalo, the pilots were sleeping in the EWR crew lounge before the flight out in violation of rules that it's only for resting not sleeping. But when they flew in to EWR to prepare for the flight, Colgan / Continental didn't provide a hotel room to sleep the night before and on their wages maybe they couldn't afford to. So who's responsible for them being well-rested?

billhoward
Chesley Sullenberger, the pilot who landed the US Air flight in the Hudson, apparently was at the top of his game. Our pilots, I believe, were either better than average or had luck on their side or both, because the landing was super smooth - didn't bounce on touchdown, no hard braking needed (or possible?), nothing amiss.

Pulling off a super-smooth landing is not that hard, as long as the wind is steady and head on. For a gusty crosswind in the fog, you'd want Chuck Yeagar at the controls if you could get him. Somewhat ironically, it's actually easier in a larger plane because it doesn't react so quickly to every wind gust or twitch of the controls.

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
I am torn between thinking our guys was an average pilot doing what he's supposed to do, land gently and keep the missing-gear side high for a couple seconds until the plane settles ... and a super-pilot who we 48 passengers and 3 flight attendants were lucky to have working at 6 a.m. on a Sunday morning.

There's a reason why these guys make the money they do and why the defectives among them (Read: those pilots on NWA who overshot MSP a few months back) get handed their heads.

The customer service rep / counselor assigned to me suggested (hoped) this A319 wasn't going to fly again. I now read the plane may need engine repairs (maybe not even swapping out the engine?), some work on the wing to verify integrity, and - oh, while they're got it in the shop - replace the right landing gear that didn't cycle fully down. So the pilots, Dale Nordhausen and John Eskuri, saved United and their insurors something on the order of $70 million. Some companies, you toss an idea in the suggestion box and they pay you 10% of any savings.

FWIW, I've now learned after wondering for a long time: On a fatal crash, yes, you do get frequent flyer miles. And they refund the ticket price.

billhoward
FWIW, I've now learned after wondering for a long time: On a fatal crash, yes, you do get frequent flyer miles. And they refund the ticket price.

IIRC, I got OnePass miles for all of my flight segments on September 11, even the one that didn't happen.

billhoward
FWIW, I've now learned after wondering for a long time: On a fatal crash, yes, you do get frequent flyer miles. And they refund the ticket price.

But if you're dead, who gets to use the miles?

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
FWIW, I've now learned after wondering for a long time: On a fatal crash, yes, you do get frequent flyer miles. And they refund the ticket price.

But if you're dead, who gets to use the miles?

They transfer: Heir miles on Spirit Air.

billhoward
The customer service rep / counselor assigned to me suggested (hoped) this A319 wasn't going to fly again. I now read the plane may need engine repairs (maybe not even swapping out the engine?), some work on the wing to verify integrity, and - oh, while they're got it in the shop - replace the right landing gear that didn't cycle fully down. So the pilots, Dale Nordhausen and John Eskuri, saved United and their insurors something on the order of $70 million. Some companies, you toss an idea in the suggestion box and they pay you 10% of any savings.

The Airbus 320 from the US Airways Flight 1549 "Miracle on the Hudson" is for sale by the insurance company - as a historical artifact, not for a return to service:

[www.wired.com]