The Lynah and E-Lynah Gestapo

Let me begin by saying that the level of censorship by the Lynah gestapo is getting really ridiculous. Today I saw two individuals with signs harrassed by police, because they were "offensive." The signs read "Nickerson has syphilis" and the other made brief use of the word "sucks." Immediately, the Lynah police (not the ushers mind you) made a beeline for these individuals, and argued with them until they destroyed or gave up their signs. I also saw two individuals by the Clarkson bench with a sign reading "Nickerson eats babies." Two seconds after putting up this sign, I saw police approach these fans and have it out with them. I am completely aware of the lack of free speech within a private venue, according to US and NY contract law. I am not making a legal argument, but am commenting on the fact that the limits of what constitutes a "family environment" have been stretched beyond understandable recognition. You want to throw students out for screaming "asshole?" Fine. Even considering the fact that no child has legal tickets in the student sections, and I can't even hear things said in B (and I sit in A), so I really doubt that children in the townie seats can hear many of the obscenities anyway. Even so, this is understandable within the administration's mission of turning Lynah into a more family-friendly rink (which I disagree with wholeheartedly, but that's another matter). But to say that anything disparaging is out of line stretches the ability of the officials beyond practical reason. What do you have to do, just clap your hands when everyone else does, and never say anything disparaging?

The officials of Lynah are not the only gestapo who feel they must assert an authoritarian will to dominate all aspects of cheering, though the individuals of which I speak utilize psychological persuasion instead of force as their authority. For three years (eLynah as we know it got pretty big around my sophomore year, though it may have existed earlier), I have witnessed as alums shoot down students time and again, for things they just don't like. They sit here and blow things way out of proportion, possibly just because they are sad that they happen to not be able to make as many games now. Believe me- win or lose, tomorrow is my last home game as a student at Cornell- so I will understand the feeling that "we had so much stuff we used to say that no one does anymore." However, this does not give you the right to dictate some sort of policy as to what should be done and what should not. Personally, I don't do the "DIIIIIIIIIIIE" nor the telephone number cheer, but some individuals feel like doing it. Good for them. I'd rather have every person in that rink doing something an alum disagrees with than saying nothing at all. I think some of you should stop bitching and moaning that you don't like what other people say. If you don't like it, and you're at the game, make up something more creative youself. If you can't attend the game, try to set a new example during games that you can attend. Every group of students at a game has the opportunity to invent, develop and orchestrate whatever it feels like. Saying things like "this cheer really has to stop" is not only a waste of your time (do you think the people doing these cheers really care?) but is part of the mentality that I have witnessed on ELynah for three years: if you don't do something that everyone approves of, you're wrong. People aren't wrong because you don't agree with them.

How about the Lynah and the Elynah gestapo allow students to make up their own minds? As John Stuart Mill presents in his theory of free speech in On Liberty, free speech serves various functions. If it's right, we gain something. If it's wrong, we confirm the right things. If we don't know, it will help us decide down the road whether the matter is right or wrong. Similarly to cheering, if you don't like it (and it's within reason), let the crowd decide for themselves whether they want to continue or stop the practice.

-Mike Rosenberg '04

That really needed to be said. Amen.

Allow me to add several examples.

First, I do have several opinions about some cheers that everyone does. First of all, I wish that the "remote control goalie" cheer had more words than "bend over." Second of all, I think we can do better as a school than "TEAMMMMMMMMMMMMM suck!" every 5 minutes. So what do I do about it? I attempt to add in "sweeeeeeeeeep" or "tap" or "drink" as loud as I can at the appropriate times, and maybe it will catch back on. But I am not going to say to someone "you do this wrong" or, more in tune with what some individuals order on this board- "stop doing that." Change by action, not your stupid dictate.

If you're not at the game, you pretty much lose the ability to affect what people say. Because you don't like hearing it on your webcast is no reason to authoritatively dictate that whatever you don't like is stupid and wrong and must be stopped. There are about 800 examples of this in occurrence on this board anytime that anyone every brings up a cheer or sign they want to use. That's why I don't even post my own cheer suggestions anymore.

I do hope "Are you familiar with the term 'disappointing loss'?" makes a comeback too.

Mike, while I agree with your idea in theory, that the fans should be free to cheer as they want, I feel I should explain exactly why I want the phone number cheer to end.

(1) It is getting old--it was clever against Dan Yacey, but the novelty has worn off for me.
(2) It crosses a certain line that I don't think should be crossed when it comes to heckling the opponents. I can't really classify it as an invasion of privacy (since apparently the information is freely available online), but it works along the same line of thinking. Remember who it is who is saying this as well.
(3) I don't want this practice spreading to other schools' fanbases. I think it would be a shame if Dave McKee's number was chanted by another team's fans.
(4) More personally to me alone, the phone number cheer interferes with my own ability to heckle the goalie with my own ad-libbed lines.

All of that being said, painting the numbers on their chests was brilliant, as much as I hate to admit it. Those guys gave me the opportunity to heckle Traylen with the line, "You see that, Traylen? It's official--YOUR NUMBER'S UP!!!"

Do you really think a cop coming over and confiscating a sign is the same thing as an alum saying "I really wish you'd stop doing that cheer. It sounds stupid."? One is coercion, the other persuasion.

And it's not like these exchanges only happen between you hip youngsters and us old squares. Several years back, one member of the class of '94 was part of a group that had decided BU was no longer relevant to Cornell hockey and tried to replace "Screw BU" with "Let's Go Red". A classmate of his tried to convince him on a predecessor to this forum that he should stop that; I believe the phrase used was "you're making the Faithful sound like crap".

JTW i dont think you're as old as you think

Mike, shouldn't you be writing your thesis?

On that note, I'd like to say this to the parents giving me dirty looks tonight:
If you don't want your kids to hear it, don't sit in a student section.

Mike, well said.

Can I agree with Mike and with JTW? John has a good point that Mike's frustration with the Lynah Gestapo and the ELynah Gestapo have not a whole lot in common other than the word "Gestapo" (with which I have different issues altogether), and which should really be taken up in completely separate forums.

That said, Mike is right when he suggests that the holier-than-thou attitude on this board gets to be a little bit much sometimes. I'll freely admit that I've been a part of this on occasion (Macho Man and excessive "bend over" come easily to mind), but I think maybe at times I, along with others, take things too seriously, and could benefit from taking a figurative step back and looking at things in perspective. No, the cheers and the fans in Lynah aren't exactly the same as when I was a student, or when Rich was a student, or JTW, or Apple, or Greg, or Jeff H, Marty, Jim, Al, or their predecessors. Can we expect them to be? I don't see how we can. Sure, I love going back to Lynah and screaming my throat raw in the student section if I can get in, or wherever my ticket happens to be if I can't, but times change, and people change, and I don't see why I, or anyone else, should have a right to expect Lynah should be the same now as it was "back in my day," or to suggest that the way it was in any of those "back then"'s was "better" than the way it is now in any objective sense of the word.

People need to cool it and relax and realize that we're all cheering for the same team to win, and that how we go about is just details. We are all part of the Faithful, and the bickering that sometimes goes on among us is ridiculous. Advocating each of our own views about how best to cheer for the Red is pretty unimportant in comparison to reminding Nickerson about his raging case of syphillis, or asking Traylen why he spent a solid year backing up a tapping sieve like Walsh, or pointing out to Roll that Clarkson was a better team when the coach WAS beating his players, or, if you prefer, just adding one extra voice to "Let's Go Red." And if people (especially those in attendance, obviously) don't get their collective shit together, and support the Red, and get on the Golden Showers and into their heads, however they can and however they choose to do so, then we're just all that much more likely to be sitting around tomorrow night talking about how much we loved having Vesce around to win the big faceoffs and how great Marr looked when he needed to, instead of how much we're all looking forward to seeing Hornby and Wallace pound Rich Peverley or Tyler fuckin' Kolarik next Friday in Albany.

I'm sorry if this post offended any of you, but this is about as eloquent as I can be when I'm drunk.

-Josh

"Dieeeeee" isn't important either way, it's just a cheer.

The phone number violates the line between the game and real life. Neither J. S. Mill nor other Libertarians wrote that you have a right to unfettered freedom without regard to consequences on others' freedoms. I'm all for recounting Murphy's and Nickerson's tender relations with woodland creatures, because that stops at the Lynah exits. Contact info -- a phone number, an address, an email address -- doesn't just stop there.

It's tough for freedom and responsibility to coexist in a 3836-seat arena. It's like trying to segment a swimming pool into peeing and no-peeing sections.

Is there a point where fans can go too far? From applauding your team to booing the opponent to making rude remarks to making boorish hand signs to making obscene printed signs and adding gestures? Yelling out an opposing player's home phone number? His girlfriend's arrest record? His sexual preferences? (Hypothetically): If Nickerson is gay, when he makes the trip to the penalty box (and he got good at that Saturday), do you yell out, "See ya, faggot"? Do you dress in blackface and wear the visitor's jersey to mock a black opponent? (I think that one's illegal by Cornell's rules anywhere on Cornell's extended grounds.)

Do we know, or just hope, that a loud and boisterous crowd is worth a goal a game? And is that the fans or is that the travel away from home and playing on an unfamiliar surface? Was the de facto open-net goal against one Dartmouth goaltender who responded to Cornell taunts a possibility in every game, or a once-in-a-lifetime event? Or we supporting Cornell or just amusing ourselves?

What was clever once can become boring and repetitive. Harvard tied one chicken to Dave Elenbaas' cage circa 1973 and we're still reliving that with fish-tossing, like Southernors still annoyed by how the Civil War turned out.

What I might find amusing on my own, or as an undergrad, I'm not sure is so fully amusing in other circumstances, as when I brought my wife and boys back for a game last month. Fortunately, Lynah's acoustics suck [sorry, wrong word] and you can't tell what's being said half the time, and other times what you think you hear is worse than "Wen - dover" or "sucks." Maybe I'm getting old, but when the PA announcer at my boy's hockey game plays brief snatches of rap music [oxymoron?] with the F-word, my civil liberties self gets replaced by my annoyed self who thinks it's inappropriate in a public place with a wide range of people.

Down in Florida at the Everblades Classic, some of the old-timers from the other schools harrumphed about it being inappropriate to shout "Red!" during the national anthem. (Sorry. During the U.S. anthem.) Is that disrespectful? Or are the Fighting Irish unhappy the American flag isn't green and gold so they could get their cheer in? It certainly reinforced the Buckeye and Notre Dame opinion that we're a bunch of rich Eastern liberal jerks. But they also think it's disrespectful to play the Canadian anthem. Or unneeded.

Maybe Cornell should set even clearer rules about what's acceptable behavior at Lynah and make it clear to both the fans and the enforcers. It's possible the enforcers have too much leeway. Is "sucks" now the eighth dirty word?

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

It's tough for freedom and responsibility to coexist in a 3836-seat arena. It's like trying to segment a swimming pool into peeing and no-peeing sections.
[/Q]

Brilliant!

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

Several years back, one member of the class of '94 was part of a group that had decided BU was no longer relevant to Cornell hockey and tried to replace "Screw BU" with "Let's Go Red". A classmate of his tried to convince him on a predecessor to this forum that he should stop that; I believe the phrase used was "you're making the Faithful sound like crap".

[/Q]

"Let's Go Red, Clarkson too!"? I'm guessing that cheer didn't last very long.

I'm 50. Does that make me one of the old-timers? I was there from '71-'77 (slow, yes, but not that slow, I think I remember somehow earning 2 degrees between hockey games).

Can't say that I'm a big fan of signs about STDs, sexual preferences, or spouse/girlfriend beating, as they can be offensive and I don't see what they add. There are probably more creative and just as effective ways to get your message across and get inside the opposition's head, both good things to do.

But I have no issues with "sucks", shouting "RED!" during the anthem, or playing the Canadian anthem, which I think shows we respect and appreciate our players and fans from up north.

As an aside, in one of the most heated rivalries in all of sports: Red Sox-Yankees, you can't display anything with "sucks" on it in Yankee Stadium, but at Fenway, you see all kinds of "offensive" material on signs and shirts. Stadium security does nothing about it.

BTW, anyone know the real history behind the chicken-in-net thing? I know I've read posts about the fish being in retaliation for Harvard putting a chicken in Elenbaas' net at the old Watson Rink. But when I was a freshman, I remember my RA telling me that it was a tradition for us to tie a chicken in the Harvard net at Lynah between the first and second periods. Sure enough, at my first Harvard game, in the 1971-72 season, I seem to remember some guy goes out on the ice before the start of the second period and leaves behind a tethered chicken. No fish at that time, but certainly fowl.

[Q]Sure enough, at my first Harvard game, in the 1971-72 season, I seem to remember some guy goes out on the ice before the start of the second period and leaves behind a tethered chicken. No fish at that time, but certainly fowl.[/Q]

Maybe some recreational drugs were a factor in this vision/memory.


I don't remember anything like this at Lynah that year. (Maybe I was in a
halucinatory haze?)

Anything's possible. It was the 70s, remember. The reason it seems to strike such a vivid image is that I'd been prepped for it by my buddie who was a Pep Band member and had two years on me. So when the chicken appeared, it was like, OK, there it is, just like he said. By the time I was graduating, we'd gone from live to rubber chickens.

For many years prior to eLynah, there was the Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum, hosted by Kyle Rose. The forum transitioned from Kyle to Age, and then with the new interface, the name was changed to eLynah.

Throughout the years of following Cornell hockey, I've noticed that this debate of alums vs. students is occurs in cycles. It's nothing new, and it will continue to happen. I can almost guarantee that you too, some years down the road, will be on the other side of this debate.

If there is one thing that I want to complain about is how Lynah is practically empty during warm-ups. No, I haven't made it up to Lynah this year, but I have been watching the video feeds, and as late as 10 minutes before the drop of the puck, the place looks deserted. More than anything else, that is my criticism of the current students.

Greg need I remind you that simply chanting a phone number in itself is by no means a crime. If someone uses the information for illegal activities that is their own fault and they should be punished. Merely chanting a number that is PUBLIC INFORMATION is by no means a crime, or wrong. That's like me going up to someone and saying hey you know you could kill that guy by shooting him, and if he does being held responsible because I gave him the idea. Now doesn't your logic seem stupid? Say it with me.........yes........... and tell me the last time Cornell won back to back home games by a score of 7 to 1 while you're at it. I hope everyone at Lynah says whatever they want. Cursing, or otherwise. This is America, don't let others tell you what to do ever.

Wow i actually agree with Facetimer for once

[Q].m.o.o.n.l.i.g.h.t.d.a.n.c.i.n.g. Wrote:

Wow i actually agree with Facetimer for once [/Q]Including this?
[Q]This is America, don't let others tell you what to do ever. [/Q]With this kind of logic we would have a wonderful society.

Let's get past this and on to the team. After all we may only have one game left, and all off-season to discuss the rest.

[Q].m.o.o.n.l.i.g.h.t.d.a.n.c.i.n.g. Wrote:

Wow i actually agree with Facetimer for once [/Q]

Funny, I was just thinking that the fact that Facetimer wants this makes me think I'm actually on to something.

not that it matters, but i was told during the game, as i held up my "nickerson is jailbait" sign, that we were no longer permitted to display that individual's name on a sign, due to "certain instances which involved him outside the rink the other day." they made several other students take his name off their signs, regardless of what else was printed (i.e. "seek help, nickerson". that was a pretty interesting end to my four years of sign-making.

it's a shame we didn't beat the piss out of clarkson. i always wanted to make up a "GoodKnight" sign.

-mike

Maybe if people threw candy before warmups that would be enough to get people to show up for them.

Wow Age, bitter lately?

I've seen about 4 different threads with you taking a pot-shot followed by

Actually, yes, I am. Athletics continues to piss me off in ways I could never have guessed five years ago. They have a loyal, dedicated fan base that any other school would kill for and what do they do? They take every opportunity to shit all over it any chance they get. And the only way they'll think about their actions is if there are empty seats in Lynah. No thing of their's more sensitive than their wallet. And sadly, I almost wish it would happen so maybe something is done.

A puck landed a couple rows above me during warmups on Saturday. Someone picked it up only to have a cop make a beeline to him to take it away. You can't have player names on signs? I've heard "dick," "crap," "hell," "damn," and "shit" on primetime network TV, but we can't say have "sucks" on a sign?

And then you come here and get told how to cheer by people counties, states, and timezones away from you. That's not to say I like the way some good cheers have been butchered, but at least we're there making noise and doing what we can to improve cheers. The crowd this weekend was great, probably for the first time all year. Who the hell wants to from people who couldn't even bother to come about how they find cheers distasteful? I doubt the phone number thing will return next year, and if it does, I'm sure athletics will decide numbers=profanity and make them stop doing that too. If not, it's better than a quiet rink.

That's what happens when Greg Berge runs the Lynah "security."

RedAR: you are right on several counts, especially the lack of presence during warmups. As recently as 1996-97, the student side was at least 1/5 full by the end of warmups. I was one of the few who was always there when the doors opened around 6:30 for a 7:30 start, but there were at least 300 there within 20 minutes. I noticed a huge drop-off in 1997-98, and haven't gotten there in time for warmups on my return visits (mostly because I'm at the mercy of whoever has my ticket).

As for the alum/student debate: the CHDF was more of an alum thing than eLF is today, mostly because there were fewer students on that site than on this one, not because there are fewer alums on now. I think that's probably where most of the alum-centric discussions around cheering and "the good old days" start: people like myself, KeithK, Greg Berge, JTW, BRA, etc. who had our impressions solidly formed before 1998 and think our way is simply better. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but I think we can all agree that any cheer---even ones some of us consider stupid or inane or overdone---are better than a silent rink.

One of these days, I'll make it back up to Ithaca permanently and resume my off-color screaming ("Did your father eff your sister, and they had you?!" ), so at least AD will have some serious offenders to take the bright lights off students saying "suck," which as of 1997 was perfectly fine according to Schafer himself. Age, you and TRL better nip this one in the bud now, or the slippery slope will make everything but "Let's go Red!" off-limits eventually.

Kyle '98

Well, I was planning on writing to Schafer after the season. Didn't think it would be this soon though

Another avenue that might be worth considering, for students who aren't happy about it, is joining the Red Line. The more students they represent, the bigger voice they'll have.

[Q]RedAR Wrote:

If there is one thing that I want to complain about is how Lynah is practically empty during warm-ups. No, I haven't made it up to Lynah this year, but I have been watching the video feeds, and as late as 10 minutes before the drop of the puck, the place looks deserted. More than anything else, that is my criticism of the current students. [/Q]

Don't blame the students for that one, at least not on Friday nights. Granted, of all the fans there, the students would most likely be able to make it to the games on time, but the real blame here lies with whomever made the idiotic decision to change the start time from 7:30 to 7:00. The only thing I can come with is that it is part of the effort to make the rink more family friendly, but it isn't working. Getting to the game by 7 sucks, even on Saturday. Anyone with a job and a family can't possibly get home, get dinner, and get to the game on time. Move the games back to 7:30, or at least the Friday game, and you will see more fans there on time.

[Q]BigD Wrote:
Granted, of all the fans there, the students would most likely be able to make it to the games on time, but the real blame here lies with whomever made the idiotic decision to change the start time from 7:30 to 7:00. The only thing I can come with is that it is part of the effort to make the rink more family friendly, but it isn't working. Getting to the game by 7 sucks, even on Saturday. Anyone with a job and a family can't possibly get home, get dinner, and get to the game on time. Move the games back to 7:30, or at least the Friday game, and you will see more fans there on time.
[/Q]

This is an especially good idea in light of the new fast faceoff rules that mean a typical game is over in two hours and ten minutes.

It is somewhat ironic that Lynah Rink is becoming more restrictive at the same time that society as a whole is so much more liberal about what is acceptable. Kids are swearing at a younger age than ever before and yet so many people are worried about whether they will hear , gasp, a bad word at a hockey game.

If you think there is any correlation between the rink Nazis, poorer fan support, and ultimately a loss of our home ice advantage (playing only 0.500 hockey at Lynah is pretty sad any year), I encourage you to let Schafer know about it. I loved his passion as a player and have tremendous respect for what his coaching has done to bring the Cornell hockey program back to glory, but it is hypocritical of him to demand a profanity free environment in the stands when he himself has used it in public press conferences. His son is older now, maybe his position has changed.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Schafer is a hypocrite. Steve, you also forgot to mention this is the same man who wants all the fans to sleep out in a ridiculous line so he can have the most "die hard" fans in the rink. Provided of course, the fans behave in a respectable manner seems a little contradictary to me. I do encourage all of you to email Schafer and point out the hypocricy, if he is so concerened with his kid hearing bad language, then he should not expect the best fans in college hockey. HE CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. I'm expecting someone to post oh no, don't criticize Schafer for he is a god and should be idolized. I'm just saying he's a bit of a hypocrite, he might be a decent coach and good recruiter. But he's a GIANT hypocrite, if you don't believe me just ask Dupree.

[Q]Facetimer Wrote:Schafer is a hypocrite. Steve, you also forgot to mention this is the same man who wants all the fans to sleep out in a ridiculous line so he can have the most "die hard" fans in the rink. Provided of course, the fans behave in a respectable manner [/Q]I don't know if this counts as your expected response, Facetimer, but ...

I'm not sure I understand the hypocrisy. Why is it necessarily true that die hard fans curse like truckers? I can't go a few sentences in casual conversation without using "fuck" as an adjective, but I don't do the same thing at meetings or at public places where there are kids around. It is just courtesy and discretion.

I don't approve of the ultra-protective environment because it encourages aggressive and random behavior from the ushers, but given that the no-cursing rule is, in fact, the law of the rink, I think that even the most faithful of The Faithful are capable of following the rules.

[Q]Facetimer Wrote:

if he is so concerened with his kid hearing bad language, then he should not expect the best fans in college hockey. HE CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. [/Q]

I'd just like to point out that I've been able to pretty effectively heckle the other teams' goalies over the past few weeks without cursing at all. (Ask my friends if you don't believe me.) I'd like to consider myself to be among the best fans in college hockey. (Well, Cornell hockey, anyway.)

[Q]Will Wrote:
I'd like to consider myself to be among the best fans in college hockey. (Well, Cornell hockey, anyway.)
[/Q]

The mere fact that you need to question this is more profound than any other post in this thread.

Ok, now you have gotten me started. The ushers at Lynah are only doing their jobs. It's Andy Noel who doesn't want any of the swearing, etc...and he rules the way he sees fit. I personally feel that "f- em up" isn't understandable enough for kids, since you can tell them people are saying "puck puck puck" or something else, but it still is what it is. Swearing isn't allowed, so now we should change to "rough em up", despite how much we don't want to.
Signs are permissable in Lynah only if they portray "positive messages", which is why signs with sucks and signs like "Nickerson's Home" were confiscated, though I don't believe the carryers of such signs were ejected. Signs like "Nickerson is a bitch" are clearly grounds for removal from Lynah Rink, per the agreement on the back of your ticket stub...
And now the part that's been pissing me off all year....Our Fans Suck now....Some of the stuff they do is just ridiculous, brand new, and not within tradition at all. First, the asshole chant. It's "See ya asshole...you goon"...NOT YOU LOSE!!! Second, Gary Glitter "the fuck-em-up song" to those who don't know, does NOT involve hands in the air. Clap normal, that is the way it has always been. This new raising hands in the air after clapping garbage is annoying and gay. Third, "Frus-TRAAAA-ted", NOT "frustrated" Fourth, you say bend over once and wait for him to do it. You DO NOT chant it. That sounded so stupid the one game where the bend over chant went for a full minute, because the goalie wouldn't do it...it was awful...Fifth, "Rensalear Polytechnic Innnnnnnstitute Sucks", NOT "RPI sucks"...Sixth, "Haaaarvard Sucks", not "Harvard Sucks". You have to draw out the first syllable when you do it. I will teach everyone how in Albany, when I do all the teams at different times. Listen if you are there...Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again.
One final thought...It might be nice to cheer "Let's go red" more often than "Nickerson Sucks"....especially when Nickerson sucks is not helping anything, and the Red could use the encouragement. Once again, the idea is "support the athletes in a positive manner", not to try and piss off the opponent, since it usually does very little. I also think we need a cheering class for all the season ticket holders while they are waiting in line. Maybe Cowbell Guy can do it, since he knows the proper way to do the cheers. We'll see what we can put together...

Whats the hands in the air deal during Rock n' Roll Part II? Not blind, just an out of towner.

[Q]Trigger Wrote:

Ok, now you have gotten me started. The ushers at Lynah are only doing their jobs. It's Andy Noel who doesn't want any of the swearing, etc...and he rules the way he sees fit. I personally feel that "f- em up" isn't understandable enough for kids, since you can tell them people are saying "puck puck puck" or something else, but it still is what it is. Swearing isn't allowed, so now we should change to "rough em up", despite how much we don't want to.
Signs are permissable in Lynah only if they portray "positive messages", which is why signs with sucks and signs like "Nickerson's Home" were confiscated, though I don't believe the carryers of such signs were ejected. Signs like "Nickerson is a bitch" are clearly grounds for removal from Lynah Rink, per the agreement on the back of your ticket stub...
And now the part that's been pissing me off all year....Our Fans Suck now....Some of the stuff they do is just ridiculous, brand new, and not within tradition at all. First, the asshole chant. It's "See ya asshole...you goon"...NOT YOU LOSE!!! Second, Gary Glitter "the fuck-em-up song" to those who don't know, does NOT involve hands in the air. Clap normal, that is the way it has always been. This new raising hands in the air after clapping garbage is annoying and gay. Third, "Frus-TRAAAA-ted", NOT "frustrated" Fourth, you say bend over once and wait for him to do it. You DO NOT chant it. That sounded so stupid the one game where the bend over chant went for a full minute, because the goalie wouldn't do it...it was awful...Fifth, "Rensalear Polytechnic Innnnnnnstitute Sucks", NOT "RPI sucks"...Sixth, "Haaaarvard Sucks", not "Harvard Sucks". You have to draw out the first syllable when you do it. I will teach everyone how in Albany, when I do all the teams at different times. Listen if you are there...Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again.
One final thought...It might be nice to cheer "Let's go red" more often than "Nickerson Sucks"....especially when Nickerson sucks is not helping anything, and the Red could use the encouragement. Once again, the idea is "support the athletes in a positive manner", not to try and piss off the opponent, since it usually does very little. I also think we need a cheering class for all the season ticket holders while they are waiting in line. Maybe Cowbell Guy can do it, since he knows the proper way to do the cheers. We'll see what we can put together... [/Q]

I couldn't agree with you LESS, Trigger.

Being a good hockey fan isn't about knowing the chants properly, its about being clever, getting into the heads of the other team and using these to get an advantage. When somebody says "you lose" instead of "you goon," just look at them and laugh. The guys on the ice don't care about those chants, and whether or not we waive our hands to the Fuck em Up song. My friends and I joke about the formula for when to jiggle the keys at the end of the game (which can be found somewhere on Adrianno Macchio's wonderful site). Going to the games is not about being predictable. If you want to bring back the Lynah Advantage, come to warmups, and mock the players. Be creative. I made fun of one of the Clarkson guys who tried to flip the puck up off of the ice, and failed. I told him to keep practicing, and without looking at me or saying anything, he flipped a puck up into the stands right at me (the puck was then confiscated by the cops). Granted he showed me that I was wrong, but I knew I got to him. Then when the game starts you can continue to mock them all game. Some cheers pick up, others don't. Believe it or not, I started singing the "Stars at Night" at the begining of the second. The first time I did it, people made fun of me and had no idea what I was doing. The second time a few people joined in. Last I checked, I have all of A and B doing it, and the band playing a subpar rendition of a great song.

Trigger, I see from your IP address thingee that you are writing from a Cornell computer which means you are probably a freshman (or can't find anyone to live with you off campus). I call on you to take the place of our outgoing senior fans like Mike Rosenberg who think of creative chants. Otherwise Lynah will continue to lose its edge.

And with the Cornell administration continuing to censor our materials, this may be all that we have left.

Wow...at first I thought the 'gestapo' label was a little harsh, but after reading this...

[Q]Trigger Wrote:

And now the part that's been pissing me off all year....Our Fans Suck now....Some of the stuff they do is just ridiculous, brand new, and not within tradition at all. First, the asshole chant. It's "See ya asshole...you goon"...NOT YOU LOSE!!![/q]I actually agree with you, but on the other hand, if the cheer changes, it changes. And the idea of telling an opponent that they lose isn't a bad thing in my mind.

[q]Second, Gary Glitter "the fuck-em-up song" to those who don't know, does NOT involve hands in the air. Clap normal, that is the way it has always been. This new raising hands in the air after clapping garbage is annoying and gay.[/q]At first, I thought it looked stupid too. But then I realized it actually helped those of us on the far side of the rink to actually keep in sync with the clapping during the song. For as bad as the hands-in-the-air looks, it's not as bad as an out-of-sync cheer.

[q]Third, "Frus-TRAAAA-ted", NOT "frustrated"[/q]I don't understand, I don't hear it coming out differently.

[q]Fourth, you say bend over once and wait for him to do it. You DO NOT chant it. That sounded so stupid the one game where the bend over chant went for a full minute, because the goalie wouldn't do it...it was awful...[/q]I believe the goalie was Josh Gartner of Yale. Gartner wasn't the type to bend over a lot except when the puck was moving towards him. Then again, it did seem like he was intentionally not bending over just to screw with the fans. Of course, that just means he's listening, which is really the point of it all.

[q]Fifth, "Rensalear Polytechnic Innnnnnnstitute Sucks", NOT "RPI sucks"[/q]Agreed. (I don't know about drawing out the 'n' in Institute, though.) I just hope we continue to call it the Polytechnic Institute if the proposed named change to Rensselaer University goes through.

[q]Sixth, "Haaaarvard Sucks", not "Harvard Sucks". You have to draw out the first syllable when you do it. I will teach everyone how in Albany, when I do all the teams at different times. Listen if you are there[/q]I get the feeling that the shortened "Harvard" is being done mainly by those whose voices just can't carry it out that long. At least they're trying.

[q]Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again.[/q]Wow, somebody's being rather elitist. Cheers change over time. I'm quite sure they were different before you're time, and they'll continue to change. That's the nature of these things.

[q]One final thought...It might be nice to cheer "Let's go red" more often than "Nickerson Sucks"....especially when Nickerson sucks is not helping anything, and the Red could use the encouragement. Once again, the idea is "support the athletes in a positive manner", not to try and piss off the opponent, since it usually does very little.[/q]I don't know if I want the LGR cheers to be done more often, so much as I want them to last longer than they do. Recently, they just don't seem to carry out as long as they used to.

[q]I also think we need a cheering class for all the season ticket holders while they are waiting in line. Maybe Cowbell Guy can do it, since he knows the proper way to do the cheers. We'll see what we can put together... [/Q]As I recall Age once saying, people don't like being told what to do. I'm all for educating the fans, but I don't want to totally direct them in how they should cheer, so long as they show up and make some noise. Well, cheering noise, anyway--I don't want them having unrelated conversations and chatting on their cell phones.

[Q]BigD Wrote:


Getting to the game by 7 sucks, even on Saturday. Anyone with a job and a family can't possibly get home, get dinner, and get to the game on time. Move the games back to 7:30, or at least the Friday game, and you will see more fans there on time. [/Q]I hate to disagree , but I seem to make it coming from Syracuse. Granted that there is a pizza ready when I get home, or we grab something on the road, but we make it. Now would it be easier if it was 7:30, sure, but then we get home later, so?

I don't think it's the time but the determination.

Again, I'm with Facetimer on this one. Trigger, why do you think every thing has to be a certain way? Sure everything is "tradition" but jesus, at least we're supporting the damn team!! Do you honestly have to nitpick how people shout "frustrated" or how people pronounce "Harvard"? Does it matter THAT much to you? If it does, you need to start paying more attention to the game... because if your ears catch every little syllable, then you can’t possibly be directing your attention to the game in a way that's very engaged. And if you don't like the new Gary Glitter clapping style, DON'T DO IT! We all have options. What's next? Do you think all fans should be wearing red shirts on top, and jeans on bottom? What happens when someone, who's been going to the games much LONGER than you have, shows up in a forest green sweater? Are you gonna tell them off? Do you dare?

And by the way, I thought it was pretty damn funny when that goalie wouldn't bend over for a full minute. But that's MY opinion. Does everyone agree? No. And that's why lots of people don't agree with YOU.

[Q]Trigger Wrote:

If someone starts something new, just don't follow them. [/Q]

The whole purpose of the creative aspect of Lynah is that we do try new things, some more successful than others. As great as the "staple" cheers are, I think it's a massive mistake to rely WHOLLY on the "pre-approved" cheers that people started 30 years ago. New additions, both individual and group, never hurt anyone.

[Q]Facetimer Wrote:

I call on you to take the place of our outgoing senior fans like Mike Rosenberg who think of creative chants. Otherwise Lynah will continue to lose its edge. [/Q]


Thank you. I hope to make one home game or so. I also plan to be in attendance at the Harvard away game, where I will be a graduate student. It's going to be odd cheering for Harvard against other ECAC teams (never against Cornell), so I think I am just going to continue cheering negatively against the opposition.

-Mike

Well this alum says screw tradition. God help me for saying it, but Facetimer makes some valid points.

IMO, whatever works to keep the fans involved is what we should be doing. Most of the cheers that are being done now are completely different than when I was in school. Hell, they're almost completly different than 10 years ago. If "you goon" evolves into "you lose", so what! The idea is the noise and the harassment. And coming up with formulae as to when it's appropriate to jingle the keys? Well that's just plain ridiculous.

regarding profanity, I admit that when I first heard "See ya, asshole" or "Fuck 'em up" I loved it and joined right in (but I'm not a parent). However, if the administration has determined that they want to stamp out profanity, there's not much we can do about it. Move on. Find something within the rules.

On the other hand, if they have cops coming down to take pucks away when they leave the rink, that's just too much. Next thing you know they'll keep people from throwing hats on the ice after a hat trick. There's a reasonable compromise here. Work with The Red Line and Schafer to make it happen.

JH

[Q]Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again[/Q]

WTF? At what point did we stop changing things? 1972? 1985? 1997? I didn't get the letter in the mail saying that as of this day cheers have stopped evolving. Cheers are for the fans to do and have fun with. If you stop evolving cheers, you take the life out of them. Fans feel like they're just robots, repeating what they've been told to repeat at particular points in the game. I really hope you were being sarcastic in your original post.

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

On the other hand, if they have cops coming down to take pucks away when they leave the rink, that's just too much. Next thing you know they'll keep people from throwing hats on the ice after a hat trick. There's a reasonable compromise here. Work with The Red Line and Schafer to make it happen.

JH [/Q]

Do they really take pucks away now? During games or just warmups? Anyway, that's absurd either way. One of the joys of being at a game, rare as it might be, is going home with a souvenir puck. In all my years of going to games while a student, I only came away with one. But it was a memorable one: 8-4 over Harvard, 2/11/76 (the game wasn't as close as the score). I still have that puck, labeled with a piece of old athletic tape. Just let those bastards come and try to take that one away. They'll have to take away my guns too.

[Q]Do they really take pucks away now?[/Q]

I've picked up a bunch of pucks during warmups and never had them taken away. I think it may have just been for the Clarkson game.

I can't believe that they would start taking pucks away...one of my favorite pieces of memorabilia from last year's undefeated home season is a puck that hit me in the stomach. The bruise was definitely worth it.

The cops were told to take away pucks after that puck was tossed back on the ice on Friday and bounced off a player's glove (surely resulting in a compound fracture and the end of his playing carreer ). So far, I've only seen them do it during warmups, but it's just another case of overreaction in Lynah. I have to think if conditions weren't getting so ridiculous, we wouldn't see things like bottles and other crap being thrown on the ice. People are just finding other ways to vent (not that I condone it).

Oh, and Facetimer, if you end up with a nasty cold, consider it a present from me to you.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:

Oh, and Facetimer, if you end up with a nasty cold, consider it a present from me to you.
[/Q]

Wink wink.

[Q]8-4 over Harvard, 2/11/76 (the game wasn't as close as the score). [/Q]

That doesn't sound particularly close.

I sorta see it like this: Bringing your kids to lynah means that you accept that they might hear people screaming "hey Dannis, your mom called, she said : you suck" & that they might see a fist fight on the ice. Its just like showing them an R rated movie.
Now society is currently leaning towards the concept that 'naughty' and 'obscene' words destroy and damage children's minds. What a load of shit.
Yes, I understand the back of my ticket may say that I cannot 'curse like a trucker', but that doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I intend to oblige their request. At the rate the rules are changing, soon they only thing we'll be able to chant is "good luck!" and "lets go red." To me, that is a loss of everything Lynah stands for.

[Q]Ben Rocky 04 Wrote:

Yes, I understand the back of my ticket may say that I cannot 'curse like a trucker' [/Q]


I find it appauling the way we stereotype truckers. Not everyone gets the opportunity to attend an Ivy League institution. Perhaps some of us should try to become slightly more tolerant of others.

[Q]CowbellGuy Wrote:
Oh, and Facetimer, if you end up with a nasty cold, consider it a present from me to you.
[/Q]CG and FT sittin' in a tree...

Well said. Let's not act like a bunch of classist c'gate fans.

Yeah, I've also walked away with a few this season from warmups.

[Q]ugarte Wrote:

CowbellGuy Wrote:
Oh, and Facetimer, if you end up with a nasty cold, consider it a present from me to you.
CG and FT sittin' in a tree...

[/Q]

...blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah

[Q]Erica Wrote:

8-4 over Harvard, 2/11/76 (the game wasn't as close as the score).

That doesn't sound particularly close. [/Q]

That's the beauty of it. As bad as that seems, it was even more one-sided than 8-4 would indicate. I think Harvard got a meaningless goal or two somewhere late in the game. It just pained me to have to put a "4" on the puck for them. "2" would have been much nicer.

I agree. Age, you may run the board, but this time, I have to say...

Take it offline!

[Q]canucksfan Wrote:

I can't believe that they would start taking pucks away...one of my favorite pieces of memorabilia from last year's undefeated home season is a puck that hit me in the stomach. The bruise was definitely worth it. [/Q]

Tell them it's being retained as evidence, under instructions from your attorney.

Okay, first of all, I actually agree with some of the points expressed here. I don't think chants should be frozen in time as "perfect" and never evolve. And taking away a ten year-old girls's sign because it uses a specific player's name is pretty shitty. But some of what you said - and what's been said in response - strikes me as a bit bizarre. So let me see if I can sum it up:

1) Clamping down on your profanity in an arena to which you've been admitted because you freely bought a ticket that serves as a legal contract, with your obligation not to use profanity written clearly on the back, is an infringement of your free speech rights, and

2) Alumni with an opinion on what you say in the rink have no right to express that opinion.

Beeeej

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

1) Clamping down on your profanity in an arena to which you've been admitted because you freely bought a ticket that serves as a legal contract, with your obligation not to use profanity written clearly on the back, is an infringement of your free speech rights[/Q]

This is not what I believe, and I don't think most of us seriously think that. My opinion is, "Extreme fanaticism---of which strong language is de facto a part---is a large part of the reason why Lynah Rink is so feared, and therefore should be tolerated."

Look, it's a hockey game, not a Beethoven recital: if you don't want your kids to hear that kind of language, take them elsewhere. IMO, this goes for Mike Schafer, as well. The devestating atmosphere of Lynah should not be sacrificed because some people want to bring their kids to the rink and not have them hear language they don't like. I'm sure lots of you disagree with me on this point, but I feel strongly that a college game should be primarily for the college student fans, not the locals and their kids, and the atmosphere should reflect that.

We're (yeah, I'm including my ancient non-college ass) old enough to handle a little profanity, and frankly, the fact that the college sports atmosphere inspires such frighteningly-insipid behavior is a prime reason why I prefer to follow Cornell hockey over professional teams that play at a much higher level. The fans and their antics are a major factor in the enjoyment of those who actually attend the games, and those who don't attend the games at Lynah (or Lynah East ) anymore may have forgotten exactly what makes Cornell hockey so special. I haven't. Every time I attend a game or watch one on i2sports, it reminds me of why I miss Cornell so much, and of how I managed not to go insane from the 170-credit workload I put myself through: because I got to channel the anxiety and aggression building up throughout the week into the opposing goalie every Friday and Saturday night. Let's not take that away in the name of "protecting the children." Good god...

Cheers,
Kyle

[Q]krose Wrote:

I feel strongly that a college game should be primarily for the college student fans, not the locals and their kids, and the atmosphere should reflect that.
[/Q]

Get a grip on your ego, man. College games aren't for any fans...they are for the players. And last I checked, students only fill about half of Lynah. I am very proud of how intimidating our rink is and I recognize the contributions of the students to that factor. But to suggest that everyone else should go find other entertainment so that the students can use a full range of curses during the game is pretty selfish. There is a compromise to be found here, and getting rid of the non-students, many of whom are ardent members of the Faithful, is not compromise. It is stupid.

[Q]canucksfan Wrote:
Get a grip on your ego, man. College games aren't for any fans...they are for the players.
[/q]
False. The fans are an integral part of the success of the Cornell hockey program: Schafer nets a lot of his recruits as a direct result of them seeing how fanatical the following is, for example. In return for the assistance the Faithful provide to the program, there should be significant consideration given to the desires of the fans to continue exactly what has been successful in helping to drive the program forward. As the old saying goes, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."
[q]And last I checked, students only fill about half of Lynah. I am very proud of how intimidating our rink is and I recognize the contributions of the students to that factor. But to suggest that everyone else should go find other entertainment so that the students can use a full range of curses during the game is pretty selfish.[/q]
But to suggest that the students---who comprise the vast majority of the fans who matter---should sacrifice their level of support just so the minority of townies who are really bothered by profanity can have 2-1/2 hours of squeaky-clean entertainment is pretty selfish. IMO, killing off such an important part of the program simply to satisfy the desires of a small minority is a lot more selfish.

If you don't like the language, get earplugs or go home. If you don't want your kids to hear the language, don't bring them. It's real simple. Don't ask everyone else to change their behavior just to make you feel better.
[q]There is a compromise to be found here, and getting rid of the non-students, many of whom are ardent members of the Faithful, is not compromise. It is stupid. [/Q]
Spare me the sanctimony. The townie side of the rink is not what gives Lynah its reputation, and you and everyone else here knows it.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

I for one have no issue with the language...I have issue with people who want those that don't like the profanity to just go home. And again, while the fans might help Schafer net recruits, the games are not for the fans.

I am on your side on many of these issues...signs about players shouldn't be taken away, and the ushers have gotten a bit fanatical. But do you honestly think that players decide to come to Cornell based on the fact that the Faithful say "fuck 'em up" rather than "rough 'em up?"

[Q]canucksfan Wrote:

I for one have no issue with the language...I have issue with people who want those that don't like the profanity to just go home.[/q]
Feel free to have all the issues you like: that doesn't change the facts or invalidate my analysis of them.
[q]And again, while the fans might help Schafer net recruits, the games are not for the fans. [/Q]
While you are technically correct in the sense that the games would still be played even in the absence of fans, the games would ultimately not be worth watching without the crowd support: recruiting, opponents' anxiety, and team spirit would all be adversely affected, leading to a much weaker program. Thus, my contention is that the program owes the fans, and what they owe the fans is an environment friendly to the sorts of antics that help the program be successful. Thus, the games are in part for the fans.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

[Q]canucksfan Wrote:

I am on your side on many of these issues...signs about players shouldn't be taken away, and the ushers have gotten a bit fanatical. But do you honestly think that players decide to come to Cornell based on the fact that the Faithful say "fuck 'em up" rather than "rough 'em up?" [/Q]
This is a straw man argument. It's not any particular chant that makes Lynah such a devestating place for opponents to play: it's the entire experience.

I contend that the real problem is that throwing people out for screaming the occasional profanity has a dampening effect on the crowd, resulting in fewer people wanting to act impulsively, something that has in recent years led to a much quieter rink and less rowdy crowd. The attitude that Cornell fans should be fucking nuts in support of their team has been lost to a confusing debate on what is acceptable behavior in a college hockey rink. This is terribly unfortunate.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

[Q]krose Wrote:

Extreme fanaticism---of which strong language is de facto a part---is a large part of the reason why Lynah Rink is so feared, and therefore should be tolerated.
[/Q]

I disagree that foul language is de facto part of Cornell's home field advantage. Opponents fear Lynah because we are (not in any order) raucous, knowledgable, creative, loud, coordinated/organized, and always sold out. And while I agree that things are getting out of hand in terms of political correctness, I disagree that fans should be allowed to attack our opponents with a barage of f-bombs. It's boring and uninspired. Worse, it alienates the students from the community.

Paying to attend a school, camping out overnight, etc., does not relinquish you (generic, I know you graduated) from the responsibility of being a productive member of society. In another thread someone commented that we wouldn't have a texan named McKee on our team if not for the Dallas Stars. What about the 11-year-old Ithaca kid with a god-given slapshot who can't see the Red play because the fans are so selfish they can't fucking stop swearing for one goddamn fucking minute?

Sam Paolini earned the Humanitarian Award last year, among other reasons, for working as a volunteer coach for the Ithaca Youth Hockey Association. Shouldn't that be the example we follow, rather than preserving the "tradition" of saying "fuck 'em up, fuck 'em up"? Cornell hockey not just for the student fans. It's for the fans, the student athletes (ours and the opponents), the university, Section O, the community, the alumni, and anyone else out there who wants to walk away from a Cornell victory on the ice with a good feeling.

[Q]KenP Wrote:
I disagree that foul language is de facto part of Cornell's home field advantage. Opponents fear Lynah because we are (not in any order) raucous, knowledgable, creative, loud, coordinated/organized, and always sold out.[/q]
Except for the last one, not to the same degree anymore, for the reason I outlined in my last post.
[q]And while I agree that things are getting out of hand in terms of political correctness, I disagree that fans should be allowed to attack our opponents with a barage of f-bombs. It's boring and uninspired. Worse, it alienates the students from the community.[/q]
Which community are you talking about? The only one that matters is the community of Cornell fans, of which the students are the most effective, and therefore most important, part.

If you are talking about the townie community, then I couldn't really care less, and I suspect not too many current students do, either. If the student fans truly care about improving their image among the townies, then they can volunteer to clean up the language while retaining the impulsiveness that is so desirable. I doubt this will happen. My experience from my time at Lynah was that the students tolerated the townies, but were always irritated at having to prompt them to do anything other than clap after a goal.
[q]Paying to attend a school, camping out overnight, etc., does not relinquish you (generic, I know you graduated) from the responsibility of being a productive member of society.[/q]
Screaming, "See ya, asshole!" does not make one an unproductive member of society.
[q]In another thread someone commented that we wouldn't have a texan named McKee on our team if not for the Dallas Stars. What about the 11-year-old Ithaca kid with a god-given slapshot who can't see the Red play because the fans are so selfish they can't fucking stop swearing for one goddamn fucking minute?[/q]
(a) If parents are so goddamned uptight that they think their kids are going to be permanently harmed by hearing a little profanity, then perhaps you should consider that they are the ones holding back their kids' potential.

(b) I'd be perfectly happy not to swear for one minute, and in fact spent 99%+ of my time in the rink not swearing. It's the fascist prohibition on swearing for all 150 minutes that's the problem.
[q]Sam Paolini earned the Humanitarian Award last year, among other reasons, for working as a volunteer coach for the Ithaca Youth Hockey Association. Shouldn't that be the example we follow, rather than preserving the "tradition" of saying "fuck 'em up, fuck 'em up"?[/q]
And I'd be willing to bet Paolini, like all the other Cornell hockey players I've known, swore like a trucker when he wasn't working directly with the kids. A prohibition on swearing while coaching little kids is perfectly reasonable; a prohbition on swearing in a college hockey rink is not.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

[Q]krose wrote: But to suggest that the students---who comprise the vast majority of the fans who matter[/Q]Some of us might disagree with you on this issue. Some of us have been supporting CU hockey for longer than you have been alive. Many of us even screem at times, although much of our support comes in different ways.

Do you even know that hockey boosters used to room players during the year, before that was made illegal. Talk about support! There are boosters who go to every game home and away, and many of us who get to as many as we can.

I won't bother to mention the degre of finacial support that is given, and unlike those other sports universities, all that is asked in return is a good effort and alot of fun.

There are many ways to "matter", so don't put everyone else, who happens to be different than you, down.

And above all, please remember it was Coach Schafer who wanted the language cleaned up.I'm sure he was not doing it to make his hockey program less intimidating.

[Q]Jim Hyla Wrote:
There are many ways to "matter", so don't put everyone else, who happens to be different than you, down.[/q]
Jim, by "matter" you know I'm talking specifically about mattering during a game. The fact that you give financially or boosters used to board hockey players or some other random non-student likes to wear his Cornell jersey on game days in Boston ( ) means absolutely squat to the intimidation factor in the rink. During a game, the students---not the townies---are the ones coming up with the clever cheers, jeers, goalie insults, signs, chest paint, etc., and IMO that means they should be granted wide latitude in their behavior so as not to diminish the atmosphere in which the really clever stuff is devised.
[q]And above all, please remember it was Coach Schafer who wanted the language cleaned up.[/q]
Thanks, Poirot.
[q]I'm sure he was not doing it to make his hockey program less intimidating.[/Q]
Nevertheless, that has been a real side effect. Perhaps he should revisit his decision.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

I'm on your side Kyle, and I would be a complete hypocrite if I weren't. I was proud to be part of a crowd that gives Lynah one of the toughest, if not the toughest home ice advantages in the nation for opposing teams to overcome, and I would hate to see it become a thing of the past.

Swearing at games is not in particular what makes Lynah Rink intimidating. However, having to worry about getting tossed out of the rink because you said bullshit, asshole, or sucks (???) even just once is likely to make a fan less rowdy. It also sounds like some people have stopped attending games because of the Rink Nazis. I know that some may say that we don't need these fans because they don't love hockey enough, but if Lynah is getting quieter and the games aren't selling out, we certainly do need them.

College sports are for the players, the student fans, the alumni, and then fans not associated with the University in that order. Of the people who come to see the games, the students are by far the most important. In another thread a fellow alum stated something to the effect that the raucous environment at Lynah that he thought was great as a student had lost its appeal now that he has a wife and child he would like to bring to the games. He effectively said: "I was dandy to raise hell when I was young, but now that I'm past that, all of you young ruffians better behave so I can have the best possible experience for my family when I return to visit". How much more sefish can one get?

Parents who think they are going to shelter their kids from hearing profanity in 2004 are delusional. I routinely hear people swearing for no good reason while walking down the sidewalk outside my house. If you think it's that bad, explain to your child that he or she will hear some words you don't approve of. Or wait until your children are older to take them to Lynah.

I've heard that back in the day, Mike Teeter used to house a good part of the team. Would love to hear more about that.

I think having a recruit come to Lynah and be told - this is Mike Teeter - he's been with the program for 40 years and here's Coach Schafer - he played for four years and has been the coach for 10 and is very well respected and here's Arthur Mintz, he's been announcing games since the 80's and will be still when you bring your grandchildren back and here's all of these fans who have followed the team since the 1960's and here's the history of some of the numbers you might wear and yes, this rink has been around since 1957 and yes of course this is the same place where Dryden played, where 'the perfect season' was played, where hockey fans know their stuff and will scrutinize you, support you and make you become a better hockey player carries more weight with a recruit when he realizes the skates he's filling, the people who will immediately surround him and the tradition he may get to carry on than the atmosphere at Lynah which will always be loud even if the language is cleaned up.

Oh and yes recruit, there's this cowbell guy too and he.....

And I forgot to mention that the vast amount of a player's time is spent at Lynah in front of little or no fans at practice and a player realizes that.

Also, with regards to cursing and I take no position here, imagine you were the only fan at Lynah during a game - would you scream fuck 'em up, fuck 'em up and have everybody know it was you or would you just make a lot of noise in support and to taunt the opposing team. This is the mob mentality theory and we know there are some at Lynah who just say things because others say it and then there are those who are creative.

I guess I was trying to make a subtle point that was missed, though I appreciate the discussion that followed it... my point was more along the lines that it's difficult for me to take anybody seriously when their argument basically amounts to, "I have the right to say anything I want, wherever I want, but you don't have the right to tell me I shouldn't say it."

Beeeej

Beeeej, who's talking about rights here? Lynah Rink is a private venue, and as such the managers can tell us not to swear, or to wear only red and white, or not to arrive after 7:05 pm, etc. My point is simply that they shouldn't be fascists, not that they are somehow legally restricted from being fascists.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

[Q]krose Wrote:

Beeeej, who's talking about rights here? Lynah Rink is a private venue, and as such the managers can tell us not to swear, or to wear only red and white, or not to arrive after 7:05 pm, etc. My point is simply that they shouldn't be fascists, not that they are somehow legally restricted from being fascists.[/Q]I don't know that you are the real target of Beeeej's on-target analysis of the debate, Kyle.

I disagree with a lot of what you have said here, but you have never taken a tone that suggests that you think that the people who disagree with you shouldn't express their opinion. This thread started with the suggestion that those who merely express the opinion that the cursing has gone overboard or that the dieeeeee cheer should be shelved are a "gestapo". That is amuch more significant gestapo tactic than any of the opinions it attacks.

[Q]ugarte Wrote:
I don't know that you are the real target of Beeeej's on-target analysis of the debate, Kyle.[/q]
Upon reflection, I believe you are right. I wasn't really paying attention to the beginning of the thread, and only really joined it halfway through.
[q]I disagree with a lot of what you have said here, but you have never taken a tone that suggests that you think that the people who disagree with you shouldn't express their opinion. This thread started with the suggestion that those who merely express the opinion that the cursing has gone overboard or that the dieeeeee cheer should be shelved are a "gestapo". That is amuch more significant gestapo tactic than any of the opinions it attacks.[/Q]
I think those complaining about the old-timers who don't like cursing or who want the cheers to remain inviolate until the end of time have a point, but what is said here is almost entirely irrelevant to conduct in the rink: whether I or anyone else doesn't like the "dieeee!!!" cheer or the repeating "you just suck!" in the blackhole cheer has no effect whatsoever on whether the current students continue those cheers or not. So, really, there's no benefit to trying to shut the alums up. It really makes no difference to reality.

Cheers,
Kyle '98

[Q]Tom Pasniewski 98 Wrote:
Also, with regards to cursing and I take no position here, imagine you were the only fan at Lynah during a game - would you scream fuck 'em up, fuck 'em up and have everybody know it was you[/Q]
If you were the only one there how would anybody else know?

Correct on both counts, AFKABRA.

Beeeej

[Q]Facetimer Wrote:

Trigger Wrote:

Ok, now you have gotten me started. The ushers at Lynah are only doing their jobs. It's Andy Noel who doesn't want any of the swearing, etc...and he rules the way he sees fit. I personally feel that "f- em up" isn't understandable enough for kids, since you can tell them people are saying "puck puck puck" or something else, but it still is what it is. Swearing isn't allowed, so now we should change to "rough em up", despite how much we don't want to.
Signs are permissable in Lynah only if they portray "positive messages", which is why signs with sucks and signs like "Nickerson's Home" were confiscated, though I don't believe the carryers of such signs were ejected. Signs like "Nickerson is a bitch" are clearly grounds for removal from Lynah Rink, per the agreement on the back of your ticket stub...
And now the part that's been pissing me off all year....Our Fans Suck now....Some of the stuff they do is just ridiculous, brand new, and not within tradition at all. First, the asshole chant. It's "See ya asshole...you goon"...NOT YOU LOSE!!! Second, Gary Glitter "the fuck-em-up song" to those who don't know, does NOT involve hands in the air. Clap normal, that is the way it has always been. This new raising hands in the air after clapping garbage is annoying and gay. Third, "Frus-TRAAAA-ted", NOT "frustrated" Fourth, you say bend over once and wait for him to do it. You DO NOT chant it. That sounded so stupid the one game where the bend over chant went for a full minute, because the goalie wouldn't do it...it was awful...Fifth, "Rensalear Polytechnic Innnnnnnstitute Sucks", NOT "RPI sucks"...Sixth, "Haaaarvard Sucks", not "Harvard Sucks". You have to draw out the first syllable when you do it. I will teach everyone how in Albany, when I do all the teams at different times. Listen if you are there...Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again.
One final thought...It might be nice to cheer "Let's go red" more often than "Nickerson Sucks"....especially when Nickerson sucks is not helping anything, and the Red could use the encouragement. Once again, the idea is "support the athletes in a positive manner", not to try and piss off the opponent, since it usually does very little. I also think we need a cheering class for all the season ticket holders while they are waiting in line. Maybe Cowbell Guy can do it, since he knows the proper way to do the cheers. We'll see what we can put together...

I couldn't agree with you LESS, Trigger.

Being a good hockey fan isn't about knowing the chants properly, its about being clever, getting into the heads of the other team and using these to get an advantage. When somebody says "you lose" instead of "you goon," just look at them and laugh. The guys on the ice don't care about those chants, and whether or not we waive our hands to the Fuck em Up song. My friends and I joke about the formula for when to jiggle the keys at the end of the game (which can be found somewhere on Adrianno Macchio's wonderful site). Going to the games is not about being predictable. If you want to bring back the Lynah Advantage, come to warmups, and mock the players. Be creative. I made fun of one of the Clarkson guys who tried to flip the puck up off of the ice, and failed. I told him to keep practicing, and without looking at me or saying anything, he flipped a puck up into the stands right at me (the puck was then confiscated by the cops). Granted he showed me that I was wrong, but I knew I got to him. Then when the game starts you can continue to mock them all game. Some cheers pick up, others don't. Believe it or not, I started singing the "Stars at Night" at the begining of the second. The first time I did it, people made fun of me and had no idea what I was doing. The second time a few people joined in. Last I checked, I have all of A and B doing it, and the band playing a subpar rendition of a great song.

Trigger, I see from your IP address thingee that you are writing from a Cornell computer which means you are probably a freshman (or can't find anyone to live with you off campus). I call on you to take the place of our outgoing senior fans like Mike Rosenberg who think of creative chants. Otherwise Lynah will continue to lose its edge.

And with the Cornell administration continuing to censor our materials, this may be all that we have left. [/Q]

Whoops. Anyway, I am not a freshman, obviously, as i know tradition. I can't argue that knowing the exact words to chants is the key to winning, I was merely expressing that it annoyed me. All cheering is for the fans to have fun...it doesn't really affect the players on the ice in most cases. Every now and then the fans get in the head of a player, but it is never just one person. It is everyone chanting together. Granted, someone has to start the chants, which is good, but this phone number crap and some of the new things we have been trying I do not like at all. After speaking with an alumnus friend of mine, your posting name means a lot more to me. Most of the fans this year are just damn face-timers. The freshmen were told before they got here that hockey was the "trendy" thing to do here, so they all made sure to get there early for tickets. Many of them don't know the game, or care about it that much. They go as a social event, and never expected Cornell to lose. These fairweather fans also caused many "real" Cornell fans not to be able to get season tickets, but that is somewhat the administration's fault as well. I don't mean to place blame, and i am not calling anyone specifically a face-timer, but I did notice that sections b, d, and e didn't know many cheers (showing they haven't been around much, and are likely freshmen) and that many of them decided they could start their own at any time, which creates chaos, because no one can tell who to follow. Once again I want to reiterate that "bend over" need only be said once, thank you section d or e for changing that and making it sound cheesy. And I saw the guy shoot the puck toward you, and i thought he should have been at least talked to by the refs, if not ejected. Good to know who you are, though.
[Q]Trigger Wrote:

Facetimer Wrote:

Trigger Wrote:

Ok, now you have gotten me started. The ushers at Lynah are only doing their jobs. It's Andy Noel who doesn't want any of the swearing, etc...and he rules the way he sees fit. I personally feel that "f- em up" isn't understandable enough for kids, since you can tell them people are saying "puck puck puck" or something else, but it still is what it is. Swearing isn't allowed, so now we should change to "rough em up", despite how much we don't want to.
Signs are permissable in Lynah only if they portray "positive messages", which is why signs with sucks and signs like "Nickerson's Home" were confiscated, though I don't believe the carryers of such signs were ejected. Signs like "Nickerson is a bitch" are clearly grounds for removal from Lynah Rink, per the agreement on the back of your ticket stub...
And now the part that's been pissing me off all year....Our Fans Suck now....Some of the stuff they do is just ridiculous, brand new, and not within tradition at all. First, the asshole chant. It's "See ya asshole...you goon"...NOT YOU LOSE!!! Second, Gary Glitter "the fuck-em-up song" to those who don't know, does NOT involve hands in the air. Clap normal, that is the way it has always been. This new raising hands in the air after clapping garbage is annoying and gay. Third, "Frus-TRAAAA-ted", NOT "frustrated" Fourth, you say bend over once and wait for him to do it. You DO NOT chant it. That sounded so stupid the one game where the bend over chant went for a full minute, because the goalie wouldn't do it...it was awful...Fifth, "Rensalear Polytechnic Innnnnnnstitute Sucks", NOT "RPI sucks"...Sixth, "Haaaarvard Sucks", not "Harvard Sucks". You have to draw out the first syllable when you do it. I will teach everyone how in Albany, when I do all the teams at different times. Listen if you are there...Finally, Freshmen, and all others, have no right changing any of the cheers and traditions. If someone starts something new, like the arms thing during gary Glitter, just don't follow them...it won't catch on, and I won't need to write an e-mail like this ever again.
One final thought...It might be nice to cheer "Let's go red" more often than "Nickerson Sucks"....especially when Nickerson sucks is not helping anything, and the Red could use the encouragement. Once again, the idea is "support the athletes in a positive manner", not to try and piss off the opponent, since it usually does very little. I also think we need a cheering class for all the season ticket holders while they are waiting in line. Maybe Cowbell Guy can do it, since he knows the proper way to do the cheers. We'll see what we can put together...

I couldn't agree with you LESS, Trigger.

Being a good hockey fan isn't about knowing the chants properly, its about being clever, getting into the heads of the other team and using these to get an advantage. When somebody says "you lose" instead of "you goon," just look at them and laugh. The guys on the ice don't care about those chants, and whether or not we waive our hands to the Fuck em Up song. My friends and I joke about the formula for when to jiggle the keys at the end of the game (which can be found somewhere on Adrianno Macchio's wonderful site). Going to the games is not about being predictable. If you want to bring back the Lynah Advantage, come to warmups, and mock the players. Be creative. I made fun of one of the Clarkson guys who tried to flip the puck up off of the ice, and failed. I told him to keep practicing, and without looking at me or saying anything, he flipped a puck up into the stands right at me (the puck was then confiscated by the cops). Granted he showed me that I was wrong, but I knew I got to him. Then when the game starts you can continue to mock them all game. Some cheers pick up, others don't. Believe it or not, I started singing the "Stars at Night" at the begining of the second. The first time I did it, people made fun of me and had no idea what I was doing. The second time a few people joined in. Last I checked, I have all of A and B doing it, and the band playing a subpar rendition of a great song.

Trigger, I see from your IP address thingee that you are writing from a Cornell computer which means you are probably a freshman (or can't find anyone to live with you off campus). I call on you to take the place of our outgoing senior fans like Mike Rosenberg who think of creative chants. Otherwise Lynah will continue to lose its edge.

And with the Cornell administration continuing to censor our materials, this may be all that we have left.

[/Q]

[Q]Trigger Wrote:
Every now and then the fans get in the head of a player, but it is never just one person.
[/Q]I disagree.

[Q]Trigger Wrote:

Most of the fans this year are just damn face-timers. The freshmen were told before they got here that hockey was the "trendy" thing to do here, so they all made sure to get there early for tickets. Many of them don't know the game, or care about it that much. They go as a social event, and never expected Cornell to lose.
[/Q]

Well the silver lining of this season's downturn (both compared to the unrealistic expectation that we'll go to the Frozen Four every year, and in absolute terms because while the team did better than most of us expected over the course of the season, the home record was poor, and the early exit from the playoffs was disappointing) is that many of the spectators you speak of will not be back.

Incidentally, I have a story about the phone number thing. My boyfriend went to Princeton this weekend to visit a friend, and it turns out the friend's roommate is the starting goalie for the hockey team (Leroux.) After he found out my boyfriend was a Cornellian, he started him telling how crazy the fans were. He said he came home the weekend after playing in Ithaca and he had dozens of messages on his cell phone telling him he sucks. And the backup goalie's father, who lives in Toronto, got dozens of calls all night. I guess it has its desired effect. It's actually kind of amusing, although I don't necessarily like the fact that they called the father. But, hey he did send his son to Princeton. (not going to dis NJ since I grew up there.)

[Q]Erica Wrote:

Incidentally, I have a story about the phone number thing. My boyfriend went to Princeton this weekend to visit a friend, and it turns out the friend's roommate is the starting goalie for the hockey team (Leroux.) After he found out my boyfriend was a Cornellian, he started him telling how crazy the fans were. He said he came home the weekend after playing in Ithaca and he had dozens of messages on his cell phone telling him he sucks. And the backup goalie's father, who lives in Toronto, got dozens of calls all night. I guess it has its desired effect. It's actually kind of amusing, although I don't necessarily like the fact that they called the father. But, hey he did send his son to Princeton. (not going to dis NJ since I grew up there.) [/Q]But like the players, we have to learn to leave it on the ice. When the game is done, it's over , and we should all be able to go out for a beer together.

We don't want to be like some of those toothpaste schools, do we?

[Q]Jim Hyla Wrote:

But like the players, we have to learn to leave it on the ice. When the game is done, it's over, and we should all be able to go out for a beer together.

We don't want to be like some of those toothpaste schools, do we?
[/Q]

... so are you saying as long as ppl call during the game it is okay???

[Q]ben03 Wrote:

Jim Hyla Wrote:

But like the players, we have to learn to leave it on the ice. When the game is done, it's over, and we should all be able to go out for a beer together.

We don't want to be like some of those toothpaste schools, do we?


... so are you saying as long as ppl call during the game it is okay???
[/Q]Yeah, I guess that's what I said , but I'd rather you cheer instead.

[Q]He said he came home the weekend after playing in Ithaca and he had dozens of messages on his cell phone telling him he sucks. And the backup goalie's father, who lives in Toronto, got dozens of calls all night. I guess it has its desired effect. It's actually kind of amusing, although I don't necessarily like the fact that they called the father. But, hey he did send his son to Princeton. (not going to dis NJ since I grew up there.)[/Q]

Does anyone else find that really really disturbing?

[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:

He said he came home the weekend after playing in Ithaca and he had dozens of messages on his cell phone telling him he sucks. And the backup goalie's father, who lives in Toronto, got dozens of calls all night. I guess it has its desired effect. It's actually kind of amusing, although I don't necessarily like the fact that they called the father. But, hey he did send his son to Princeton. (not going to dis NJ since I grew up there.)

Does anyone else find that really really disturbing? [/Q]

Yes, very.

[Q]Section A Banshee Wrote:

He said he came home the weekend after playing in Ithaca and he had dozens of messages on his cell phone telling him he sucks. And the backup goalie's father, who lives in Toronto, got dozens of calls all night. I guess it has its desired effect. It's actually kind of amusing, although I don't necessarily like the fact that they called the father. But, hey he did send his son to Princeton. (not going to dis NJ since I grew up there.)

Does anyone else find that really really disturbing? [/Q]Yeah, I think that's what I said.

Some thoughts....

Perhaps goalies should keep cellphones on top of the net so we can remind them during the game that they suck or so they can whip it out to celebrate a la that football incident

Perhaps President Lehman can convince the Dean of Students to make Ken Dryden's 'The Game', the freshman reading project for the incoming students. Think about the possibilities...freshman week discussions about proper cheering etiquette, residents of Ithaca (I dislike the word townies) uniting with students, freshman dorms squaring off on Lynah Rink's newly coated surface....alumni involved in discussions on this forum....the list goes on and on. Though 'The Game' doesn't talk about how to cheer at a Cornell hockey game, it should be a read for every Cornell hockey fan and not because it's the 'in' thing to do but because he's an excellent writer.

As an excellent writer, the very well penned piece in the Toronto Globe that he wrote brings up some excellent points - relevant to leaving it on the ice. He states that Canada as a whole may be losing it's connection with the game - that hockey is becoming entertainment to be watched but not to be felt as if it is part of your heritage. Handshakes at the end of the game mean very little if you come away wanting revenge for 'finishing a check'. Taking that desire for revenge with you is not leaving it on the ice. Yes, we're watching college games but some players, like Zach Parise, go only hours between their last college game and an NHL contract. Most college players aspire for something higher if they know they have the talent - the NHL, World Championships, Olympics, etc. but if players aspire to play in the NHL where it's not 'left on the ice', it trickles down to the college game where fans are more connected with the players - see them in class, dining halls, etc. and it's hard to 'leave it on the ice'.

That being said, I think it's funny that people had Leroux's number because Leroux had Harvard's number this season.

This Simpsons quote seems all too relevant for this thread:

LuAnn Van Houten: Well, Marge, the other day, Milhouse told me my meatloaf "sucks." He must have gotten that from your little boy, because they certainly don't say that on TV.