New Arena for Cornell

Looking at the beautiful new facility BU erected for their hockey team, I can't help but think if/when with all the money the university has, when they are going to think about a new facility. Espescially with last year's Frozen 4 appearance.

We should have the equivalent of the USCHO Newbie Guide, with a section of threads that have been started so many times that they should never be started again.

(Note: Hike, this is not a knock on you at all. This just happens to be a thread that seems to start up about every few months, as soon as it falls off the bottom of the screen, somehwat like "When will Harvard join Hockey East?" on USCHO.)

Thanks for volunteering, Greg. :-p

hIKE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looking at the beautiful new facility BU erected
> for their hockey team, I can't help but think
> if/when with all the money the university has,
> when they are going to think about a new facility.
> Espescially with last year's Frozen 4 appearance.

Interesting how much the interior of Agganis looks like Lynah--rafters and all:

[www.uscho.com]

Why I oughta...

comeon guys we dont have to act like people as uscho and criticize people for starting topics. it has been a while since we talked about this

i had thought that they were expanding to add more seats over the locker rooms and building out into the parking lot??

In all seriousness, I wasnt kidding when I said this. Lynah is freakin' old and I think the fans, students, and program deserves a better building to play in.

there is a middle ground in this debate ... wish icould find (but i am too lazy to look) some of the old threads where this was beaten to death in the past.

At short glance, it looks exactly like the arena the Florida Everblades play in. Great design, IMO. Small and intimate, but still luxurious.
That being said, I'm against a new arena. I have heard rumours that Lynah will be renovated as early as this coming summer.

A real college hockey arena HAS to have bench seating. I've been to Tsongas Arena (where UMass Lowell plays) and Merrimack College's home rink (and Lynah of course), and there is something weird about big comfy seats for college hockey. Tsongas has seats, it's a relatively new rink, while the rink at Merrimack, at least time I was there, had character and benches like Lynah (though nowhere near the atmosphere).

Keep the bench seating at Lynah!

If I were to guess, I'd say that if the seats were to be renovated, they'd probably end up looking a lot like Lynah East's seats, with straight benches but each individual seat having its own back.

Then again, what do I know about this sort of thing?

[Q]dsr11 Wrote:
while the rink at Merrimack, at least time I was there, had character and benches like Lynah (though nowhere near the atmosphere).[/Q]
Merrimack's Lawler Rink (was dedicated this year, the building is still known as the Vople Complex) has wooden bleachers (think high school gym), and the only atmosphere comes from visiting fans who invade the place, Merrimack has a very low local draw and relies mostly on the visiting teams fans. The students only had "Lets go Merrimack!" until this year when a student brought in a cowbell, which they now follow along to a slow clap right before the drop of the puck at the beginning of a period, that's it, no cowbell cadences or other cheers, just "lets go merrimack" and the slow clap... Not even a sieve chant, sad.

Lawler rink is usually looked down upon as the bastard child of Hockey East, with many newer arenas such as UNH's Whittemore Center, U-Mass Lowell's Tsongas Arena, and U-Mass's (Amherst) Mullins Center. It holds just about 3.5k, if I remember right, with bleachers on the sides and no seating behind the nets. The bleachers are only 10 rows high so no matter where you sit you have a close to the ice feeling. The scoreboards (behind each goal) look like they were put in when the arena was originally built. If I can find my digital camera hook up I will post some photos, rough stuff.

EDIT: See previous post, thanks Age.

Sorry. Editing works now (if you're logged in). I also fixed the quoting and your first post.

Before I post, it's interesting to note that the email address entered by this thread's starter matches the one used by someone who is at least connected to our least-favorite fellow poster (see link). This smacks along the lines of "Schafer Should Resign" and "Pep Band Should Not Travel."

Note emails of several offensive posters in this thread: [elf.elynah.com]

Anyway, I'll now comment as if this were a serious discussion. Remember that SLU's Appleton Arena has been renovated several years ago, and those renovations didn't effect the atmosphere there at all. Cornell has already invested money in the past 5 years in upgrading the ice equipment, the boards, the glass, and the locker rooms. I don't see how all of a sudden they would think a whole new facility is needed. Adding on to the facilities available to the student-athletes and coaches for training and conditioning? I'm all for it.

Read one post-game recap after another this season and you'll be amazed at how many visiting coaches and players comment about what a treat it is for them to come play at Lynah. A huge majority of fans, players, and coaches love Lynah, and I wouldn't change a thing.

I agree with the renovation route instead of a new arena, it's seemed to work for Maine pretty well, where as schools like UNH who have opted to build have taken a big hit in the atomsphere department.

yeah but what else is there to renovate at lynah

[Q]Rob NH Wrote:
I agree with the renovation route instead of a new arena, it's seemed to work for Maine pretty well, where as schools like UNH who have opted to build have taken a big hit in the atomsphere department. [/Q]
See: Clarkson

I'm thinking....jumbotron.

And perhaps a cotton candy vendor.

yeah, a jumbotron with video, and replays

On the St. Lawrence postgame thread calgARI '07 said he thought the ice was "noticeably bad". Can someone knowledgeable comment on how the ice can be improved? I remember that in the early 1990s the corner of the rink near section A would still be wet from the zamboni well into the next period. I thought that the cooling equipment had been overhauled/upgraded in the Schafer era but I also always felt the Lynah was pretty warm compared to other rinks I've been to - perhaps the relatively low ceiling plus a packed house? I know the ice takes a beating from all of the practices, intramurals, etc. Do they ever melt the ice and start over during the regular season?

[Q]bill Wrote:

On the St. Lawrence postgame thread calgARI '07 said he thought the ice was "noticeably bad". Can someone knowledgeable comment on how the ice can be improved? I remember that in the early 1990s the corner of the rink near section A would still be wet from the zamboni well into the next period. I thought that the cooling equipment had been overhauled/upgraded in the Schafer era but I also always felt the Lynah was pretty warm compared to other rinks I've been to - perhaps the relatively low ceiling plus a packed house? I know the ice takes a beating from all of the practices, intramurals, etc. Do they ever melt the ice and start over during the regular season? [/Q]

Back in the summer of 2000, they did completely overhaul the ice. I have some pictures I took when occasionally wandering by. They took everything out all the way down to the ice. I believe that was also when they redid the boards/glass.

Once hockey season is officially over, the ice seems to be melting ASAP. During the spring, floor hockey gets played on the underlying concrete. And the ice stays out all summer, pretty much till sometime in September I believe.

I agree this one has been beaten to death in the past. A lot of the discussion has been divided along lines of old/small/good atmosphere v. new/big/dead atmosphere. I think what's more important is whether Lynah is meeting the needs of the team and its fans. Every year the season ticket distribution system seems to be a mess, no matter what the Athletic Department tries. There were also some threads in the fall about serious fans being shut out and complaints about face-timers winding up with tickets. Can we put the pieces together here? Do something to create adequate seating capacity, and the lottery issues go poof. A bigger arena doesn't have to be quieter. Anyone having doubts about this, please take a weekend trip to Ann Arbor for a game at Yost, which packs in 6000+ fans every game. You may wind up referring to Yost as Lynah West. I'm not suggesting that a rink at Cornell should be that big, but there is demand that would justify expansion. It's not "Build it and they will come" but "They're coming already, so build it already."

Reminds me of an old story about Ned Harkness when he was coaching at RPI. Apparently, he would adjust ice temparature to compensate for opponents' capabilities. When they faced a team with a lot of speed, the ice temperature would go up, making for a slower surface, and vice versa. It may not be true, but it's fun to believe it is.

Lynah was renovated in the late 80s/early 90s to have year round ice, and continues to have summer ice to this day. ask anyone who has been to cornell hockey camp. i'm sure that they scratch the ice at least twice a year, but i doubt its much more than that.

Where the heck would you put a jumbotron in Lynah? You certainly can't hang it from the rafters or the roof would collapse. Don't know why you'd really want one anyway.

Anyone who's been to the hospital in Potsdam should know better than to ask for a new rink... I don't think you could possibly improve on the recruiting appeal of Lynah, at least from the game perspective. Sur edo your best to make sure that the behind the scenes facilities are top notch, but there's no reason to change the better part of the rink itself. Any kid who thinks, I don't want to come to Cornell because they don't have a jumbotron, is someone I can live without.

Besides, a new rink wouldn't have any where near the same level of "quality" in the visiting locker rooms...

As Jack parker says in the article on USCHO about BU's new arena, you want to make sure that you get a full house and have demand for tickets. That's why he pushed for a 6000 seat arena at BU, when others involved were talking 9000. Sure, we could probably sell 5000 seats easily for many games right now. But that might not always be the case. Besides, there are enough empty seats at the start of games as it is. I don't want to think of the wholes in the crowd with another 1000 seats.

When you compare with Yosy, don't forget that Michigan is a much bigger school. Without looking I'd bet that Ann Arbor is bigger than Ithaca too.

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:

Reminds me of an old story about Ned Harkness when he was coaching at RPI. Apparently, he would adjust ice temparature to compensate for opponents' capabilities. When they faced a team with a lot of speed, the ice temperature would go up, making for a slower surface, and vice versa. It may not be true, but it's fun to believe it is. [/Q] It's certainly a story that has been running around RPI for years.

I may just be a bit bizzarre, but I think we need to come up with a name for Agganis rink. I suggest the "Hairy Organs Center" but I've welcome any other suggestions.

JH

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:

Reminds me of an old story about Ned Harkness when he was coaching at RPI. Apparently, he would adjust ice temparature to compensate for opponents' capabilities. When they faced a team with a lot of speed, the ice temperature would go up, making for a slower surface, and vice versa. It may not be true, but it's fun to believe it is. [/Q]

The story I remember (urban legend?) was about Clarkson. One of my buddies, who was in the Pep Band, said that the week before playing at Clarrkson, Cornell would turn the temp up a bit to soften the ice and move the goals in a few feet at each end because Clarkson's rink was shorter. Ring a bell with anyone?

can you say "veeck"?

Grant it, BU does have a great recruiting class coming in including Ray Borque's son but I was at the BU-UNH game last night and there were a lot of empty seats ( I believe attendance was announced at just over 2700). I think they're heading into Spring Break next week so some students may have left early. Grant it, they're not just having an off year, they're having a terrible year. In all of Parker's years, they've never failed to get to 10 wins, and they're at 9 right now. If things stay the way they are, they're likely headed down the street to the oversized Conte Forum at BC for the first round. I was there last week for BC-UNH and there were a lot of empty seats when, at the time, they were the unanimous #1 team in the nation. BC made the mistake, IMHO, of adding a balcony which can put you far removed from the ice. It provides for a great view but I'll go catch a Bruins game if I want to sit that far from the ice.

As long as you can keep the fans very close to the ice and the place consistently packed without turning away too many people and the facilities are good, and we do have a great strength and conditioning center, then all is good for the fans and the team. Without knowing how many people are shutout from attending each game, then it's hard to say an addition is need although I thought the number 500 additional seats had been reported in a study.

You don't want to have a situation like at Harvard where I'm headed tonight where even with Vermont's basketball team in town for their conferences tournament at BU this weekend, there will still be plenty of tickets available to buy at the door. In the time I've followed Cornell hockey (since 1993), we have for the most part put together good teams and put together outstanding attendance. I would hate to ever see the time come when a student could walk up to the ticket office the night of the game and get a ticket - not to keep facetimers out but to think of empty seats at Lynah.

And to keep rattling off Boston sports venues, take Fenway Park, long thought to be going the way of Tiger Stadium and the like with a new stadium on the table. Yet with small additions here and there, the old ballpark seems to have won out even though demand for tickets has never been higher. You're close to the action with mainly one deck. Fans want seats that are close to the action and teams want fans in those seats and Lynah meets those criteria.

Keith,

UofMich arena draws fans from a huge area - I used to go to several games a year growing up and it was an hour's drive one way from NW Detroit burbs.... Also usually played at least 1 or 2 HS and 2-3 Midget or Bamtam games there a year back many years ... I remember the huge ice surface - lots of room to skate!

I always thought that it would be a good idea to put a small balcony or some form of luxury boxes along the west wall of Lynah (near the scoreboard). The closest thing I can think of is the press box at PU's Baker Rink.

There are a few options and advantages. Of course, more people would be able to see the game, albeit only a hundred or so. In addition, the universtiy may be able to use the boxes to leverage alumni giving. Another option is to combine boxes and a new press box above the goal and glass on the west end, which would mean more student seating where the current press box stands.

Just my 2 cents. But it's something I think of every time I visit Lynah.

Here we go; starting all over again with post #1 ...

[Q]I always thought that it would be a good idea to put a small balcony or some form of luxury boxes along the west wall of Lynah (near the scoreboard). [/Q]


Achilles Rink up at Union has something similar, not really a luxury box, but an area for the press to sit.

[Q]UofMich arena draws fans from a huge area [/Q]I was thinking that too, Lou, but I'd figured since I didn't know for sure I'd keep my mouth shut. [[I]I don't think he knows how message boards work - ed.[/I]]

My understanding is that they let the ice melt as soon as the season is over, but then make it again for the summer camps and to encourage the team to work together over the summer.

I'd wager that almost any college rink has, on the average, better ice than most pro rinks. Any place that is dedicated to skating is going to be better off than a multi-use facility. For example, when we went to Chicago Wolves game last Saturday evening, I commented that the ice seemed pretty bad, with the way the puck was bouncing and the players were falling down spontaneously. It turned out that there had been a college basketball game in the same arena that afternoon, with the court laid down over the ice.

Lots of sports teams do that. I'm not sure how a basketball team could make its own home-court advantage be dynamic and change with respect to opponents. Baseball teams last year would soak the dirt and grass in front of home plate when the Marlins came into town. Their first two hitters (Pierre and Castillo) were always threats to slash at the ball (Baltimore chop or just basic precision swinging bunts), but with the ground mushy, the balls wouldn't spring off from the bat the way the hitters were used to, and wouldn't be nearly as effective as when they could have their home field compliment their skills and weapons.

I never thought about hockey as being able to have a dynamic home-ice advantage, until now, thanks all (always) for the hockey history.

Ah! You left the italics tag open! NOOOOO!!!![/i]

Ah, that's better.

[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:It's not "Build it and they will come" but "They're coming already, so build it already." [/Q]

That's a good reason to fill in the open end (if it can be done under code). It't not a good reason to scrap the whole building. One of the reasons they're coming is the intimacy of the building creates the very atmosphere that people want to come to.

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

I may just be a bit bizzarre, but I think we need to come up with a name for Agganis rink. I suggest the "Hairy Organs Center" but I've welcome any other suggestions.

JH [/Q]
The Hairy Anus Arena. Sasquatch anyone?

I agree with all these points. I'm not necessarily advocating a mega-rink at Cornell or even replacing Lynah. The point I was trying to make is simply that a bigger rink doesn't necessarily have to result in worse atmosphere. If enclosing the open end/adding 500 seats to the current building will take care of unmet demand for seats, then great!

A number of press boxes are in the end zone - Princeton, BU's old (well, not that old) arena. Terrible place to watch the game. While it may not sadden you to see the media stuck in lousy seats, subconsciously they'll grouse about the place more. That's not good for the hockey program.

This is the eLynah fans' plan to build a new rink, not Cornell's? I came back to Lynah for the Princeton-Yale weekend for the first time in a long while (last time, Dick Bertrand was still coach) and it seemed about the same raffishly charming and worn building, even down to Mike Teeter manning the goal judge booth. (And the same tattered hockey pants, but I mentioned that in a different thread.) I love the concourse / connector so you've got someplace to go between periods if you want; that's a definite improvement.

Once the game started, you don't notice what the facility is like.

If we build a new rink, where does it go? Lower and Upper Alumni Fields aren't quite as available as they used to be. I'm assuming Cornell would like to maintain the common concourse area.

What's the right number of seats? 3800 as it is now? 5000? 6000? Sure, it would be great to have the new Ken Dryden Hall (wait, don't we already have a Dryden Hall?) sold out for every game *if* you're one of the people who's already got seats. Why shouldn't a college sports team - um, that's what Cornell hockey is - be accessible to its students who have the urge to go see a game when it interests them? Also, you can always fill in the last 500 empty seats on non-Harvard nights with comps to youth league teams.

It took a lot of foresight to build Lynah in the 1950s with 3800 seats. Who knew what Ned Harkness would accomplish a decade later and make it worthwhile?

It sounds as if the first order of business would be to see if the open end of the horseshoe could be filled in to go +500 seats. If the ideal size for a new Lynah is 5000 seats, 4300-4400 might be enough to make a difference.

It might also be useful to find out if the condition of Lynah is a negative or a neutral with the players and their parents. Who wouldn't want to play in North Dakota's 11,000 seat arena? But you've got to go to school there and get your diploma there and you're kind of in the middle of nowhere, unlike Cornell, which is -- well, more centrally located than UND.

A new sports building also stirs up the faculty, who always complain about being overworked and underpaid and having lousy working conditions.

Fixed it. Sorry....

[Q]LB Wrote:
And perhaps a cotton candy vendor. [/Q]
Mmm.... I like that idea. Maybe they could arrange for one of those even without major renovations?

[Q]Greg Berge Wrote:

ninian '72 Wrote:It's not "Build it and they will come" but "They're coming already, so build it already."

That's a good reason to fill in the open end (if it can be done under code). It't not a good reason to scrap the whole building. One of the reasons they're coming is the intimacy of the building creates the very atmosphere that people want to come to. [/Q]

And round and round we go. I guess this one won't get resolved until Lynah gets so old and decrepit that something major has to be done. The Yost rink is in a building that was constructed in the 1920's, so based on that example, the day may never come.

See y'all the next time this threat starts again.