Union @ Cornell

Since no one else has started the game thread.

Mitchell was on the ice for warmups.

Whoa, we came out hot.

Nice catch by Schafer, there. Let's cash in.

Narrator: we did.

Penalty at 07:31

Max Andreev	   Gabriel Seger	   Sam Malinski	        PPG	08:59
Dalton Bancroft	   Max Andreev	           Sam Malinski	        PPG	11:40
Ondrej Psenicka	   Travis Mitchell	   Travis Mitchell	PPG	11:51
Nick DeSantis	   Ben Berard	           Travis Mitchell	PPG	12:02
Dalton Bancroft	   Travis Mitchell			                12:34 (3 seconds after penalty expired)

That's what we need more of on the power play. Work the puck low to pass it back up high.

Score: Schafer 3 Cornell 1 Union 0

Holy shit. This must have been what 1967 was like.

4 goals in 54 seconds, 4 goals on a major, 1 second from 5.

Jaysus

We have 6 goals.

Union has 0 shots.

Connor Murphy tonight:

25.05 GAA

.375 Sv%

Jack O'Brien sighting.

Jimmy Rayhill still waiting.

"Zach is better!" chant.

Trotsky
Nice catch by Schafer, there. Let's cash in.

How did two refs miss a high stick to the head?

George64

Trotsky
Nice catch by Schafer, there. Let's cash in.

How did two refs miss a high stick to the head?

My guess is they were watching the shot.

Trotsky
Holy shit. This must have been what 1967 was like.

I thought I remembered such games, but I’ve been over at TBRW, and all I can find is a few 4-goal first periods. Do you know of any 6-goal first- or other periods? Or have we just witnessed a record-setting, historically significant period?

I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

Correct.

January 21, 1978.

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

[www.tbrw.info]

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

We scored 11 against RPI last year, so we must’ve had an equivalent period (I’m too lazy to check TBRW)

7 against Colgate in 1967

I believe our record is 9 for any one period, against Yale in 1968.

Note how rare second assists were. Not sure if that was the nature of the goals or if it was just not usual to give 2 assists back then.

Trotsky
7 against Colgate in 1967

And the Colgate goalie wasn’t pulled in that one

Sorry; I wasn't clear. Bertrand pulled the goalie looking for #10....

dag14
Sorry; I wasn't clear. Bertrand pulled the goalie looking for #10....

"Dick Bertrand before he dicks you."

Andreev 1 on 3 and he holds his own.

scoop85

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

We scored 11 against RPI last year, so we must’ve had an equivalent period (I’m too lazy to check TBRW)

We had 5 in the first in that game.

Gate is losing to RPI.

Trotsky
I believe our record is 9 for any one period, against Yale in 1968.

Note how rare second assists were. Not sure if that was the nature of the goals or if it was just not usual to give 2 assists back then.

IIRC, we were much faster than many teams made up of mostly Usonians. So we scored on lots of breakaways and 2-on-1’s.

Yet another 11-goal weekend.

Shouldn't they pull Shane now that the shutout chance is gone, and give the backup some time?

nshapiro
Shouldn't they pull Shane now that the shutout chance is gone, and give the backup some time?

Yes, probably a good chance we may see Keopple get the 3rd.

Scary thing is, Union's second goalie is actually playing well.

scoop85

nshapiro
Shouldn't they pull Shane now that the shutout chance is gone, and give the backup some time?

Yes, probably a good chance we may see Keopple get the 3rd.

I would be for that.

Trotsky

scoop85

nshapiro
Shouldn't they pull Shane now that the shutout chance is gone, and give the backup some time?

Yes, probably a good chance we may see Keopple get the 3rd.

I would be for that.

Hell, give McInchak some time.

Trotsky

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

[www.tbrw.info]

Take a look at who was in goal for Yale...

SOG given up by Cornell, last 3 periods:

2. 2. 3.

dag14
I am pretty sure there was a 9-0 first period v. Yale I think, under Bertrand in the Brock Tredway era. I remember because he pulled the goalie with a faceoff in the defensive zone, claiming he wanted the players to practice that play.

I can verify this. I was at that game.

Dartmouth led Q 1-0 after 1. No update since.

I believe the 1968 Yale game was in New Haven, and was essentially Cornell’s revenge for breaking Cornell’s 7 year(?) winning streak at Lynch with a 3-2 win the prior year. This game ended up 18-1, Cornell.

hypotenuse
I believe the 1968 Yale game was in New Haven, and was essentially Cornell’s revenge for breaking Cornell’s 7 year(?) winning streak at Lynch with a 3-2 win the prior year. This game ended up 18-1, Cornell.

It was in New Haven. We beat them 6-0 in Ithaca. But Cornell's home winning streak started *after* the Yale loss.

nshapiro
Shouldn't they pull Shane now that the shutout chance is gone, and give the backup some time?

I agree. In 1970, Ned put the late, great Bob Rule in, replacing Brain Cropper (who’s he?) in a 11-5 game at Princeton. Schafer has substituted a few times in blowouts, but more frequently he’s gone with the horse that brought him.

Why is Shane still in the game?

Surprised Schafer didn’t give Keopple a period.

scoop85
Surprised Schafer didn’t give Keopple a period.

Mildly, though Mike does not often do that. (Granted, we are not often up by 7.)

hypotenuse
I believe the 1968 Yale game was in New Haven, and was essentially Cornell’s revenge for breaking Cornell’s 7 year(?) winning streak at Lynch with a 3-2 win the prior year. This game ended up 18-1, Cornell.

19-1

I wonder whether Malinski has any shot at ECAC POTY.

RPI up on Colgate 2-1 with 41 seconds to go.

Mcinchak not Koepple. Hmmmm

Trotsky
RPI up on Colgate 2-1 with 41 seconds to go.

RPI won its first road game of the season.

Largest margin of victory in Schafer's coaching career.

ursusminor

Trotsky
RPI up on Colgate 2-1 with 41 seconds to go.

RPI won its first road game of the season.

Thank you very much!

Trotsky
I wonder whether Malinski has any shot at ECAC POTY.

For him to do what he's doing is nuts. A 10-game point streak and consistent goal scoring to boot? The guy is literally an offensive threat anytime he's on the ice. I can't think of any Cornell D who has given me that feeling in the past 10-15 years. As good as Kaldis was, Malinski is on another level offensively.

And with all that we dropped to 12 in the Pairwise for the moment.

Iceberg

Trotsky
I wonder whether Malinski has any shot at ECAC POTY.

For him to do what he's doing is nuts. A 10-game point streak and consistent goal scoring to boot? The guy is literally an offensive threat anytime he's on the ice. I can't think of any Cornell D who has given me that feeling in the past 10-15 years. As good as Kaldis was, Malinski is on another level offensively.

19 points in those 10 games. Now free and clear leading ECAC D'men in scoring, and 5th overall.

Winning. It does not suck.

A thing I did not expect to see.

Leading power play percentage, NCAA:

1. .3247 Cornell
2. .3243 North Dakota
3. .3000 UMass
4. .2688 UNO
5. .2323 Minn-Mankato

or the fact that the top 2 are about .10 better than even 5th place.

At the risk of sounding like a Luddite or an idiot, we win 10-1 and drop in the PWR. This suggests that what other teams do is more important than what you do. SMH

Cornell 1969-70 44x122 .3607

arugula
At the risk of sounding like a Luddite or an idiot, we win 10-1 and drop in the PWR. This suggests that what other teams do is more important than what you do. SMH

It seems dumb but what it means is we beat somebody bad so we didn't get very much credit for it. Also, some other stuff probably happened to shift around our SOS.

I know I just wish I could see from the scores what that would be.

arugula
I know I just wish I could see from the scores what that would be.

UMD lost, that probably didn't help.

Trotsky

arugula
At the risk of sounding like a Luddite or an idiot, we win 10-1 and drop in the PWR. This suggests that what other teams do is more important than what you do. SMH

It seems dumb but what it means is we beat somebody bad so we didn't get very much credit for it. Also, some other stuff probably happened to shift around our SOS.

It's a little more complicated than that. It would help if I could find the pairwise from before tonight's games. But what I think happened is this:

There's us, Michigan Tech, and Harvard. We had the best RPI, which is the tiebreaker. Then Harvard, then Michigan Tech. Cause Harvard beat us twice they win their comparison to us. And we lose ours with Minnesota Duluth as well. Harvard wound up 1st of the three and two comparisons ahead of us, then we were tied with Tech, so we were ahead cause of the tiebreaker.

Tonight, Tech passed Harvard in RPI and flipped that comparison. Now they're each one comparison ahead of us and tied with each other, and Tech wins that tiebreak. So it's Tech, Harvard, us.

We have a good chance of flipping the Harvard comparison back if we either play well enough to win the common opponent category or beat Harvard head to head. UMD, oh well, that ship has sailed.

But we are 10th in RPI, which is a good place to be in.
that Michigan Tech passed Harvard in RPI and leapfrogged us because they flipped their pairwise with Harvard.

We are also on the wrong end of a weird situation. PWR tracks almost perfectly with RPI, but we are behind not just Harvard but also Michigan Tech in PWR despite being ahead of them in RPI. We are actually #10 in RPI.

arugula
At the risk of sounding like a Luddite or an idiot, we win 10-1 and drop in the PWR. This suggests that what other teams do is more important than what you do. SMH

Not really. First of all, score differential doesn’t factor in. Second, our RPI improved. That creates more separation between us and the teams below us, which makes it more likely we qualify for the NCAAs. After tonight we are more likely to make the NCAAs than we were before tonight.

We dropped in the PWR because we win fewer “comparisons” than Michigan Tech and Harvard, who are tied for #10, despite us having better RPI than them both. They each win 50 comparisons and we win 49. The reason for this is that we lost two games to Harvard and two to Minnesota-Duluth, so we lose comparisons to those teams.

There will be weird fluctuations in the Pairwise for the rest of the season. It definitely isn’t great that we lost to Harvard and Duluth twice. But if we maintain our current level of winning, we will make the NCAAs. We are in good position now, with quite a bit of RPI separation between us and the teams below us.

(jinx)

Can we play well down the stretch.. we should be top 4..
So that means 5 home games left, need them all.

then road vs colg/brown/yale..
Colgate has played us tough lately.

Brown/Yale 2 of the bottom 3 with little to play for, can we be mentally tough to end the yr.

if we got 7-1 to get to the ECAC final 4 we should be in good shape.

BearLover
We are in good position now, with quite a bit of RPI separation between us and the teams below us.

We are actually closer to 9 than 11 and to 8 than 12 in RPI:

08  .562  +.007  St. Cloud
09  .558  +.003  Western Michigan
10  .555         Cornell
11  .550  -.005  Michigan Tech
12  .547  -.008  Harvard

Based on the idea that our opponents doing well should help our PWR, I get why UMD and Clarkson faltering hurts us, but shouldn’t BU and Q winning help us? Doesn’t seem to. I’m just exasperated. I know theres logic to this but the logic seems to always go the other way.

arugula
Based on the idea that our opponents doing well should help our PWR, I get why UMD and Clarkson faltering hurts us, but shouldn’t BU and Q winning help us? Doesn’t seem to. I’m just exasperated. I know theres logic to this but the logic seems to always go the other way.

Q winning doesn't help because it's in conference against a team we have played the same number of times. So robbing Peter pays Paul.

arugula
Based on the idea that our opponents doing well should help our PWR, I get why UMD and Clarkson faltering hurts us, but shouldn’t BU and Q winning help us? Doesn’t seem to. I’m just exasperated. I know theres logic to this but the logic seems to always go the other way.

In-conference games are basically a wash since we play both the loser and the winner. As mentioned above, our RPI, which is a function of win% and SOS, improved tonight. The Pairwise is largely RPI, but not exactly (the difference was summarized earlier in this thread, but there are also more involved primers on the ranking that can be found online). We are in better position to make the NCAAs now than we were before tonight, because our RPI improved and we avoided a bad loss. Don’t pay too much attention to small fluctuations in the Pairwise or you will miss the forest for the trees.

Got it. Still doesn’t explain why BU shooting up the ratings hasn’t helped. Or perhaps it has just not as much as other factors have hurt us.

The idea that the conference games are a wash supports the idea that we should schedule as strong an OOC slate as possible. We had this debate a few years ago and the perspective was decidedly split. I guess UMD is theoretically an opponent to strengthen that aspect but they have had a down year. Instead of AIC and SHU perhaps Hockey East opponents? Otoh you want to win the OOC games. Science!

BearLover
Don’t pay too much attention to small fluctuations in the Pairwise or you will miss the forest for the trees.

PWR is one of those things that has meaning for any given reading, but has no meaning when you look at local fluctuations around a given reading. I'm sure there is a clever word for this in metrics.

arugula
Got it. Still doesn’t explain why BU shooting up the ratings hasn’t helped. Or perhaps it has just not as much as other factors have hurt us.

The idea that the conference games are a wash supports the idea that we should schedule as strong an OOC slate as possible. We had this debate a few years ago and the perspective was decidedly split. I guess UMD is theoretically an opponent to strengthen that aspect but they have had a down year. Instead of AIC and SHU perhaps Hockey East opponents? Otoh you want to win the OOC games. Science!

I don't think anybody opposes strong NC opponents, per se. The question is whether scheduling them early when we have had far fewer (or no) games under our belt is wise.

As for swapping weaker for stronger teams, it's not that easy -- it's about finding a dance partner with the same hole in their schedule. I'm sure we would have LOVED to play that pair against North Dakota or BC or Penn State rather than AIC, but we can't dictate who has their evenings free.

True. H has the advantage of many strong, local, non-league teams they can easily fit in without a long trip, plus the Beanpot always provides two quality losses. For us I guess the closest strong non league program would be Penn State.

I agree it would be worth our while to develop Pedo State as a rival, if they have any interest at all. It looks like they are going to be a consistently good program, there are commonalities in our university missions, and they aren't far.

RIT is super close, but they aren't consistent and they have Loser Conference stank. I guess the next likely suspect is... back to Burlington? (except they suck) or UConn.

Trotsky
Holy shit. This must have been what 1967 was like.

That's just what I told my wife during the first intermission.

The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Anyone have a link to video of the scoring breakout?

Take a look at Penn State's non-conference schedule -- against which it went 9-0

Trotsky
The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Is there any rumor of CMU fielding a team, or did you just pick them? I suppose they could be Princeton's travel partner.

DL
Anyone have a link to video of the scoring breakout?

This!

adamw
Take a look at Penn State's non-conference schedule -- against which it went 9-0

Very weak and a lot of close games. All AHA or independent.

ursusminor

Trotsky
The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Is there any rumor of CMU fielding a team, or did you just pick them? I suppose they could be Princeton's travel partner.

None at all. I was fantasizing.

arugula
Got it. Still doesn’t explain why BU shooting up the ratings hasn’t helped. Or perhaps it has just not as much as other factors have hurt us.

The idea that the conference games are a wash supports the idea that we should schedule as strong an OOC slate as possible. We had this debate a few years ago and the perspective was decidedly split. I guess UMD is theoretically an opponent to strengthen that aspect but they have had a down year. Instead of AIC and SHU perhaps Hockey East opponents? Otoh you want to win the OOC games. Science!

Another thing to remember is that a lot of teams play each other. So BU doing well helps us some, but it also helps a bunch of other teams. And Hockey East teams play BU twice, so it helps them more than us.

dag14
Sorry; I wasn't clear. Bertrand pulled the goalie looking for #10....

Given how hockey was then I am actually surprised Yale didn't start the second period with four successive line brawls.

I was late to start watching; when I clicked it on, it was 1-0 and the refs were conferring to decide if there had been a major penalty. What a sequence- Union’s feet were just stuck in the mud as Cornell skated by at will for the full 5 min.

Trotsky

ursusminor

Trotsky
The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Is there any rumor of CMU fielding a team, or did you just pick them? I suppose they could be Princeton's travel partner.

None at all. I was fantasizing.

A day in Pittsburgh. I'm a bit worried about your fantasies, man.

(They do have a club team.)

arugula

adamw
Take a look at Penn State's non-conference schedule -- against which it went 9-0

Very weak and a lot of close games. All AHA or independent.

Which I guess is the point. Penn State doesn’t want any decent opponents outside their league.

arugula

arugula

adamw
Take a look at Penn State's non-conference schedule -- against which it went 9-0

Very weak and a lot of close games. All AHA or independent.

Which I guess is the point. Penn State doesn’t want any decent opponents outside their league.

Or they have the same problem we do.

Give My Regards

Trotsky

ursusminor

Trotsky
The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Is there any rumor of CMU fielding a team, or did you just pick them? I suppose they could be Princeton's travel partner.

None at all. I was fantasizing.

A day in Pittsburgh. I'm a bit worried about your fantasies, man.

Pittsburgh has had a pretty good tech industry seeding in the past couple of decades (proximity to CMU certainly helps), and with that a lot of good things happening there. I know I had a lot of fun there for the Frozen Four, and you’d be hard pressed to find another city that inspires such fervent civic pride amongst its regional natives.

I dont know I never realized that the major becomes a new PP after a goal is scored.. Maybe its because we never seemed to score on them..

did anyone look up fastest 4 goal stretches.. 4 in a min is pretty crazy

upprdeck
I dont know I never realized that the major becomes a new PP after a goal is scored.. Maybe its because we never seemed to score on them..

did anyone look up fastest 4 goal stretches.. 4 in a min is pretty crazy

Three goals in 22 seconds might be a Cornell record for fastest 3 goals. The Cornell Hockey Record Book (image attached) shows 3 goals in 24 seconds in a game back in 1976, but the Record Book only goes through the 1986-87 season, and I don't have the means (or the desire) to check the intervening 36 years.

I've never researched fastest 4 goals. I do recall Carlo Ugolini scoring 4 goals in 53 seconds in a freshman game, though.

marty

DL
Anyone have a link to video of the scoring breakout?

This!

Thanks! Shame it was just highlights instead of full play time surrounding the goals, considering how short it was.

I rewatched the first period -that was fun- and picking up on something Grady said I rewound and watched goals two through six. I believe those five goals were scored on five shots. There’s several shot attempts between goals two and three but I don’t think any would be official shots as they were wide or never made it to the net.

DL

marty

DL
Anyone have a link to video of the scoring breakout?

This!

Thanks! Shame it was just highlights instead of full play time surrounding the goals, considering how short it was.

13 minutes and 13 seconds for your entertainment.

Fastest 4 in NHL is apparently 80 seconds during this fascinating game, during which Boston also had 3 goals in a different 51 second interval.

RichH

Give My Regards

Trotsky

ursusminor

Trotsky
The real solution is for CMU to go D-1 and join the ECAC. Tartans is an awesome nickname and they'd slot in between Cornell, RPI, and Clarkson for an Eng school, and we could kick out Q. Add RIT and kick out Union and now we're talking.

Is there any rumor of CMU fielding a team, or did you just pick them? I suppose they could be Princeton's travel partner.

None at all. I was fantasizing.

A day in Pittsburgh. I'm a bit worried about your fantasies, man.

Pittsburgh has had a pretty good tech industry seeding in the past couple of decades (proximity to CMU certainly helps), and with that a lot of good things happening there. I know I had a lot of fun there for the Frozen Four, and you’d be hard pressed to find another city that inspires such fervent civic pride amongst its regional natives.

Cleveland? Buffalo?