ECAC Playoff Changes

First round for men to be single game starting this year. Quarters still best of three.

Women to expand to 12 teams starting next year.

[ecachockey.com]

Do the playoff games count for RPI/PWR?

Chris '03
First round for men to be single game starting this year. Quarters still best of three.

Women to expand to 12 teams starting next year.

[ecachockey.com]

I'm always amused at that tagline in the ECAC hockey releases:

Established in 1961-62, ECAC Hockey is home to elite student-athletes from 12 of the nation's most prestigious institutions: Brown University, Clarkson University, Colgate University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, Quinnipiac University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, St. Lawrence University, Union College, and Yale University.

Obviously there are "prestigious" schools among those 12, but one not-so prestigious school in particular stands out like a sore thumb.

is this really a good thing and why the change?

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

I would say it is somewhat of a good thing if you are perennially in the top 4 (Cornell) because the chance of an upset in the 5-12 series is greater in a one game playoff than a best of three, thus theoretically increasing your chances of getting a weaker opponent in the quarters. Maybe?

Was this a way to try to limit some wear and tear on the bottom 8 so they dont play 3 then 3 then get to the final 4?

Its gonna cost them money since you take out 4-8 games..

I wonder if they’re also adding a week to the women’s season when they go to 12 or if they’ll have something like a Tuesday playoff game for teams 9-12.

Chris '03
First round for men to be single game starting this year. Quarters still best of three.

Women to expand to 12 teams starting next year.

[ecachockey.com]

I know it’s not a huge deal, and it’s hard to imagine a team altering anything that might have happened because of it, but does it strike anyone else as odd that they announced a post-season format change after the league has already started play in that season?

It’s possible the schools/programs approved this prior to the season and it’s just the league office being typically lackadaisical in their press releases & communications.

scoop85

Chris '03
First round for men to be single game starting this year. Quarters still best of three.

Women to expand to 12 teams starting next year.

[ecachockey.com]

I'm always amused at that tagline in the ECAC hockey releases:

Established in 1961-62, ECAC Hockey is home to elite student-athletes from 12 of the nation's most prestigious institutions: Brown University, Clarkson University, Colgate University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Princeton University, Quinnipiac University, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, St. Lawrence University, Union College, and Yale University.

Obviously there are "prestigious" schools among those 12, but one not-so prestigious school in particular stands out like a sore thumb.

Hasn't Dartmouth suffered enough?

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

It's one step closer to getting rid of the First Round entirely, so, yes.

CU2007

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

I would say it is somewhat of a good thing if you are perennially in the top 4 (Cornell) because the chance of an upset in the 5-12 series is greater in a one game playoff than a best of three, thus theoretically increasing your chances of getting a weaker opponent in the quarters. Maybe?

I'd say that is offset by the fact the QF hosts will face fresher teams.

RichH

Chris '03
First round for men to be single game starting this year. Quarters still best of three.

Women to expand to 12 teams starting next year.

[ecachockey.com]

I know it’s not a huge deal, and it’s hard to imagine a team altering anything that might have happened because of it, but does it strike anyone else as odd that they announced a post-season format change after the league has already started play in that season?

It’s possible the schools/programs approved this prior to the season and it’s just the league office being typically lackadaisical in their press releases & communications.

I'm waiting for the rules change the night before Lake Placid.

NO SUBSTITUTIONS.
NO PENALTIES.

Trotsky

CU2007

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

I would say it is somewhat of a good thing if you are perennially in the top 4 (Cornell) because the chance of an upset in the 5-12 series is greater in a one game playoff than a best of three, thus theoretically increasing your chances of getting a weaker opponent in the quarters. Maybe?

I'd say that is offset by the fact the QF hosts will face fresher teams.

Yep, fair

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

• Fewer costs: only one night in a hotel
• Less time away from campus (or faster start on spring break if you lose)
• First-round survivors less worn for the quarterfinals
• Less chance of injury
• Better odds the QF hosts (the 1-4 teams) will meet a 9-12 ("anything can happen in a single game" ) not 5-8. Good if we're a 1-4 more often than 5-12.

In the last 5 years, I wonder how often a 9-12 has advanced to the QFs in a best-of-3?

billhoward

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

• Fewer costs: only one night in a hotel
• Less time away from campus (or faster start on spring break if you lose)
• First-round survivors less worn for the quarterfinals
• Less chance of injury
• Better odds the QF hosts (the 1-4 teams) will meet a 9-12 ("anything can happen in a single game" ) not 5-8. Good if we're a 1-4 more often than 5-12.

In the last 5 years, I wonder how often a 9-12 has advanced to the QFs in a best-of-3?

2022: none
2021: no QFs
2020: 11-6 upset
2019: none
2018: 9-8 upset
2017: none
2016: none
2015: 9-8, 10-7 upsets
2014: 10-7
2013: 9-8 upset
2012: 9-8, 10-7 upsets

French Rage
2022: none
2021: no QFs
2020: 11-6 upset
2019: none
2018: 9-8 upset
2017: none
2016: none
2015: 9-8, 10-7 upsets
2014: 10-7
2013: 9-8 upset
2012: 9-8, 10-7 upsets

And the one "upset" in 2013 was the last time Cornell actually had to start off on the road in the first round. I remember that sweep at Princeton and I don't think too many people thought the home team was going to win that series

French Rage

billhoward

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

• Fewer costs: only one night in a hotel
• Less time away from campus (or faster start on spring break if you lose)
• First-round survivors less worn for the quarterfinals
• Less chance of injury
• Better odds the QF hosts (the 1-4 teams) will meet a 9-12 ("anything can happen in a single game" ) not 5-8. Good if we're a 1-4 more often than 5-12.

In the last 5 years, I wonder how often a 9-12 has advanced to the QFs in a best-of-3?

2022: none
2021: no QFs
2020: 11-6 upset
2019: none
2018: 9-8 upset
2017: none
2016: none
2015: 9-8, 10-7 upsets
2014: 10-7
2013: 9-8 upset
2012: 9-8, 10-7 upsets

How many of these would have flipped (including the 8 upsets and the 32 instances of the lower seed winning) if the new rule had been in effect?

marty

French Rage

billhoward

upprdeck
is this really a good thing and why the change?

• Fewer costs: only one night in a hotel
• Less time away from campus (or faster start on spring break if you lose)
• First-round survivors less worn for the quarterfinals
• Less chance of injury
• Better odds the QF hosts (the 1-4 teams) will meet a 9-12 ("anything can happen in a single game" ) not 5-8. Good if we're a 1-4 more often than 5-12.

In the last 5 years, I wonder how often a 9-12 has advanced to the QFs in a best-of-3?

2022: none
2021: no QFs
2020: 11-6 upset
2019: none
2018: 9-8 upset
2017: none
2016: none
2015: 9-8, 10-7 upsets
2014: 10-7
2013: 9-8 upset
2012: 9-8, 10-7 upsets

How many of these would have flipped (including the 8 upsets and the 32 instances of the lower seed winning) if the new rule had been in effect?

2022: 11-6
2021: no QF
2020: 11-6, 10-7
2019: none
2018: 9-8
2017: 10-7
2016: none
2015: 10-7
2014: 12-5
2013: 12-5
2012: 12-5, 10-7, 9-8

"Tournaments don't determine the best team. They determine the champion."

Gives the losing side more to bitch about until the start of the next season.

Gad, there are so many sports cliches. I personally like "You can't coach height."

And we now have the reasoning:

From [www.uscho.com]

ECAC Commish Hagwel
I think it’s fair to say that the men’s coaches wanted to retain the format that’s been in existence for the previous 20 years,” Hagwell said. “There’s no question about that.

“I think the realities are that [cost savings] are the case,” he later explained. “If a North Country team is going to Princeton, for example, for three games and then they come home and win and have to go somewhere else – Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, wherever – versus a one game scenario, I won’t say it’s simple math, but it’s simple math.”

Its simple math for sure.. Its a couple more possible days in a hotel and food for 30+ people x4. Travel cost is the same. You also have to look at the revenue generated since the league gets the playoff money more than the local school does.

just spitball some random numbers, 2K of tickets at say $25 is $5k of income. 30 people is $100 a night for 15 rooms is $1500, food is 30x$100 a day is $3000? so you spent 5k and made 5K..

could be off by thousands I suppose

Maybe deep down the ECAC figures whoever is 5-12 is an also-ran and it doesn't matter which of them the 1-4 teams face. If a 9-12 team makes it through to play a 1-4 in the QFs, that makes it a little easier for the 1-4s to advance. This year, Quinnipiac and Harvard are almost certain to be in Lake Placid the weekend of March 17-18. Probably Cornell. No matter what the first round format.

Still with single-elimination first round games: slightly less chance of injuries that weekend ... how excited are the fans at the 5-8 schools that host round 1? ...

About your numbers: I still don't get how men's ice hockey makes money at all but a few schools. I don't know if women's ice hockey makes money at any school. When we went to Princeton for the women's game and sat at center ice in the Princeton section (with a lot of player parents, relatives -- correction, Cornell parents, Cornell relatives), I wonder if anybody but us paid to attend? Princeton sudents get in free.

But those sweet TV rights.

upprdeck
Its simple math for sure.. Its a couple more possible days in a hotel and food for 30+ people x4. Travel cost is the same. You also have to look at the revenue generated since the league gets the playoff money more than the local school does.

just spitball some random numbers, 2K of tickets at say $25 is $5k of income. 30 people is $100 a night for 15 rooms is $1500, food is 30x$100 a day is $3000? so you spent 5k and made 5K..

could be off by thousands I suppose

You're assuming each school gets 10% of the gate and ECACH takes 80%?

your assuming that i dont know.

David Harding

upprdeck
Its simple math for sure.. Its a couple more possible days in a hotel and food for 30+ people x4. Travel cost is the same. You also have to look at the revenue generated since the league gets the playoff money more than the local school does.

just spitball some random numbers, 2K of tickets at say $25 is $5k of income. 30 people is $100 a night for 15 rooms is $1500, food is 30x$100 a day is $3000? so you spent 5k and made 5K..

could be off by thousands I suppose

You're assuming each school gets 10% of the gate and ECACH takes 80%?

The assumption of 2000 fans at a typical ECAC playoff game is probably off by a factor of a few as well.