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An even ice rink

Posted by osorojo 
An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: March 26, 2022 07:04PM

With 76 seconds left in the hockey game Denver beat Minnesota Duluth 2-1. The Minnesota-Duluth ice rink is 702 feet above sea level; Denver is 5,279 feet above sea level. The Loveland Ice Arena is 4,982 feet above sea level: below Denver. Ice hockey is an oxygen-deficit game. The ice was a perfectly level playing field, but hardly a neutral venue.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: redice (---.stny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 26, 2022 07:38PM

The Big Red were hurt by that situation against Denver in the 1969 NCAA title game.

 
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Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: March 26, 2022 08:28PM

And with Denver beating tUMD, the Frozen Four became 25% less fun.

 
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Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Greenberg '97 (---.nyc.gov)
Date: March 28, 2022 11:20AM

Did you see the GWG in that game? Are you proposing the thin air created the ricochet off the end glass and made it easier for the puck to nearly bounce in off the back of Fanti's leg?

I get the altitude argument, but oxygen had nothing to do with that bit of puck luck.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 28, 2022 11:41AM

The thinner air helped speed up the puck. Perhaps.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 28, 2022 01:01PM

Greenberg '97
Did you see the GWG in that game? Are you proposing the thin air created the ricochet off the end glass and made it easier for the puck to nearly bounce in off the back of Fanti's leg?

I get the altitude argument, but oxygen had nothing to do with that bit of puck luck.
osorojo is saying that Denver's squad is more accustomed to breathing at altitude than UMD. altitude and oxygen-deficit are the same argument.

 
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: March 28, 2022 01:08PM

A hockey player who is not acclimated to a 5,000 foot rise in altitude suffers a degradation of stamina from the first drop of the puck, not just on certain plays or circumstances. It's about as fair as a hockey team with little speed raising their home ice temperature to exactly 32 degrees to slow down the speedy visitors. Don't tell me this slow-ice ploy has not been used, or it hasn't worked as well as mile-high oxygen depravation does.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 28, 2022 02:37PM

Colorado has used the altitude argument to pry away some Olympic training facilities from Lake Placid. It makes sense given there's no (little?) downside training for extended periods at altitude.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 28, 2022 05:06PM

ugarte
altitude and oxygen-deficit are the same argument.
Unless you're George Floyd.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: March 28, 2022 06:26PM

To even things up how about the high-altitude team has to walk on their skates (with no skate guards) over 30 yards of concrete sidewalk before the game - and not sharpen their skates afterward? That should level-up the playing field (ice).
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.44.98.30.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
Date: March 28, 2022 10:18PM

osorojo
To even things up how about the high-altitude team has to walk on their skates (with no skate guards) over 30 yards of concrete sidewalk before the game - and not sharpen their skates afterward? That should level-up the playing field (ice).

Make them use figure skates.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: nshapiro (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 29, 2022 07:17AM

Trotsky
ugarte
altitude and oxygen-deficit are the same argument.
Unless you're George Floyd.
Unless he was high [www.foxnews.com]
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Greenberg '97 (161.185.160.---)
Date: March 29, 2022 09:20AM

Greenberg '97
I get the altitude argument, but oxygen had nothing to do with that bit of puck luck.

ugarte
altitude and oxygen-deficit are the same argument.

Yes, I know. I was using the old journalism trick of trying to restate without repeating.

Anyway, if Denver was clearly the stronger team in the closing minutes of the game, or if they outlasted UMD into the third overtime, you'd have a case. But not with the way that game was won.

Looks like Fanti is going to be just fine.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 29, 2022 05:40PM

nshapiro
Trotsky
ugarte
altitude and oxygen-deficit are the same argument.
Unless you're George Floyd.
Unless he was high [www.foxnews.com]
IATLO.

Sic semper proditoribus
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: March 30, 2022 09:03AM

I wonder how coaches and players [versus casual fans] feel about real or imagined claims of high-altitude rinks being an advantage for home teams playing opponents fresh from the lowlands?
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 30, 2022 04:22PM

The athletes don't have to search hard or long to see the impact of performance. You'd think they'd notice it as soon as they lace on skates, sneakers or cross-country ski boots. A non-athlete (me) can feel winded climbing a flight or two of stairs. One resource says, above 1,500M / 4900 ft, performance falls by 10% per 1,000M/3300ft. [blog.mapmyrun.com]
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: April 01, 2022 11:32AM

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"General consensus is that athletes should arrive at moderate altitude AT LEAST TWO WEEKS before a given event."
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: ice (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 02, 2022 12:57AM

osorojo
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"General consensus is that athletes should arrive at moderate altitude AT LEAST TWO WEEKS before a given event."

Alternatively, athletes could train at their home rink with some type of mask on that reduced the availability of oxygen. For student athletes, this would be much more practical.

The partial pressure of oxygen in Denver is ~135 mmHg, which is ~15% lower than it is at sea level (160 mmHg).
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Robb (---.lightspeed.dybhfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 02, 2022 01:29AM

ice
osorojo
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"General consensus is that athletes should arrive at moderate altitude AT LEAST TWO WEEKS before a given event."

Alternatively, athletes could train at their home rink with some type of mask on that reduced the availability of oxygen. For student athletes, this would be much more practical.

The partial pressure of oxygen in Denver is ~135 mmHg, which is ~15% lower than it is at sea level (160 mmHg).
No, that doesn’t work at all. Your body needs to be in the reduced density atmosphere 24/7 so its metabolism can adjust. Restricting oxygen just during workouts is not at all the same thing.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: ice (---.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 02, 2022 03:53AM

Robb
ice
osorojo
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"General consensus is that athletes should arrive at moderate altitude AT LEAST TWO WEEKS before a given event."

Alternatively, athletes could train at their home rink with some type of mask on that reduced the availability of oxygen. For student athletes, this would be much more practical.

The partial pressure of oxygen in Denver is ~135 mmHg, which is ~15% lower than it is at sea level (160 mmHg).
No, that doesn’t work at all. Your body needs to be in the reduced density atmosphere 24/7 so its metabolism can adjust. Restricting oxygen just during workouts is not at all the same thing.

Well, I based my comment on information from an exercise physiology text book (Powers and Howley), which attributes much of the adaptation to hypoxia-induced increases in hematocrit (red blood cells). Hematocrit increases by ~5% for people who move from sea level to altitudes of ~5,000 feet. For altitude changes of ~15,000 feet, hematocrit increases by ~33%.

Just now though, I have also read that there are acute pressure effects on the brain. Sea-level dwellers who travel to high altitudes can experience cerebral edema and consequently headache. It was unclear to me whether or not this would be important at 5,000 feet.

Here is a reference: [www.sciencedirect.com]
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: osorojo (97.104.222.---)
Date: April 02, 2022 02:02PM

I don't think you can train an athletes for a sudden four or five thousand foot increase in altitude by holding their breath at sea level.
 
Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: April 02, 2022 05:39PM

ice
Robb
ice
osorojo
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"General consensus is that athletes should arrive at moderate altitude AT LEAST TWO WEEKS before a given event."

Alternatively, athletes could train at their home rink with some type of mask on that reduced the availability of oxygen. For student athletes, this would be much more practical.

The partial pressure of oxygen in Denver is ~135 mmHg, which is ~15% lower than it is at sea level (160 mmHg).
No, that doesn’t work at all. Your body needs to be in the reduced density atmosphere 24/7 so its metabolism can adjust. Restricting oxygen just during workouts is not at all the same thing.

Well, I based my comment on information from an exercise physiology text book (Powers and Howley), which attributes much of the adaptation to hypoxia-induced increases in hematocrit (red blood cells). Hematocrit increases by ~5% for people who move from sea level to altitudes of ~5,000 feet. For altitude changes of ~15,000 feet, hematocrit increases by ~33%.

Just now though, I have also read that there are acute pressure effects on the brain. Sea-level dwellers who travel to high altitudes can experience cerebral edema and consequently headache. It was unclear to me whether or not this would be important at 5,000 feet.

Here is a reference: [www.sciencedirect.com]

The point is that you can't just reduce O2 during exercise. To really adapt you're doing it 24 hours/day.

 
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Re: An even ice rink
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: April 03, 2022 02:40AM

Ned Harkness solved the problem in 1954 when the tourney was in Colorado Springs by getting oxygen tanks for his players to use. The problem was the tanks were empty.
 

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