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Lake Placid roll call

Posted by Greenberg '97 
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Current Page: 2 of 2
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 25, 2022 12:10PM

billhoward
upprdeck
as many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Sometimes when I think about admissions rates, selectivity, and yields, I'm never sure if cause and effect get confused.

This is my take on the historical trend:
-- Smart boomers & early early millennials, 1-1/2 to 2 generations ago, apply to ~6 schools: 2 Ivy-class, 2 good, 2 safety. Paper documentation is a pain to do even a half-dozen, and the guidance counselor counsels against making more work for him or her.
-- Computers happen, easy to apply to more schools, applications jump to 10? 12? for smart students or students with nervous parents
-- Good schools admit smaller fraction of applicants knowing higher fraction of admits who were reach-applicants will accept the best school they get in to
-- Yield becomes a better measure of selectivity
-- Some good schools may deny admission to overqualified admit suspecting they won't attend, so even the yield number can be tinkered with.

US News says 2020 admit rates for the eight Ivies was 7.6%. For all other national universities it was 68.3%, nine times as much. Early admissions applicants are admitted at an 18.1% rate vs. 55.1% for non-Ivy nationals. For most but not all Ivies, an early decision acceptance is bindjng, so there's no loss to other schools.

What happens at Cornell has a big impact on Ivy League admits because Cornell educates a quarter of the 15,000 students entering the Ivies each year and that will go up a bit higher when all the new North Campus dorms come online.

There are only two dozen schools that have a yield of 50% or better. Harvard is at 82% and Cornell is at 60%; the other Ivies are in between. A number of high-yield schools are religious and Gallaudet is for deaf and hearing-impaired. They are many, many more schools with yields of 10% or less. Quinnipiac is at 11%.

Harvard University (MA), 82%
Stanford University (CA), 82%
Brigham Young University—Provo (UT), 81%
University of Chicago, 81%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77%
Harding University (AR), 71%
Princeton University (NJ), 70%
University of Pennsylvania, 70%
Yale University (CT), 69%
Dartmouth College (NH), 64%
Gallaudet University (DC), 63%
Columbia University (NY), 62%
Brown University (RI), 61%
Keiser University (FL), 61%
Yeshiva University (NY), 61%
Cornell University (NY), 60%
University of Notre Dame (IN), 58%
Georgia Southern University, 56%
University of Texas—Rio Grande Valley, 56%
Kennesaw State University (GA), 55%
Northwestern University (IL), 55%
Duke University (NC), 54%
William Carey University (MS), 50%

For me Northwestern juiced their yield by not admitting me because they figured I would attend (the) University of Illinois with a tuition of less than $1500 vs. Northwestern who was charging near $10,000 in 1977.

I called asking about my admittance when my Illinois application was lost at (the) University of Missouri. They asked me point blank if I wasn't planning to go to U of I and to call back if I didn't go there.

NW never admitted nor rejected me as far as I can remember.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 25, 2022 12:14PM

ugarte
marty
billhoward
marty
If Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.

I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.

If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.

It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.

But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 12:52PM

marty
But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
My bad. I was speaking of Kodak and probably Xerox people already with undergrad engineering or science degrees going for grad-level science, leadership or MBA work. No effect on undergrad stats. Some relatives benefitted greatly from those programs and so did Kodak. Apparently RIT did not offer courses on Designing Practical Consumer Applications for the Kodak-Invented 1975 CMOS-Sensor Digital Camera.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: George64 (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 01:52PM


Apparently RIT did not offer courses on Designing Practical Consumer Applications for the Kodak-Invented 1975 CMOS-Sensor Digital Camera.

Even before digital photography, Kodak took a hit when film processing was unbundled from film purchase and third-party processors entered the market, and when Fuji and others began capturing market share. I’m of the age where I read D&C obits and am amazed how many of those folks had worked for Kodak. Simon and Garfunkel’s Kodachrome probably doesn’t resonate at all with today’s students or even with some younger eLynah posters.
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2022 02:00PM by George64.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: March 25, 2022 02:06PM

billhoward
No question RIT is a pretty good school. Maybe RIT joining ECAC will raise its profile with recruits. Atlantic Hockey where RIT resides now has 10 schools and other than Army and Air Force, the only other school you think as a name sports school is Holy Cross. RIT has 17,000 undergraduate students; the others have 1,700 (AIC) to 4,400 (Army, Air Force). Academically, RIT is at 117 in the US News Top National Universities, Clarkson is 127, RPI is 55, Quinnipiac is 148. St. Lawrence is ranked among Liberal Arts schools, #57, where Union is #50. So RIT's entree would not water down the league, if that is a quote concern.

Atlantic Hockey is Air Force, AIC, Army, Bentley, Canisius, Holy Cross, Mercyhurst, Niagara, RIT, Sacred Heart. Used to include Iona, Fairfield and Robert Morris, all dropped hockey; Quinnipiac to ECAC 2005, UConn to Hockey East 2014.

RIT already plays its other (D3) sports in the Liberty League with Clarkson, SLU, RPI and Union (plus Hobart & William Smith, U of R, Bard, Vassar and Skidmore).

 
___________________________
JTW

Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: ugarte (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 03:30PM

marty
ugarte
marty
billhoward
marty
If Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.

I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.

If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.

It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.

But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible

 
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 25, 2022 04:17PM

ugarte
marty
ugarte
marty
billhoward
marty
If Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.

I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.

If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.

It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.

But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible

I think the engineering school is likely more competitive and selective than the rest of the school but I have no evidence. No matter as RIT is a better fit than Q in the ECAC.

Can Q move to the AHL?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2022 04:18PM by marty.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: BearLover (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 04:26PM

marty
ugarte
marty
ugarte
marty
billhoward
marty
If Kodak were in the mix wouldn't it be less selective. How many Kodak engineers would be rejected?
George Eastman's money the U of R one of the best endowed schools in America, per capita, for much of the 20th century. It also spent R&D funds at RIT and Rochester and sent a lot of Kodak staff to RIT for grad degrees. The funding let RIT hire better profs, buy more equipment, make it a more desirable school. Now, pretty much no more Kodak: 80,000 down to ~6,000.

I'm just saying statistically if 99% of the Kodak folks get in the program that would mean it was less selective overall. Not arguing about the quality of the students or the program, just the silly statistic.

If the engineering school is more selective, which I'm guessing it still is, the current overall selectivity number might not reflect what many of us think of as RIT.

It's no Q.
only true if kodak isn't a destination company recruiting top candidates to work for it that it then sends to the local school. i would argue that for a long time kodak was one of those companies.

But I'm not talking about whether it truly is a selective school. I was only talking about the paradox that a 100% admission rate for Kodak folks would make their selectivity statistic worse, not better.
well, fine, but that's a definition of selectivity only relevant to people reading USNWR like it's the bible

No matter as RIT is a better fit than Q in the ECAC.
Why? I don’t understand this concept.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 04:31PM

marty
Can Q move to the AHL?

Q is destined for HE. It's just a matter of time. Then we'll pick up RIT or Holy Cross or Army will take another run at it.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: March 25, 2022 06:43PM

Rit Getting scholies will help their hockey profile i suspect
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.44.98.30.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
Date: March 25, 2022 06:50PM

billhoward
upprdeck
as many of the ivy kids apply to several of the schools its not really selective anyway.. if 50K apply to the same 5 schools and they all take 10K it looks like each school only accepts 20% of applicants.. but is that really reflective of what happened.
Sometimes when I think about admissions rates, selectivity, and yields, I'm never sure if cause and effect get confused.

This is my take on the historical trend:
-- Smart boomers & early early millennials, 1-1/2 to 2 generations ago, apply to ~6 schools: 2 Ivy-class, 2 good, 2 safety. Paper documentation is a pain to do even a half-dozen, and the guidance counselor counsels against making more work for him or her.
-- Computers happen, easy to apply to more schools, applications jump to 10? 12? for smart students or students with nervous parents
-- Good schools admit smaller fraction of applicants knowing higher fraction of admits who were reach-applicants will accept the best school they get in to
-- Yield becomes a better measure of selectivity
-- Some good schools may deny admission to overqualified admit suspecting they won't attend, so even the yield number can be tinkered with.

US News says 2020 admit rates for the eight Ivies was 7.6%. For all other national universities it was 68.3%, nine times as much. Early admissions applicants are admitted at an 18.1% rate vs. 55.1% for non-Ivy nationals. For most but not all Ivies, an early decision acceptance is bindjng, so there's no loss to other schools.

What happens at Cornell has a big impact on Ivy League admits because Cornell educates a quarter of the 15,000 students entering the Ivies each year and that will go up a bit higher when all the new North Campus dorms come online.

There are only two dozen schools that have a yield of 50% or better. Harvard is at 82% and Cornell is at 60%; the other Ivies are in between. A number of high-yield schools are religious and Gallaudet is for deaf and hearing-impaired. They are many, many more schools with yields of 10% or less. Quinnipiac is at 11%.

Harvard University (MA), 82%
Stanford University (CA), 82%
Brigham Young University—Provo (UT), 81%
University of Chicago, 81%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 77%
Harding University (AR), 71%
Princeton University (NJ), 70%
University of Pennsylvania, 70%
Yale University (CT), 69%
Dartmouth College (NH), 64%
Gallaudet University (DC), 63%
Columbia University (NY), 62%
Brown University (RI), 61%
Keiser University (FL), 61%
Yeshiva University (NY), 61%
Cornell University (NY), 60%
University of Notre Dame (IN), 58%
Georgia Southern University, 56%
University of Texas—Rio Grande Valley, 56%
Kennesaw State University (GA), 55%
Northwestern University (IL), 55%
Duke University (NC), 54%
William Carey University (MS), 50%

What does "yield" mean? Percent of accepted applications that actually enroll?

And just for the record, this Boomer/Gen-Xer applied to 7 schools: 4 Ivies (Cornell, Penn, Harvard, Yale), 2 good schools (Tufts, Lehigh), and one safety (Penn State). I got into all but Harvard and Yale...but I applied to them simply to reject them. I had no intent of going to either.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 25, 2022 08:20PM

Trotsky
marty
Can Q move to the AHL?

Q is destined for HE. It's just a matter of time. Then we'll pick up RIT or Holy Cross or Army will take another run at it.

The other AHL. American not Atlantic.
 
Re: Lake Placid roll call
Posted by: billhoward (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 26, 2022 11:54AM

Jeff Hopkins '82
What does "yield" mean? Percent of accepted applications that actually enroll?
Exactly that. I don't know how early decision candidates are treated; I assume they count as part of the yield because they do attend. Maybe there's another stat — yield excerpting early-admits.
 
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