Schafer's salary

UConn just broke ground on a fancy new on-campus hockey rink, and also gave its coach a new contract. As reported in the Connecticut Post: "Hockey coach Mike Cavanaugh also received a contract extension that began in April, 2021, and runs through April, 2026, with a starting salary of $360,000, which will increase each season for a total package of $1.9 million, plus performance incentives and a retention bonus of $150,000 that will be paid on April 1, 2026 if he is still the UConn coach."
That made me wonder how his salary compares to Schafer's. Schafer has been coaching much longer and has a much better record than Cavanaugh, but large public universities like UConn also can afford to pay their coaches more money than private schools. However, Ivy schools aren't exactly poor. I'm assuming Schafer is getting compensated fairly compared to other coaches in the country. But since Cornell isn't required to release that information, all we can do is speculate.

The same Uconn that is trying to keep the fball program afloat is spending money on a hockey program like this?

dbilmes
UConn just broke ground on a fancy new on-campus hockey rink, and also gave its coach a new contract. As reported in the Connecticut Post: "Hockey coach Mike Cavanaugh also received a contract extension that began in April, 2021, and runs through April, 2026, with a starting salary of $360,000, which will increase each season for a total package of $1.9 million, plus performance incentives and a retention bonus of $150,000 that will be paid on April 1, 2026 if he is still the UConn coach."
That made me wonder how his salary compares to Schafer's. Schafer has been coaching much longer and has a much better record than Cavanaugh, but large public universities like UConn also can afford to pay their coaches more money than private schools. However, Ivy schools aren't exactly poor. I'm assuming Schafer is getting compensated fairly compared to other coaches in the country. But since Cornell isn't required to release that information, all we can do is speculate.

Interesting speculation from 2009 (and yes, I noticed):

[bilmes.blogspot.com]

Schafer has talked, at least jokingly, about wanting to live in a warm weather state in retirement, this at the Las Vegas tournament 2 years that was to be followed the next year by one in Arizona, and he noted these trips at least in theory gave the Schafers a chance to see what they thought of the Southwest.

His salary comes down to:
* We don't know
* It has to be competitive at least not insulting. Ned Harkness was making, what, $14,000 when he jumped ship from RPI for Cornell. although that's $120,000 in today's dollars. Or was it $7,000 he was making?
* Ithaca cost of living is low, quality of life is high
* Wall Street Friends of Cornell Hockey may have helped with investment advice and they can say (sorry, this is mean), "Look how you're doing compared to the Cornell Endowment Fund." (See recent NYT obit on David Swensen who ran Yale's endowment from $1.3B mid 1980s to $30+B now, passing Princeton and Texas but not yet Harvard. [www.nytimes.com])
* Schafer is in his late 50s so Cornell may sense he's not going to strike out for someplace else. But suppose Arizona State wants someone?
* His salary may be linked to basketball in this way: basketball matters more in somebody's mind and/but they can't pay Brian Earl (who still seems like a coach destined for greater things) more than the hockey coach who represents the glory that is Cornell sports. Well, wrestling, women's hockey and lax count, too.
* I used to have a lot of curiosity about this, less today, and now it is what it is.

I hope the Connecticut taxpayers who fund this splendid coaching position get their money's worth in state taxes on hockey tickets.

billhoward

* It has to be competitive at least not insulting. Ned Harkness was making, what, $14,000 when he jumped ship from RPI for Cornell. although that's $120,000 in today's dollars. Or was it $7,000 he was making?

Are those figures supposed to be what he was making at RPI or what he received at his start at Cornell?

Not directly hockey related, but Rob Koll just left after spending 32 years building Cornell's wrestling program into a national power, leaving for Stanford. Cannot help but think the Ivy League's inaction over the past year helped guide his decision. Wonder if there will be others...

mas1969
Not directly hockey related, but Rob Koll just left after spending 32 years building Cornell's wrestling program into a national power, leaving for Stanford. Cannot help but think the Ivy League's inaction over the past year helped guide his decision. Wonder if there will be others...

See the already existing discussion in the "Wrestling 2020-21" thread of the "Other Sports" section.

mas1969
the Ivy League's inaction over the past year

#misinformation

The Ivies took action and protected their students. The factory programs did not take action and bowed to pressure to allow a dangerous situation.

That's right every Non-Ivy must be incorrect at all thigs...and also a "factory". Only the Ivy League can make no mistakes (forget undeclared foreign donations).

#sanctimonious

Not having kids remain goal focused, committed, and tested in a relatively controlled environment was certainly also "protecting" them. The kids actually playing likely had a lower positive rate.

Noneya Business
That's right every Non-Ivy must be incorrect at all thigs...and also a "factory". Only the Ivy League can make no mistakes (forget undeclared foreign donations).

#sanctimonious

Not having kids remain goal focused, committed, and tested in a relatively controlled environment was certainly also "protecting" them. The kids actually playing likely had a lower positive rate.

As much as I missed hockey, I have to say that it seems the U did put their priorities in the correct order. They got thru a year with students on campus and very little problems.

Currently they list 15k students and 9k faculty/staff have been vaccinated, or 83% of on campus population. By any stretch those are wonderful numbers.

Adding one other number, the COVID test positivity rate for last week was 0.04%. Think about that, 0.04%, incredible!

If you want to be safe, move to Ithaca and/or go to school at CU.

This past year will likely lead to a couple of tough seasons, but I still think they did the right thing.

And they proved, as have other countries, that if you did the right things, this virus would have been containable.

as it turned out the Ivies could probably played and gotten thru the season like all the bigger schools did.. many got thru it and did have issues and few became serious. However the assumption that it would go that way was not a given..it could have gone very badly and given the ivies dont make a ton of money on it anyway not playing was not a huge hit to the budgets like it was for the P5 and other leagues had they not played.

mas1969
Not directly hockey related, but Rob Koll just left after spending 32 years building Cornell's wrestling program into a national power, leaving for Stanford. Cannot help but think the Ivy League's inaction over the past year helped guide his decision. Wonder if there will be others...

Stanford which rescinded the cuts in men's and women's varsity sports. Stanford apparently underestimated the desire of fans and alumni to see a strong sports program.
[www.washingtonpost.com]

WaPost
The school intended to cut 11 sports: men’s volleyball, wrestling, field hockey, men’s and women’s fencing, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash and synchronized swimming. Stanford has won the Directors’ Cup, given to the top athletic department in Division I, for 25 straight years. Those 11 sports have produced 20 national championships and 27 Olympic medals.

billhoward

mas1969
Not directly hockey related, but Rob Koll just left after spending 32 years building Cornell's wrestling program into a national power, leaving for Stanford. Cannot help but think the Ivy League's inaction over the past year helped guide his decision. Wonder if there will be others...

Stanford which rescinded the cuts in men's and women's varsity sports. Stanford apparently underestimated the desire of fans and alumni to see a strong sports program.
[www.washingtonpost.com]

WaPost
The school intended to cut 11 sports: men’s volleyball, wrestling, field hockey, men’s and women’s fencing, lightweight rowing, men’s rowing, co-ed and women’s sailing, squash and synchronized swimming. Stanford has won the Directors’ Cup, given to the top athletic department in Division I, for 25 straight years. Those 11 sports have produced 20 national championships and 27 Olympic medals.

This is great for Stanford athletics, and I'm very happy for their athletes. However, I've seen Stanford athletes act very obnoxiously.

And, as I've said elsewhere, I'm sick and tired of Cornell being a stepping stone/feeder for other schools. Stanford in particular has been feeding on Cornell for over 130 years!

Stanford also has up and coming lacrosse and hockey teams. Although they're still club teams, look at their web sites. These are programs with varsity aspirations. At some point, climate and money can move even coaches who are Cornell alums.

Swampy
And, as I've said elsewhere, I'm sick and tired of Cornell being a stepping stone/feeder for other schools.

You really have to stop thinking of Koll using Cornell as a stepping stone. It's unhealthy. He *made* the Cornell program a modern powerhouse. He was here as head coach for almost 30 years. If you read between the lines on Koll's departure, or put any stock in the rumor mill, Koll was looking for a way out and Stanford was a fortuitous opening.

Among the reasons given: he wasn't pleased with the way the ivies didn't return to competition when most of the country did, the possible 2022 retirement of andy noel, a wrestler himself and a close friend of Koll's, the weather in Palo Alto and the opportunity to build Stanford the way he built Cornell. In an interview with Flo he said that the salary rumors are ridiculous and he'd have made more money if he stayed (don't know if it's true but it's what he said.)

There are also rumors he was facing potential reprimand for coordinating unsanctioned team workouts (no idea if this one is true). Willie Saylor, formerly of Flo, reported that if Stanford didn't come through he was planning to return to his alma mater in Chapel Hill and run their Olympic Regional Training Center.

We ended up with a great, young coach that our best wrestlers love and respect. I hope Mike Grey can maintain the program. I am not worried that we will get poached by Stanford.

Swampy
Stanford in particular has been feeding on Cornell for over 130 years!

My ears are burning. Do go on!

Maybe I’m just drawing a blank right now, but other than men’s lacrosse which recent head coaches have used Cornell as a steppingstone? The only other one I can think of is Donohue, but he was never going to stick around for the long run. (And at this point he’s not even that recent.)

Weder
Maybe I’m just drawing a blank right now, but other than men’s lacrosse which recent head coaches have used Cornell as a steppingstone? The only other one I can think of is Donohue, but he was never going to stick around for the long run. (And at this point he’s not even that recent.)

Harkness

Swampy
I'm sick and tired of Cornell being a stepping stone/feeder for other schools. Stanford in particular has been feeding on Cornell for over 130 years!

Stanford's old trick was to just hire away Harvard's faculty, Citizen Kane-style.





In fact Stanford's decline in liberal arts is directly traceable to Harvard's decline. They just weren't poaching interesting people anymore.

Cornell as whole across the campus has done a good job of bringing talented people in.. Then they have done a horrible job of retaining them in many key areas.

I would be interested in a comparison between the number of college graduates on NHL rosters today versus that statistic in past decades, but I'm too lazy/ignorant to find that information.

osorojo
I would be interested in a comparison between the number of college graduates on NHL rosters today versus that statistic in past decades, but I'm too lazy/ignorant to find that information.

It consistently climbed from the 70s through the 00s, I want to say from less than 5% to up around 35%. I don't know about since.

Not grads, though. Many/most screwed off early and didn't graduate.

upprdeck
Cornell as whole across the campus has done a good job of bringing talented people in.. Then they have done a horrible job of retaining them in many key areas.

The world continues to become more urban. Only Dartmouth among the Ivies is more rural. Cornell has to find jobs for the trailing spouses. The opportunities for work fall off after Cornell, Ithaca College (big layoffs this year), Tompkins Financial, Cayuga Medical Center. There are startups but this is not quite Silicon Valley.

Some faculty will like the lifestyle or learn to like it. We're always going to lose some faculty to Harvard or Stanford.

billhoward

upprdeck
Cornell as whole across the campus has done a good job of bringing talented people in.. Then they have done a horrible job of retaining them in many key areas.

The world continues to become more urban. Only Dartmouth among the Ivies is more rural. Cornell has to find jobs for the trailing spouses. The opportunities for work fall off after Cornell, Ithaca College (big layoffs this year), Tompkins Financial, Cayuga Medical Center. There are startups but this is not quite Silicon Valley.

Some faculty will like the lifestyle or learn to like it. We're always going to lose some faculty to Harvard or Stanford.

I was talking about this with friends when I was in Ithaca a few weeks ago -- the trailing spouse issue might become less of a factor with the shift to more remote work. One friend who is a Cornell employee (non-academic faculty) said he's already been told that his job is now 100% remote.

Remote work might also go a long way towards reversing urbanization. Younger people will always be attracted to cities, but quality of life against population density is a normal distribution.

Trotsky
Remote work might also go a long way towards reversing urbanization. Younger people will always be attracted to cities, but quality of life against population density is a normal distribution.

The megacity (10M plus population) is the future of much of the world, especially Asia and parts of Africa. 55% of the world population is in cities (all sizes) today, 67% by 2050. By end of this decade, Delhi supplants Tokyo as world's biggest city and India becomes the most populous country despite being just one time zone. Americans may not notice the megacity trend because in the Western Hemisphere right now it's Sao Paulo, Mexico City, NYC-Newark, Rio de Janeiro, LA-Long Beach; rest of world has another 30.

Little bit of thread drift, here. Sorry, Coach.

billhoward

Trotsky
Remote work might also go a long way towards reversing urbanization. Younger people will always be attracted to cities, but quality of life against population density is a normal distribution.

The megacity (10M plus population) is the future of much of the world, especially Asia and parts of Africa. 55% of the world population is in cities (all sizes) today, 67% by 2050. By end of this decade, Delhi supplants Tokyo as world's biggest city and India becomes the most populous country despite being just one time zone.

And by 2050 I'll surely get that 0% interest rate that my friends in Kolkata have promised me.

Cities first formed to expedite communication and the distribution of information and goods. Technology has eroded the benefits of cities.

billhoward

Trotsky
Remote work might also go a long way towards reversing urbanization. Younger people will always be attracted to cities, but quality of life against population density is a normal distribution.

The megacity (10M plus population) is the future of much of the world

osorojo
Cities first formed to expedite communication and the distribution of information and goods. Technology has eroded the benefits of cities.

Single and 30? Try meeting somebody this weekend when you've taken your WFH life on the road to Malone, NY.

billhoward

osorojo
Cities first formed to expedite communication and the distribution of information and goods. Technology has eroded the benefits of cities.

Single and 30? Try meeting somebody this weekend when you've taken your WFH life on the road to Malone, NY.

I mean, rural people do it all the time.

Today information travels at the speed of light from desk to desk,floor to floor, and from city to city/state/country. The necessity to huddle-up to exchange information is much reduced. The diaspora of office workers goes on before your eyes. Check location of newly constructed business headquarters.

osorojo
Cities first formed to expedite communication and the distribution of information and goods. Technology has eroded the benefits of cities.

Well, Uruk -- arguably the first city -- was a center of power, where the King-Priest resided. Its generic features were religious and military. Caral, in Peru, also seems to have served primarily religious, political, or even cultural roles.*

Don't presume modernist or capitalist imperatives were at work in the ancient world.

*Caral has an amphitheater with excellent acoustics for hearing flute music. Many people point to Caral's inland location and the archeological findings of seafood as a staple in Caral residents' diet as evidence of "trade" or "commerce." But one can imagine all sorts of non-exchange relations that brought food from the ocean inland or cotton from the Andean foothills to communities on the Pacific shore.

Unfortunately, until we have time machines, we may never be able to tell what social relations were the basis for diets involving long-distance movement of foodstuffs.

billhoward

By end of this decade, Delhi supplants Tokyo as world's biggest city and India becomes the most populous country despite being just one time zone.

The current most populous country is just one time zone.

The population of NYC has decreased over the past four years. The population of Chicago and Los Angeles have flat-lined over the same time period. Could be a quirk, more likely economics and advances in communication.

osorojo
The population of NYC has decreased over the past four years. The population of Chicago and Los Angeles have flat-lined over the same time period. Could be a quirk, more likely economics and advances in communication.

I'm thinking of longer term trends, say 2000 to 2050, worldwide not just US. Yes, comms are better now outside urban areas. But you may want to be in a more developed area if you want to find a spouse/partner, or there's a job opportunity for your spouse/partner if you move for a different job, or get better schooling for your kids, or a hospital that knows how to treat a heart attack. A number of companies are rethinking the idea of everyone who wants to can work from home.

Uh, you forgot "suburban" and "small-city/town" growth. Face it. The economic reasons for big cities continue to collapse. It's about money and communication. Big cities are more expensive to live in, information travels to and from everywhere at the seed of light, and pretty much everywhere has a much friendlier cost of living than large cities have.

osorojo
Uh, you forgot "suburban" and "small-city/town" growth. Face it. The economic reasons for big cities continue to collapse. It's about money and communication. Big cities are more expensive to live in, information travels to and from everywhere at the seed of light, and pretty much everywhere has a much friendlier cost of living than large cities have.

The Census Bureau definition of "urban" includes basically any place with a traffic signal. And most of the fastest-growing parts of the country are areas with populations well into six figures.

census.gov
The Bureau of the Census defines urban as comprising all territory, population, and housing units located in urbanized areas and in places of 2,500 or more inhabitants outside of UAs. The term urban refers to both kinds
of geographic entities. The terms urban, urbanized area, and rural are the Census Bureau’s definitions; other Federal agencies, State agencies, local officials, and private groups may use these same terms to identify areas
based on different criteria.

[www2.census.gov]

thread drift?

dag14
thread drift?

That ship sailed 2 screenfuls ago. I was trying to see how far the thread could drift (I helped that, a lot) and then bring it back. Like an audience participation movie where the emcee stops it, the audience chooses one of two directions, but each path takes the film back to the same place for another branch.

dag14
thread drift?

Yup, but it’s one of the things I like about eLynah. I don’t think that there’s another sports site with such interesting sidebars.

95+% of new hockey rinks are being built in suburbs and "small" towns, not old-time mega cities.

osorojo
95+% of new hockey rinks are being built in suburbs and "small" towns, not old-time mega cities.

2 minute minor infraction for negative thread drift.

O.K. - Back to the subject. When you compare cost of/quality of living in Ithaca to the cost/quality of living in a mega-metropolitan city (or commuting to/from) it many reasonable people - including hockey coaches - would choose a hip/hick town such as Ithaca for its quality of life.

dag14
thread drift?

From "Schafer's salary"? Good.

Title IX is 50 years old now. You'd think someone would care about how Doug Derraugh is doing fiscally. That's barely thread drift at all.

Wonder if Derraugh is thinking about Gary Gait jumping from HC of Women's to men's lacrosse at Syracuse.

billhoward
Title IX is 50 years old now. You'd think someone would care about how Doug Derraugh is doing fiscally. That's barely thread drift at all.

Wonder if Derraugh is thinking about Gary Gait jumping from HC of Women's to men's lacrosse at Syracuse.

Doug is the Everett Family Head Coach and his wife, Louise, is the Director of Hockey Operations, so the family package probably isn’t too bad. When Lax coach Tambroni left for Penn State, one of the reasons cited was his wife got a coaching position as well.

George64

billhoward
Title IX is 50 years old now. You'd think someone would care about how Doug Derraugh is doing fiscally. That's barely thread drift at all.

Wonder if Derraugh is thinking about Gary Gait jumping from HC of Women's to men's lacrosse at Syracuse.

Doug is the Everett Family Head Coach and his wife, Louise, is the Director of Hockey Operations, so the family package probably isn’t too bad. When Lax coach Tambroni left for Penn State, one of the reasons cited was his wife got a coaching position as well.

As per the Fanlax Forum, Tambroni's wife did not get a coaching gig at PSU.

scoop85

George64

Doug is the Everett Family Head Coach and his wife, Louise, is the Director of Hockey Operations, so the family package probably isn’t too bad. When Lax coach Tambroni left for Penn State, one of the reasons cited was his wife got a coaching position as well.

As per the Fanlax Forum, Tambroni's wife did not get a coaching gig at PSU.

I stand corrected. She’s a PSU alumna and was the Field Hockey coach at Cornell where she met Jeff. She now considers herself a part-time coach and full-time Mom.