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Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season

Posted by Trotsky 
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Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 29, 2020 07:02PM

Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 29, 2020 08:16PM

scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

 
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: DL (---.nrflva.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 29, 2020 10:05PM

If the simulation were to be replayed, we probably would've had a 2 goal first period, followed by a BC goal off a high stick in the second. Then we'd have battled back to get a disallowed goal, three crossbars, and a whiff on an empty net. BC pots an easy one on a cherry picked breakaway, then we go to two overtimes and BC still would have taken it all on a puck bounced in off a skate that was reviewed and deemed good.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: March 30, 2020 04:47AM

Jim Hyla
scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

Sounds like somebody needs to get a sense of perspective. And possibly also a lesson on Poisson statistics.

 
___________________________
JTW

Enjoy the latest hockey geek tools at [www.elynah.com]
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 06:32AM

It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 30, 2020 08:02AM

ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Ralph, could you please give us a link? I can't find it on YouTube nor RPITV.org.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 08:11AM

marty
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Ralph, could you please give us a link? I can't find it on YouTube nor RPITV.org.

Sorry. Pickett is a BU fan. Most of his videos thus pertain to BU, but I am sure you remember that the ECAC still used the Boston Garden for several years after the great divorce. The thread is here. The direct link to his uploaded files is here. There is a second Cornell game from a year later, also a loss. Both videos are near the beginning.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 30, 2020 08:22AM

ursusminor
marty
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Ralph, could you please give us a link? I can't find it on YouTube nor RPITV.org.

Sorry. Pickett is a BU fan. Most of his videos thus pertain to BU, but I am sure you remember that the ECAC still used the Boston Garden for several years after the great divorce. The thread is here. The direct link to his uploaded files is here. There is a second Cornell game from a year later, also a loss. Both videos are near the beginning.

Thanks! In 1996 and 1997 I went to Walmart and changed the station on the feed to their display TVs to see the ECAC tournament. But I don't think that option was available in 1990.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Beeeej (Moderator)
Date: March 30, 2020 08:45AM

ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.

 
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.

"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 08:50AM by Beeeej.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ugarte (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 30, 2020 09:33AM

Beeeej
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.
I remember feeling like the only person in the building who heard the quick whistle before Trent Andison put back a loose rebound.

 
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Trotsky (---.dc.dc.cox.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 10:27AM

Beeeej
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.
Lemon had also been on a tear that season scoring a goal in something like 10 or 11 straight games.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: redice (---.stny.res.rr.com)
Date: March 30, 2020 11:44AM

Beeeej
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.

If I recall correctly, had Ross scored, it was going to be some weird numerical anomaly where it would have been his 23rd goal, his 23rd birthday, and on the 23rd of March... I'm not sure if I have all of that right...(The 23rd of March doesn't sound right for the ECAC tourney).
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Beeeej (Moderator)
Date: March 30, 2020 11:46AM

redice
Beeeej
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.

If I recall correctly, had Ross scored, it was going to be some weird numerical anomaly where it would have been his 23rd goal, his 23rd birthday, and on the 23rd of March... I'm not sure if I have all of that right...(The 23rd of March doesn't sound right for the ECAC tourney).

It was March 10. No idea what the other stuff was about.

 
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.

"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: jkahn (---.73.146.216.biz.sta.networkgci.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 01:51PM

jtwcornell91
Jim Hyla
scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

Sounds like somebody needs to get a sense of perspective. And possibly also a lesson on Poisson statistics.

Here's some positive perspective. We are 6-0 in all-time postseason games vs. BC, excluding a 1-1 record in NCAA consolation games. Of the 6-0 games, the only one I did not see live was the '66 ECAC, the spring before my freshmen year. The two most recent games are the 2003 NCAA regional final (2-1 in 2o't. at Providence) and the 1980 ECAC quarterfinal at BC (5-1). All the others were between 1966 and 1973.

 
___________________________
Jeff Kahn '70 '72
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ugarte (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 30, 2020 02:17PM

redice
Beeeej
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Those of us who were there in person remember that game not just for having lost in a season we had more than the usual firepower, but for Ross Lemon being awarded - and missing - a penalty shot on his birthday that would have been a late-game tying goal.

If I recall correctly, had Ross scored, it was going to be some weird numerical anomaly where it would have been his 23rd goal, his 23rd birthday, and on the 23rd of March... I'm not sure if I have all of that right...(The 23rd of March doesn't sound right for the ECAC tourney).
his secretary was named lincoln

 
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 03:25PM

jkahn
jtwcornell91
Jim Hyla
scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

Sounds like somebody needs to get a sense of perspective. And possibly also a lesson on Poisson statistics.

Here's some positive perspective. We are 6-0 in all-time postseason games vs. BC, excluding a 1-1 record in NCAA consolation games. Of the 6-0 games, the only one I did not see live was the '66 ECAC, the spring before my freshmen year. The two most recent games are the 2003 NCAA regional final (2-1 in 2o't. at Providence) and the 1980 ECAC quarterfinal at BC (5-1). All the others were between 1966 and 1973.

Oh, you wouldn't have liked the '66 game. We blew them out, 9-0 at Lynah. Hardly any excitement at all. **]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 03:26PM by Swampy.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 06:54PM

Swampy
jkahn
jtwcornell91
Jim Hyla
scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

Sounds like somebody needs to get a sense of perspective. And possibly also a lesson on Poisson statistics.

Here's some positive perspective. We are 6-0 in all-time postseason games vs. BC, excluding a 1-1 record in NCAA consolation games. Of the 6-0 games, the only one I did not see live was the '66 ECAC, the spring before my freshmen year. The two most recent games are the 2003 NCAA regional final (2-1 in 2o't. at Providence) and the 1980 ECAC quarterfinal at BC (5-1). All the others were between 1966 and 1973.

Oh, you wouldn't have liked the '66 game. We blew them out, 9-0 at Lynah. Hardly any excitement at all. **]
Fantastic game. First post-season Cornell win. Lynah packed an hour before game time. A Doug goal on the opening rush. Then a first period Doug hat trick. Three years later my apartment was down the hall from Pat Murphy's, the BC starting goalie that night. Nice guy. Beautiful wife.

 
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: KenP (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 30, 2020 11:02PM

Getting back to the title of this thread.... can you do another version of your simulation that includes 1..n mulligans? USCHO and CHN and ELF is too much for me.

Even if it’s fake^2 I could use some fun Big Red news.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: marty (---.nycap.res.rr.com)
Date: March 31, 2020 08:26AM

jkahn
jtwcornell91
Jim Hyla
scoop85
Give My Regards
Well, now I'm actually liking real life better.

Yeah, and there goes the CHN tourney. Our record in the regional finals is as bad virtually as it has been in reality.

Nice comment on the CHN game thread.

William Ward
Cornell averaged about 10 penalty minutes per game through this season....one of the lowest averages in all of Division 1. They also had the fewest game misconducts. Whatever your calculation is for game misconducts, it clearly is not based on season stats per team. Maybe it's based on a Division 1 average. So you penalized Cornell with an unrealistic simulation. The #1 ranked team in the nation would never have committed a game misconduct in a game for the final four. Your simulation is flawed and needs to be corrected and replayed before you continue to disparage great teams. Cornell would have wiped the ice with BC in a game in Albany.

Sounds like somebody needs to get a sense of perspective. And possibly also a lesson on Poisson statistics.

Here's some positive perspective. We are 6-0 in all-time postseason games vs. BC, excluding a 1-1 record in NCAA consolation games. Of the 6-0 games, the only one I did not see live was the '66 ECAC, the spring before my freshmen year. The two most recent games are the 2003 NCAA regional final (2-1 in 2o't. at Providence) and the 1980 ECAC quarterfinal at BC (5-1). All the others were between 1966 and 1973.

It would be fun to document how many times Cornell beat Jerry York as a player vs as a coach in these playoff games.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: March 31, 2020 01:28PM



:`-(
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: KenP (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: March 31, 2020 08:23PM

ursusminor


:`-(
+1
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ugarte (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: March 31, 2020 08:46PM

ursusminor


:`-(
silver lining is that is an incredible run for RPI

 
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 01, 2020 04:58AM

marty
It would be fun to document how many times Cornell beat Jerry York as a player vs as a coach in these playoff games.

Season numbers are for end year (i.e., "65" = 1964-65)

   PS    All
2-0-0  5-0-0  Player at BC, 65-67
0-0-0  3-0-0  Assistant coach at BC, 69-70
0-1-0  0-3-0  Assistant coach at Clarkson, 71-72
3-0-0  8-4-0  Head coach at Clarkson, 73-79
0-0-0  0-3-0  Head coach at Bowling Green, 80-94
1-0-0  1-2-0  Head coach at BC, 95-20

6-1-0 in playoffs
17-12-0 in all games
Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2020 05:01AM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: April 01, 2020 06:44AM

ursusminor
marty
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Ralph, could you please give us a link? I can't find it on YouTube nor RPITV.org.

Sorry. Pickett is a BU fan. Most of his videos thus pertain to BU, but I am sure you remember that the ECAC still used the Boston Garden for several years after the great divorce. The thread is here. The direct link to his uploaded files is here. There is a second Cornell game from a year later, also a loss. Both videos are near the beginning.

He has added two more games with Cornell, both losses, the 1989 semifinal and consolation games. Same link as above.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 10, 2020 01:39PM

2020 Frozen Four

Results from April 9:

#5 Minnesota-Duluth upset by #7 Denver
#1 North Dakota defeated #6 Pedo State



Championship Game, April 11

#1 North Dakota vs #7 Denver
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 01:40PM by Trotsky.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Trotsky (---.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
Date: April 11, 2020 07:14PM

Championship Game, April 11

#1 North Dakota defeats #7 Denver
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: April 13, 2020 04:32AM

ursusminor
marty
ursusminor
It's not clear to me how this affects simulations, but Cornell suffers from having to play mediocre competition in the ECAC. Clarkson isn't bad, but after that -- blah!


It has nothing to do with this, but yesterday I enjoyed watching the 1990 RPI-Cornell ECAC semifinal which Sean Pickett uploaded recently. It made me realize again one of the reasons why I used to despise Cornell. :-) I did not watch that game in 1990 because I don't get NESN.

Ralph, could you please give us a link? I can't find it on YouTube nor RPITV.org.

Sorry. Pickett is a BU fan. Most of his videos thus pertain to BU, but I am sure you remember that the ECAC still used the Boston Garden for several years after the great divorce. The thread is here. The direct link to his uploaded files is here. There is a second Cornell game from a year later, also a loss. Both videos are near the beginning.

Pickett uploaded recently the 11/25/01 Cornell at BU game which was a Cornell win. The same links should work.

He has also posted that he is running out of room and will probably delete games not involving BU as well as BU losses.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: April 13, 2020 12:12PM

 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: upprdeck (38.77.26.---)
Date: April 13, 2020 01:22PM

A sim that thinks we give up 5 goals in a game like this?
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.44.98.30.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net)
Date: April 13, 2020 01:38PM

upprdeck
A sim that thinks we give up 5 goals in a game like this?

At least they had us in Detroit.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: pfibiger (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: April 13, 2020 01:39PM

upprdeck
A sim that thinks we give up 5 goals in a game like this?

this.

 
___________________________
Phil Fibiger '01
[www.fibiger.org]
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: ursusminor (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: April 13, 2020 02:21PM

upprdeck
A sim that thinks we give up 5 goals in a game like this?

Maybe there were two ENGs.
 
Re: Trotsky's Fantasy Post-Season
Posted by: scoop85 (---.hvc.res.rr.com)
Date: April 13, 2020 03:58PM

ursusminor
upprdeck
A sim that thinks we give up 5 goals in a game like this?

Maybe there were two ENGs.

What I was thinking
 
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