Bracketology for 2020 NCAAs

Jim Hyla
Bracketology: Will top-end balance continue in NCAA hockey up until Selection Sunday?

Jim’s bracket

Allentown Regional

1. North Dakota (1)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Loveland Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Denver (6)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

Jayson’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (5)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

NCAA hockey bracket: 2020 projections a month from selections

The projected 2020 NCAA college hockey bracket (as of Feb. 23)

Albany Regional (Albany, NY — Host ECAC)
1. North Dakota vs. 16. AIC
8. Massachusetts vs. 9. Ohio State

Worcester Regional (Worcester, MA — Host Holy Cross)
4. Boston College vs. 13. Arizona State
5. Minnesota Duluth vs. 12. Northeastern

Allentown Regional (Allentown, PA — Host Penn State)
3. Cornell vs. 14. Minnesota
7. Penn State vs. 11. Bemidji State

Loveland Regional (Loveland, CO — Host Denver)
2. Minnesota State vs. 15. Western Michigan
6. Denver vs. 10. Clarkson

Marty’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (6)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. t.Ohio State u. (9)
4. Minnesota (14)

The only move I made was to push Denver(6) and Bemidji(11) to Loveland as a pair which then moved Mass(8) and tOSu(9) to Albany. All of my first round matches add to 17 unless I've erred.

marty

Jim Hyla
Bracketology: Will top-end balance continue in NCAA hockey up until Selection Sunday?

Jim’s bracket

Allentown Regional

1. North Dakota (1)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Loveland Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Denver (6)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

Jayson’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (5)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

NCAA hockey bracket: 2020 projections a month from selections

The projected 2020 NCAA college hockey bracket (as of Feb. 23)

Albany Regional (Albany, NY — Host ECAC)
1. North Dakota vs. 16. AIC
8. Massachusetts vs. 9. Ohio State

Worcester Regional (Worcester, MA — Host Holy Cross)
4. Boston College vs. 13. Arizona State
5. Minnesota Duluth vs. 12. Northeastern

Allentown Regional (Allentown, PA — Host Penn State)
3. Cornell vs. 14. Minnesota
7. Penn State vs. 11. Bemidji State

Loveland Regional (Loveland, CO — Host Denver)
2. Minnesota State vs. 15. Western Michigan
6. Denver vs. 10. Clarkson

Marty’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (6)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. t.Ohio State u. (9)
4. Minnesota (14)

The only move I made was to push Denver(6) and Bemidji(11) to Loveland as a pair which then moved Mass(8) and tOSu(9) to Albany. All of my first round matches add to 17 unless I've erred.

Denver and NoDak fans would throw a fit

billhoward

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

Do we imbue Penn State with greater powers than they have? They have failed to win 14 of their 34 games. Tambroni is not coaching hockey. In Albany the bracket du jour would allow only Cornell or Clarkson to get to the FF. I'd like to reprise 1970 in the finals. See if Kaldis is up to a third period hat trick.

I've had quite enough of playing teams at "neutral" sites in their backyard.

It hadn't occured to me before but it's entirely possible that if Cornell makes the F4 we will be the closest school to Detroit.

Fill the barn, people.

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

And it would be nice if you stopped calling it that.

marty
Marty’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (6)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. t.Ohio State u. (9)
4. Minnesota (14)

The only move I made was to push Denver(6) and Bemidji(11) to Loveland as a pair which then moved Mass(8) and tOSu(9) to Albany. All of my first round matches add to 17 unless I've erred.

That's Jeff's bracket, too, for exactly the same reason. Great minds...

CU2007

marty

Jim Hyla
Bracketology: Will top-end balance continue in NCAA hockey up until Selection Sunday?

Jim’s bracket

Allentown Regional

1. North Dakota (1)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Loveland Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Denver (6)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

Jayson’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (5)
3. Ohio State (9)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Minnesota (14)

NCAA hockey bracket: 2020 projections a month from selections

The projected 2020 NCAA college hockey bracket (as of Feb. 23)

Albany Regional (Albany, NY — Host ECAC)
1. North Dakota vs. 16. AIC
8. Massachusetts vs. 9. Ohio State

Worcester Regional (Worcester, MA — Host Holy Cross)
4. Boston College vs. 13. Arizona State
5. Minnesota Duluth vs. 12. Northeastern

Allentown Regional (Allentown, PA — Host Penn State)
3. Cornell vs. 14. Minnesota
7. Penn State vs. 11. Bemidji State

Loveland Regional (Loveland, CO — Host Denver)
2. Minnesota State vs. 15. Western Michigan
6. Denver vs. 10. Clarkson

Marty’s bracket

Loveland Regional
1. North Dakota (1)
2. Denver (6)
3. Bemidji State (11)
4. American International (16)

Worcester Regional
1. Boston College (4)
2. Minnesota Duluth (5)
3. Northeastern (12)
4. Arizona State (13)

Allentown Regional
1. Minnesota State (2)
2. Penn State (7)
3. Clarkson (10)
4. Western Michigan (15)

Albany Regional
1. Cornell (3)
2. Massachusetts (8)
3. t.Ohio State u. (9)
4. Minnesota (14)

The only move I made was to push Denver(6) and Bemidji(11) to Loveland as a pair which then moved Mass(8) and tOSu(9) to Albany. All of my first round matches add to 17 unless I've erred.

Denver and NoDak fans would throw a fit

CU2007

Denver and NoDak fans would throw a fit

One way or another the NoDak fans will be upset. Either they'll complain about having to play Denver in their backyard (never mind how many times the regional has been in Fargo) or they'll complain about having to travel to the east coast. They won't be satisfied either way, so just take them out of the equation.

As to Denver, if they want not to have to play a higher seed, they need to move up to #4. They're already getting a home series. F' em.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

And it would be nice if you stopped calling it that.

You know what would have been even nicer?

If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

billhoward

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

Do we imbue Penn State with greater powers than they have? They have failed to win 14 of their 34 games. Tambroni is not coaching hockey. In Albany the bracket du jour would allow only Cornell or Clarkson to get to the FF. I'd like to reprise 1970 in the finals. See if Kaldis is up to a third period hat trick.

As much as I hate to do this, because Albany & Worcester are easiest for me to travel to, +1. (I'd even go for a Barron hat trick.)

Jim Hyla

Loveland Regional (Loveland, CO — Host Denver)
2. Minnesota State vs. 15. Western Michigan
6. Denver vs. 10. Clarkson

Clarkson won't be altitude adapted. One and done.

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

Trotsky
It hadn't occured to me before but it's entirely possible that if Cornell makes the F4 we will be the closest school to Detroit.

Fill the barn, people.

Little Caesars arena is a nicer barn than the Joe. A bit more kneeroom, too.

billhoward

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

But I’d rather take them on in Detroit than in Allentown.

billhoward
As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

Providence called...

Trotsky

billhoward
As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

Providence called...

They said..."You suck!" ???

I don't care about if or when we run into Penn State.

I just care about where we run into Penn State. Tired of being the favorite in opposing territory.

I was hoping that Denver could move back up to #4. That way we could be 100% certain that we wouldn't have to go to Loveland. With Denver at #6, they could still screw us over and send us west.

Trotsky

billhoward

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

Do we imbue Penn State with greater powers than they have? They have failed to win 14 of their 34 games. Tambroni is not coaching hockey. In Albany the bracket du jour would allow only Cornell or Clarkson to get to the FF. I'd like to reprise 1970 in the finals. See if Kaldis is up to a third period hat trick.

I've had quite enough of playing teams at "neutral" sites in their backyard.

If only there was some way Cornell could host a regional and guarantee it stays local. Maybe there's a long list of schools that want to host and we have to wait for a chance.

NCAA
Regional competition for the DI Men's Ice Hockey Championship will take place March 27-29 at four regional sites. For 2020, the East regional has been awarded to the Times Union Center in Albany, New York, and will be hosted by ECAC Hockey on March 28-29, while the Northeast regional will be held March 27-28 at the DCU Center in Worcester, Massachusetts, with Holy Cross serving as the host. The Midwest regional will be hosted by Penn State on March 28-29 at the PPL Center in Allentown, Pennsylvania, while Denver will be the host school for the West regional March 27-28 at the Budweiser Events Center in Loveland, Colorado.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

And it would be nice if you stopped calling it that.

Be nicer if Penn State felt remorse and contrition for longer than a freshman stays at Kentucky playing basketball.

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

And it would be nice if you stopped calling it that.

You know what would have been even nicer?

+1

It becomes even worse i suppose if Minn Duluth becomes the 4. Then would they really move 2 of then east and leave Denver to play at home and make 2 higher seeded teams come east?

But if Denver wins out how far up the PWR do they move?

2 losses could have knocked PSU out or down to 12-13ish but the b10 format means they only at worst can lose 1 game.

billhoward

Trotsky

billhoward

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

Do we imbue Penn State with greater powers than they have? They have failed to win 14 of their 34 games. Tambroni is not coaching hockey. In Albany the bracket du jour would allow only Cornell or Clarkson to get to the FF. I'd like to reprise 1970 in the finals. See if Kaldis is up to a third period hat trick.

I've had quite enough of playing teams at "neutral" sites in their backyard.

If only there was some way Cornell could host a regional and guarantee it stays local. Maybe there's a long list of schools that want to host and we have to wait for a chance.

NCAA
Regional competition for the DI Men's Ice Hockey Championship will take place March 27-29 at four regional sites. For 2020, the East regional has been awarded to the Times Union Center in Albany, New York, and will be hosted by ECAC Hockey on March 28-29, while the Northeast regional will be held March 27-28 at the DCU Center in Worcester, Massachusetts, with Holy Cross serving as the host. The Midwest regional will be hosted by Penn State on March 28-29 at the PPL Center in Allentown, Pennsylvania, while Denver will be the host school for the West regional March 27-28 at the Budweiser Events Center in Loveland, Colorado.

Let me just state the obvious questions. This would imply that at least one ECAC team has the “home team right” in Albany. Is this true or not? And if it’s true, how is that home team selected?

I thought this just meant it was coordinated by the ECAC as a whole and thus no team got the extra benefit?

As to why the Cornell AD staff doesnt bother to even try some years to be the host , I guess they are too busy in any given years doing something?

Swampy

billhoward

Trotsky

billhoward

Trotsky
It would be nice to avoid Pedo State in Allentown.

Do we imbue Penn State with greater powers than they have? They have failed to win 14 of their 34 games. Tambroni is not coaching hockey. In Albany the bracket du jour would allow only Cornell or Clarkson to get to the FF. I'd like to reprise 1970 in the finals. See if Kaldis is up to a third period hat trick.

I've had quite enough of playing teams at "neutral" sites in their backyard.

If only there was some way Cornell could host a regional and guarantee it stays local. Maybe there's a long list of schools that want to host and we have to wait for a chance.

NCAA
Regional competition for the DI Men's Ice Hockey Championship will take place March 27-29 at four regional sites. For 2020, the East regional has been awarded to the Times Union Center in Albany, New York, and will be hosted by ECAC Hockey on March 28-29, while the Northeast regional will be held March 27-28 at the DCU Center in Worcester, Massachusetts, with Holy Cross serving as the host. The Midwest regional will be hosted by Penn State on March 28-29 at the PPL Center in Allentown, Pennsylvania, while Denver will be the host school for the West regional March 27-28 at the Budweiser Events Center in Loveland, Colorado.

Let me just state the obvious questions. This would imply that at least one ECAC team has the “home team right” in Albany. Is this true or not? And if it’s true, how is that home team selected?

I'm sure someone will clarify but in the meantime IIRC when the ECAC hosts there is no team host. It gives us no protection.

Were I Cornell I would be hosting every regional in New York State. Apparently there is expense and time involved and god knows a school with our endowment can't afford to hire one FTE to do nothing but make sure the paperwork gets filed correctly. Or, I dunno, ask me to do it for free.

upprdeck
I thought this just meant it was coordinated by the ECAC as a whole and thus no team got the extra benefit?

As to why the Cornell AD staff doesnt bother to even try some years to be the host , I guess they are too busy in any given years doing something?

I assumed Albany got no invididual-college volunteers and Cornell like the others looked at the workoad with no benefit - OTHER THAN EVEN AS A FOUR-SEED CORNELL WOULD STAY LOCAL - and didn't volunteer. We all can remember Cornell hosting an NCAA lax regional ~ 10 years ago and there were a couple screwups like Schoellkopf running out of food at the concession stands.

Maybe the Johnson School could take on Albany or Allentown in a future years as a charity case. Then all the involved students could add a sports-marketing line to their resumes.

Swampy

billhoward

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

But I’d rather take them on in Detroit than in Allentown.

If there *is* a Detroit. A friend put it out there a few days ago, and I'm starting to worry.

[www.yardbarker.com]

billhoward

If only there was some way Cornell could host a regional and guarantee it stays local. Maybe there's a long list of schools that want to host and we have to wait for a chance.

Our Athletic Department has never indicated it would even consider lifting a finger to host anything. They can't even host a single hockey game at MSG without outside help, and it's basically the same every year.

they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

its also different hosting a world event with travelers than a US event with travelers.

RichH

Swampy

billhoward

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

But I’d rather take them on in Detroit than in Allentown.

If there *is* a Detroit. A friend put it out there a few days ago, and I'm starting to worry.

[www.yardbarker.com]

Don't even, muthafucka.

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

You’re assuming the ECAC would’ve been willing to shoulder the lion’s share of the cost and workload just so one specific member team can get a location benefit for the regionals.

More generally, I suspect you all are grossly under-estimating the potential cost outlay and logistical complexity of organizing an event of this scale. This isn’t a family reunion on the Jersey Shore (which, incidentally, is much harder to organize without some local connections), it’s a multi-day one-off major sporting event featuring a set of participants from four schools of unknown size and location. Doing logistics management with a few phone calls and one or two site visits is a recipe for disaster.

If Cornell was actually in Albany or Syracuse that’d be one thing, but it isn’t (although Syracuse is a more reasonable target if their AHL arena is sufficient for NCAA regional purposes). As much as I’d love to see the home ice advantage for the regional I don’t see why Cornell would ever take it on, unless it turns out that it really is a few phone calls and some chance of losing $10k or something. I just can’t imagine that’s the case.

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

What is sad is that a small essentially D3 school, RPI, used to host at Albany. I don't knock them for giving that up but geez Cornell could do it.

Tom Lento

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

You’re assuming the ECAC would’ve been willing to shoulder the lion’s share of the cost and workload just so one specific member team can get a location benefit for the regionals.

More generally, I suspect you all are grossly under-estimating the potential cost outlay and logistical complexity of organizing an event of this scale. This isn’t a family reunion on the Jersey Shore (which, incidentally, is much harder to organize without some local connections), it’s a multi-day one-off major sporting event featuring a set of participants from four schools of unknown size and location. Doing logistics management with a few phone calls and one or two site visits is a recipe for disaster.

If Cornell was actually in Albany or Syracuse that’d be one thing, but it isn’t (although Syracuse is a more reasonable target if their AHL arena is sufficient for NCAA regional purposes). As much as I’d love to see the home ice advantage for the regional I don’t see why Cornell would ever take it on, unless it turns out that it really is a few phone calls and some chance of losing $10k or something. I just can’t imagine that’s the case.

It's money. All the effort you can (and should) subcontract to somebody who knows what they are doing (emphatically not the Cornell athletic office).

It's just not a priority for throwing money around. Budget is politics and driven by trophies that political players can put on their walls. So you get a faddish initiative or a big grant or you destroy some more of Cornell's greenspace for yet another godawful builiding. Nobody's going to speak for hosting a hockey tournament that doesn't even include the women. My god, that Trustees meeting is not something anybody would want to try to speak at. "I'm sorry, you want to what?"

And that's good. We're fucked enough in what we pour money into that has nothing to do with our academic mission. We shouldn't be in the SEC business of wasting academic resources on jock bullshit.

It just sucks.

RichH

Swampy

billhoward

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

But I’d rather take them on in Detroit than in Allentown.

If there *is* a Detroit. A friend put it out there a few days ago, and I'm starting to worry.

[www.yardbarker.com]

So they'll '94 Expo us?

French Rage

RichH

Swampy

billhoward

adamw
If it wasn't for the fact that I'd be scared of losing, I would LOVE to see Cornell-Penn State in the NCAAs. The contrasting coaching philosophy is off the charts interesting.

I like the bracketeers who put Clarkson and Penn State in the 2-3 or 3-2 slots in Allentown, and Cornell in Albany. Gives Cornell the possibility of reprising the 1970 final.

As for not running into Penn State until we have to, I'm sure there's a coach or announcer who's prepped to say if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.

But I’d rather take them on in Detroit than in Allentown.

If there *is* a Detroit. A friend put it out there a few days ago, and I'm starting to worry.

[www.yardbarker.com]

So they'll '94 Expo us?

I've already seen some talk of March Madness being played in empty arenas.

Tom Lento

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

You’re assuming the ECAC would’ve been willing to shoulder the lion’s share of the cost and workload just so one specific member team can get a location benefit for the regionals.

More generally, I suspect you all are grossly under-estimating the potential cost outlay and logistical complexity of organizing an event of this scale. This isn’t a family reunion on the Jersey Shore (which, incidentally, is much harder to organize without some local connections), it’s a multi-day one-off major sporting event featuring a set of participants from four schools of unknown size and location. Doing logistics management with a few phone calls and one or two site visits is a recipe for disaster.

If Cornell was actually in Albany or Syracuse that’d be one thing, but it isn’t (although Syracuse is a more reasonable target if their AHL arena is sufficient for NCAA regional purposes). As much as I’d love to see the home ice advantage for the regional I don’t see why Cornell would ever take it on, unless it turns out that it really is a few phone calls and some chance of losing $10k or something. I just can’t imagine that’s the case.

FWIW, the Syracuse War Memorial seats 6500 for hockey. Loveland seats about 5300, Allentown 8500+. So capacity-wise, it's suitable. It hosted the Frozen Four in '67 and '71, but I don't know if it's suitable for a regional of today's standards.

I think a more pertinent question is whether we could fill it? We sometimes have trouble filling Lynah these days. Yes, we can sell a bunch of tickets at MSG, but think of the alumni network we have in NYC. I know we brought a big crowd to the Carrier Dome for the Sweet 16, but could we do that for a "lesser" sport? I'm not sure.

Hasn't Brown co-hosted in Providence? Harvard, in Boston? RPI, in Albany?

And we're talking about the regionals here, not the nationals.

Providence College hosted last year. So consider:

Providence College

Endowment: $234.2 million

Students: 4,550 (undergraduates + graduates)

Faculty: At 12 students for every instructional faculty member, that's a faculty of 379 members.


Now consider Cornell University:

Endowment: $7.33 billion

Students: 24,027 (total)

Faculty: At 9 students for every instructional faculty member, that's 2,670 faculty members


And, shit, if we can handle splitting colleges between the Ithaca and New York Tech campuses, which are 233 miles (4h 35m by car according to Google Maps), don't tell me we can't handle the commute to Albany (166 mi.; 2h, 53m) or Syracuse (52.5 mi; 1h 2m).

Jeff Hopkins '82

Tom Lento

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

You’re assuming the ECAC would’ve been willing to shoulder the lion’s share of the cost and workload just so one specific member team can get a location benefit for the regionals.

More generally, I suspect you all are grossly under-estimating the potential cost outlay and logistical complexity of organizing an event of this scale. This isn’t a family reunion on the Jersey Shore (which, incidentally, is much harder to organize without some local connections), it’s a multi-day one-off major sporting event featuring a set of participants from four schools of unknown size and location. Doing logistics management with a few phone calls and one or two site visits is a recipe for disaster.

If Cornell was actually in Albany or Syracuse that’d be one thing, but it isn’t (although Syracuse is a more reasonable target if their AHL arena is sufficient for NCAA regional purposes). As much as I’d love to see the home ice advantage for the regional I don’t see why Cornell would ever take it on, unless it turns out that it really is a few phone calls and some chance of losing $10k or something. I just can’t imagine that’s the case.

FWIW, the Syracuse War Memorial seats 6500 for hockey. Loveland seats about 5300, Allentown 8500+. So capacity-wise, it's suitable. It hosted the Frozen Four in '67 and '71, but I don't know if it's suitable for a regional of today's standards.

I think a more pertinent question is whether we could fill it? We sometimes have trouble filling Lynah these days. Yes, we can sell a bunch of tickets at MSG, but think of the alumni network we have in NYC. I know we brought a big crowd to the Carrier Dome for the Sweet 16, but could we do that for a "lesser" sport? I'm not sure.

Back in the day, attendance at the SHIT was horrendous. Fun fact: the Syracuse War Memorial is the most depressing place I've ever been to see a hockey game, and I've been to the Tacoma Dome.

Swampy
Hasn't Brown co-hosted in Providence? Harvard, in Boston? RPI, in Albany?

And we're talking about the regionals here, not the nationals.

Providence College hosted last year. So consider:

Providence College

Endowment: $234.2 million

Students: 4,550 (undergraduates + graduates)

Faculty: At 12 students for every instructional faculty member, that's a faculty of 379 members.


Now consider Cornell University:

Endowment: $7.33 billion

Students: 24,027 (total)

Faculty: At 9 students for every instructional faculty member, that's 2,670 faculty members


And, shit, if we can handle splitting colleges between the Ithaca and New York Tech campuses, which are 233 miles (4h 35m by car according to Google Maps), don't tell me we can't handle the commute to Albany (166 mi.; 2h, 53m) or Syracuse (52.5 mi; 1h 2m).

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Tom Lento

upprdeck
they could have offered to share hosting with the ECAC. its not like making the cut was a wild long shot. it probably would have required a few phone calls and maybe a trip or 2 all the way to Albany. Huge schools like Holy Cross figured out a way to do it.
Probably too overwhelmed by all the other things that they have going on.

You’re assuming the ECAC would’ve been willing to shoulder the lion’s share of the cost and workload just so one specific member team can get a location benefit for the regionals.

More generally, I suspect you all are grossly under-estimating the potential cost outlay and logistical complexity of organizing an event of this scale. This isn’t a family reunion on the Jersey Shore (which, incidentally, is much harder to organize without some local connections), it’s a multi-day one-off major sporting event featuring a set of participants from four schools of unknown size and location. Doing logistics management with a few phone calls and one or two site visits is a recipe for disaster.

If Cornell was actually in Albany or Syracuse that’d be one thing, but it isn’t (although Syracuse is a more reasonable target if their AHL arena is sufficient for NCAA regional purposes). As much as I’d love to see the home ice advantage for the regional I don’t see why Cornell would ever take it on, unless it turns out that it really is a few phone calls and some chance of losing $10k or something. I just can’t imagine that’s the case.

FWIW, the Syracuse War Memorial seats 6500 for hockey. Loveland seats about 5300, Allentown 8500+. So capacity-wise, it's suitable. It hosted the Frozen Four in '67 and '71, but I don't know if it's suitable for a regional of today's standards.

I think a more pertinent question is whether we could fill it? We sometimes have trouble filling Lynah these days. Yes, we can sell a bunch of tickets at MSG, but think of the alumni network we have in NYC. I know we brought a big crowd to the Carrier Dome for the Sweet 16, but could we do that for a "lesser" sport? I'm not sure.

The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

Maybe a bigger issue is whether the neoliberal city fathers (and mothers -- "city parents"?) would welcome, boost, and contribute to Cornell hosting an event in their cities the same way as those in Providence welcome PC, Allentown welcome PSU, Loveland welcomes DU, etc.

You know what solves all this?

Campus sites for the first two rounds.

Just sayin'.

IINM there's nothing scheduled beyond 2022. Senior Ben Berard could score an NCAA QF hat trick at Lynah.

Cornell's NC$$ game locations (had matchups stayed the same):

Yr Actual       Co Op Campus Site     
96 Albany       E6 E3 at Lake Superior
97 Grand Rapids W6 W3 at Miami 
97 Grand Rapids W6 W2 at North Dakota
02 Worcester    E4 E5 Quinnipiac
02 Worcester    E4 E1 at UNH
03 Providence   E1 E4 Mankato
03 Providence   E1 E2 BC
05 Minneapolis  W2 W3 Ohio State
05 Minneapolis  W2 W1 at Minnesota
06 Green Bay    W2 W3 CC
06 Green Bay    W2 W1 at Wisconsin
09 Grand Rapids M3 M2 Northeastern
09 Grand Rapids M3 M4 Bemidji
10 Albany       E2 E3 UNH
12 Green Bay    M4 M1 at Michigan
12 Green Bay    M4 M2 at Ferris State
17 Manchester   N3 N2 at Lowell
18 Worcester    N1 N4 BU
19 Providence   E3 E2 at Northeastern
19 Providence   E3 E4 Providence

Games we won which we would have had to play on the road.
Games we lost which we would have gotten to play at home.

Yeah there is a cost/time outlay. But its also spread out over multiple months, Its not 40 hrs a week for 10 months thing like an olympics. In a world where meetings of a much larger importance are routinely handled over phone/zoom/etc dont say it cant be done.. its a logistics thing and it requires effort more than cost. It also requires a skill set that we probably lack. I do know they consider it and effort worth spending.. But if this was the wrestling team getting trying to win a championship it would happen.

They dont even want to host the Lax Ivy or NCAA regional playoffs at home so I can see why they dont do it..

Its not like we expect it to happen every yr. But bigger picture they should forecast it every once awhile

upprdeck
Yeah there is a cost/time outlay. But its also spread out over multiple months, Its not 40 hrs a week for 10 months thing like an olympics. In a world where meetings of a much larger importance are routinely handled over phone/zoom/etc dont say it cant be done.. its a logistics thing and it requires effort more than cost. It also requires a skill set that we probably lack. I do know they consider it and effort worth spending.. But if this was the wrestling team getting trying to win a championship it would happen.

They dont even want to host the Lax Ivy or NCAA regional playoffs at home so I can see why they dont do it..

Its not like we expect it to happen every yr. But bigger picture they should forecast it every once awhile

I hate to tempt the woofing gods, but at least our men's hockey team looks very good this year and next. And on paper, at least, for quite a few years to come.

So, after posting the polls, etc. I start reading the 29 posts on Bracketology that have come up since I checked in the morning.

I was hopeful for something exciting, like maybe an early announcement about the next 10 years of the tourney, or SU decided to start a men's team and as part of the Dome renovation they were going to add ice and start trying to get the regionals/Frozen Four.

But what do I plow through, endless comments about why can't CU host a regional, it must be that they don't care, or they're too cheap, or whatever.

No one bothers to try and find out what is needed to be a host, which seems to me to be the first step upon discussing whether CU could/should go for it.

If you really want to help, get the requirements in money (including what is risked if no crowd shows up), time and other effort. Post the info and see whether you can stir up some interest.

Or you can just post your complaints and theories as to why it must be that CU won't do what must be cheap and simple.

After all, doesn't the NCAA have dozens and dozens of places asking to host every year? They must know something that CU doesn't, don't they?

Jim Hyla

After all, doesn't the NCAA have dozens and dozens of places asking to host every year? They must know something that CU doesn't, don't they?

all I know is that other schools do it and every time they do we have to play them at their place

The host must also provide all public relations coordination, first aid and medical services, food and beverage concessions, support personnel, computers, fax machines, printers, athletic training staff, and “other items as later requested by the NCAA.” To accomplish this, each site requires about 100 volunteers.

you can read the rest. somethings like spend $5000 to market the games and make sure they make $150,000 is interesting.
Much of this though is done by the site, you dont just get an area/arena to go into this without some help from them as well.

so you want to be a host

really though, much of the spec is facility related.. you have to be willing to market the game a little and make sure hotel and some other stuff happens.. If you join in with Albany I have to think they are doing most of that heavy lifting and have done it dozens of times.

ugarte

Jim Hyla

After all, doesn't the NCAA have dozens and dozens of places asking to host every year? They must know something that CU doesn't, don't they?

all I know is that other schools do it and every time they do we have to play them at their place

I think we all know the problem. The difficulty is the solution. So far on this thread I read a lot about the problem, whining about CU not hosting, and no discussion about the solution.

The line you quoted was meant to emphasize that the NCAA doesn't have an abundance of schools/other entities that apply for hosting a regional.

Maybe, just maybe, many of them have looked at the process and determined that the risk is not worth the reward. If that's true, then the problem is not that schools don't apply, but that the NCAA is asking too much.

I don't know what is the problem. But I do know that to come up with an answer, you first need to understand the problem. Otherwise all we do is whine.

Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Swampy

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Would we even head back to Ithaca from Albany between games?

marty

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?

Dafatone

Swampy

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Would we even head back to Ithaca from Albany between games?

Probably not, but BC might head back to Chestnut Hill from a regional in Worcester hosted by, say, Holy Cross.

I believe that currently all teams participating in a regional or Frozen Four are required to stay in a hotel, rather than their dorms or regular college housing. To prevent geographical advantages with facilities, which go beyond hosting the event (see the BC example above), all participating teams, including their coaches, trainers, etc., should be forbidden from using any training or other athletic facility other than one(s) equally available to all teams participating in the event.

Trotsky

marty

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?

This may be why he nominated you.

Swampy

Trotsky

marty

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?

This may be why he nominated you.

[www.youtube.com]

the power went out last yr at the Cornell hotel and they couldnt even watch game film for a good chunk of time while providence was home getting ready.

maybe they should ask the top 4 teams to order their preferences too. maybe ND would rather stay west and play Denver in rd 2 than go east?

Swampy

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

State College is 164 miles from Allentown. Seems to me quite a bit different than Providence playing a few miles from its campus.

I’ve always thought a neat way to run seeding would be for higher seeds to pick their locations and opponents. Might increase the travel costs too much on the national scene, but it would sure make ECACs interesting.

scoop85
State College is 164 miles from Allentown. Seems to me quite a bit different than Providence playing a few miles from its campus.

That actually makes me feel a lot better. Thank you. I thought they were closer. That's the distance from Ithaca to Albany. We'll be fine.

Ithaca distances to driveable regionals:

167 Albany
181 Allentown
293 Worcester

Swampy

Dafatone

Swampy

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Would we even head back to Ithaca from Albany between games?

Probably not, but BC might head back to Chestnut Hill from a regional in Worcester hosted by, say, Holy Cross.

I believe that currently all teams participating in a regional or Frozen Four are required to stay in a hotel, rather than their dorms or regular college housing. To prevent geographical advantages with facilities, which go beyond hosting the event (see the BC example above), all participating teams, including their coaches, trainers, etc., should be forbidden from using any training or other athletic facility other than one(s) equally available to all teams participating in the event.

Isn't this exactly what the FryBoys did last year? Is this a change or did they just ignore the rule?

Swampy

Trotsky

marty

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?

This may be why he nominated you.

marty

Swampy

Dafatone

Swampy

Jim Hyla
Adam's take on the brackets and the current issues.

Adam Wodon
Now, I don't really think Cornell should fear a potential second-round game in Allentown against Penn State. There would be at least as many Cornell fans there as Penn State fans. And I am fascinated by the idea of seeing Cornell face Penn State in the NCAAs, with contrasting styles. But I know Cornell people prefer Albany, so there's that.

Adam,

The issue is much bigger than how many fans are in the stands. If this were solely the case, Cornell would almost always be at an advantage.

Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Would we even head back to Ithaca from Albany between games?

Probably not, but BC might head back to Chestnut Hill from a regional in Worcester hosted by, say, Holy Cross.

I believe that currently all teams participating in a regional or Frozen Four are required to stay in a hotel, rather than their dorms or regular college housing. To prevent geographical advantages with facilities, which go beyond hosting the event (see the BC example above), all participating teams, including their coaches, trainers, etc., should be forbidden from using any training or other athletic facility other than one(s) equally available to all teams participating in the event.

Isn't this exactly what the FryBoys did last year? Is this a change or did they just ignore the rule?

There is no such rule. Swampy’s point is that there should be.

Swampy
Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, ....

Seems like an unnecessary qualifier. It's all about three things:
* The money
* Prefacing athlete with student and keeping a straight face when talking about, say, Louisville basketball
* Nice hotels for officialdom at tournaments and off-season conferences

Trotsky

scoop85
State College is 164 miles from Allentown. Seems to me quite a bit different than Providence playing a few miles from its campus.

That actually makes me feel a lot better. Thank you. I thought they were closer. That's the distance from Ithaca to Albany. We'll be fine.

Ithaca distances to driveable regionals:

167 Albany
181 Allentown
293 Worcester

First two can be day trips for Ithacans. I hope Cornell sets up buses for students and EV owners.

All three are day-trip distances from metro New York. You go out day one. If we have the early game on day one, you have the option if things go well to do a last-minute hotel if there is a second game for Cornell, and if not, shed tears on the drive back and still be home by midnight.

I like to think Worcester would more likely go to the 1-seed from New England so their semi-loyal fans don't have to drive so far. This if BC can be the fourth 1-seed as the only strong Hockey East team this year.

Does the Cornell team fear Penn State, or is it just those of us here online? Will we be more confident if we take down Penn State lax this Saturday?

There is so much what-iffing on this thread (me, guilty, too) that it was nice to see a just-the-facts scenario laid out by Adam Wodon in his CHN column. It does feel like Allentown or Albany is where we'll go barring, say, being swept in the ECAC QFs.

Does anybody from Cornell have the opinion that Providence played better on that day last spring?

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

People in the athletics department who are, or believe they are, fully engaged, won't jump at the opportunity to do more work on the chance that Cornell qualifies for the NCAAs and that not being sent west improves the likely outome for the hockey team. The other advantage is that more Cornell fans go to an Albany, Bridgeport, Providence, Worcester or Allentown event than someplace in Michigan or the Rockies.

Swampy
Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

So let me get this straight. You want CU to host a regional, in say Binghamton. Then you want the team sent to Manchester, so that all the fans leave Ithaca.

And CU's supposed to take the risk and make money on that.

I'll take the bet against that, if you'll take the bet for it.

Do we need hosts? Is the Frozen Four "hosted"?

Dafatone
Do we need hosts? Is the Frozen Four "hosted"?

Yes.

do i want cornell in albany, where i have a place to stay for free? or in allentown, which turns out to be a closer drive. hmm

Dafatone
Do we need hosts? Is the Frozen Four "hosted"?

The FF is most definitely hosted.

This year's hosts are Michigan State and Detroit Sports Commission. The University of Wisconsin hosted the most recent FF in Tampa. The University of Alaska Anchorage hosted the first Frozen Four I attended in Anaheim, CA.

Trotsky

marty

ugarte

Beeeej

Is it now time for the annual conversation about how endowments work?

Hosting a hockey regional is just like anything else you want Cornell to do that they don't already do. Someone external needs to come up with the money, the will, and the way of getting it done, and they might consider it.

Cornell has over a billion in the general purpose fund. Someone in Athletics can make a pitch to the Trustees.

I nominate Greg.

I'm obnoxious and disliked, did you know that?

I hadn't heard.

Trotsky

scoop85
State College is 164 miles from Allentown. Seems to me quite a bit different than Providence playing a few miles from its campus.

That actually makes me feel a lot better. Thank you. I thought they were closer. That's the distance from Ithaca to Albany. We'll be fine.

Ithaca distances to driveable regionals:

167 Albany
181 Allentown
293 Worcester

And let me tell you, getting from Ithaca to Albany is a lot more straightforward than getting from State College to Allentown.

Albany to Ithaca is one of the easiest drives ever. I've done it in a little over 2.5 hours without being pulled over (I-88 often has several state troopers)

Weder

Dafatone
Do we need hosts? Is the Frozen Four "hosted"?

Yes.

Cripe! As per the link, the 2021 regional sites are:

East, Bridgeport (hosts Yale, Sacred Heart) - 250 miles
Midwest, Fargo (N Dakota) - 1300 miles
NEast, Manchester (UNH) - 400 miles
West, Loveland CO [same site as this year] (Denver) - 1640 miles

FINALS Pittsburgh (Sports Pittsburgh) - 340 miles

... so only Bridgeport is a reasonable drive.

ugarte
do i want Cornell in Albany, where i have a place to stay for free? or in Allentown, which turns out to be a closer drive. hmm

I have places to stay for free in both Allentown and Worcester. I'll even get free food in Worcester since my sister will cook But I'd still be perfectly happy going to Albany.

And for those worrying about PPL Center being full of Penn State Fans, as of now it looks like there have been very few tickets sold. Most of the lower bowl (other than those sections being reserved for the schools) and much of the upper sections are still available for both sessions. So either the Penn State alumni aren't interested or they don't understand that Penn State is likely guaranteed to be playing there. But they are advertising it at the Phantoms games and on both the Phantoms and Flyers broadcasts, so if there are general hockey fans who are also Penn State alums, they should be aware of it.

Lastly, when Penn State played Princeton in Philly in 2018, the attendance was about 8500. So they don't bring the numbers like we do at MSG even in Philly. And the last time they were in the NCAAs in Allentown (2018), the semifinal attendance was 7500 in an arena that seats 8500 plus. So I don't think this will be as much of a Penn State home game as people are making out.

Let me just clarify a few things:

1. I am simply arguing that home-ice advantage goes beyond the number of fans who show up at the event. In particular, easy access to home athletic support systems can confer a huge advantage.
2. Trying to figure out a way to negate this unfair advantage, I initially proposed (at 09:12) requiring the host teams to play at "foreign" sites, like everyone else does. Then (at 10:18) I rethought what I said in my earlier post and proposed instead (what I currently think is) a better solution. Currently, even the home teams have to stay in hotels for the weekend: they're forbidden from sleeping in their usual digs. So I proposed extending this to forbidding all teams from using any athletics-related facilities that are not available to all teams participating in the event. If enforced, this would solve, for example, the problem of, say, BU hosting the event but Harvard going back to Bright between games to pop steroids behind the stands.
3. Marty, I'm not sure what you're asking. Yes, the PC team slept in a hotel. But they also went back to campus where they could use the "coaches offices, shooting room, ... meeting rooms, athletic training room, ... video boards, video ribbon boards, ... and a strength and conditioning facility" at Schneider Arena, or they could go over to the Ruane Athletic Development Center where they could use:
   

   
   sleep pods, flotation pools, cryogenic therapy, electronic massage, body fat testing, plus access to sports psychologists, team doctors, and x-ray machines when needed. In short, whether it is sleep, hydration, nutrition, or mental health, the athletic staff is clearly taking a holistic approach to meeting the needs of their student athletes.

   The article also mentions:
   

   
   .. two practice [basketball] courts that are being recorded at all times. That means the coaching staff ... [can] integrate everything they are doing from a technology standpoint. When a play happens during practice, the team is immediately able to review it, as the live feed is processed to multiple computers and screens instantaneously, including one big screen that is mounted to the wall next to the court. This also [sic..allows] the staff to not just tell the players what corrections they need to make, but literally show them on screen without having to leave the court or interrupt the flow of practice.

   Schneider Arena was renovated in 2013, and I wouldn't be surprised if by now similar technology has been installed there. Imagine the advantage if you give up a goal on the PK in your first game and then can go over to campus for an hour practice where you can study what you did and then work on correcting it.
4. Bill, you make good points. I also appreciate Adam's clear, intelligent writing on college hockey. I was just pointing out that fan base in only one advantage local teams -- not just hosts -- have, and perhaps it's not even the most important one.
   
   And yes, Providence did play better that day. They whupped us. The question is how did they do it? There probably are a bunch of answers to this question that are legitimate and deserve a tip of the hat from us, but we'll never know if an hour in cryogenic therapy or a film session on ice, for example, didn't confer an unfair advantage that was unavailable to the other teams. I'm simply arguing (a) not to ignore such advantages (I'm looking at you, Adam) and (b) to find ways to minimize such unfair advantages.
5. Bill's point about 2021 is also a good one. But it highlights the inherent advantage New England teams have. For a long time New England and Minnesota were the hotbeds of hockey, and this led to them having several schools with strong hockey traditions. Now there's a fan base and, especially in New England, relatively short distances and lots of schools that can host with little financial risk (if the committee chooses wisely which schools it sends to the venue). This is an inherent geo-historical advantage that probably won't ever be overcome, at least not in our lifetimes. I just think we shouldn't ignore it, and where possible those who govern the sport should do everything possible to minimize unfair advantages.

Swampy
Marty, I'm not sure what you're asking. Yes, the PC team slept in a hotel...

I was not reading your post properly. I thought you were saying that Providence essentially broke the rules (or perhaps the rules changed after the 2019 season.) I was mistaken.

Swampy
Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Allentown is hours from State College. No one is leaving Allentown to go train at their advanced home facilities.

Everything is driven by money. News flash.

Swampy
And yes, Providence did play better that day. They whupped us. The question is how did they do it? There probably are a bunch of answers to this question that are legitimate and deserve a tip of the hat from us, but we'll never know if an hour in cryogenic therapy or a film session on ice, for example, didn't confer an unfair advantage that was unavailable to the other teams. I'm simply arguing (a) not to ignore such advantages (I'm looking at you, Adam) and (b) to find ways to minimize such unfair advantages.

I couldn't possibly had a chance to ignore it or not, because it's apples and oranges, and not germane to this year's conversation. As mentioned a few times already, Penn State to Allentown is not close - Cornell is barely further, and an easier drive away. So to the extent I ignored this point in that article - it's because it's irrelevant. But really, it just never crossed my mind.

adamw

Swampy
Read some of the local newspapers from last year, when they wrote about how the Providence College team could use its advanced training facilities to recuperate between games, and how the coaching staff could use the technology and tools at their home disposal to breakdown films and otherwise strategize for the upcoming second-round game. In this day of modern technology and training methods, home teams that are serious enough to make the NCAA's have a tremendous advantage.

Unfortunately, the NC$$ is driven primarily by money. If it were otherwise, to level the playing field hosting teams making the tournament would automatically be located away from the host city. If the school is enthusiastic enough to host the event, its supporters should be enthusiastic enough to travel to the event.

Of course I realize there are counter arguments about attendance and the atmosphere. But there should be no denying that today's home-ice advantage in the national championship is not your father's home-ice advantage.

Allentown is hours from State College. No one is leaving Allentown to go train at their advanced home facilities.

Everything is driven by money. News flash.

Adam, we are not concerned about the future. We are still trying to re-litigate 2019 and the quote unfairness of the PC advantage. Ignore that the oldest farts among us still recall when Ned (using his first name means "I was there at the creation of the dynasty"] would have the guest locker room windows welded shut and then turn up the locker room heat to 85 degrees.

But, yes, one could argue that fairness says a host team playing in its home city now 2 hours away cannot sneak back to campus to use its facilities, the ones not available to the other teams. The team still has the advantage of getting its fans to the arena on local buses. If such a rule got passed by the NCAA governors / competition committees, would it lead to fewer schools interested in hosting a hockey or field hockey regional.

Swampy
The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

No love for Rochester?

jtwcornell91

Swampy
The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

No love for Rochester?

Rochester could be a great venue. Is there a chance RIT would host?

Syracuse hosts Bball with no hope of a home game so they find value in it and thats way more work than a hockey regional.

marty

jtwcornell91

Swampy
The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

No love for Rochester?

Rochester could be a great venue. Is there a chance RIT would host?

RIT did that in 2007 - only time the Regional was in Rochester. That was the year Jonathan Quick stood on his head and beat Clarkson 1-0.

upprdeck
Syracuse hosts Bball with no hope of a home game so they find value in it and thats way more work than a hockey regional.

And that let us play the Sweet Sixteen game an hour from campus.

adamw

marty

jtwcornell91

Swampy
The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

No love for Rochester?

Rochester could be a great venue. Is there a chance RIT would host?

RIT did that in 2007 - only time the Regional was in Rochester. That was the year Jonathan Quick stood on his head and beat Clarkson 1-0.

Did RIT host in Buffalo in 2003?

ugarte

adamw

marty

jtwcornell91

Swampy
The question about filling the War Memorial is a good one. But to answer it, we should compare it to Loveland, Allentown, and Albany. In any case, as I argued above, we should be able to host Albany, Buffalo, or Binghamton almost as well as Syracuse.

No love for Rochester?

Rochester could be a great venue. Is there a chance RIT would host?

RIT did that in 2007 - only time the Regional was in Rochester. That was the year Jonathan Quick stood on his head and beat Clarkson 1-0.

Did RIT host in Buffalo in 2003?

No, the 2003 hosts were the MAAC, Niagara University, and Canisius College. Not that I remember much after that event started.

Swampy

Yes, the PC team slept in a hotel. But they also went back to campus where they could use the "coaches offices, shooting room, ... meeting rooms, athletic training room, ... video boards, video ribbon boards, ... and a strength and conditioning facility"

Wow. A shooting room? Given our performance in shootouts, breakaways, and penalty shots, where can we get one of those?

all this worry and then we found out the games will be played with empty arenas

upprdeck
all this worry and then we found out the games will be played with empty arenas

As long as the ice is NHL width...

USCHO: Bracketology: Time ticking down on which teams will qualify for 2020 NCAA hockey tournament

Jayson's:

Loveland

1 North Dakota
6 Denver
11 Ohio State
16 Atlantic Hockey Champion

Allentown

2 Minnesota State
7 Penn State
12 Arizona State
15 Maine

Albany

3 Cornell
8 Massachusetts
10 Bemidji State
13 UMass Lowell

Worcester

4 Boston College
5 Minnesota Duluth
9 Clarkson
14 Quinnipiac

Jim's:

Loveland[/b]

1 North Dakota
6 Denver
11 Ohio State
16 Atlantic Hockey champion

Allentown

2 Minnesota State
7 Penn State
10 Bemidji State
15 Maine

Albany

3 Cornell
8 Massachusetts
9 Clarkson
13 UMass Lowell

Worcester

4 Boston College
5 Minnesota Duluth
12 Arizona State
14 Quinnipiac

Bemidji. What could go wrong?

Trotsky
Bemidji. What could go wrong?

thanks for the memories

Trotsky
Bemidji. What could go wrong?

I'm intrigued that Bemidji goaltender Matt Dalton took the L for that game and Cornell's Ben Scrivens won it, although for the teams it was the other way around.

[/smart-ass]

Jim Hyla
USCHO: Bracketology: Time ticking down on which teams will qualify for 2020 NCAA hockey tournament

Jayson's:

Loveland

1 North Dakota
6 Denver
11 Ohio State
16 Atlantic Hockey Champion

Allentown

2 Minnesota State
7 Penn State
12 Arizona State
15 Maine

Albany

3 Cornell
8 Massachusetts
10 Bemidji State
13 UMass Lowell

Worcester

4 Boston College
5 Minnesota Duluth
9 Clarkson
14 Quinnipiac

Jim's:

Loveland[/b]

1 North Dakota
6 Denver
11 Ohio State
16 Atlantic Hockey champion

Allentown

2 Minnesota State
7 Penn State
10 Bemidji State
15 Maine

Albany

3 Cornell
8 Massachusetts
9 Clarkson
13 UMass Lowell

Worcester

4 Boston College
5 Minnesota Duluth
12 Arizona State
14 Quinnipiac

This is amusing. I had North Dakota in Loveland for the last two weeks and now that I want to move N.D. to Allentown Jayson and Jim have moved them west.

Loveland

2 Minnesota State
6 Denver
12 Arizona State
15 Maine

Allentown

1 North Dakota
7 Penn State
10 Bemidji
16 AIC

Albany

3 Cornell
8 UMass
9 Clarkson
13 UMass Lowell

Worcester

4 Boston College
5 Minnesota Duluth
11 tOSu
14 Quinnipuck


My other scenario for seeding gives a potential second round 2 vs 6, 1 vs 7 and 3 vs 5 with Cornell playing Duluth. (It would move Duluth and tOSu to Albany with UMass and Clarkson in BridgeportWorcester).

It also gives BC an easier 4 vs 8 path to the finals. This would screw Cornell in a nod to NCAA seeding history guarantee a Bridgeport sell out. Bridgeport has been one of the cash cows since its first use as a regional location, which though true is irrelevant this year. The seeding I have above gives Cornell a theoretical advantage and I am thinking that the committee might give has often given that advantage to Hockey East instead other schools.

FMP

Give My Regards

Trotsky
Bemidji. What could go wrong?

I'm intrigued that Bemidji goaltender Matt Dalton took the L for that game and Cornell's Ben Scrivens won it, although for the teams it was the other way around.

[/smart-ass]

I'll fix it tonight smart-ass.