Fortress Invitational

Not too early to start thinking about this.

One point of concern is that our game against tOSU on 1/3/20 will be our first after a 27-day lay-off. Meanwhile, tOSU plays Colgate on 12/27 & 28, Providence plays LSSU and Union on those dates, and Army plays Robert Morris on 12/14 & 15 and New Hampshire on 12/29.

Let’s hope the lay-off Keeps us fresh, and intense practices help us fix some things like the PP. Let’s hope rust is not an issue.

I wish this tournament’s format were different. Instead of setting pairings before the season even begins, they should wait until Dec. 1 and then pair teams according to pwr: highest v lowest & 2nd highest v 3rd highest. This would create the likelihood of the two highest teams meeting for the tournament championship, rather than the current situation of having the two highest teams meeting in the opening round. It also would reward teams for their performance up until the December break period.

I'm OK with this result since we are guaranteed the test against the #6 in as "consequence free" an environment as we could.

It always seems like we end up behind the 8 ball with scheduling whether it be early season or after break.
A few examples. CU is the only team in the Vegas tourney to have not played a game since the break. Along with that.
we have played the fewest games to date in the entire country at 11 and the fewest home games at 4. It's understandable to
want to play two exhibition games prior to the start of the season since Ivy's are at a disadvantage out of the gate but wondering
if it would be wiser to play one early exhibition and one after the break to prepare for second half. We just seem to play on an
uneven playing field too much. Done whining. Go Red!

I can't find much from the schools, their papers, or the LV papers.

CBR posts:

Ohio State starts with:

and then posts:

Providence Friars hasn't yet posted anything.

Nor yet from West Point.

Nothing from the college newspapers.

Nothing yet from the Sun.

The OSU Lantern has nothing.

Providence College paper The Cowl has very little on their hockey team at all.

The U.S. Military Academy "Pointer View" is only through last semester.

Local papers are also blanking on news.

The IJ of course has nothing.

Columbus Dispatch: Zip

The Providence Journal only talks about past games.

West Point News has nothing.

LV Papers don't seem to have been promoting the games. Although admittedly I don't know anything about the LV papers.

Las Vegas Review-Journal mentions it back in August.

As did the LV Sun.

LV Herald doesn't seem to have a sports section.

Jim Hyla
I can't find much from the schools, their papers, or the LV papers.

CBR posts:

Ohio State starts with:

and then posts:

Providence Friars hasn't yet posted anything.

Nor yet from West Point.

Nothing from the college newspapers.

Nothing yet from the Sun.

The OSU Lantern has nothing.

Providence College paper The Cowl has very little on their hockey team at all.

The U.S. Military Academy "Pointer View" is only through last semester.

Local papers are also blanking on news.

The IJ of course has nothing.

Columbus Dispatch: Zip

The Providence Journal only talks about past games.

West Point News has nothing.

LV Papers don't seem to have been promoting the games. Although admittedly I don't know anything about the LV papers.

Las Vegas Review-Journal mentions it back in August.

As did the LV Sun.

LV Herald doesn't seem to have a sports section.

From the NHL: Las Vegas Set To Host "Fortress Invitational"

45-15-7: collective record of the field.

What is the least expensive way to watch this (on flo?)?

One month? Does one also need to opt out of auto-renewal?

i think flo only does 1 month thing but they might give you back some if you opt out early?

upprdeck
i think flo only does 1 month thing but they might give you back some if you opt out early?

flo does not do month to month, I don't think. it's all annual iirc. I'm a subscriber already so I haven't looked at the T&C in a while. I once signed up and they let me off the hook with a prorated rebate but I don't know if they're always that forgiving.

ugarte

upprdeck
i think flo only does 1 month thing but they might give you back some if you opt out early?

flo does not do month to month, I don't think. it's all annual iirc. I'm a subscriber already so I haven't looked at the T&C in a while. I once signed up and they let me off the hook with a prorated rebate but I don't know if they're always that forgiving.

They seem to have a plan that includes a month for $29.99: [www.flohockey.tv]

andyw2100

ugarte

upprdeck
i think flo only does 1 month thing but they might give you back some if you opt out early?

flo does not do month to month, I don't think. it's all annual iirc. I'm a subscriber already so I haven't looked at the T&C in a while. I once signed up and they let me off the hook with a prorated rebate but I don't know if they're always that forgiving.

They seem to have a plan that includes a month for $29.99: [www.flohockey.tv]

Although their site does not mention it, there’s also a Flo app for Android available on Amazon that apparently loads into Amazon Fire TV’s.

Flo has 2 plans $29.22/mo & $150.00/yr. The latter says it auto renews on the anniversary of the subscription or until the subscription is cancelled. It’s not clear about cancelling after only one month.

$5.29/month for ESPN+ and $29.22/month for Flo

something wrong with this picture....

Economies of scale and all that

Jason it is, then.

Here's what I could pick up this AM.

CHN on College Hockey This Week.

and highlighting Army's rise.

USCHO on the tourney and beyond,

followed by an article on OSU. Or is it TOSU?

Here's Flo Hockey's pretourney article.

Buckeye's pretourney.

PC posts here.

The Sun.

LV Review-Journal article on a LV Golden Knights prospect playing for PC.

LV Sun at least mentions that the tourney is something to do along with some other interesting events

adamw
$5.29/month for ESPN+ and $29.22/month for Flo

something wrong with this picture....

Economies of scale and all that

more like it's easier to squeeze people with narrower interests. i doubt the relative price of kosher meat is strictly proportional to the difference in slaughterhouse expenses.

just the fact that someone already is looking for cheaper way to watch a game shows that the price pt ESPN+ uses works better for someone watching 1-2 games a month. Why FLO doesnt have a one off game prices is crazy though for people who really only want to see 1 game OC,,

Still the $30 price is really for 2 Cornell games and at $15 a game thats about what most places charge for a single game. Its the price of a movie ticket so if you want to watch both games its not a real bad deal.

For the historians: is this the furthest from Ithaca Cornell has played a hockey game? I know we’ve been to Colorado many times. I guess it’s possible there was some special CA trip decades ago like Harvard just did, and we haven’t done the “Friendship Four” tournament in Ireland the ECAC is involved in.

I mean, we are getting closer to Vladivostok, and I’m still here, after all.

They played a winter break tourney at least once in Vancouver BC, I think in the 90s. That's about 400 miles further than Vegas.

I'm hoping that the new NHL team coming into Seattle sponsors a tourney like this and invites us to play. 20 minute bus ride for me.

Swampy

andyw2100

ugarte

upprdeck
i think flo only does 1 month thing but they might give you back some if you opt out early?

flo does not do month to month, I don't think. it's all annual iirc. I'm a subscriber already so I haven't looked at the T&C in a while. I once signed up and they let me off the hook with a prorated rebate but I don't know if they're always that forgiving.

They seem to have a plan that includes a month for $29.99: [www.flohockey.tv]

Although their site does not mention it, there’s also a Flo app for Android available on Amazon that apparently loads into Amazon Fire TV’s.

Flo has 2 plans $29.22/mo & $150.00/yr. The latter says it auto renews on the anniversary of the subscription or until the subscription is cancelled. It’s not clear about cancelling after only one month.

I just bought a month and installed the FLO ROKU app and I am watching period 2 of the UNH at PSU women's hockey game. When I was in the payment process it warned me about auto-renewal.

They offer plenty of games to watch before the 8 PM start in Las Vegas.

Chris H82
They played a winter break tourney at least once in Vancouver BC, I think in the 90s. That's about 400 miles further than Vegas.

Yes, took a little bit playing with the TBRW generator, but Jan 3-5, 1986 they beat British Columbia, Seibu-Japan, and Yale in Vancouver. Good call, thanks. Probably only Yale wasn’t an exhibition

I also just purchased a month of Flo access. I then immediately looked for a way to prevent the next monthly charge. The way to accomplish this is to cancel your subscription. On the last screen before cancellation it warns that you will lose access after February 3, which is fine. (I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't lose access immediately.)

There's no reason not to cancel immediately. If for some reason you change your mind and want to continue after a month you can just subscribe again. It's a better approach than forgetting about it and being hit with a $30 charge because you forgot you had started a recurring payment subscription.

How best to follow the game if I do not want to pay for Flo? Is anyone going to be on slack-chat tonight?

KenP
How best to follow the game if I do not want to pay for Flo? Is anyone going to be on slack-chat tonight?

I believe WHCU is covering it: [player.listenlive.co]. Wait until the Cornell game starts (~ 11:30 ET), because I doubt WHCU is covering the Army/PC game. If you start listening now, you're liable to get reactionary talk radio, like Rush Lame-O.

Great article on the invitational but really about Darren Eliot:

[www.reviewjournal.com]

Looks like barring some sort of military miracle Providence will advance to the final.

Warm-ups? Maybe it was worth $30.

marty
Warm-ups? Maybe it was worth $30.

Yeah but you're missing the crazy country western dance competition that's also live. It's really... Something.

The Berard goal was so goddamn good. Locke should get a tertiary assist. Three perfect passes and a clean finish.

Steinburg had a really pretty toe drag that he almost covered with 20 seconds left.

Galajda looks great. Buckeyes had a lot more jump as the period wore on but Cornell was playing solid positional defense and kept disrupting OSU's passing. Solid first period against a good team.

Note to self: watch the replay for Beeeej and friends reaction shot after the second goal.

Hell of a day for the freshmen. A pair for Berard and one for Steinburg. Really liking the way Berard makes himself available for passes from behind the goal.

Steinburg just sent off on a major and... idgi. Didn't seem that bad except for the size differential. The guy hit his head on the glass but that didn't seem intentional.

Killed off the first 1:30 and the Red is up 3-0 after 2.

ugarte
Note to self: watch the replay for Beeeej and friends reaction shot after the second goal.

Also after 4th goal.

abmarks

ugarte
Note to self: watch the replay for Beeeej and friends reaction shot after the second goal.

Also after 4th goal.

indeed.

great game.

first goal against was a really sloppy pass from Cairns. second was a crazy 6 on 5 scramble that somehow Galajda didn't cover in the crease. In his defense there were 14 guys in the crease with him.

Mullin's rebound was sharp and it was good to get the quick empty netter from Bauld after we lost the shutout.

Goddamn it's late!

abmarks

ugarte
Note to self: watch the replay for Beeeej and friends reaction shot after the second goal.

Also after 4th goal.

Ahh, they were sitting over on the end. Easy to spot!

That should help when selection comes around.

Cornell now 0.0002 behind North Dakota in RPI. NoDak plays (60) UAH Saturday.

According to CHN we are just 2 10,000th of a point behind North Dakota in the pairwise after the win.

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

1 North Dakota 59 .6549
2 Cornell 58 .6547

Edit: I see Chris beat me to this by a couple of minutes!

FYI, Andreev did not play as he got sick this afternoon.
Berard took his place on the first powerplay unit and Stienburg dressed in Max's place to fill out the line-up.
So the Hockey Gods or our depth as a team helped greatly on the first two goals.
Noah Bauld was great defensively all game.
Mike mentioned in the pre-game reception that he likes to have the Bauld-Betts-Mulllin line out against the other team's best line, but we were the visiting team tonight so he couldn't match up that way most of the time.

jkahn
FYI, Andreev did not play as he got sick this afternoon.
Berard took his place on the first powerplay unit and Stienburg dressed in Max's place to fill out the line-up.
So the Hockey Gods or our depth as a team helped greatly on the first two goals.
Noah Bauld was great defensively all game.
Mike mentioned in the pre-game reception that he likes to have the Bauld-Betts-Mulllin line out against the other team's best line, but we were the visiting team tonight so he couldn't match up that way most of the time.

Thanks. Will we be the visiting team tomorrow? Did Max just come down with the common cold? We could really use him tomorrow.

thought other than the bad TO after we went up 4-0 and then some sloppy play late we controlled the game well.

OSU we let turn the corner a few times in the last 10 min.

not sure about the major either.. he was not really that far off the board when he got hit. The OSU one later was a much more dangerous check

Solid game for a month off.

pfibiger
Great article on the invitational but really about Darren Eliot:

[www.reviewjournal.com]

Don’t miss the video clip about the best college hockey venue.

Swampy

pfibiger
Great article on the invitational but really about Darren Eliot:

[www.reviewjournal.com]

Don’t miss the video clip about the best college hockey venue.

Even Barry Melrose is right twice every...

USCHO

Not about CU, but interesting in Review-Journal.

The video: Foley says West Point values have carried over to Golden Knights – VIDEO

and the written: Mention ‘Army’ and Golden Knights’ Bill Foley beams with pride

CBR

TOSU

Friars

West Point

Unnamed is Dick Bertrand in the patter between Darren Eliot and "the other guy" who seemed not to want to do PBP last night. It starts at the 4 hour 47 plus minute mark of the two game - one long video - broadcast. This lasts until about the 4 hour 56 minute mark. Darren talks about getting his shot at regular goal tending when Brian Hayward contracted mono. The conversation moves to Bertrand deciding that after alternating goalies for Eliot's sophomore year he decided that Hayward would be THE goalie his senior (Eliot's junior) year. Nice story and the silver lining to the PBP guy not doing his job.

As an aside, I was able to sync the WHCU audio to the video and missed this last night. But it is thanks to the Slack chat comment on this conversation for my realization that I should replay this. And thanks to Art for point out that it was coach Bertrand that Darren was speaking of.

I paused the video on ROKU to sync Jason's audio. I think (but didn't verify this last night because I was in sync) that one can also pause the audio to make the sync if you choose to use TuneIn on your phone or tablet to listen to the WHCU stream.

marty
Unnamed is Dick Bertrand in the patter between Darren Eliot and "the other guy" who seemed not to want to do PBP last night. It starts at the 4 hour 47 plus minute mark of the two game - one long video - broadcast. This lasts until about the 4 hour 56 minute mark. Darren talks about getting his shot at regular goal tending when Brian Hayward contracted mono. The conversation moves to Bertrand deciding that after alternating goalies for Eliot's sophomore year he decided that Hayward would be THE goalie his senior (Eliot's junior) year. Nice story and the silver lining to the PBP guy not doing his job.

...

It took me quite a while to realize both games were behind the single graphic, which only showed Army & PC logos. But once I realized it, I also realized I’d have to FF to search for the OSU/Cornell game. While doing so, about midway through and almost an hour before the game, one can hear two commentators discussing what “a pain in the ass” it is to live adjacent to a golf course and how golfers would get pissed when the commentators’ dogs barked.

As a dog-owner but non-golfer, I found this more enlightening than lots of sports commentary. Never buy a house on a golf course!

Swampy
But once I realized it, I also realized I’d have to FF to search for the OSU/Cornell game. While doing so, about midway through and almost an hour before the game, one can hear two commentators discussing what “a pain in the ass” it is to live adjacent to a golf course and how golfers would get pissed when the commentators’ dogs barked.

As a dog-owner but non-golfer, I found this more enlightening than lots of sports commentary. Never buy a house on a golf course!

I chuckled at this conversation too, but I'm pretty sure it took place just after the audio went live, which was just before the player introductions. I had left the video feed up after the Providence-Army game, and there was no audio for most of the time between games.

Quote from the OSU coach on the OSU Athletics game story:

“To me, the bottom line is we found out what it’s like to work hard. Facing Cornell is basically a one-on-one hockey game, and we lost a lot of the one-on-one battles. It was a compete game tonight and we didn’t have enough of it. That’s a really good hockey team over there.”

Important Heads Up: Tonight's final is the First Game, at 5:30 Pacific with the Consolation game to follow.

jkahn
Important Heads Up: Tonight's final is the First Game, at 5:30 Pacific with the Consolation game to follow.

Yeah we had to move around a dinner reservation, having assumed the championship game was the late game.

While we had a couple unforced errors last night, OSU has faaar more. If you asked me which team hadn't played in a month, I would have guessed them. Their passing was especially sloppy.

Good to see the cowbell and the "so and so called, they said" guys again!

jkahn
Important Heads Up: Tonight's final is the First Game, at 5:30 Pacific with the Consolation game to follow.

Thanks. It's almost impossible to find out the time from the FI web site since it just lumps the Championship and Consolation rounds together.

To add to my earlier kvetching about having the two highest-ranked teams playing each other in the first round, how about having them play the late game the first day, followed by the early game the next? In my book, teams that EARN the higher ranking before the tournament (and arguably can be expected to play the more difficult game because their opponents are tougher) ought to have the benefit of a longer time to recuperate between games.

I haven't been this stoked about Big Red Hockey in 50 years. GRIN!

Cornell was fabulous the first two periods against Ohio State. A couple mistakes in the third. Would have rather had it end 3-0 than 5-2. I was hoping for the same six-point MOV as Clemson put up on the Buckeyes six days previously.

Swampy

jkahn
Important Heads Up: Tonight's final is the First Game, at 5:30 Pacific with the Consolation game to follow.

Thanks. It's almost impossible to find out the time from the FI web site since it just lumps the Championship and Consolation rounds together.

To add to my earlier kvetching about having the two highest-ranked teams playing each other in the first round, how about having them play the late game the first day, followed by the early game the next? In my book, teams that EARN the higher ranking before the tournament (and arguably can be expected to play the more difficult game because their opponents are tougher) ought to have the benefit of a longer time to recuperate between games.

I'm okay with playing tOSU right off the bat because I don't really care about the tournament itself so much as the chance to play good opponents, but yeah, this is silly.

The TOSU player did go into the boards and his head hit first. It wasn't super-violent. It gives Stienburg something to think about not doing. It didn't affect the outcome.

Before the game, Mike Schafer spoke to the fans who took part in the pre-game reception. He said (and I missed some points when I was fetching a hot dog and mac & cheese for my all-you-can-eat/drink $50 and was behind the loudspeakers):
* MSG hockey fall 2020 will be Yale. Be so nice to see BC there. We've already done Penn State and Michigan, you want a big school with a sizable NYC alumni contingent. Maybe Wisconsin, they have hockey-crazed fans.
* North Dakota plays at Lynah. (Did I hear that right? Are we finally getting respect?)
* AIC (American International, the one in a lousy section of Springfield Mass., not American University in DC) plays.
* He does not expect Morgan Barron to be back for his senior year. I don't think that's a news flash.
* Schafer continues to hope the Ivies (Cornell at least) would emulate Stanford and go even bigger-time, with scholarships. And he'd like to see the teams play more games. Our son, an athletic trainer at a Connecticut prep school, says his school's U15 team (a HS w/ 4 hockey teams!) is something like 40-6 as of the end of year, vs. Cornell's 10-1 total games played. I know junior teams play way more games and so do non-ECAC teams, but still the difference is crazy. We could have played at least one game the weekend after Christmas, maybe one after exams ended assuming there was still something of a practice schedule.

Ohio State coach Steve Rohlik (Wisconsin '90), is making $440,000, salary and benefits. (Is Schafer making half that?) TOSU athletics budget of $110M is highest in the country.) Schafer made a joke about the LV tourney being good for him as he gets older so he can see retirement communities that are affordable. And then next year we play at (at a tourney at?) Arizona State. (We will not be back at Fortress Invitational 2021 if there is one; this is year 3 I believe.) He's also seen the Gulf Coast of Florida via the Estero tournaments.

Not noted among the contributions of the Cornell freshmen: Lucky #13 Jack Malone got to serve the 5-minute major penalty (& game misconduct) incurred by freshman Matt Stienburg (1G, 15 PIM). They also serve who sit for five.

If you buy a ticket, the box office wants to see a license, a credit card, and an email address, which the guy checks (mine came back as me being from Fort Worth, TX, FWIW), and then he prints out 2 8.5x11 sheets of paper, you sign one, you get one, and about 5 minutes later the next in line can buy a ticket.

Attendance was cited as 3735, or 0.21 of 17,500 T-Mobile Arena capacity. I think Cornell was the 3000 part. The upper level was draped, except for the corner with the Golden Knight, ah, statue or wall relief. TOSU had a rent-a-band. So did we using Desert Pines HS BUT Cornell had the Big Red alumni pep band, too. At least Cornell made the effort. (see photo)

Dafatone

Swampy

jkahn
Important Heads Up: Tonight's final is the First Game, at 5:30 Pacific with the Consolation game to follow.

Thanks. It's almost impossible to find out the time from the FI web site since it just lumps the Championship and Consolation rounds together.

To add to my earlier kvetching about having the two highest-ranked teams playing each other in the first round, how about having them play the late game the first day, followed by the early game the next? In my book, teams that EARN the higher ranking before the tournament (and arguably can be expected to play the more difficult game because their opponents are tougher) ought to have the benefit of a longer time to recuperate between games.

I'm okay with playing tOSU right off the bat because I don't really care about the tournament itself so much as the chance to play good opponents, but yeah, this is silly.

Yeah, but a bit of bad puck luck against #2 can pit #1 against the weakest team instead of #3.

And if you read about the home-field advantages Providence, the #4 seed in the Providence Regional, had last spring, when they kicked our ass and Minnesota State’s (to a lesser degree), you’d understand why I don’t want them to have any more unfair advantages. Admittedly, we were also decimated by injuries last spring, so maybe our relative health (Andreev’s illness sucks) combined with PC’s losses to the pros, will make up for their extra rest and the relative ease of playing Army. But tonight’s time for payback, and I don’t want any more administrative bullshit to get in the way.

billhoward
The TOSU player did go into the boards and his head hit first. It wasn't super-violent. It gives Stienburg something to think about not doing. It didn't affect the outcome.

The other thing was that Stienburg didn't run straight at him. He crouched a bit as he skated in and came up at him, almost as if he was about to leave his feet and jump at him. He didn't but it was close.

SLB 4 LVK 4 w/ 3 to go in the 3rd. Don’t count on Cornell-Providence starting on time.

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
The TOSU player did go into the boards and his head hit first. It wasn't super-violent. It gives Stienburg something to think about not doing. It didn't affect the outcome.

The other thing was that Stienburg didn't run straight at him. He crouched a bit as he skated in and came up at him, almost as if he was about to leave his feet and jump at him. He didn't but it was close.

You see the kid from BU who goes into the boards 11 seconds into his college career (Travis Roy, 1995, who tussled with a North Dakota player and lost his balance without being pushed in) and is paralyzed, you can see why the referees err on the side of penalizing anything that a play that appears marginally aggressive. And if you know the referees call the close ones ...

Video: [www.cnn.com]

billhoward

* North Dakota plays at Lynah. (Did I hear that right? Are we finally getting respect?)

It's old news Bill. UND played at Lynah in 2010. We went there the year before.

Not that I like them, or some things about them, but they do have the reputation of traveling anywhere and doing home and away equally. Last year they were at Canisius.

Even though Cornell got the short end of the stick this tournament, I do not think mid-season tournament pairings or scheduling should be determined by ranking. Human rankings are subjective and based on too small a sample size, and PWR are also based on too small a sample size. Cornell had played 11 games coming into the tournament and only three out of conference. That is not enough games to definitively assign them a seed or game-time based on their ranking.

BearLover
Even though Cornell got the short end of the stick this tournament, I do not think mid-season tournament pairings or scheduling should be determined by ranking. Human rankings are subjective and based on too small a sample size, and PWR are also based on too small a sample size. Cornell had played 11 games coming into the tournament and only three out of conference. That is not enough games to definitively assign them a seed or game-time based on their ranking.

But what’s the alternative?

Swampy

BearLover
Even though Cornell got the short end of the stick this tournament, I do not think mid-season tournament pairings or scheduling should be determined by ranking. Human rankings are subjective and based on too small a sample size, and PWR are also based on too small a sample size. Cornell had played 11 games coming into the tournament and only three out of conference. That is not enough games to definitively assign them a seed or game-time based on their ranking.

But what’s the alternative?

Assigning seeds/schedules randomly. Isn't that what they did here? (Also, if early season results count towards midseason tournament seeds, and midseason tournaments count towards end-of-year ranking, that means early season games are double-counted to some degree.)

So much for momentum...

great 6x5 goal from barron to tie. I want to see the near miss from haiskanen again in three closing seconds but I doubt that he does.

this is a pwr tie, right?

Yes it's a tie

Cop at Lynah
Yes it's a tie

So how are ties reflected in PWR?

Dafatone
So much for momentum...

But maybe a lesson about the risk of taking penalties in close games.

Cornell played well. The five-minute major was tough and too hard to determine whether it was the right call based on the webcast angle. Up to that point, Cornell had really been controlling the play.

Fair to say on the basis of individual skill, Providence was superior? I think Cornell is generally a well-structured, well-trained team but finds it hard to compete in terms of raw talent (penalty shootout for example) I thought all Cornell shootout shots were very easy to save. no deking whatsoever.

blackwidow
Fair to say on the basis of individual skill, Providence was superior? I think Cornell is generally a well-structured, well-trained team but finds it hard to compete in terms of raw talent (penalty shootout for example)

Yes. Providence has far better talent. Cornell plays a smart system and its players are older and stronger than Providence's, but on an individual talent basis Providence is probably a top-five program in the country.

went to the last year's NCAA game against Providence. Glad the team held their own against a worthy opponent. It's games like this one that remind me I must keep my expectations for the team in check. I get too worked up sometimes :/

BearLover

blackwidow
Fair to say on the basis of individual skill, Providence was superior? I think Cornell is generally a well-structured, well-trained team but finds it hard to compete in terms of raw talent (penalty shootout for example)

Yes. Providence has far better talent. Cornell plays a smart system and its players are older and stronger than Providence's, but on an individual talent basis Providence is probably a top-five program in the country.

Everyone talks about that and how they are taller, but now (finally) looking for speed.

Well by CHN tables, PC players average 85 days younger, 1 inch shorter, and 1.6 pounds lighter. So that's older and stronger? You're going to tell me that those numbers are that much different, as to make a difference.

I think some pundits (This is not meant to single you out BearLover) are still back with the teams from 8-10 years ago and are forgetting that we are a completely different team, playing a different style of play than before. That means our players are also different.

There were two tiers of talent in Las Vegas:

1. Jack Dugan and Morgan Barron
2. Other

I didn't see PU being superior in talent.

Swampy

Dafatone
So much for momentum...

But maybe a lesson about the risk of taking penalties in close games.

Penalties are bad. I wasn't watching, only listening, so I can't speak to the call itself.

But a review shouldn't be over ten minutes.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

blackwidow
Fair to say on the basis of individual skill, Providence was superior? I think Cornell is generally a well-structured, well-trained team but finds it hard to compete in terms of raw talent (penalty shootout for example)

Yes. Providence has far better talent. Cornell plays a smart system and its players are older and stronger than Providence's, but on an individual talent basis Providence is probably a top-five program in the country.

Everyone talks about that and how they are taller, but now (finally) looking for speed.

Well by CHN tables, PC players average 85 days younger, 1 inch shorter, and 1.6 pounds lighter. So that's older and stronger? You're going to tell me that those numbers are that much different, as to make a difference.

I think some pundits (This is not meant to single you out BearLover) are still back with the teams from 8-10 years ago and are forgetting that we are a completely different team, playing a different style of play than before. That means our players are also different.

Per the CHN tables, Cornell is the tallest team in the country. Point taken on the age/pound differential. Cornell has very few seniors on this year's team, so I believe the age gap isn't as great this season. (Providence also has only a couple of seniors, but that's because they had five players leave early last year.) My basis for saying Providence is younger is that, looking at their top players, they mostly played one year of junior hockey before matriculating, whereas the average Cornell player typically plays two years of juniors.

Not much out there.

CBR

Friars

At least the LV papers covered it. But if Dugan wasn't such a hero you wonder what they would have done.

Las Vegas Review-Journal

LV Sun

Providence did a good job on PK, moving the forwards out closer to the blue line, sticks out, and disrupted Cornell's PP. They matched up against Cornell better than Ohio State. Maybe our team shares the distaste for a school that feels compelled to put The in front of Ohio State University.

This team is the best contender for the final four since 2003. We need Morgan Barron to be healthy. Stay aggressive without taking two majors per weekend.

A ten minute review of anything is inexcusable. Hopefully there is some reworking done on the review for a major penalty procedure the next time rules can be addressed. For me, if the refs don’t have an immediate “My god, how did we both miss that blatantly obvious major!” reaction to the replay in the first moments of seeing it, there shouldn’t be a penalty retroactively called.

The Sun

I already posted the link to the article, but thoght that this quote needed posting.

From LV Review-Journal
“Going back to last year in the regionals, we had a tough game against them, and then for whatever reason, they always bring their fans out to us,” Dugan said. “I knew that they wouldn’t like that too much. I kind of thought of it in the moment.”

Does he really think that PC is the reason CU fans were there? Talk about feeling high on yourself.

I don't tweet, but someone should tell him it doesn't have anything to do with him or PC. Maybe we should invite him to Lynah.

CHN

USCHO

Jim Hyla
The Sun

I already posted the link to the article, but thoght that this quote needed posting.

From LV Review-Journal
“Going back to last year in the regionals, we had a tough game against them, and then for whatever reason, they always bring their fans out to us,” Dugan said. “I knew that they wouldn’t like that too much. I kind of thought of it in the moment.”

Does he really think that PC is the reason CU fans were there? Talk about feeling high on yourself.

I don't tweet, but someone should tell him it doesn't have anything to do with him or PC. Maybe we should invite him to Lynah.

CHN

USCHO

While it is a little irksome to me, especially since our fans were mostly positive all weekend, the fact that his first instinct wasn’t to look to his teammates to celebrate, but rather to taunt us means that we’re still doing our job. The Cornell support was massive and noticeable, and clearly got under some skin on the PC bench.

Anyway, he just lost my oh-so-important TBRW vote for “most respected opponent,” so neener-neener on you, dude. Enjoy your tiny trophy.

RichH

Jim Hyla
The Sun

I already posted the link to the article, but thoght that this quote needed posting.

From LV Review-Journal
“Going back to last year in the regionals, we had a tough game against them, and then for whatever reason, they always bring their fans out to us,” Dugan said. “I knew that they wouldn’t like that too much. I kind of thought of it in the moment.”

Does he really think that PC is the reason CU fans were there? Talk about feeling high on yourself.

I don't tweet, but someone should tell him it doesn't have anything to do with him or PC. Maybe we should invite him to Lynah.

CHN

USCHO

While it is a little irksome to me, especially since our fans were mostly positive all weekend, the fact that his first instinct wasn’t to look to his teammates to celebrate, but rather to taunt us means that we’re still doing our job. The Cornell support was massive and noticeable, and clearly got under some skin on the PC bench.

Anyway, he just lost my oh-so-important TBRW vote for “most respected opponent,” so neener-neener on you, dude. Enjoy your tiny trophy.

Good point.

billhoward
Providence did a good job on PK, moving the forwards out closer to the blue line, sticks out, and disrupted Cornell's PP. They matched up against Cornell better than Ohio State. Maybe our team shares the distaste for a school that feels compelled to put The in front of Ohio State University.

This team is the best contender for the final four since 2003. We need Morgan Barron to be healthy. Stay aggressive without taking two majors per weekend.

What I said at one point during the game was that PC had really active sticks on defense. It made us look sloppy.

As to penalty reviews (all reviews for that matter), there should be a time limit. If they can't make a decision in five minutes, the play stands as called on the ice. Move along.

Jim Hyla

Does he really think that PC is the reason CU fans were there? Talk about feeling high on yourself.

I don't tweet, but someone should tell him it doesn't have anything to do with him or PC. Maybe we should invite him to Lynah.

tbh it sounds like a mangled quote and he was making the point that Cornell fans ride the opposing players hard.

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward
Providence did a good job on PK, moving the forwards out closer to the blue line, sticks out, and disrupted Cornell's PP. They matched up against Cornell better than Ohio State. Maybe our team shares the distaste for a school that feels compelled to put The in front of Ohio State University.

This team is the best contender for the final four since 2003. We need Morgan Barron to be healthy. Stay aggressive without taking two majors per weekend.

What I said at one point during the game was that PC had really active sticks on defense. It made us look sloppy.

Providence did the same thing to us last spring in the regionals. We need to be prepared for this as we progress through March.

Watching the game I thought we were becoming fatigued, what with playing the late game the previous evening and having to kill two majors literally in less than a day. Leaman said he thought his team got better as the game went on. I think a major reason for this was that we got worse (tired). The second period is usually our strongest period because we usually tire out the opponent during the first half of the game and take advantage of them during the 2nd period; we then gain a lead and defend it very well. But the major took away almost 25% of the the second period and gave them the lead. We played from behind and just did not seem to have
the zip and sharpness they had during the OSU game and in the first period against Providence.

Swampy

Watching the game I thought we were becoming fatigued, what with playing the late game the previous evening and having to kill two majors literally in less than a day.

I agree, though it is hard to determine this while watching a broadcast. It also made the extra attacker goal that much more impressive.

Trotsky
There were two tiers of talent in Las Vegas:

1. Jack Dugan and Morgan Barron
2. Other

I didn't see PU being superior in talent.

They are - but that's fine. The better comparison is Barron to Tyce Thompson. Thompson is a monster. Dugan is off by himself skill wise. Then you add in Parker Ford, a very skilled center who came off the plane from the World Juniors to play Saturday, and dominated the faceoff circle, and was tough to handle.

Cornell is deeper (this year) - and has a slightly better goalie. These are two of the best teams in the country - mirror images to a large extent, at least coaching wise, and I hope to hell Cornell doesn't have to play them again in the NCAAs unless it's the championship game.

I wonder how much the 3-1/2-hour time difference makes. You can't just go back and look to history if a tournament 1-seed is the one playing the earlier game. Could Providence be - is this heresy? - better-conditioned? Was Providence the better team?

An unfair advantage from a generation ago was the NCAAs had the semifinals Thursday (1-seed) and Friday, then the title game Saturday.

adamw

Trotsky
There were two tiers of talent in Las Vegas:

1. Jack Dugan and Morgan Barron
2. Other

I didn't see PU being superior in talent.

They are - but that's fine. The better comparison is Barron to Tyce Thompson. Thompson is a monster. Dugan is off by himself skill wise. Then you add in Parker Ford, a very skilled center who came off the plane from the World Juniors to play Saturday, and dominated the faceoff circle, and was tough to handle.

Cornell is deeper (this year) - and has a slightly better goalie. These are two of the best teams in the country - mirror images to a large extent, at least coaching wise, and I hope to hell Cornell doesn't have to play them again in the NCAAs unless it's the championship game.

Usually we hold our own on faceoffs, but PU, and especially Ford, dominated us at the dot. If we play them again we'll need to do better. I believe Andreev is pretty solid on faceoffs (I don't have time right now to look it up), so his absence may have really hurt us on Saturday.

Since anything beyond the first OT wasn't official, I think the tournament officials should have had more fun with it. Maybe have them play broomball for an OT, and play with multiple pucks. Live a little!

French Rage
Since anything beyond the first OT wasn't official, I think the tournament officials should have had more fun with it. Maybe have them play broomball for an OT, and play with multiple pucks. Live a little!

Go across the plaza and play a deck of Casino War. Makes as much sense as a shootout.

Cannot help but wonder how likely it is for Barron to go pro after this season. I so badly want him to stay :/

blackwidow
Cannot help but wonder how likely it is for Barron to go pro after this season. I so badly want him to stay :/

It only makes sense for him to stay if the Rangers have some super bottleneck and tell him to.

scoop85

adamw

Trotsky
There were two tiers of talent in Las Vegas:

1. Jack Dugan and Morgan Barron
2. Other

I didn't see PU being superior in talent.

They are - but that's fine. The better comparison is Barron to Tyce Thompson. Thompson is a monster. Dugan is off by himself skill wise. Then you add in Parker Ford, a very skilled center who came off the plane from the World Juniors to play Saturday, and dominated the faceoff circle, and was tough to handle.

Cornell is deeper (this year) - and has a slightly better goalie. These are two of the best teams in the country - mirror images to a large extent, at least coaching wise, and I hope to hell Cornell doesn't have to play them again in the NCAAs unless it's the championship game.

Usually we hold our own on faceoffs, but PU, and especially Ford, dominated us at the dot. If we play them again we'll need to do better. I believe Andreev is pretty solid on faceoffs (I don't have time right now to look it up), so his absence may have really hurt us on Saturday.

Faceoff stats. Andreev is actually one of our weaker faceoff guys.

USCHO's TMQ Column with the following quote.

Jim
It was ironic to me that the two teams that play in a league without 3-on-3 overtime or shootouts ended up playing in such a situation for the tournament’s championship. I will say that neither coach – Providence’s Nate Leaman and Cornell’s Mike Schafer – enjoyed the title game being decided in a shootout. Both said they would have preferred playing overtime until there was a winner.

And this:

Paula
I agree with both Leaman and Schafer. Have the teams play until there’s a winner during in-season tournament play. I know that fans find a shootout thrilling, but they find fighting thrilling, too, and no one is making an argument for more fighting in college hockey just to make the game more exciting to fans.

Jim Hyla
USCHO's TMQ Column with the following quote.


And this:

Paula
I agree with both Leaman and Schafer. Have the teams play until there’s a winner during in-season tournament play. I know that fans find a shootout thrilling, but they find fighting thrilling, too, and no one is making an argument for more fighting in college hockey just to make the game more exciting to fans.

I must be the exception. I don't find fighting OR shootouts to be thrilling! Shootouts are an abomination to hockey. This is a team game; shootouts are individual efforts. It makes no sense!

Trotsky

blackwidow
Cannot help but wonder how likely it is for Barron to go pro after this season. I so badly want him to stay :/

It only makes sense for him to stay if the Rangers have some super bottleneck and tell him to.

The story I got was he's of really mixed feelings. But I'd be shocked if he stays.

redice

Jim Hyla
USCHO's TMQ Column with the following quote.


And this:

Paula
I agree with both Leaman and Schafer. Have the teams play until there’s a winner during in-season tournament play. I know that fans find a shootout thrilling, but they find fighting thrilling, too, and no one is making an argument for more fighting in college hockey just to make the game more exciting to fans.

I must be the exception. I don't find fighting OR shootouts to be thrilling! Shootouts are an abomination to hockey. This is a team game; shootouts are individual efforts. It makes no sense!

+1

redice

Jim Hyla
USCHO's TMQ Column with the following quote.


And this:

Paula
I agree with both Leaman and Schafer. Have the teams play until there’s a winner during in-season tournament play. I know that fans find a shootout thrilling, but they find fighting thrilling, too, and no one is making an argument for more fighting in college hockey just to make the game more exciting to fans.

I must be the exception. I don't find fighting OR shootouts to be thrilling! Shootouts are an abomination to hockey. This is a team game; shootouts are individual efforts. It makes no sense!

You are not the exception. The few remaining fans who like fighting can DIAF and the people who like shootouts are either under 12 years old or football fans who wandered into the wrong venue.

Jim Hyla
USCHO's TMQ Column with the following quote.

Jim
It was ironic to me that the two teams that play in a league without 3-on-3 overtime or shootouts ended up playing in such a situation for the tournament’s championship. I will say that neither coach – Providence’s Nate Leaman and Cornell’s Mike Schafer – enjoyed the title game being decided in a shootout. Both said they would have preferred playing overtime until there was a winner.

And this:

Paula
I agree with both Leaman and Schafer. Have the teams play until there’s a winner during in-season tournament play. I know that fans find a shootout thrilling, but they find fighting thrilling, too, and no one is making an argument for more fighting in college hockey just to make the game more exciting to fans.

Which is why the championship game should be the 2nd game. Let them play to a winner.