ECAC FANS

I'm a student at Clarkson and as a project for one of my classes I'm making a web site containing information on the ECAC teams from a fans perspective. Instead of focusing on the teams, it will present information for fans such as describing the rink/atmosphere, common cheers and chants, what to yell during player introductions, after a goal, for penalties, at the one minute mark of a period, at the end of a game that you win, etc. On the flip side I also want to have chants and cheers that you can use against other teams. If you have any information about your team or other teams can you either post here or email me at waldenbe@clarkson.edu. Pretend I know nothing about your team and tell me anything you can. You'll get credit on the site for any information that you submit. The site is purely for academic purposes for my web design class and won't ever be used commercially.

Thanks for all your help and I'll see you all Saturday,
Brian Walden
waldenbe@clarkson.edu

If you found your way here, you already have at your fingertips more Cornell hockey knowledge than any individual possesses - look around and have fun.

Exactly!!!

Check our links, but you must make your results available to us since we made it so easy for you.

I'd be willing to bet (though you're welcome to correct me, Brian) that Mr. Walden dropped in here, made his request, and will not be returning to see our posted replies, since he gave us his e-mail address.

Beeeej

I emailed him and told him to check out the cheers page Hayes typed up (off of eLynah's main page).

Eh...I'm always suspicious of this sort of thing. I have no reason to doubt it's for a class, but a comprehensive list of everything opposing fans do would also give a fan (or well-traveled, creative band member) time to analyze and think of ways to defeat various cheers for every rink. I think our responses here are just fine. Let him do the work himself.

And yes, I think I'm paranoid too.

Fuck. I very explicitly went out of my way to *not* tell him as I don't want him violating my copyright. Also, I'm with Rich, I'd rather not make it too easy for opposing fans to do evil dastardly things....

There I go again... screwing up trying to be nice.

Sorry guys.

Posting things on the web isn't a very effective way to keep them secret.

No, I'm here and checking up on the postings. You Ivies really underestimate the rest of the world

Jeffrey "Beeeej" Anbinder '94 wrote:

I'd be willing to bet (though you're welcome to correct me, Brian) that Mr. Walden dropped in here, made his request, and will not be returning to see our posted replies, since he gave us his e-mail address.

Beeeej

Whether or not he is actually doing a school project, he does seem to be the former floozie of the Clarkson Band as noted here:
[pub35.bravenet.com]

One would also expect that he would post to the USCHO board for a look at ECAC fandom as a whole rather than just material that would be directed his way on Saturday.

Perhaps I am paranoid as well.

I'm not underestimating you. Just assuming since you provided an e-mail address that you didn't anticipate a discussion taking place here. As I noted previously, I'm delighted to be shown wrong.

(Just do the same thing in Italy, please!)

Beeeej

He did post it on USCHO first....

Chris Parkin '03 wrote:

Whether or not he is actually doing a school project, he does seem to be the former floozie of the Clarkson Band as noted here:
[pub35.bravenet.com]

One would also expect that he would post to the USCHO board for a look at ECAC fandom as a whole rather than just material that would be directed his way on Saturday.

Perhaps I am paranoid as well.

Eh, you were just looking for another excuse to point out that the Clarkson Band has an officer called "floozie".

Yes I am the current Floozie (Social Chair) of the Clarkson Pep Band. Yes I know about copywrite, and won't take any information off of the cheers page of the site without first asking the webmaster. I originally posted this same request on the USCHO message board, you can go and look there yourselves. The reason I also posted here is because one of your fans sent me an email saying that I should. And since Cornell has one of the strongest followings in college hockey I was hoping that your fans would know about or have contacts to other team's fans. I also posted on the Clarkson Hockey Roundtable asking for information. I don't know of any other forums for ECAC teams, but if there are any others I'd be happy to know about it.

As far as keeping your cheers secret. Going to Lynah for the past two seasons, as well as Lake Placid 2 years ago I can testify that there's a lot of people at Clarkson who already know about the majority of your cheers(And I look forward to going back to Lynah this weekend, its much more fun than some of the more docile rinks). I've been to every ECAC rink atleast once and the fact is that things don't stay original for long. Pretty much every team has a variation of the most common cheers. I don't mean to do any team injustice, I just thought it would be fun to celebrate the fans for each team because real fans are so intense.

To try to prove that this is legitimate and won't be used maliciously here's the progress page for the project: [www.clarkson.edu] . I wish I could list the assignment specifically, but the professor sucks and its buried in the middle of a web page somewhere.

Sorry for 'causing all the trouble, I didn't think this would create such a controversy.

-Brian Walden
waldenbe@clarkson.edu

Oh for goodness sake, it isn't exactly the Manhattan Project. I'm sure Clarkson has a lot more important things to worry about than the cheers of their third-biggest rival. It's the equivalent of us launching a secret initiative to steal St. Lawrence's one cheer...

T

Well said

KeithK '93 wrote:

T

Seriously.

But why does the subject read "SLU cheers"?

Look, why don't we all support this guy. Anything that gets ECAC enthusiasm going is good. Let's all say go for it.

guys guys
i was the one who suggested him going here. he did post on USCHO first. i figured everyone could spread their wisdom.
and if u are worried about copyright, realize that it is on the web, anyone can grab anything about copyright. if he wanted to steal stuff he would be posting in another name so that he could get the link and then take and publish what he needs in another name!

What a load of utter horseshit. By your reasoning, if Age's leaves the keys in a Ducati in his driveway, I can ethically and legally take it because it is easy to do so? Or put another way, if you fail to lock the front door to your apartment, can I boost your TV and cds because you failed to take adequate access control measures?

Just because something is freely available on the web or otherwise does not give others the right to purloin said property, be it physical or intellectual.

That having been said, I never meant to imply that the eLynah cheers page should be treated as some sort of state secret. I think the matter may have been confused when JTW mistook my copyright concerns for some sort of security concern. Had I actually wanted to secure the page, I am clever enough not to rely on security through obscurity, and would have had apache reject accesses from clarkson.edu, slu.edu, yale.edu, etc.

-john

Down boy. . .

Actually John, if you leave your keys in your car, and it's RUNNING, and someone steals your car and kills someone with it, you ARE liable for that persons death. Sort of the big legal version of the "attractive nuisance" clause.

John E Hayes '98 '00 wrote:

JTW mistook my copyright concerns for some sort of security concern.

Um, okay. I just didn't see how not pointing out a page he could have found with two clicks was going to keep him from plagiarizing it. What should keep him from plagiarizing anything is that it's wrong. At any rate, what I imagine he has in mind is something like a scholarly paper which would summarize, compare and contrast, etc., all the ECAC cheers, with things like your cheers page used for information (you can't copyright the information, just the presentation) and likely referenced in some sort of bibliography.

But mostly I was looking for an excuse to use the little paranoid smiley guy.

Perhaps my post was a little over the top; I'd been banging my head against the tax code for hours and was a little hot under the collar.

(Random aside - I thought our taxes were gonna be lower this year; how did I go from getting a $1900 refund last year to owing $1200 this year. Grrr.)

Anyway, Brian said he would respect the copyright of others so I have no reason to suspect that he'll pull a Joe Biden on us. I'll try to wait patiently for his email before I ready the tar and feathers.

anywho,

-j


(Don't know who Joe Biden was? [www.washingtonpost.com])

If he merely copies the cheers, I don't think he has violated anyone's copyright protections...mostly because the cheers themselves are already in the public domain and unless Age created the cheers himself and properly copyrighted them, he (and this website) have no right of authorship to be protected.

If, on the other hand, he uses someone's posts or other "original" material that Age (or others) have provided here, well, then he has to address the copyright issues.

a) I own the copyright on the cheers page - not Age.

b) copyright law was changed in 1989 such that all works are automatically copyrighted - you no longer need to register the work to get copyright protection.

c) compilations of quotes, etc are copyrightable.

d) even if c) were not true, the cheers page contains enough commentary such that is is not merely a list.

Sorry to be so pedantic; if I weren't a scientist, I'd probably be in constitutional law. I actually enjoy the esoteric house of cards that constitutes our legal system.

Here is more than you ever wanted to know on copyright. [www.loc.gov]

You're correct, of course, although I had thought that he was just planning on doing his own compilation of cheers from around the hockey world, and using your list as a resource. The cheers themselves are not copyrightable by you, although your compilation certainly is.

> how did I go from getting a $1900 refund last year to owing $1200 this year. Grrr

Nothing more attractive than an Ivy League graduate complaining about his tax burden.

Go back to the People's Republic of Oregon you hippy...

Not that you care, but the inability to deduct the majority of my student loan interest is a large part of the problem. And you can almost hit the deduction income cap working OT at Burger King...

"Well, the world needs ditch diggers too." -- Caddyshack

However you slice it, your original comment made no sense. You didn't post the URL for the cheers page because you were worried about copyright concerns (on a website that hosts the cheers page, no less)? By that logic, it is a wonder that books ever get published. My god, someone, as we speak, may be making illicit copies of Stephen King's latest gorefest! I hope he has some sort of legal remedy . . . wait, nevermind. HE DOES (as do you).

Your publicly available page is a resource for anyone who comes across it; they have to decide for themselves whether to honor your copyright (and I think this falls well within "fair use". Copyright exists so that you can enforce your rights to the originality in your work, not to keep the work itself hidden - you have to do that work yourself.

Finally, while your work is automatically copyrighted, if you want to enforce your copyright, mark it. If you don't let people know that a work is copyrighted, you are limited in what you can do to violators.

ok i assume that u were referring to my post in ur post and then withdrew some of the anger, which is cool.
lemme just clarify what i meant...
i was not condoning someone stealing someone else's work. being a bit of "writer" myself, i hate it when people steal stuff.
i think that everyone who said "he is gonna steal __" is over reacting and taking fears of losing hard work to someone who can just point and click out on a guy who is asking for help. not everyone in this world is trying to screw everyone else.
and to think that a clarkson-cornell rivalry would motivate someone to take copywritten material for their own is a bit paranoid. i mean hostilities should stay in the rink, and that includes judging other people by their collegiate association.
my point was, if you are so afraid of someone taking your stuff for their own, then add some code that prevents copying of pages (which is possible to some extent) or take stuff off of the web. There is no reason why you should think of this guy differently in terms of copyrighted material than the average joe who hits your site everyday. if you trust that unknown person, then shouldn't you trust this kid?
but u realize all this, i just wanted to clarify. i should have explained myself more and i am sorry. i didnt realize that my post could be read in a different manner than i meant. i totally condemn stealing of work.
that said, LGR!

ps
dont know if there is a way to prevent this, but a google search for cornell cheers lists the cheer page.

But isn't the point to get as wide a following as possible? If all we do is let ourselves know about it, what's the point? Anyway anybody who wants to know about our cheers only has to go to Michigan. After all, they got a good percentage of them from us, and frankly I'm happy to be able to point that out to them. The more the merrier.

i agree jim, i just wanted to point out that the info to get to the site is out there. all u need is google.