Achievements

Gillam now has 39 career wins, tying him for 11th with LeNeveu. Gillam 83 GP, LeNeveu 46)

its really scary to see Gillam at 39 wins after 75+ starts and Dryden at 78 wins with only 83 starts..

upprdeck
its really scary to see Gillam at 39 wins after 75+ starts and Dryden at 78 wins with only 83 starts..

If Gillam could go back in time and have the skaters in front of him that Dryden had, not have Penn State, Union, Arizona State, Notre Dame attracting good players, he'd be closer to Dryden's stats. The year after Dryden was graduated, his successor, Brian Cropper, went unbeaten, something Dryden and team couldn't accomplish.

billhoward

upprdeck
its really scary to see Gillam at 39 wins after 75+ starts and Dryden at 78 wins with only 83 starts..

If Gillam could go back in time and have the skaters in front of him that Dryden had, not have Penn State, Union, Arizona State, Notre Dame attracting good players, he'd be closer to Dryden's stats. The year after Dryden was graduated, his successor, Brian Cropper, went unbeaten, something Dryden and team couldn't accomplish.

I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero. The parity, player quality, school commitment, etc. makes this a different universe if not truly a different game.

marty

billhoward

upprdeck
its really scary to see Gillam at 39 wins after 75+ starts and Dryden at 78 wins with only 83 starts..

If Gillam could go back in time and have the skaters in front of him that Dryden had, not have Penn State, Union, Arizona State, Notre Dame attracting good players, he'd be closer to Dryden's stats. The year after Dryden was graduated, his successor, Brian Cropper, went unbeaten, something Dryden and team couldn't accomplish.

I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero. The parity, player quality, school commitment, etc. makes this a different universe if not truly a different game.

And this is why comparing today with an era when Cornell made the Final Four six times in seven years just makes no sense. Different world.

marty
I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero.

An example: during the 67-68 season I watched Cornell play three away games in an eight-day span and score 40--that's correct, 40--goals, with the middle of those three games against a terrific BU team resulting in a tight 3-2 win. Not gonna happen today.

Al DeFlorio

marty
I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero.

An example: during the 67-68 season I watched Cornell play three away games in an eight-day span and score 40--that's correct, 40--goals, with the middle of those three games against a terrific BU team resulting in a tight 3-2 win. Not gonna happen today.

It was common back then to have some blow-out wins, even in playoffs. 1967 ECAC QF 11-2 vs Brown, SF 12-2 vs BC.

Jim Hyla

Al DeFlorio

marty
I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero.

An example: during the 67-68 season I watched Cornell play three away games in an eight-day span and score 40--that's correct, 40--goals, with the middle of those three games against a terrific BU team resulting in a tight 3-2 win. Not gonna happen today.

It was common back then to have some blow-out wins, even in playoffs. 1967 ECAC QF 11-2 vs Brown, SF 12-2 vs BC.

That was, of course, before goalie pads became ridiculously big.

I have watched this clip [www.youtube.com] from the 1974 ECAC first round playoff game between UNH (#1) and RPI (#8) many times. UNH scored three goals in under 2 minutes tying the game 4-4. I have wondered what RPI's Don Cutts, who was IMHO a good goalie, would have done with today's goalie pads. BTW, RPI won 7-6 in OT although you would not have guessed it from the clip. (Also UNH goalie Cap Raeder started even though he apparently quite sick and he gave up several early goals before being pulled.)

I also wonder what happened to the video from the rest of the game. The poster doesn't know.

ursusminor
That was, of course, before goalie pads became ridiculously big.

Right And goals came more frequently than in soccer games. Goalies looked like normal human beings with gloves and a stick and actually had to move an arm or a leg to make a save, rather than fall to their knees and catch the puck after it bounced off one of their many huge pads.

More equivocation: "The league was easier then blah blah blah . . . " Dryden has the best numbers of any goalie in the NHL - ever. Maybe the world's greatest hockey trivia question: Who was Stanley Cup MVP (Conn-Smythe Trophy) the year BEFORE he was NHL Rookie of the Year (Calder Memorial Trophy)?

ursusminor

Jim Hyla

Al DeFlorio

marty
I'll add that only a few teams were truly competitive in that period. On many nights the chance of a loss approached zero.

An example: during the 67-68 season I watched Cornell play three away games in an eight-day span and score 40--that's correct, 40--goals, with the middle of those three games against a terrific BU team resulting in a tight 3-2 win. Not gonna happen today.

It was common back then to have some blow-out wins, even in playoffs. 1967 ECAC QF 11-2 vs Brown, SF 12-2 vs BC.

That was, of course, before goalie pads became ridiculously big.

I have watched this clip [www.youtube.com] from the 1974 ECAC first round playoff game between UNH (#1) and RPI (#8) many times. UNH scored three goals in under 2 minutes tying the game 4-4. I have wondered what RPI's Don Cutts, who was IMHO a good goalie, would have done with today's goalie pads. BTW, RPI won 7-6 in OT although you would not have guessed it from the clip. (Also UNH goalie Cap Raeder started even though he apparently quite sick and he gave up several early goals before being pulled.)

I also wonder what happened to the video from the rest of the game. The poster doesn't know.

But of course that doesn't change the obvious disparity between the teams. After-all both teams goalie pads were similar and they couldn't score on us. The point is that the talent as much more varied, compared to now.

I did like the video. If RPI was playing more defense, maybe it would have been different. Even with today's goalie pads, if you give a star the puck, all alone in front of the goalie, you expect they might score. To defend Cutts, it's likely that the only one that, even today, he'd be expected to possibly stop was the first one. The other 2 were quick passes to an excellent forward, who was all alone.

But I'm glad you did beat UHN.

Hooking
More equivocation: "The league was easier then blah blah blah . . . " Dryden has the best numbers of any goalie in the NHL - ever. Maybe the world's greatest hockey trivia question: Who was Stanley Cup MVP (Conn-Smythe Trophy) the year BEFORE he was NHL Rookie of the Year (Calder Memorial Trophy)?

OK I'll answer your questions if you answer mine. How long have you been a hooker?

Jim Hyla
I did like the video.

Me too! I especially liked the cyclone fencing behind the goals!

How long? Ever since I decided to stop making excuses and instead look for improvement. Blaming the refereeing, the ice condition, the travel, the crowd, the bad breaks - none of these ever improved a team.

Hooking
How long? Ever since I decided to stop making excuses and instead look for improvement. Blaming the refereeing, the ice condition, the travel, the crowd, the bad breaks - none of these ever improved a team.

If 14-6-2 isn't a good season to you you are clueless...as well as tiresome, boring, and annoying. Change your handle to Whining.

In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

Still waiting for my hockey trivia question answer.

Hooking
Still waiting for my hockey trivia question answer.

I assumed the question was rhetorical. The answer's Ken Dryden.

Beeeej

Hooking
Still waiting for my hockey trivia question answer.

I assumed the question was rhetorical. The answer's Ken Dryden.

Agree with your first statement. Even if you didn't know the answer, you could guess it by the way it was posted. It's hard to believe he was waiting for an answer.

Jim Hyla

Beeeej

Hooking
Still waiting for my hockey trivia question answer.

I assumed the question was rhetorical. The answer's Ken Dryden.

Agree with your first statement. Even if you didn't know the answer, you could guess it by the way it was posted. It's hard to believe he was waiting for an answer.

Harder to believe he went to Cornell

nshapiro

Jim Hyla

Beeeej

Hooking
Still waiting for my hockey trivia question answer.

I assumed the question was rhetorical. The answer's Ken Dryden.

Agree with your first statement. Even if you didn't know the answer, you could guess it by the way it was posted. It's hard to believe he was waiting for an answer.

Harder to believe he went to Cornell

Hey. now.

There's always ILR...

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

I am not happy with participation ribbons in an inferior league. If we can't regularly compete against the top teams in the country then the sport doesn't interest me nearly as much.

Roy 82

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

I am not happy with participation ribbons in an inferior league. If we can't regularly compete against the top teams in the country then the sport doesn't interest me nearly as much.

Hmm.

Roy 82

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

I am not happy with participation ribbons in an inferior league. If we can't regularly compete against the top teams in the country then the sport doesn't interest me nearly as much.

A useful comparison would be how schools similar to Cornell have fared. There was RPI in 1985 and Harvard in 1989 winning NCAA titles. Then nothing for two decades. Then Yale and Union the past couple years. So it can be done.

billhoward

Roy 82

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

I am not happy with participation ribbons in an inferior league. If we can't regularly compete against the top teams in the country then the sport doesn't interest me nearly as much.

A useful comparison would be how schools similar to Cornell have fared. There was RPI in 1985 and Harvard in 1989 winning NCAA titles. Then nothing for two decades. Then Yale and Union the past couple years. So it can be done.

Sure it can be done, just not very often.

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

In the past 20 years (1997 - 2016) Cornell has one 4 ECAC championships. Only 8 in the 30 years before that. If we go back 21 years - i.e. the Schafer tenure - it is 5 ECAC championships vs 7 in the prior 30 years... and 40 years... A little loose with the stats.

rgc4

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

In the past 20 years (1997 - 2016) Cornell has one 4 ECAC championships. Only 8 in the 30 years before that. If we go back 21 years - i.e. the Schafer tenure - it is 5 ECAC championships vs 7 in the prior 30 years... and 40 years... A little loose with the stats.

So we have lies, damned lies, statistics, and alternative facts?

rgc4

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

In the past 20 years (1997 - 2016) Cornell has one 4 ECAC championships. Only 8 in the 30 years before that. If we go back 21 years - i.e. the Schafer tenure - it is 5 ECAC championships vs 7 in the prior 30 years... and 40 years... A little loose with the stats.

5 of those in 7 years. Glorious, glorious.......

There was a time when sarcasm was appreciated. You see, posters on this site disparaged Dryden and Cornell teams of his era because they supposedly played at a time when excellence in hockey was easier to achieve. My sarcastic question was meant to point out that excellence in the NHL at that time must also have been easier to achieve since Dryden blew away competition in his rookie-minus-one year in the NHL and was goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning team in six of the eight seasons he played in the NHL. Nonsense is nonsense, with or without insults.

Hooking
There was a time when sarcasm was appreciated. You see, posters on this site disparaged Dryden and Cornell teams of his era because they supposedly played at a time when excellence in hockey was easier to achieve. My sarcastic question was meant to point out that excellence in the NHL at that time must also have been easier to achieve since Dryden blew away competition in his rookie-minus-one year in the NHL and was goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning team in six of the eight seasons he played in the NHL. Nonsense is nonsense, with or without insults.

Who has done this?

Hooking
There was a time when sarcasm was appreciated. You see, posters on this site disparaged Dryden and Cornell teams of his era because they supposedly played at a time when excellence in hockey was easier to achieve. My sarcastic question was meant to point out that excellence in the NHL at that time must also have been easier to achieve since Dryden blew away competition in his rookie-minus-one year in the NHL and was goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning team in six of the eight seasons he played in the NHL. Nonsense is nonsense, with or without insults.

Dryden's eligibility is used up. Plus he's old. After 48 years, it's time to get over it.

Jim Hyla

Hooking
There was a time when sarcasm was appreciated. You see, posters on this site disparaged Dryden and Cornell teams of his era because they supposedly played at a time when excellence in hockey was easier to achieve. My sarcastic question was meant to point out that excellence in the NHL at that time must also have been easier to achieve since Dryden blew away competition in his rookie-minus-one year in the NHL and was goaltender for the Stanley Cup winning team in six of the eight seasons he played in the NHL. Nonsense is nonsense, with or without insults.

Who has done this?

No one has done this but Hooking has come to the conclusion that if we point out the differences in player quality, parity and school commitment then we are disparaging what Harkness and his players accomplished. His logic is faulty but I do not wish to argue with him. I'd rather watch tonight's game.

(Parenthetically, I believe Michigan fans have more to bitch about than we do this year. Look at the money Notre Dame has thrown at this sport. No Irish luck in hockey. Wisconsin under Eaves looked like a dynasty in the making but...)

If it's so damn easy to make the Frozen Four why don't all 60 D1 schools make it on a regular basis? Or if you really want to throw logic on its head why don't all 60 teams make it to the finals every year?

7 PM can't come quick enough for me. Drop the puck.

Roy 82

Hooking
In the past 20 years Cornell won 3 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. In the previous 30 years Cornell won 9 ECAC men's ice hockey championships. If you are content with these numbers good for you, but please don't defend your satisfaction with references to league change, bad hops, and all that malarky, just enjoy the status quo.

I am not happy with participation ribbons in an inferior league. If we can't regularly compete against the top teams in the country then the sport doesn't interest me nearly as much.

But Cornell has competed against the top teams in the country when the ECAC has stunk. Under Schafer, Cornell is ~.500 in the NCAA tournament, and for nearly all of that time the ECAC stunk. As stated above, when we won national championships, our talent was leaps and bounds better than the competition. The only noticeable difference from the ECAC improving in past years is that we win less often and make the NCAAs less often.

Al DeFlorio

Hooking
How long? Ever since I decided to stop making excuses and instead look for improvement. Blaming the refereeing, the ice condition, the travel, the crowd, the bad breaks - none of these ever improved a team.

If 14-6-2 isn't a good season to you you are clueless...as well as tiresome, boring, and annoying. Change your handle to Whining.

+1

Al DeFlorio
If 14-6-2 isn't a good season to you

I'll leave out the nastiness, but this is essentially my argument. We *COULD* have a knee-jerk coaching change, but the very-real risk is that we suffer a decade+ in-the-wilderness period like RPI has endured and is shackled to more than ever. The value of this era people often overlook is our "high-floor." Our worst years are most all still bubble years. We don't have imploded seasons like Wisconsin, Michigan State, Colorado College & other historically strong programs have had. The only other programs I can think of with a better "high floor" factor than us are BC, Denver, Michigan (until this year), Minnesota, & North Dakota. SLU is near our peer in this for ECAC teams, and they haven't had the hardware we've been able to claim.

RichH

Al DeFlorio
If 14-6-2 isn't a good season to you

I'll leave out the nastiness, but this is essentially my argument. We *COULD* have a knee-jerk coaching change, but the very-real risk is that we suffer a decade+ in-the-wilderness period like RPI has endured and is shackled to more than ever. The value of this era people often overlook is our "high-floor." Our worst years are most all still bubble years. We don't have imploded seasons like Wisconsin, Michigan State, Colorado College & other historically strong programs have had. The only other programs I can think of with a better "high floor" factor than us are BC, Denver, Michigan (until this year), Minnesota, & North Dakota. SLU is near our peer in this for ECAC teams, and they haven't had the hardware we've been able to claim.

I agree with all this.

The scary thing is the ECAC "high floor" teams were, for decades after the Great Divorce, Cornell, Harvard and Clarkson. Now they're Cornell, Union, and Yale. So you can fall out of constant contention.

". . . only a few teams were competitive during that period" - cited twice above. When you have an excellent team this statement is absolutely true because you have an excellent team, but tautologies prove nothing. Cornell faces an abundance of competitive teams now, especially Dartmouth in Lynah. On the bright side the Red has recently pulled it together against some competitive teams (as indicated by their ranking). If they can maintain their focus this could be a fun post-season.

Hooking
". . . only a few teams were competitive during that period" - cited twice above.

As so often seems to happen, you missed the point of Marty's comment.

The point is that with so many more teams competitive today, a 29-0 or 27-1-1 season is just not going to happen now. You appear to be obsessed with the fact that today's Cornell teams don't put together 110-5-1 records over a four-season span like Ned's last four teams did. Fact is...no one is going to. Why not? "...only a few teams were competitive during that [magical four-year] period," and that's no longer the case.

No one disparaged those great teams. Maybe they could have beaten BU, BC, Clarkson, Denver, and North Dakota 105 games in a row. But the fact is: They didn't have to, so we'll never know. Most games were walk-overs, as Marty pointed out. Times have changed. Merrimack just swept BU in a home-and-home series. There was no Merrimack in 1967-1970.

The March 1967 NCAA semi-final game between Cornell and North Dakota was one of the finest hockey games I have ever seen and matched two teams of unquestioned excellence. Belittling past excellence in any enterprise because it happened long ago is silly. If time passed negates excellence then L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth" is a more excellent dramatic presentation than Shakespeare's "King Lear"!?

Hooking
The March 1967 NCAA semi-final game between Cornell and North Dakota was one of the finest hockey games I have ever seen and matched two teams of unquestioned excellence. Belittling past excellence in any enterprise because it happened long ago is silly. If time passed negates excellence then L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth" is a more excellent dramatic presentation than Shakespeare's "King Lear"!?

You are still literally the only person in this conversation making any such suggestion. If you believe otherwise, you have serious reading comprehension issues.

Hooking
The March 1967 NCAA semi-final game between Cornell and North Dakota was one of the finest hockey games I have ever seen and matched two teams of unquestioned excellence. Belittling past excellence in any enterprise because it happened long ago is silly. If time passed negates excellence then L. Ron Hubbard's "Battlefield Earth" is a more excellent dramatic presentation than Shakespeare's "King Lear"!?

I'll try one more time but something tells me you either don't know how to read or you just don't want to understand what people are writing. No one is "belittling" anything or anyone. We are pointing out that no team today is going to do what the Cornell teams did in 1967-1970 because the Division I college hockey world has changed.

If you look back at the records of Cornell's and BU's 1966-67 teams you will see that against eastern teams not named BU Cornell was 20-1 (loss to Yale with Dave Quarrie in net) and against eastern teams not named Cornell BU was 21-0. There are too many competitive teams in the east today for any team--let alone two teams--to dominate like that. So your upset that Cornell today can't match the record of the 1967-70 teams is simply unrealistic and unreasonable.

Having watched Cornell hockey since 1961 and having enjoyed all of those great teams, I would never "belittle" or "disparage" them. But I have zero expectation that any Cornell hockey team from this point on is going to replicate what they did.

RichH
We don't have imploded seasons like Wisconsin, Michigan State, Colorado College & other historically strong programs have had.

I think 2015 counts as our only implosion, which even then wasn't an implosion on the order to which you are referring.

2015 should've been so good, but man did they suck!

Your point is well taken. My perception of Cornell hockey is also more influenced by year-old memories than half-century old memories. The cause of this recent collapse (and all failures) interests me more than attempts to rationalize it.

Hooking
Your point is well taken. My perception of Cornell hockey is also more influenced by year-old memories than half-century old memories. The cause of this recent collapse (and all failures) interests me more than attempts to rationalize it.

Regarding your memory collapse, perhaps see your MD?

Marty: If you would rather dis me rather than the enjoyment and success of Cornell Hockey and the reasons for its successes (vs. excuses for its failures) you could establish a new website.

Hooking
Marty: If you would rather dis me rather than the enjoyment and success of Cornell Hockey and the reasons for its successes (vs. excuses for its failures) you could establish a new website.

You should try to keep one friend here. You'll need him for the last nail.