Florida College Classic

I'm sure a field of Merrimack, Northern Michigan, and Colorado College looked somewhat attractive when they were putting it together, but now it looks like quite the parade of mediocrity, and we look heavily favored, at least relatively speaking (which could be problematic in itself):

15t Cornell             7-3-1
37  Merrimack           6-8-3
48  Colorado College   3-12-1
57  Northern Michigan  4-14-2

Is it possible this is the least exciting holiday tournament field ever?

I'm sure there was at least one Syracuse (Hockey) Invitation Tournament that was worse.

Beeeej
I'm sure a field of Merrimack, Northern Michigan, and Colorado College looked somewhat attractive when they were putting it together, but now it looks like quite the parade of mediocrity, and we look heavily favored, at least relatively speaking (which could be problematic in itself):

15t Cornell             7-3-1
37  Merrimack           6-8-3
48  Colorado College   3-12-1
57  Northern Michigan  4-14-2

Is it possible this is the least exciting holiday tournament field ever?

It is the least exciting tournament in the Florida tournament but look at these teams during the RPI Holiday Tournament ten year long death spiral:

2001 RPI UMass Niagara Quinnipiac
2002 Merrimack Wayne State Princeton RPI
2003 Northeastern Mercyhurst Colgate RPI
2004 Air Force RPI Robert Morris Sacred Heart
2005 Nebraska–Omaha Holy Cross RPI Providence
2006 Niagara Colgate RPI Ohio State
2007 Notre Dame RPI Alabama–Huntsville American International
2008 Northeastern RPI Mercyhurst Princeton
2009 Union RPI Bentley Lake Superior
2010 RPI Bowling Green Alabama-Huntsville Connecticut

That's not a spiral. It's standing water.

Trotsky
That's not a spiral. It's standing water.

Or coffee. Often the tourney highlight was the redesign of the souvenir mug.

This is a classic battle of teams that do not control the puck most of the time: defensive teams!

What a difference from the teams that were in the tournament last year. Of course, anything less than a win in this tournament would not be good from our point of view.

Anyone...you know, planning to go? I went in 2013 and had a great time.

I am a maybe, likely no this year.

My sweet girl (and avatar) Abby-Bâby passed away in July at the age of 11. She had a tumor on her heart and there were no options. I have adopted a new canine companion - Eden the Elf - a four year old 40 lb black and tan coonhound mix who has separation anxiety.

I have only had her ~ 10 weeks and we are slowly working through this issue, but in the meantime, I cannot leave her for long periods of time. She barks, howls and whines and we live in a condo building with horrible acoustics.

It is a good thing I work for a small company with a boss that loves dogs and lets me bring her to work. And yes, I have a type .

Rita
I am a maybe, likely no this year.

My sweet girl (and avatar) Abby-Bâby passed away in July at the age of 11. She had a tumor on her heart and there were no options. I have adopted a new canine companion - Eden the Elf - a four year old 40 lb black and tan coonhound mix who has separation anxiety.

Good dogs.

ugarte

Rita
I am a maybe, likely no this year.

My sweet girl (and avatar) Abby-Bâby passed away in July at the age of 11. She had a tumor on her heart and there were no options. I have adopted a new canine companion - Eden the Elf - a four year old 40 lb black and tan coonhound mix who has separation anxiety.

Good dogs.

Good people make good dogs.

I'm making my first trip to the Florida College Classic this year. Perhaps the most insignificant question on this forum is this. While in Florida I have no
intention of wearing anything but shorts if at all possible. Is that the normal attire for games at Germain Arena or should I plan otherwise?

wakester2468
I'm making my first trip to the Florida College Classic this year. Perhaps the most insignificant question on this forum is this. While in Florida I have no
intention of wearing anything but shorts if at all possible. Is that the normal attire for games at Germain Arena or should I plan otherwise?

Probably depends on who you ask. People who live in Florida think 65°F weather warrants a heavy jacket.

Yes, wearing shorts is totally possible - I'm amazed at the number of people that do it for the Florida Classic and at Everblade games. You might want to consider bringing a sweatshirt since it is drafty in there and very little "body heat" from the human fans (or lack there of).

I, on the other hand, am always cold so I'm bundled up in turtlenecks and sweatshirts.

If you get cold, move to the top row because heat rises....

Shorts are fine, paired with a sweatshirt. Temps outside could be 50 to 85. Estero is almost as far south as Miami, just on the west coast.

You didn't ask, but no, you don't need to buy tickets in advance. The turnout is decent but not a sellout.

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Rita
I am a maybe, likely no this year.

My sweet girl (and avatar) Abby-Bâby passed away in July at the age of 11. She had a tumor on her heart and there were no options. I have adopted a new canine companion - Eden the Elf - a four year old 40 lb black and tan coonhound mix who has separation anxiety.

Good dogs.

Good people make good dogs.

That's the closest to a heart/hug emoticon I could find. Sorry for your loss. Happy for your gain.

I was "channel surfing" and noticed that the Ivy League Digital Network lists the Florida College Hockey Classic as being shown. It's not listed on CornellBigRed.com, but I have to assume the network is correct.

Good news! According to article in Daily Sun, Kubiak will be back in lineup today in Florida. The article also says Gillam injured his knee during second game against Miami, but should be able to play today. College Hockey News, meanwhile, is reporting that two Merrimack players are leaving the team.

Two Merrimack Sophomores Leave Team At Semester Break. Not their stars, but it probably won't help them.

the game is still listed on the ILDN for today.. glad we paid to keep our AD so the Ath dept could be bothered to update the big red web site with that info on the schedule.. you have to read the stores to find out thats its available.

i still think we get all but one of the injured guys back this year.

I am pretty sure that ILDN is audio only; the game notes story doesn't come right out and say it but it isn't clear that there will be video.

Well that would be downer but not surprised. That might explain why its listed on the notes and not the schedule.. Still listing in the notes as webcast makes me think video more than audio since radio is listed on its own line.

One thing though. Since my post a few minutes ago and your response the video link has suddenly shown up on the schedule .. So maybe there is hope after all.

Well, this is now on Cornell Big Red, Watch the Florida College Hockey Classic on ILDN. I suspect that they had a number of calls/emails asking about it, so they finally had to put it out for sure.

Wait, so it's not on ESPN3? I thought someone said it would be.

My phone (Samsung Galaxy 7) would only pick up the ILDN for about 3 minutes at a time, then display a message that "this phone cannot broadcast this event." On refresh, I'd get the next 3 mins, and so.

Trotsky
My phone (Samsung Galaxy 7) would only pick up the ILDN for about 3 minutes at a time, then display a message that "this phone cannot broadcast this event." On refresh, I'd get the next 3 mins, and so.

The USCHO "live" scoreboard has been stuck with 25 seconds left in the second period for several minutes now - and even the eLynah Twitter feed hasn't posted in 26 minutes since our last goal. Anybody got any idea what's going on down there?

Beeeej

Trotsky
My phone (Samsung Galaxy 7) would only pick up the ILDN for about 3 minutes at a time, then display a message that "this phone cannot broadcast this event." On refresh, I'd get the next 3 mins, and so.

The USCHO "live" scoreboard has been stuck with 25 seconds left in the second period for several minutes now - and even the eLynah Twitter feed hasn't posted in 26 minutes since our last goal. Anybody got any idea what's going on down there?

Never mind, it just suddenly refreshed at the beginning of the third. I guess the scoreboard-keeper went on intermission early and forgot about us.

And now it's evident why NMU has had such a rough season. And yet, they aren't even the lowest PWR team.

As I posted on the chat, we beat the teams that we should, now we need to show that we can win some of the tougher ones.

We're now 13 in PWR

Jim Hyla
We're now 13 in PWR

Need to win tomorrow too. Remember, remember the 29th of December...

Just got home from the game.

Very enjoyable. Larger crowd than I remember there being three years ago.

Around an hour before the game was at the nearby outlet mall and saw a bunch of young guys in matching Cornell polos and shorts, clearly on the team. My first thought was "damn I'm old." and the second was "I wonder if they're stranded and need a ride to the rink."

They seemed fine. During warmups, I chatted with Ryan Bliss for a bit, and he said the team was enjoying the weather, anyway. He seemed disappointed that he wasn't playing.

All and all, a good performance. The first goal on Gillam was a rifle shot off the post and in. Not sure he had a chance. I didn't get a good look at the second NMU goal.

The Cornell goals were pretty solid, too. None of the battering, scrummy "garbage goals" we used to get a lot of. Mostly wrist shots from 10-15 feet out. The first one was a beautiful deflection, it seemed, and the Cornell fan section knew it was in about a full second before anyone on the ice reacted.

Dan Wedman left the ice clutching his wrist in the second period, and watched the third with his arm in a sling. Hopefully that was just precautionary. It didn't look like they wrapped it too seriously or anything, just that they wanted to immobilize it briefly. Hopefully he's okay.

A fun experience, and great to see a lot of the players' families in attendance. I *think* I was sitting near Schafer's dad. Is that possible?

LaJollaRed
I *think* I was sitting near Schafer's dad. Is that possible?

Unlikely, since Schafer's father died almost 30 years ago.

ACM

LaJollaRed
I *think* I was sitting near Schafer's dad. Is that possible?

Unlikely, since Schafer's father died almost 30 years ago.

His brother looks like an older version of him, though, so that may have been him.

There are still under 5 minutes left but it seems like CC will be tomorrow's opponent and Merrimack will have to wait until next month.

CC wins 3-zip, so we will play them.

Jim Hyla
We're now 13 in PWR

Merrimack's loss drops us to t14 with SLU.

Dan Wedman left the ice clutching his wrist in the second period, and watched the third with his arm in a sling. Hopefully that was just precautionary. It didn't look like they wrapped it too seriously or anything, just that they wanted to immobilize it briefly. Hopefully he's okay. [/quote

Wedman is out, Anderson in tonight

ACM

LaJollaRed
I *think* I was sitting near Schafer's dad. Is that possible?

Unlikely, since Schafer's father died almost 30 years ago.

Puts the meaning in "droll"

ugarte

Jim Hyla
We're now 13 in PWR

Merrimack's loss drops us to t14 with SLU.

Q's win puts us at 12.

ugarte
Merrimack's loss drops us to t14 with SLU.

But we begin today's game up to 12, mostly on the effect of QU's win vs. BC today. We leap Notre Dame and BC, SLU, and QU are tied at 14. The gap to #11 Minnesota is probably too great to make up vs. a weak opponent like CC, and the difference between #12 and #13 is less than one-thousandth of an RPI point.

The message remains: Just win, baby.

LaJollaRed
Very enjoyable. Larger crowd than I remember there being three years ago.

Box score (second game) had the first night's attendance at 3,812. Rink info lists ice hockey capacity at 7,181. [germainarena.com]

Stewart in net vs. CC. I like it. If the gap between the two isn't that large, let's get them both some game experience.

How about you guys joining chat.

Love to but I am stuck in a Ground Hog Day loop that goes from 2:25 remaining in the first to 1:40 remaining and then buffers forever.

Roy 82
Love to but I am stuck in a Ground Hog Day loop that goes from 2:25 remaining in the first to 1:40 remaining and then buffers forever.

ILDN has to be the effing worst!

RichH
Stewart in net vs. CC. I like it. If the gap between the two isn't that large, let's get them both some game experience.

Makes sense with three games in four nights and a decent flight in between. Not sure which game is "more important" from a pwr perspective but getting Gilliam on routine for the home stretch is good.

Chris '03

Makes sense with three games in four nights and a decent flight in between.

? The Merrimack game isn't until Jan 7.

Chris '03

RichH
Stewart in net vs. CC. I like it. If the gap between the two isn't that large, let's get them both some game experience.

Makes sense with three games in four nights and a decent flight in between. Not sure which game is "more important" from a pwr perspective but getting Gilliam on routine for the home stretch is good.

"Three games in four nights"?

I hate this fucking tournament.

ugarte
I hate this fucking tournament.

Lousy field and still can't win. Treading water as long as Mike's in charge.

ACM

Chris '03

RichH
Stewart in net vs. CC. I like it. If the gap between the two isn't that large, let's get them both some game experience.

Makes sense with three games in four nights and a decent flight in between. Not sure which game is "more important" from a pwr perspective but getting Gilliam on routine for the home stretch is good.

"Three games in four nights"?

I can't read. There's a week in between...Nothing to see here...

Boom. Drop to 20 in PWR.

And we sink to 20 in PWR just like that....

There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Do we know why Gilliam didn't play?

Trotsky
Boom. Drop to 20 in PWR.

I knew we'd drop, but geez

Iceberg
There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Second; the Merrimack loss was just as bad.

ugarte
I hate this fucking tournament.

It really has become an albatross.

ugarte

Iceberg
There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Second; the Merrimack loss was just as bad.

Not as the first game of the season, when they had played 6. Now if we lose the next one, that's bad.

CAS
Do we know why Gilliam didn't play?

In the pregame coach S. said he'd been working really hard and deserved the start.

scoop85

ugarte
I hate this fucking tournament.

It really has become an albatross.

It would be great, if we won...

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Iceberg
There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Second; the Merrimack loss was just as bad.

Not as the first game of the season, when they had played 6. Now if we lose the next one, that's bad.

Pairwise doesn't care if you lose to a shitty team in November or February.

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Iceberg
There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Second; the Merrimack loss was just as bad.

Not as the first game of the season, when they had played 6. Now if we lose the next one, that's bad.

Ouch! This sets the stage for the dismal January swoon that has become a Cornell hockey tradition in our minds even if it is not statistically so.

You know about debarking surgical procedures? Quite effective. Not clear if it's cruel to the dog (actually, maybe it is) but then think what he's already had lopped off. Our gen 2 terrier is a whiner where the first one never yipped or whined when left alone, but then we're on 1.5 acres, not in a condo, and distance equals noise abatement. Good luck. Maybe a good trainer?

3812  reported day 1 attendance 2016 vs. Germain Arena hockey capacity 7181
3772  reported day 2 attendance (including tickets sold not used?) 
----
7584  2-day reported total

We have family in SW Florida, this gives us a second reason to spend the last week of the year in Florida, and we hope the tournament keeps going. Can it? We need teams with larger fan bases (Wisconsin, Michigan, Notre Dame, BC, Ohio State) except if they're in larger metro areas, it's a chance for them to host their own holiday tournaments at home. We lucked out two years ago when participant Providence turned out to be the defending national champion. Be nice to get Penn State to play in the next year or two, unless they've already grown too big for Estero.

Team		Appear	Champ
Maine		14	6
Cornell		17	4
Ohio State	5	1
St. Cloud	3	1
Boston College	2	1
N Michigan	2	1
Lake SuperiorSt	1	1
UMass Lowell	1	1
Clarkson	3	0
Massachusetts	2	0
Miami		2	0
Minn–Duluth	2	0
New Hampshire	2	0
Notre Dame	2	0
Princeton	2	0
Colgate		1	0
Colorado Col	2	1
Merrimack	1	0
Ferris State	1	0
Northeastern	1	0
Providence	1	0
W Michigan	1	0
Merrimack	1	0

It was 2015 (last year) for Providence followed by the Buckeye crash.

Rita
I am a maybe, likely no this year.

My sweet girl (and avatar) Abby-Bâby passed away in July at the age of 11. She had a tumor on her heart and there were no options. I have adopted a new canine companion - Eden the Elf - a four year old 40 lb black and tan coonhound mix who has separation anxiety.

I have only had her ~ 10 weeks and we are slowly working through this issue, but in the meantime, I cannot leave her for long periods of time. She barks, howls and whines and we live in a condo building with horrible acoustics.

It is a good thing I work for a small company with a boss that loves dogs and lets me bring her to work. And yes, I have a type .

billhoward
You know about debarking surgical procedures? Quite effective. Not clear if it's cruel to the dog (actually, maybe it is) but then think what he's already had lopped off. Our gen 2 terrier is a whiner where the first one never yipped or whined when left alone, but then we're on 1.5 acres, not in a condo, and distance equals noise abatement. Good luck. Maybe a good trainer?

Try a no bark collar. It gives a mild shock that gets progressively stronger if she continues to bark. It worked with my Jake. I only use it now if he has a relapse, which is very rare. He hasn't suffered any psychological damage, at least as far as I can tell.

ugarte

Jim Hyla

ugarte

Iceberg
There's the first "bad" loss. But there's a lot of hockey between now and March.

Second; the Merrimack loss was just as bad.

Not as the first game of the season, when they had played 6. Now if we lose the next one, that's bad.

Pairwise doesn't care if you lose to a shitty team in November or February.

You're right, but I didn't realize that this discussion was about PWR. I was referring to my prior post on this thread:

"As I posted on the chat, we beat the teams that we should, now we need to show that we can win some of the tougher ones."

By that definition I didn't consider the first game as one that we necessarily should have won and that's why I was happy we didn't play both games in the beginning. I think we have a much better chance of winning now, than we did then.

But now this is a game that we have to show we can win.

After all of the years CU has played in this tournament,I finally made the decision to take it in this year.
Let me just say it will be the last time. While most holiday tournaments lack in enthusiasm, this one is particularly bad.
I understand the Cornell connection to these games but I believe CU has been more than honorable supporting it.
Would love to see a holiday tournament resurface at Lake Placid as in the past. It's a fabulous setting during this time of year and might actually allow
for a little competitive advantage should they make the ECAC final four in March.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cornell try to host a tourney a la the RPI Invitational. IIRC the arguments against it were the lack of lockerroom space and the generally shitty condition of the "back office" facilities, but those have been improved in the refurbishments.

Lynah is a fun, historic place to play, and we could concentrate on invitees who rarely/never get to go there (the AHA and the west).

The idea of hosting a tourney at LP, and thus making that a "home" site in March, is terrific, but I believe that place is booked solid with underage tourneys all through December. Maybe we could co-host with Clarkson and pump a little life into that rivalry. With Casey there the negotiations should be easy.

Trotsky,

Didn't Cornell host a tourney many years ago?

A problem that RPI had in recent years was getting quality opponents to attend who wouldn't treat this as a two-game series at RPI demanding two games in their barn in return. From RPI's point of view having two games in Troy and having to play a total of six away games was a no-go, so we ended up having poorer and poorer tourneys.

ursusminor
Trotsky,

Didn't Cornell host a tourney many years ago?

A problem that RPI had in recent years was getting quality opponents to attend who wouldn't treat this as a two-game series at RPI demanding two games in their barn in return. From RPI's point of view having two games in Troy and having to play a total of six away games was a no-go, so we ended up having poorer and poorer tourneys.

Cornell did host briefly. Arthur would remember in detail by the impression is it Did Not Go Well.

I'm sure we would have the same home/away issue, and Mike would insist as well. The more I think about the Clarkson/Cornell co-host at Placid the more I love it.

Cornell has played consistently over the past few years. The performance of this year's team resembles that of last year's team, right through the Estero Tournament. Complacency sucks.

1. I don't think it's complacency.

2. We played very well in the second Estero game. Puck luck did us in. Last year OTOH we sucked harder for longer than a truck stop well you know.

There is a reason why teams don't "show up" for some games or at some times of the year. I suspect Cornell hockey fans are becoming more complacent than the players, and every effect has its cause.

Trotsky

ursusminor
Trotsky,

Didn't Cornell host a tourney many years ago?

A problem that RPI had in recent years was getting quality opponents to attend who wouldn't treat this as a two-game series at RPI demanding two games in their barn in return. From RPI's point of view having two games in Troy and having to play a total of six away games was a no-go, so we ended up having poorer and poorer tourneys.

Cornell did host briefly. Arthur would remember in detail by the impression is it Did Not Go Well.

I'm sure we would have the same home/away issue, and Mike would insist as well. The more I think about the Clarkson/Cornell co-host at Placid the more I love it.

1958-59 Cornell Invitational
1/1/59 lost 11-0 to Colby
1/2/59 lost 10-0 to New Hampshire

1960-61 Cornell Invitational
12/19/60 lost 4-3 to Norwich
12/20/60 lost 2-1 to Bowdoin
12/21/60 lost 5-2 to Williams

1977-78 Cornell Holiday Festival
12/29/77 beat Toronto 10-5
12/30/77 beat Bowling Green 5-3

1978-79 Cornell Holiday Festival
12/28/78 beat Maine 3-1
12/29/78 beat Western Michigan 8-3

The team hates Florida. I was sitting next to the parent of a player at one of the games. The parent said that when the son was a freshman he expressed enthusiasm about going to Florida in December and the seniors were “well, not exactly.” They all know that have never play well in Estero. They have to leave on the 26th, practice on the 27th and play the next day. They just want to get back to Ithaca and get on with season.

there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

rstott
The team hates Florida. I was sitting next to the parent of a player at one of the games. The parent said that when the son was a freshman he expressed enthusiasm about going to Florida in December and the seniors were “well, not exactly.” They all know that have never play well in Estero. They have to leave on the 26th, practice on the 27th and play the next day. They just want to get back to Ithaca and get on with season.

I don't doubt you, but this isn't what I've heard from player families before. That was some years ago, and the bloom may be off the orange.

upprdeck
there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

this analysis would all be well and good if Colorado College wasn't 4-12-1 coming into the Estero final. You lose some games with puck luck. It happens. And a few bounces and you're right: we're not thinking about the game at all. But we lost to a bad team because we couldn't generate enough offense to keep a couple of bad bounces from mattering.

ugarte

upprdeck
there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

this analysis would all be well and good if Colorado College wasn't 4-12-1 coming into the Estero final. You lose some games with puck luck. It happens. And a few bounces and you're right: we're not thinking about the game at all. But we lost to a bad team because we couldn't generate enough offense to keep a couple of bad bounces from mattering.

All that means is they're not a great team. Good teams are never entirely outside the gravitational pull of a bad night. The thing that makes great teams great is when they completely suck and still somehow rip a win out of it. That's when you know you really have something and people start talking about "team of destiny" and all that rot.

The loss blows and it hurts them in PWR but I had no doubt who the better team was all night. That was not the case when they lost 8-zip to OSU.

Trotsky

ugarte

upprdeck
there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

this analysis would all be well and good if Colorado College wasn't 4-12-1 coming into the Estero final. You lose some games with puck luck. It happens. And a few bounces and you're right: we're not thinking about the game at all. But we lost to a bad team because we couldn't generate enough offense to keep a couple of bad bounces from mattering.

All that means is they're not a great team. Good teams are never entirely outside the gravitational pull of a bad night. The thing that makes great teams great is when they completely suck and still somehow rip a win out of it. That's when you know you really have something and people start talking about "team of destiny" and all that rot.

The loss blows and it hurts them in PWR but I had no doubt who the better team was all night. That was not the case when they lost 8-zip to OSU.

So very true.

wakester2468
Let me just say it will be the last time.

You might be on to something there.

Trotsky

ugarte

upprdeck
there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

this analysis would all be well and good if Colorado College wasn't 4-12-1 coming into the Estero final. You lose some games with puck luck. It happens. And a few bounces and you're right: we're not thinking about the game at all. But we lost to a bad team because we couldn't generate enough offense to keep a couple of bad bounces from mattering.

All that means is they're not a great team. Good teams are never entirely outside the gravitational pull of a bad night. The thing that makes great teams great is when they completely suck and still somehow rip a win out of it. That's when you know you really have something and people start talking about "team of destiny" and all that rot.

The loss blows and it hurts them in PWR but I had no doubt who the better team was all night. That was not the case when they lost 8-zip to OSU.

Cornell is an average team that has had above-average luck. Tough to make the case for anything else. Weak SOS, lots of close wins, not even outshooting the bad teams. One more SOG than one of the worst teams in the country? Really? The advanced stats suggest no better:
[www.collegehockeynews.com]

BearLover

Trotsky

ugarte

upprdeck
there is losing and not playing well.. there is also losing and just not winning. they played well and controlled game 1, game 2 they played fine, had far the better chances, gave up a short handed breakaway type goal and a sloppy one to cost them the game after doing a good job to kill off a PK. its hockey and you can be the better team and lose any night. they goal is to be the better team more often than you are the lucky team .

if we win the 2-1 game we are looking at perhaps the hottest team in the NCAA by record. to come out of florida with 2 well played games is a sign of optimism that hopefully carries on this weekend and is much more important getting back into ECAC play.

this analysis would all be well and good if Colorado College wasn't 4-12-1 coming into the Estero final. You lose some games with puck luck. It happens. And a few bounces and you're right: we're not thinking about the game at all. But we lost to a bad team because we couldn't generate enough offense to keep a couple of bad bounces from mattering.

All that means is they're not a great team. Good teams are never entirely outside the gravitational pull of a bad night. The thing that makes great teams great is when they completely suck and still somehow rip a win out of it. That's when you know you really have something and people start talking about "team of destiny" and all that rot.

The loss blows and it hurts them in PWR but I had no doubt who the better team was all night. That was not the case when they lost 8-zip to OSU.

Cornell is an average team that has had above-average luck. Tough to make the case for anything else. Weak SOS, lots of close wins, not even outshooting the bad teams. One more SOG than one of the worst teams in the country? Really? The advanced stats suggest no better:
[www.collegehockeynews.com]

I'm skeptical of hockey advanced metrics to begin with (I feel like we're still waiting for a better set of measurements to be developed), but especially so in college. At least in the NHL, you can be certain that almost every player, barring a few O'Byrne-esque sorts, can locate shots well, and therefore more chances and better flow of play is going to result in more goals. On the college level, I'd think the distribution of shooting accuracy would be far more scattered, resulting in more variety. More chances is certainly better than fewer chances, but whether or not your players can put shots in (or on) goal is important. I can recall a bunch of frustrating losses a decade ago where we'd outshoot a weaker team 50-20 and still lose, because we made some not-that-great goalie look incredible. It seems like our snipers snipe better with this team.

Admittedly, I take a similar approach to baseball analytics, where I'm all for advanced metrics but disagree with the general premise that BABIP always reverts to the mean. Maybe I'm just getting crotchety.

We've got plenty of hockey left and stiffer competition. I'm encouraged by the fact that we've at least looked like we belong on the ice with some of the better teams we've faced, and as has been mentioned in this thread, losing 2-1 is better than losing 8-0. I fully expect us to be roughly around where we were last year, hopefully a bit better, and while I'd love an NCAA bid, I refuse to call missing out by one spot a complete failure.

Trotsky
I wouldn't mind seeing Cornell try to host a tourney a la the RPI Invitational. IIRC the arguments against it were the lack of lockerroom space and the generally shitty condition of the "back office" facilities, but those have been improved in the refurbishments.

Lynah is a fun, historic place to play, and we could concentrate on invitees who rarely/never get to go there (the AHA and the west).

The idea of hosting a tourney at LP, and thus making that a "home" site in March, is terrific, but I believe that place is booked solid with underage tourneys all through December. Maybe we could co-host with Clarkson and pump a little life into that rivalry. With Casey there the negotiations should be easy.

The LP youth tournaments Christmas-New Year week are a feeder into the CanAm Hockey summer program that keeps the Lake Placid Olympic Center rinks (there are three, one shared with figure skating) busy July and early August. The Xmas week youth tournaments keep the town going all week; a college tournament would get fans looking for 2 nights of lodging. The only downside to the youth tournaments is the wear and tear on hotel rooms in LP when there are four kids per room, even with hockey sticks left outside the hotel.

A tournament in Ithaca during the holiday week could be a recipe for 1,000-person attendance.

billhoward

Trotsky
I wouldn't mind seeing Cornell try to host a tourney a la the RPI Invitational. IIRC the arguments against it were the lack of lockerroom space and the generally shitty condition of the "back office" facilities, but those have been improved in the refurbishments.

Lynah is a fun, historic place to play, and we could concentrate on invitees who rarely/never get to go there (the AHA and the west).

The idea of hosting a tourney at LP, and thus making that a "home" site in March, is terrific, but I believe that place is booked solid with underage tourneys all through December. Maybe we could co-host with Clarkson and pump a little life into that rivalry. With Casey there the negotiations should be easy.

The LP youth tournaments Christmas-New Year week are a feeder into the CanAm Hockey summer program that keeps the Lake Placid Olympic Center rinks (there are three, one shared with figure skating) busy July and early August. The Xmas week youth tournaments keep the town going all week; a college tournament would get fans looking for 2 nights of lodging. The only downside to the youth tournaments is the wear and tear on hotel rooms in LP when there are four kids per room, even with hockey sticks left outside the hotel.

A tournament in Ithaca during the holiday week could be a recipe for 1,000-person attendance.

All good points.

It's not an easy problem, which is why we were toiling at the Syracuse War Memorial and other garden spots before we found Florida.

On the positive side, the warm weather, the long commute to Estero, and the holiday season provide three convenient variables to explain team performance. See above.

Hooking
On the positive side, the warm weather, the long commute to Estero, and the holiday season provide three convenient variables to explain team performance. See above.

billhoward

Trotsky
I wouldn't mind seeing Cornell try to host a tourney a la the RPI Invitational. IIRC the arguments against it were the lack of lockerroom space and the generally shitty condition of the "back office" facilities, but those have been improved in the refurbishments.

Lynah is a fun, historic place to play, and we could concentrate on invitees who rarely/never get to go there (the AHA and the west).

The idea of hosting a tourney at LP, and thus making that a "home" site in March, is terrific, but I believe that place is booked solid with underage tourneys all through December. Maybe we could co-host with Clarkson and pump a little life into that rivalry. With Casey there the negotiations should be easy.

The LP youth tournaments Christmas-New Year week are a feeder into the CanAm Hockey summer program that keeps the Lake Placid Olympic Center rinks (there are three, one shared with figure skating) busy July and early August. The Xmas week youth tournaments keep the town going all week; a college tournament would get fans looking for 2 nights of lodging.

I'll give you three guesses to figure out which Lake Placid rink Clarkson and RPI are playing this coming Saturday, then. Non-conference game. Could easily turn that into a tournament.

RichH
I'll give you three guesses to figure out which Lake Placid rink Clarkson and RPI are playing this coming Saturday, then. Non-conference game. Could easily turn that into a tournament.

Let's see what attendance is. As much as I love the idea it could be a valid concern.