ECAC Prelims

Poll

Will Cornell beat Union?

This poll has expired. Voting is no longer possible.
64 votes were received.

Yes in 2 Games	20		31%
Yes in 3 Games	32		50%
No	7		11%
I Don't Care	5		8%

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So let's start a discussion. The games are:

Princeton @ Dartmouth
Brown @ Harvard
Union @ Cornell
RPI @ Clarkson

I think we drew the toughest team, but I think we can beat them on home ice. I think any of the other series can easily have upsets. If we get past Union, I don't mind playing SLU, would like Colgate, feel we'd have some chance at Q, but want to stay away from Yale. Personally I think Yale may be the best team, at this time. I think they have the best coach in the league. He's probably the only ECAC coach that I'd put ahead of ours. Maybe SLU will turn out great, but it's too soon to tell.

What do you think about any of this?

I feel like we still have a run in us. Maybe not much of one, perhaps like two years ago where we just play a really good team tough.

I'd like to avoid Yale, though, I agree there.

Jim Hyla
So let's start a discussion. The games are:

Princeton @ Dartmouth
Brown @ Harvard
Union @ Cornell
RPI @ Clarkson

I think we drew the toughest team, but I think we can beat them on home ice. I think any of the other series can easily have upsets. If we get past Union, I don't mind playing SLU, would like Colgate, feel we'd have some chance at Q, but want to stay away from Yale. Personally I think Yale may be the best team, at this time. I think they have the best coach in the league. He's probably the only ECAC coach that I'd put ahead of ours. Maybe SLU will turn out great, but it's too soon to tell.

What do you think about any of this?

Dartmouth in 2
Brown in 3
Cornell in 3
RPI in 2

Princeton 0 @ Dartmouth 2
Brown 1 @ Harvard 2
Union 1 @ Cornell 2
RPI 2 @ Clarkson 1

Dartmouth will have no trouble at all.

The way Brown played the final 45 minutes against us they couldn't beat anybody. This will be the Bears losing, not the Crimson winning.

RPI and Clarkson is a crap-shoot, but if RPI could beat SLU last Saturday maybe they have a last gasp.

And that leaves us. I think this is a favorable matchup, based on the prior two meetings. We certainly have it in us to crap out a la 2007, but I think the seniors have just enough to prove that they can shake 2 wins out in 3 nights. If so, enjoy them, because the QF is going to be brutal unless Gillam steals one.

Dartmouth in 2
Sucks in 3
Cornell in 3
RPI in 3

We can set a team record for GP if we take the 1R and QF to 3 and then make it to the final.

Trotsky
We can set a team record for GP if we take the 1R and QF to 3 and then make it to the final.

Those are some big "ifs"!

I'm hard pressed to remember a year when I'd more NOT like to do that.

TimV
I'm hard pressed to remember a year when I'd more NOT like to do that.

If we can get to the final, we should be happy. It would mean a lot of excitement over the next 3 weekends.

with the ECAC the finals could be against princeton they way this conf works sometimes.

upprdeck
with the ECAC the finals could be against princeton they way this conf works sometimes.

That's okay with me.

Boxcast will be streaming the games. I assume they'll have archived games as well, but it doesn't look like there is an all tournament games price. $9.95/game

Jim Hyla
Boxcast will be streaming the games. I assume they'll have archived games as well, but it doesn't look like there is an all tournament games price. $9.95/game

Looks like the league pays $300 and earns $5/per person per game: [www.boxcast.com]

Chris '03

Jim Hyla
Boxcast will be streaming the games. I assume they'll have archived games as well, but it doesn't look like there is an all tournament games price. $9.95/game

Looks like the league pays $300 and earns $5/per person per game: [www.boxcast.com]

So it looks like the league decided that it was $9.95/game, not the provider. Priced sort of at the theoretical maximum before people start writing disgusted letters. That feels slimy.

A Q&A with Big Red play-by-play man Jason Weinstein ahead of this weekend's series:

[t.co]

It should be a great series, one that will likely go three games. I'd probably give Cornell a slight edge being on home ice, but it's pretty much a toss-up.

[cornellbigred.com]

Ken Schott's podcast on FoxSports Capital District. Union coach Rick Bennett's part starts around 13:30. No surprises.

Jim Hyla
Ken Schott's podcast on FoxSports Capital District. Union coach Rick Bennett's part starts around 13:30. No surprises.

Just once I'd like a coach's interview to contain a bunch of shocking surprises.

KeithK

Jim Hyla
Ken Schott's podcast on FoxSports Capital District. Union coach Rick Bennett's part starts around 13:30. No surprises.

Just once I'd like a coach's interview to contain a bunch of shocking surprises.

Like seeing MacBeth. After the first one, you're looking for nuances of difference.

Ken Schott on Union's win at Lynah during their first year in Div one.

OK, so what's the deal on streaming video tonight?

[elf.elynah.com]

Trotsky
OK, so what's the deal on streaming video tonight?

Scroll up I posted it $9.95/game.

Princeton has not won a road game all year...and I don't see that changing going into the tennis court today.

Jim Hyla
Ken Schott on Union's win at Lynah during their first year in Div one.

Ha ha very funny that never happened.

Not that it's surprising, given there's been nothing the entire season to suggest otherwise, but this team sucks.

It's just SO frustrating. I still look forward to the games, but more often than not the last couple of years I don't enjoy them. It's just not fun always hoping we can hold a one goal lead, or come back to tie. Why can't we get back to crushing OTHER peoples dreams again? We can't win because we STILL can't score worth a damn. If I had a nickel for every time Jason says "SHOOTS... wide."

I've been upbeat about the team all season, and I think they're a little better than their record (though the last couple weeks, things seem to be falling apart just a bit).

But it's pretty telling that I straight forgot that we had a playoff game tonight.

I have to admit, that I'm not surprised by tonight's loss. We're the best 7th seed in the tournament and also the worst 7th seed in the tournament, if that makes sense.

I'm not even that upset. After all, I really didn't hold out much hope that they'd make it to LP. So if they lose this weekend instead of next I learn one week sooner that I have five more days of vacation to work with this year (the days that I allocate every year for LP, the NCAA QF's and the Frozen Four).

Well. That could have gone better.

The Red played well for stretches -- for the first period it looked only a matter of time until Cornell got one. The second period collapse was a surprise, and then the shorty was horrendous.

The defense has been outplayed for three games running and Gillam has been poor in each of them. Schafer has few options for shaking up the D other than a goalie change. Stewart deserves the start tomorrow. Mitch was excellent this season but has gone cold at the wrong moment. That is why we have two.

One loss away from the most disappointing season in a while. Scary thought.

Trotsky
for the first period it looked only a matter of time until Cornell got one.

How many times in the past half decade has it looked like only a matter of time until Cornell gets one? (Spoiler: they never get one.)

BearLover

Trotsky
for the first period it looked only a matter of time until Cornell got one.

How many times in the past half decade has it looked like only a matter of time until Cornell gets one? (Spoiler: they never get one.)

Another spoiler: Then the defense makes a couple mistakes, they let in two in a span of about 5 minutes, and it's game over.

Not ECAC, but the UMass/Notre Dame playoff game last night went to 5 OT, surpassing Yale/Union from however many years ago. UMass got the game-winner on the road.

Jeff Hopkins '82

BearLover

Trotsky
for the first period it looked only a matter of time until Cornell got one.

How many times in the past half decade has it looked like only a matter of time until Cornell gets one? (Spoiler: they never get one.)

Another spoiler: Then the defense makes a couple mistakes, they let in two in a span of about 5 minutes, and it's game over.

Neither of those things appear likely to change (on a consistent basis) anytime soon. Tonight, however, would be a good night to go off script.

did anyone else not hear the whistle before the first goal? our section did. they the funny response from the ref as he froze before finnally waiving it good?

and the goal after ryan got his head ripped off didnt help either.

still 2 of the union goals were nice shots and the faceoff one clean goal too.

bardreau needs to score. had 5-6 clean chances with nothing to show.

what is the rule on a penalty shot? he was standing in front of the goalby himself when he got slashed from behind in the stomach and never got a shot? it doesnt have to be a breakway does it.

So I was watching the video highlights of the games last night and noticed the Harvard game had "no crowd". I suppose it's not a surprise, but really, 533 fans for a playoff game! Looks like most others, aside from ours, were sparsely attended as well. If fact our announced attendance of 3624, almost equalled the total of the other 3 games, 3863. What gives? I've often wondered why people who buy season tickets fail to show up for playoff games? It's not just this year, but most years.

Jim Hyla
So I was watching the video highlights of the games last night and noticed the Harvard game had "no crowd". I suppose it's not a surprise, but really, 533 fans for a playoff game! Looks like most others, aside from ours, were sparsely attended as well. If fact our announced attendance of 3624, almost equalled the total of the other 3 games, 3863. What gives? I've often wondered why people who buy season tickets fail to show up for playoff games? It's not just this year, but most years.

Jim, you forgot to consider the obvious reason, that Harvard spring break begins. I looked it up and, uh, it's not for another week.

Jim Hyla
So I was watching the video highlights of the games last night and noticed the Harvard game had "no crowd". I suppose it's not a surprise, but really, 533 fans for a playoff game! Looks like most others, aside from ours, were sparsely attended as well. If fact our announced attendance of 3624, almost equalled the total of the other 3 games, 3863. What gives? I've often wondered why people who buy season tickets fail to show up for playoff games? It's not just this year, but most years.

Interesting that RPI which isn't known for sellouts does OK with ECAC series. To bad they don't know how to drive to Albany to support the league. We'll see what happens next year when the regionals return.

The Cornell men's hockey team
But it's pretty telling that I straight forgot that we had a playoff game tonight.

upprdeck
did anyone else not hear the whistle before the first goal? our section did. they the funny response from the ref as he froze before finnally waiving it good?

and the goal after ryan got his head ripped off didnt help either.

still 2 of the union goals were nice shots and the faceoff one clean goal too.

bardreau needs to score. had 5-6 clean chances with nothing to show.

what is the rule on a penalty shot? he was standing in front of the goalby himself when he got slashed from behind in the stomach and never got a shot? it doesnt have to be a breakway does it.

If Bardreau could shoot better, he'd be the best Cornell player I've seen. As is, he's still very good, with a lot of missed opportunities.

Dafatone

upprdeck
did anyone else not hear the whistle before the first goal? our section did. they the funny response from the ref as he froze before finnally waiving it good?

and the goal after ryan got his head ripped off didnt help either.

still 2 of the union goals were nice shots and the faceoff one clean goal too.

bardreau needs to score. had 5-6 clean chances with nothing to show.

what is the rule on a penalty shot? he was standing in front of the goalby himself when he got slashed from behind in the stomach and never got a shot? it doesnt have to be a breakway does it.

If Bardreau could shoot better, he'd be the best Cornell player I've seen. As is, he's still very good, with a lot of missed opportunities.

Bardreau's biggest problem seems to be his inability to keep his shots down on the ice. That has remained a problem throughout his career. It's nice to be able to lift the puck like that. But, the goal is only four feet high......

It seems that, after his freshman year, he should have been sent home with orders to develop a drill to practice shooting at a lower target. What a sniper he could have been. This could have been fixed.

redice

Dafatone

upprdeck
did anyone else not hear the whistle before the first goal? our section did. they the funny response from the ref as he froze before finnally waiving it good?

and the goal after ryan got his head ripped off didnt help either.

still 2 of the union goals were nice shots and the faceoff one clean goal too.

bardreau needs to score. had 5-6 clean chances with nothing to show.

what is the rule on a penalty shot? he was standing in front of the goalby himself when he got slashed from behind in the stomach and never got a shot? it doesnt have to be a breakway does it.

If Bardreau could shoot better, he'd be the best Cornell player I've seen. As is, he's still very good, with a lot of missed opportunities.

Bardreau's biggest problem seems to be his inability to keep his shots down on the ice. That has remained a problem throughout his career. It's nice to be able to lift the puck like that. But, the goal is only four feet high......

It seems that, after his freshman year, he should have been sent home with orders to develop a drill to practice shooting at a lower target. What a sniper he could have been. This could have been fixed.

For all we know, he did exactly that, and still can't keep his shots down.

The guy who cleans the men's room at Dunbar's
For all we know, he did exactly that, and still can't keep his shots down.

killer player last night were we had 2 guys all alone out front, made the nice pass and one tipped it from the other and the shot went 2 ft over the cross bar.. add in the non call on the ryan head shot and the half a dozen missed from pt blank.

but if they play with that 3rd period energy all game they have a pretty good shot even with a team that cant shoot straight.

one bad 10 min stretch just compounded the loss last night they were the better team most of the game.

Dafatone

If Bardreau could shoot better, he'd be the best Cornell player I've seen. As is, he's still very good, with a lot of missed opportunities.

Badreau is generally really creative in what he tries to do with the puck and with the passes he attempts. If anything, he is perhaps sometimes too creative. But he had one chance last night where if he had just made a move to his left it would have been a certain goal. It was in the second period, and he somehow wound up in front of the goal, with the puck, but almost on top of the goalie, who had the angle. Bardreau had the space and time to move left and shoot, and if he had the goalie would have been beaten, but instead Bardreau took the quick shot right into the goalie's chest. I don't think there was really any way any player could have gotten the puck past the goalie shooting from that position with the goalie positioned where he was. I'm sure Bardreau just didn't realize he had enough time and space to make a move.

Game 2: Fiegl and Tiitenen out; Stoick and Yates in. Stewart in net.

Had no idea this happened last night.

cornell again plenty of chances.. union with 2 bad rebound deflected goals and one nice 5x3 after a questionable cornell penalty.

upprdeck
cornell again plenty of chances.. union with 2 bad rebound deflected goals and one nice 5x3 after a questionable cornell penalty.

The question was why did he spear the defender in the goal.

did he? the radio claimed he was slashed and then ran into the goalie?

It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

hard to believe union has 8 goals and i dont know if one them came on a possession of more than 5-6 secs. no puck possession the whole series but the goalie for union played much better than cornells and that was the real story of game one. i dont think this is a system issue as much as a goal scoring issue. plenty of good chances both games. im not sure you could get better chances from better spots, but cornell has few guys who can go one on one and thats the big gap between thes teams. now with all the injuries the D is breaking down every game and that makes it look even worse.

Glad I was focused on the wrestling. Good news over there.

This is so sad. There are wake up calls and then there's this. I was an undergrad for Q in '07 and that hurt so much. Ouch. I liked how dangerous this team seemed in EAG situations, but this is so bad.

how we not score on that short handed play. surprised no penalty either as clearly the cornell guy was hacked. wonder where the puck went. they didnt bother with a review so it must have been obvios even with the red light going on

Clearly, something has to change. A system built from the net outward cannot give up five unanswered goals in two periods and be anything other than a joke.

Kyle Rose
Clearly, something has to change. A system built from the net outward cannot give up five unanswered goals in two periods and be anything other than a joke.

I suspect Schafer will blame the players for not motivating themselves.

Been saying it all year: this team is not good. There is NOTHING to suggest this team is good. I have no idea why people on these forums thought it was good.

And you think this is bad? Thanks to tradition and Lynah, the talent has still been there. Well, now Yale and Union have won the past two years and no one shows up at Lynah anymore. The best players on this team are almost all seniors. Would not be surprised if the remaining draft picks jumped to the pros to learn how to actually score. This is going downhill and it's going downhill fast.

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

that explains why cornell had the same attendence as the other 3 games combined.. things were much worse before SS came and now we are just middling. but its far from bad. do we really expect to win every year? our off years we are top 8.. union was worse coming off a NT.

for all this game blow turns into.. we had 2 breakways turn into no goals and a penalty that turned into a goal for union. we had a shorty empty net turn into new goal. thats a 4-3 game as bad as we played.. if we score the 5x3 never happens .

flat out though we need to find guys who can score when our best player rarely score from all alone 5-10 ft out. zero goals this series and multiple all alone chances.

In '94 We were chanting "McCutcheon Must Go". I wouldn't be surprised if the undergrads will be calling for Shafer's job soon. It's a shame given how close his team's were in the early 2000's but either the game has passed his style of play by or his ability to recruit players capable of succeeding in his system has significantly diminished. Either way a dramatic change is needed to right the ship.

Can we just make Doug Derraugh the men's coach?

MattShaf
It's a shame given how close his team's were in the early 2000's

Not a shame at all! We got to see Yale and Union win it all the past two years, so our excruciating near-misses have all been worth it.

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

Dafatone

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

He meant rock bottom for our program. Because it makes no sense in college sports, where success builds on success and coaches stay forever, to judge "rock bottom" by finish relative to everyone else. Kentucky basketball hits rock bottom when they finish above .500. Cornell Hockey hits rock bottom when they finish below .500 with a horrific ECAC tournament. Moreover, when you judge "rock bottom" not by just the current year, but by the sum of all recent years, I would much rather be Wisconsin right now.

Dafatone

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

Are you even watching this game? It's a joke. At this point, I'm sick of making excuses for this program. This is my last year as a Coach's Club member until something changes. I just can't pretend I support how things are going.

Kyle Rose

Dafatone

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

Are you even watching this game? It's a joke. At this point, I'm sick of making excuses for this program. This is my last year as a Coach's Club member until something changes. I just can't pretend I support how things are going.

Watching, no. Listening, yes.

It's a bad end to a bad year. I just think we should keep things in perspective. This is the worst year we've had in what, 15 seasons or more? (I'm putting this one below almost knocking out Q a couple years ago). Plenty of teams have worse years. In fact, very few haven't.

Years from now people may recall how tough it is to defeat the previous year's national champions. Not that Union was almost at the bottom of the ECAC standings.

BearLover

Dafatone

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

He meant rock bottom for our program. Because it makes no sense in college sports, where success builds on success and coaches stay forever, to judge "rock bottom" by finish relative to everyone else. Kentucky basketball hits rock bottom when they finish above .500. Cornell Hockey hits rock bottom when they finish below .500 with a horrific ECAC tournament. Moreover, when you judge "rock bottom" not by just the current year, but by the sum of all recent years, I would much rather be Wisconsin right now.

Sure, but I think Wisconsin demonstrates that success doesn't always build on success and that we've been lulled, somewhat, into an assumption that other good teams always stay good because we've done that, for the most part.

I'm not saying that changes wouldn't be good (if it were up to me, Schafer would come back next year, but he's officially moved from "schafer4lyfe" to "worth keeping an eye on". I just think a lot of us have lost perspective because of 15 very good years.

Dafatone

BearLover

Dafatone

ScrewBU

ithacat
It's all about skating and scoring. This system has been dead for years. Please bury it now.

Yep. If this isn't rock bottom, what is? If this doesn't convince them that their joke of a system doesn't work, what will? Finishing dead last with the "#1 defense in the country?"

Coach wants to know why students only show up for the Harvard game? Why WOULD they go to the other games? To watch them have a hard time beating the worst teams in the league, and not even compete against the top ones anymore? To watch them shoot the puck wide of the net for 60 minutes? To watch the dumb penalty parade? To watch the coach embarrass the university by throwing a hissy fit after the game? It's the same shit, year after year, only worse, without any improvement. No f'ing thanks.

He needs to go, and they need to bring in someone that understands the modern game (speed, skating, getting the puck on net) and not someone that uses Slapshot as a base of reference.

Rock bottom? Really? Really?

We finished in 7th out of 12 in the ECAC. Obviously not what we wanted, but how is that rock bottom?

Rock bottom is finishing in 12th. Rock bottom is going 4-23-4, as Wisconsin finished this year. And they're a big program that's used to success.

Whining that things couldn't possibly be worse because we went just under .500 and finished cold is absurd.

He meant rock bottom for our program. Because it makes no sense in college sports, where success builds on success and coaches stay forever, to judge "rock bottom" by finish relative to everyone else. Kentucky basketball hits rock bottom when they finish above .500. Cornell Hockey hits rock bottom when they finish below .500 with a horrific ECAC tournament. Moreover, when you judge "rock bottom" not by just the current year, but by the sum of all recent years, I would much rather be Wisconsin right now.

Sure, but I think Wisconsin demonstrates that success doesn't always build on success and that we've been lulled, somewhat, into an assumption that other good teams always stay good because we've done that, for the most part.

I'm not saying that changes wouldn't be good (if it were up to me, Schafer would come back next year, but he's officially moved from "schafer4lyfe" to "worth keeping an eye on". I just think a lot of us have lost perspective because of 15 very good years.

Is it losing perspective, or seeing the light? When two teams in our conference with awful tradition and awful fans win the national championship in back-to-back years while we regress, it becomes apparent that circumstances have changed. Very few people on this forum are not extremely grateful for what Schafer has done. But that does not equate to wanting him to stay.

Even if this isn't rock-bottom, there is no reason to wait to see if we reach that point before a change is made.

And don't forget: during Schafer's entire tenure, we were NEVER able to beat the fast and skilled teams. Sometimes we'd get lucky and Yale would get upset and we'd dodge them in the ECAC's, and sometimes we'd get paired against Michigan instead of Minnesota in the NCAA's. But whenever we'd ultimately play against these quicker teams, we'd get horribly outplayed, just about every single time. That is to say, there is an entire type of team that Cornell has never been capable of beating during Schafer's tenure. It's a problem that never went away, and under this system it never will.

Dafatone
Watching, no. Listening, yes.

It's a bad end to a bad year. I just think we should keep things in perspective. This is the worst year we've had in what, 15 seasons or more? (I'm putting this one below almost knocking out Q a couple years ago). Plenty of teams have worse years. In fact, very few haven't.

Let me be clear: losing by itself is not the issue. It's *how* Cornell is losing. If they lost a close-fought series on the backs of mostly shut-down defense and some tragically missed shots, that would be one thing; but they are getting blown away by teams that walk all over whatever our supposed system is.

Enough. Something has to change. I'm not even qualified to say exactly what that is, but I do know it doesn't look like what Cornell is running right now.

Kyle Rose

Dafatone
Watching, no. Listening, yes.

It's a bad end to a bad year. I just think we should keep things in perspective. This is the worst year we've had in what, 15 seasons or more? (I'm putting this one below almost knocking out Q a couple years ago). Plenty of teams have worse years. In fact, very few haven't.

Let me be clear: losing by itself is not the issue. It's *how* Cornell is losing. If they lost a close-fought series on the backs of mostly shut-down defense and some tragically missed shots, that would be one thing; but they are getting blown away by teams that walk all over whatever our supposed system is.

Enough. Something has to change. I'm not even qualified to say exactly what that is, but I do know it doesn't look like what Cornell is running right now.

Something just doesn't feel right about the direction of the team. It's starting to feel like we're stuck in a decaying building with a withering program. I don't think this is close to rock bottom. We lose 4 of the top 10 scorers with more of the same coming in next season. Players don't seem to improve that much over the years any more. We can't score on breakaways. We can't score on penalty shots. We generally can't find the back door with a map and seem to have little understanding of how to run a two on one...how many years do we have to groan through this power play? Team speed?

We stopped our Coaches Club membership last year. Can't see giving the program $500 (on top of our season tickets) for what is basically dump and chase hockey with lipstick.

In 2012, only three years ago, we were 2nd in the ECAC with a +20 goal differential. We finished that season 10 games over .500 and within a whisper of the Frozen Four.

Still, 2013 - 2015 have been three frustrating and depressing years. Even though we were 4th last year, our goal differential was +1, only 2 goals better than this season. 2015 just ended very, very badly. We lose our three best players (Lowry was already gone while Ryan and Bardreau just played their final game). As of right now there is no reason to think 2016 will be any better.

I have fiercely defended Schafer through this 3-year downturn. Now, with the passing of the Class of '15, which I thought had much more in it, we have reached a potential inflection point. The last time we were in this position was 1999. We had just potted out of the First Round under extremely embarrassing and alarming circumstances, with a winning percentage of .452 -- exactly the same as this year's. That was the point at which Schafer's great run and Cornell's "Silver Age" began. In 2000 they turned upwards to .531, followed by .561, .743, and .847 in 2003.

If he can turn things around (1) we'll all be extremely happy and (2) he'll have earned another free pass. If not, I'll join the group calling for change.

Hopefully there are two McRaes, a Bâby, and a Murray somewhere among these guys.

I'm not calling for him to be fired yet. I think a lot of this grousing is unfair. But this season was shit and it wasn't the first.

I just read the USCHO game recap. Fascinating quote from Schafer: "I tried to make some changes this year, and they failed miserably. We've got to go back to the drawing board. I did one thing a certain way for 19 years, then I changed something this year, but I'm going back to it next year."

Is he implying that he tried to open things up this year? Hard to imagine that, but what else could he be saying?

Schafer probably has a tough time recruiting goal scorers. Offensively-minded junior hockey guys who want to make a good impression on people in the NHL are unlikely to choose Cornell. They know they are going to be required to stick with Mike's disciplined approach.

On the subject of discipline, Mike should be given a lot of credit for keeping the team clean. No Cornell player has ever fractured their foot during an after hours swimming pool event.

Mike's comments:

[www.youtube.com]

Icy
Mike's comments:

[www.youtube.com]

"...I have to go back to what I really believe in..."
So Schafer's plan is to scrap whatever new ideas he had and go back to the previous system. To me this says he has no clue how to change/adapt. I have no faith that things are going to improve.

Trotsky
If he can turn things around (1) we'll all be extremely happy and (2) he'll have earned another free pass. If not, I'll join the group calling for change.

At some point, you just have to accept that this may be another Richie Moran situation, with the coach's glory days two decades behind him when he finally passes the torch. Moran, like Schafer, had some success in his second (and third) decade, but nothing like his dominance in the early part of his career.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
If he can turn things around (1) we'll all be extremely happy and (2) he'll have earned another free pass. If not, I'll join the group calling for change.

At some point, you just have to accept that this may be another Richie Moran situation, with the coach's glory days two decades behind him when he finally passes the torch. Moran, like Schafer, had some success in his second (and third) decade, but nothing like his dominance in the early part of his career.

I understand that. You may have found the perfect analogy. Part of the "turnaround" has to be an adaptation to the new conditions of the college game. If we see retrenchment, even if the record improves that does not constitute progress.

To pile on: Cornell was originally the first choice of a quality player who chose another ECAC school. He lost interest in Cornell when, during his visit, he said Shafer was "too proud of himself" - and the player didn't want to be associated with someone who thought himself to be "a legend".

BearLover

Icy
Mike's comments:

[www.youtube.com]

"...I have to go back to what I really believe in..."
So Schafer's plan is to scrap whatever new ideas he had and go back to the previous system. To me this says he has no clue how to change/adapt. I have no faith that things are going to improve.

I think the reality is that he tried something new because what he was doing no longer worked as well as it once did. Going back is not the answer. I am afraid we will have to wander in the wilderness a while.

Towerroad

BearLover

Icy
Mike's comments:

[www.youtube.com]

"...I have to go back to what I really believe in..."
So Schafer's plan is to scrap whatever new ideas he had and go back to the previous system. To me this says he has no clue how to change/adapt. I have no faith that things are going to improve.

I think the reality is that he tried something new because what he was doing no longer worked as well as it once did. Going back is not the answer. I am afraid we will have to wander in the wilderness a while.

If we throw this year out because it was a different system, then I'm not convinced that the old system's lack of success over the past five years is more than a random lull. Even including this year, we've been above average, as a whole, for the past five or six. That being said, there's a clear downward trend.

Strategically speaking, anyone have an idea what we did differently this season? The numbers obviously look more defensive, not less. At least until the last month or so. It did seem like our defensemen were pinching more often, but that's about all I noticed.

Dafatone

Towerroad

BearLover

Icy
Mike's comments:

[www.youtube.com]

"...I have to go back to what I really believe in..."
So Schafer's plan is to scrap whatever new ideas he had and go back to the previous system. To me this says he has no clue how to change/adapt. I have no faith that things are going to improve.

I think the reality is that he tried something new because what he was doing no longer worked as well as it once did. Going back is not the answer. I am afraid we will have to wander in the wilderness a while.

If we throw this year out because it was a different system, then I'm not convinced that the old system's lack of success over the past five years is more than a random lull. Even including this year, we've been above average, as a whole, for the past five or six. That being said, there's a clear downward trend.

Strategically speaking, anyone have an idea what we did differently this season? The numbers obviously look more defensive, not less. At least until the last month or so. It did seem like our defensemen were pinching more often, but that's about all I noticed.

I thought we got more quality chances this year, but were unable to bury the vast majority of them. I don't think the solution is to go back to the "old way" with the same type of players, but instead is to recruit more kids who can put the puck in the net.

Juggernaut
To pile on: Cornell was originally the first choice of a quality player who chose another ECAC school. He lost interest in Cornell when, during his visit, he said Shafer was "too proud of himself" - and the player didn't want to be associated with someone who thought himself to be "a legend".

Care to provide the name of the recruit so someone can verify this story?

This sort of unsubstantiated anonymous character assassination is "evidence" of the lowest order. And frankly, it's beside the point: Schafer could fancy himself the Vince Lombardi of college hockey, or be the meekest person on earth, and it would have very little effect on my opinion. If he's winning games, he can stay; if he's not, then he should move on and let someone else try. Results are what matter here, and he's been trying unsuccessfully to right the ship for the better part of a decade now. At this point I have no reason to believe he has any idea what the problems with this team even are, much less an idea of how to fix them.

We still have the best fan base. We didn't equal the total, but were the largest (and the best).

Ours 3791
Hvd 662
Clk 1496
Dart 2102

Jim Hyla
We still have the best fan base. We didn't equal the total, but were the largest (and the best).

Ours 3791
Hvd 662
Clk 1496
Dart 2102

That number is still a disgrace, given that it's the playoffs. Those teams have terrible fans--good for them--but a packed Lynah is the best recruiting tool we have. If you read the interviews with the players on the team, 100% of them list the crowd as one of the major reasons they chose Cornell.

BearLover

Jim Hyla
We still have the best fan base. We didn't equal the total, but were the largest (and the best).

Ours 3791
Hvd 662
Clk 1496
Dart 2102

That number is still a disgrace, given that it's the playoffs. Those teams have terrible fans--good for them--but a packed Lynah is the best recruiting tool we have. If you read the interviews with the players on the team, 100% of them list the crowd as one of the major reasons they chose Cornell.

3791, with a year like we had, is a disgrace? No, the best recruiting tool is a team that does well and a coaching staff that the players believe in. We can add to that, but without the rest forget it.

I'm surprised nobody here mentioned *what* the change was.

Watch the interview- they asked specifically what was the change that he was talking about, and he answered: it was the forecheck. He changed the forecheck to get more offense and it just didn't work out. He's going back.

God, the interview after his is brutal. So sorry for the seniors.

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla
We still have the best fan base. We didn't equal the total, but were the largest (and the best).

Ours 3791
Hvd 662
Clk 1496
Dart 2102

That number is still a disgrace, given that it's the playoffs. Those teams have terrible fans--good for them--but a packed Lynah is the best recruiting tool we have. If you read the interviews with the players on the team, 100% of them list the crowd as one of the major reasons they chose Cornell.

3791, with a year like we had, is a disgrace? No, the best recruiting tool is a team that does well and a coaching staff that the players believe in. We can add to that, but without the rest forget it.

The attendance/noise was equally bad at the start of the year.

BearLover

Jim Hyla

BearLover

Jim Hyla
We still have the best fan base. We didn't equal the total, but were the largest (and the best).

Ours 3791
Hvd 662
Clk 1496
Dart 2102

That number is still a disgrace, given that it's the playoffs. Those teams have terrible fans--good for them--but a packed Lynah is the best recruiting tool we have. If you read the interviews with the players on the team, 100% of them list the crowd as one of the major reasons they chose Cornell.

3791, with a year like we had, is a disgrace? No, the best recruiting tool is a team that does well and a coaching staff that the players believe in. We can add to that, but without the rest forget it.

The attendance/noise was equally bad at the start of the year.

I still think that has more to do with the administration taking the teeth out of Lynah than team success (we were loud and not great in, say, the 90s, right?) or smartphones. But there are a lot of factors, obviously.

+1

Great reply on right on point. Do you believe that the program improve with Shafer as the coach or not. That is the criterion that matters, nothing else IMO.

Matt

RPI takes the only game 3 in this round. They'll be sticking around North Country some more next weekend.