Alumni in the pros -- December 2014

This actually happened in November, but no one posted it, so here it is -- better late than never. The Edmonton Oilers fired their goaltending coach on Nov. 24. A few days later, a frustrated Scrivens spoke out after another Oilers loss.
"We’re getting what we deserve right now,” Scrivens said after the 4-3 overtime loss to the St. Louis Blues. “I don’t think we’re playing good enough to win in the NHL.”
Switching topics, I'm watching the Buffalo Sabres tonight in hopes of seeing Moulson score a goal. Does anyone else think the Sabres' home uniforms are ugly?

dbilmes
Does anyone else think the Sabres' home uniforms are ugly?

Without even checking, they must be wearing their 3rd jerseys tonight, because their homes are the classic-style blue.

Not this crime against humanity.

Third jerseys are by definition awful, but that's not terrible.

Now this is terrible.

Trotsky
Third jerseys are by definition awful, but that's not terrible.

Now this is terrible.

I'm not always one to rag on jerseys. For example, I don't much mind those third Buffalo jerseys, at least as far as rarely-used jerseys go.

But that Islanders one is hideous.

........and discontinued

AFAIC, they can wear whatever they want if they keep playing this way.

Jordan 04
AFAIC, they can wear whatever they want if they keep playing this way.

Seconded.

Trotsky
Third jerseys are by definition awful, but that's not terrible.

Now this is terrible.

That's terrible even for an Islanders jersey, which is saying something.

This is the closest kids today will ever get to seeing what it was like watching Topher Scott play.

Miscellaneous thoughts:
1) With Paul MacLean out as Ottawa coach, will Colin Greening escape for the doghouse? He's been a healthy scratch for most games.
2) Don't know how many noticed, but Adam Lowry (Joel's younger brother by 16 months) is a rookie with the Winnipeg Jets. He's been playing regularly and in 27 games he's 2g 2a -3 28 PIM. Adam went the Jr. A route.

jkahn
Miscellaneous thoughts:
1) With Paul MacLean out as Ottawa coach, will Colin Greening escape for the doghouse? He's been a healthy scratch for most games.
2) Don't know how many noticed, but Adam Lowry (Joel's younger brother by 16 months) is a rookie with the Winnipeg Jets. He's been playing regaularly and in 27 games he's 2g 2a -3 28 PIM. Adam went the Jr. A route.

After playing in only 8 of the first 27 games, Colin Greening is in the lineup for new coach Dave Cameron's first game tonight,

Moulson scored the first goal and the game winner for Buffalo's 4-3 win over Calgary tonight.

Poor Scrivens. The mess in Edmonton continues.

This doesn't exactly fit in this topic, but I didn't feel like creating a new topic for it. In any case, some sad news about Joe Nieuwendyk's sister.

Poor Scrivens again. Two losses in his last two starts, while giving up only three goals. And 42 saves on 44 attempts last night, above .950

The whole W-L for a goalie (or a pitcher in baseball) makes no sense. If a goalie gives up two goals or less and saves 90% or more of their shots, the goalie should not be pegged with a loss. Your team's lack of scoring is the reason for the loss, not the goalie.

Similarly, if you give up four or more goals and save less than 85% of shot attempts, you should not get a W if your team wins.

margolism
Poor Scrivens again. Two losses in his last two starts, while giving up only three goals. And 42 saves on 44 attempts last night, above .950

The whole W-L for a goalie (or a pitcher in baseball) makes no sense. If a goalie gives up two goals or less and saves 90% or more of their shots, the goalie should not be pegged with a loss. Your team's lack of scoring is the reason for the loss, not the goalie.

Similarly, if you give up four or more goals and save less than 85% of shot attempts, you should not get a W if your team wins.

Why stop there? Why not weigh the SV% based on the quality of the opponents, and of your defense? You make a good argument for keeping wins or losses for the goalie at all, but "you get a win if your team wins, unless you played badly" seems like a step backwards.

I'm thinking small steps - highly unlikely that W-L would be eliminated entirely. At least this approach doesn't penalize (or award) a goalie based on stellar (or lousy) performance.

I think W-L for in hockey for a goalie is especially unimportant. Here's an idea - maybe a goalie gets points based on the stars of the game. 5 pts = #1 star, 3 pts = #2 star, 1 pt = #3 star. That is more performance driven, reflecting the context of the game, albeit subjective, obviously. Nonetheless, if your team wins 6-5 and the goalie on the winning team make 8 of 13 saves, I seriously doubt he would be awarded one of the game's three stars. Scrivens has received stars of the game in a number of his losses. It would actually be interesting to apply this approach to all NHL players, and rank them at the end of the season using this scoring.

It's kind of a crime that Gillam has 3 "losses." His "4-3-1" on its own looks quite average, and does't come close to reflecting that he is #2 in the country in both save % and GAA. In those three Cornell losses, I think one could easily argue that he kept Cornell in the game. A loss implies "it's all your fault" which is what I hate about that dumb metric.

I think weighing SV% based on oppoonent quality, and of your defense, is a good idea, but becomes hard to report on a daily basis for a layperson. It is, however, more indicative of performance.

margolism
It's kind of a crime that Gillam has 3 "losses." His "4-3-1" on its own looks quite average, and does't come close to reflecting that he is #2 in the country in both save % and GAA. In those three Cornell losses, I think one could easily argue that he kept Cornell in the game. A loss implies "it's all your fault" which is what I hate about that dumb metric.

...except that it doesn't imply that at all, because anybody who knows even the tiniest bit about hockey knows that your team has to score more goals than the other team to win games. Do you really think there are pro scouts out there looking at Gillam and dismissing him because he has a 4-3-1 record, rather than also noticing his Save % and GAA, and/or watching film? We keep track of a goalie's wins and losses because it's another stat that's helpful in context, not because anybody thinks it's a completely objective standard by which to judge them.

Beeeej

margolism
It's kind of a crime that Gillam has 3 "losses." His "4-3-1" on its own looks quite average, and does't come close to reflecting that he is #2 in the country in both save % and GAA. In those three Cornell losses, I think one could easily argue that he kept Cornell in the game. A loss implies "it's all your fault" which is what I hate about that dumb metric.

...except that it doesn't imply that at all, because anybody who knows even the tiniest bit about hockey knows that your team has to score more goals than the other team to win games. Do you really think there are pro scouts out there looking at Gillam and dismissing him because he has a 4-3-1 record, rather than also noticing his Save % and GAA, and/or watching film? We keep track of a goalie's wins and losses because it's another stat that's helpful in context, not because anybody thinks it's a completely objective standard by which to judge them.

Exactly. The fact that a stat isn't a perfect reflection of a player's natural ability or performance or the fact that another stat gives a better measure of such doesn't make it useless or uninteresting to track.

KeithK

Beeeej

margolism
It's kind of a crime that Gillam has 3 "losses." His "4-3-1" on its own looks quite average, and does't come close to reflecting that he is #2 in the country in both save % and GAA. In those three Cornell losses, I think one could easily argue that he kept Cornell in the game. A loss implies "it's all your fault" which is what I hate about that dumb metric.

...except that it doesn't imply that at all, because anybody who knows even the tiniest bit about hockey knows that your team has to score more goals than the other team to win games. Do you really think there are pro scouts out there looking at Gillam and dismissing him because he has a 4-3-1 record, rather than also noticing his Save % and GAA, and/or watching film? We keep track of a goalie's wins and losses because it's another stat that's helpful in context, not because anybody thinks it's a completely objective standard by which to judge them.

Exactly. The fact that a stat isn't a perfect reflection of a player's natural ability or performance or the fact that another stat gives a better measure of such doesn't make it useless or uninteresting to track.

But it probably is useless.

I don't think there are actual NHL GMs who look at a goalie's W-L record anymore. But SV% is a pretty good metric by which to evaluate goalies--or at least it factors into some of the advanced stats.

Andy Iles is back in Florida. He signed with the Florida Everblades (ECHL) early in the month and played in his first game on December 19th winning 5-3 with a 23 save performance. Everblades win 7th straight.

Ben #1 star in 3-2 Shootout win over LA Kings last night. 39 saves plus 4-4 in shootout. Back in net tonite vs. Flames.

It's a bit of a belated report, but Colin Greening finally scored his first goal of the season earlier in the week, although he didn't actually put it in the net. He was taken down on a breakaway towards Buffalo's empty net, and thus the goal was awarded automatically. Not the most glamorous of opportunities to cash in, but at least he's finally off the schneid.