Attendance at Lynah

How disappointing was it to see section A last Saturday night ? Not sure what else might have been going on but I counted 29 bodies plus the band in section A 10 minutes into the 1st period. It did get a little better during the second period, but not even close to 1/2 full. There are other pockets of empty seats for every home game in section F and G.

It won't be long and the much ballyhooed belief that Lynah is an intimidating place to play will be just a distant memory.

Cop at Lynah
How disappointing was it to see section A last Saturday night ? Not sure what else might have been going on but I counted 29 bodies plus the band in section A 10 minutes into the 1st period. It did get a little better during the second period, but not even close to 1/2 full. There are other pockets of empty seats for every home game in section F and G.

It won't be long and the much ballyhooed belief that Lynah is an intimidating place to play will be just a distant memory.

Winning a few games would help.

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
How disappointing was it to see section A last Saturday night ? Not sure what else might have been going on but I counted 29 bodies plus the band in section A 10 minutes into the 1st period. It did get a little better during the second period, but not even close to 1/2 full. There are other pockets of empty seats for every home game in section F and G.

It won't be long and the much ballyhooed belief that Lynah is an intimidating place to play will be just a distant memory.

Winning a few games would help.

Sure, but things were fading even 4-5 years ago, when we were playing pretty good hockey. I still think a lot of it is the behavior crackdown. I mean, there's about a dozen other factors, too. Cracking down on swearing is one thing. Harassing students over being loud/obnoxious is another.

it's a nationwide problem across all sports though

why pay money to go to a hockey game when you can sit at home and text or tweet with your friends while you watch whatever show or movie on Hulu or Netflix? And drink. Kids these days....grouse, grouse, grouse.

Sec B is about all that's left of the once entertaining student Faithful. Even during dull games watching the students was worth the price of admission. Now we just have high-priced tickets, boring offensive play, and thuggish on ice behavior. I guess three out of four isn't so bad.

underskill
it's a nationwide problem across all sports though

Let's call it a trend rather than a problem. Entertainment is obviously going to change with technology and culture. The decline of going out to watch other people play sports as a national pastime was probably inevitable given (1) internet, (2) social networking that allows peers to communicate without meeting in large groups, (3) greater health consciousness, (4) longer working hours, etc...

In 50 years college hockey may look like this again.

Trotsky


In 50 years college hockey may look like this again.

You mean the crowds will once again be Standing Room Only?

And everybody stands for the whole game. Now that is some serious Faithfulness.

I can say that this year there has definitely been a significant and quite noticeable improvement in the students in Section D. I sit in C, on the aisle with D. The last couple of years I've noticed just how pathetic the students in Section D had become. As an example, almost none of them would even bother to stand for the Alma Mater, much less get together and sway, etc. This year, though pretty clueless at the beginning of the season, they are at least making an effort. Sure, they were chanting "Go, Red, Go" when we were killing a penalty and A and B were chanting "Kill, Red, Kill", but they were trying--they just couldn't hear, and didn't know any better. They'll figure it out. They still seem to want to speed up clapping during the cowbell, but it's probably because they can't actually hear the cowbell--they just hear people clapping, and start clapping along and then start clapping faster. But at least they are making an effort, which is more than they were doing the last couple of years. Perhaps most importantly, a good number of them are standing for the Alma Mater. I am optimistic.

dag14
why pay money to go to a hockey game when you can sit at home and text or tweet with your friends while you watch whatever show or movie on Hulu or Netflix? And drink. Kids these days....grouse, grouse, grouse.

I wonder if kids at Cornell are going out more or less in general than they used to. Not that that's an easy question to answer.

Trotsky
And everybody stands for the whole game. Now that is some serious Faithfulness.

Sorry to say, but the most dedicated Cornell student hockey fans I've seen--who stood outside in the cold before 6:30 when games started at 8:00 or they wouldn't get into the rink--didn't "stand for the whole game." That's a bogus criterion for "Faithfulness."

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
And everybody stands for the whole game. Now that is some serious Faithfulness.

Sorry to say, but the most dedicated Cornell student hockey fans I've seen--who stood outside in the cold before 6:30 when games started at 8:00 or they wouldn't get into the rink--didn't "stand for the whole game." That's a bogus criterion for "Faithfulness."

No, clearly it is the standing. It's the standing (outside) that truly marked the fans you are referring to. We'll cut 'em some slack for sitting once they got inside. but only a little. Clearly it's only the standing that matters.

You realize the comment was a joke related to the lack of seats around Beebe Lake, right?

ithacat
Now we just have high-priced tickets, boring offensive play, and thuggish on ice behavior. I guess three out of four isn't so bad.

I think this is correct. With the addition of not winning. Most of the students are not avid hockey fans, at least to start, so when the team is losing it's tough to spend the money and watch a dull team when there are so many other things to occupy their time. I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase. I think that students would return some if Schafer opened up the style and at least make it entertaining to lose. If a team is going to lose, I think it would be more entertaining for the new and average fan.

MattS
I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase.

Me too, and I never thought I'd say Cornell hockey was boring me.

i dont think the games have been that boring, just not high scoring. not for lack of chances though. the 4-2 slu game could have just as easily been 6-4 cornell with all the chances CU had. would that have made it more exciting just because they scored on the breakaways?

Trotsky

MattS
I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase.

Me too, and I never thought I'd say Cornell hockey was boring me.

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

I don't have carry in vs. dump in stats, but here are SOG, with + being we outshot the opp, - the opposite and = the same.

UNO 30 -
UNO 33 +
PU 41 +
Q 18 -( 1 shot in third per)
Clk 29 +
SLU 23 =

No, it doesn't prove anything, but most games we have decent shot totals. Now if someone wants to gather stats, such as % carry in, from all games, please do.

upprdeck
i dont think the games have been that boring, just not high scoring. not for lack of chances though. the 4-2 slu game could have just as easily been 6-4 cornell with all the chances CU had. would that have made it more exciting just because they scored on the breakaways?

I think for the novice fan (read: relatively uneducated at hockey Cornell student) yes it would have been more exciting if CU scored more. What's more fun, "oh damn" after an almost goal or cheering like crazy after an actual goal?

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

MattS
I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase.

Me too, and I never thought I'd say Cornell hockey was boring me.

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

I don't have carry in vs. dump in stats, but here are SOG, with + being we outshot the opp, - the opposite and = the same.

UNO 30 -
UNO 33 +
PU 41 +
Q 18 -( 1 shot in third per)
Clk 29 +
SLU 23 =

No, it doesn't prove anything, but most games we have decent shot totals. Now if someone wants to gather stats, such as % carry in, from all games, please do.

If anything, from the games I've listened to and/or seen (not many so far this year, to be fair), it sounds like we're occasionally trying too hard to be fancy. Too many passes on the PP trying for one timers, for instance. I'm not one of those people that yells "shoot!" over and over (it turns out my dad is. Augh), but working the puck down low or driving to the net are options.

And while sure, "winning" would draw more fans, it's not like the team's been losing a lot. We've been over .500 every year but one for a long time. How was student attendance in past times when we actually lost a lot?

I don't think it's losing per se, the program has just felt stuck in neutral the past few years, maybe the fourth or fifth best program in the conference since 2010.

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

MattS
I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase.

Me too, and I never thought I'd say Cornell hockey was boring me.

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

I don't have carry in vs. dump in stats, but here are SOG, with + being we outshot the opp, - the opposite and = the same.

UNO 30 -
UNO 33 +
PU 41 +
Q 18 -( 1 shot in third per)
Clk 29 +
SLU 23 =

No, it doesn't prove anything, but most games we have decent shot totals. Now if someone wants to gather stats, such as % carry in, from all games, please do.

Ok, maybe not completely dump and chase, but compared to other teams that come into Lynah, CU is the more conservative team offensively. When CU does gain the zone via a carry-in, then the result is much the same as if it was dump and chase. Battle along the boards, tie up the opposing player, and hope the puck gets squirted out to another CU player for a shot, then retreat to the neutral zone to play defense. Yes, I am exaggerating but the point remains the same about CU’s defensive style effecting student turnout.

I am going to guess, and I am confident here, that many students, who do follow hockey, follow the NHL where the game is more open than the style played by Schafer teams. Yes, its better than it was "5-10 years ago", but the students do not know that.

Jim Hyla

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

One of my observations from watching the game at QU was that we've more or less completely abandoned that "retreat with the puck to behind our own net and regroup" strategy that drove most of us so bonkers the past few seasons. Cornell seemed to attack the neutral zone immediately upon obtaining possession and now doesn't seem to have any big problems in gaining the offensive zone quickly, which opens things up. We've seen more chances on odd-man rushes like the 2 goals scored vs. Clarkson. I'd bet that neutral zone turnovers are way down this season. These are all Good Things (tm).

What I don't like is that most shots on offensive possessions seem to be coming from between the top of the circles and the blueline. They're all trying to score like Ryan and MacDonald. It's my opinion that this team needs to get back in the trenches and work for goals in near the crease. The 5x3 PP at Quinnipiac just stayed up near the blue line bombing away. They were given the space, and didn't work to move the puck closer to the net. You do have Hilbrich setting up in front of the goalie often, creating a screen and looking for deflections or an opportunistic rebound, but there needs to be more bodies down low. They have the size advantage at the Forward position most all of the time, but are only using it in the corners.

Anyway, this is an attendence thread.

Dafatone

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

MattS
I'm an die hard hockey fan for over 35 years and I don't mind watching defensive style hockey but even I get sick of losing while watching dump and chase.

Me too, and I never thought I'd say Cornell hockey was boring me.

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

I don't have carry in vs. dump in stats, but here are SOG, with + being we outshot the opp, - the opposite and = the same.

UNO 30 -
UNO 33 +
PU 41 +
Q 18 -( 1 shot in third per)
Clk 29 +
SLU 23 =

No, it doesn't prove anything, but most games we have decent shot totals. Now if someone wants to gather stats, such as % carry in, from all games, please do.

If anything, from the games I've listened to and/or seen (not many so far this year, to be fair), it sounds like we're occasionally trying too hard to be fancy. Too many passes on the PP trying for one timers, for instance. I'm not one of those people that yells "shoot!" over and over (it turns out my dad is. Augh), but working the puck down low or driving to the net are options.

And while sure, "winning" would draw more fans, it's not like the team's been losing a lot. We've been over .500 every year but one for a long time. How was student attendance in past times when we actually lost a lot?

Since you asked, here is average attendance and season record since Lynah's expansion:

2014-15: 4103 1-4-1
2013-14: 4151 17-10-5
2012-13: 4253 15-16-3
2011-12: 4254 19-9-7
2010-11: 4235 16-15-3
2009-10: 4264 21-9-4
2008-09: 4195 22-10-4
2007-08: 4226 19-14-3
2006-07: 4232 14-13-4

Attendance is taken from USCHO box scores and I assume the numbers are for "paid" and not "turnstile".

RichH

Jim Hyla

I don't know why we keep saying we are just boring dump and chase. Our game style has openned up considerably over the years. We are not a completely free skating team, and I don't think that it'll ever happen, but it's a lot more open than 5-10 years ago.

One of my observations from watching the game at QU was that we've more or less completely abandoned that "retreat with the puck to behind our own net and regroup" strategy that drove most of us so bonkers the past few seasons. Cornell seemed to attack the neutral zone immediately upon obtaining possession and now doesn't seem to have any big problems in gaining the offensive zone quickly, which opens things up. We've seen more chances on odd-man rushes like the 2 goals scored vs. Clarkson. I'd bet that neutral zone turnovers are way down this season. These are all Good Things (tm).

What I don't like is that most shots on offensive possessions seem to be coming from between the top of the circles and the blueline. They're all trying to score like Ryan and MacDonald. It's my opinion that this team needs to get back in the trenches and work for goals in near the crease. The 5x3 PP at Quinnipiac just stayed up near the blue line bombing away. They were given the space, and didn't work to move the puck closer to the net. You do have Hilbrich setting up in front of the goalie often, creating a screen and looking for deflections or an opportunistic rebound, but there needs to be more bodies down low. They have the size advantage at the Forward position most all of the time, but are only using it in the corners.

Anyway, this is an attendence thread.

What I've noticed the past few seasons is that we never score on a deflection, and rarely (if ever) off of a screen. The last guy who I recall scoring on a deflection was Joe Devin, and I don't understand why none of the forwards seem to have that essential skill.

MattS
Attendance is taken from USCHO box scores and I assume the numbers are for "paid" and not "turnstile".

Making this almost useless for purposes of judging crowd enthusiasm.

andyw2100
They still seem to want to speed up clapping during the cowbell, but it's probably because they can't actually hear the cowbell--they just hear people clapping, and start clapping along and then start clapping faster.

That seems to be an issue at every sport in every arena. The usual "Defense! *clap* *clap*" cheer somehow turns into a speed-clapping contest, which of course makes the cheer peter out in 10 seconds when it could last minutes if people kept a constant rhythm.

MattS
Since you asked, here is average attendance and season record since Lynah's expansion:

2014-15: 4103 1-4-1
2013-14: 4151 17-10-5
2012-13: 4253 15-16-3
2011-12: 4254 19-9-7
2010-11: 4235 16-15-3
2009-10: 4264 21-9-4
2008-09: 4195 22-10-4
2007-08: 4226 19-14-3
2006-07: 4232 14-13-4

Attendance is taken from USCHO box scores and I assume the numbers are for "paid" and not "turnstile".

In case this wasn't obvious by inspection, there is essentially no correlation there between winning percentage and paid attendance. If I throw out this year's numbers (small sample and all) there's actually a slight negative trend in the data (winning more results in fewer tickets sold) but with an R2 of 0.024.

This all makessense to me. We're good enough and have a strong enough history of success that the tickets are going to be sold. Now if someone could make a reliable count of people in the building at the start of the first and second periods that would be a useful piece of information and might actually correlate with success.

KeithK

MattS
Since you asked, here is average attendance and season record since Lynah's expansion:

2014-15: 4103 1-4-1
2013-14: 4151 17-10-5
2012-13: 4253 15-16-3
2011-12: 4254 19-9-7
2010-11: 4235 16-15-3
2009-10: 4264 21-9-4
2008-09: 4195 22-10-4
2007-08: 4226 19-14-3
2006-07: 4232 14-13-4

Attendance is taken from USCHO box scores and I assume the numbers are for "paid" and not "turnstile".

In case this wasn't obvious by inspection, there is essentially no correlation there between winning percentage and paid attendance. If I throw out this year's numbers (small sample and all) there's actually a slight negative trend in the data (winning more results in fewer tickets sold) but with an R2 of 0.024.

This all makessense to me. We're good enough and have a strong enough history of success that the tickets are going to be sold. Now if someone could make a reliable count of people in the building at the start of the first and second periods that would be a useful piece of information and might actually correlate with success.

Well, tickets sold being that much greater than attendance lends some credit to the theory that the "real" fans (as in, more dedicated) are somehow not getting their hands on tickets, perhaps because they are so pricey. Not sure I agree with that fan quality distinction, but it's not like tickets aren't being sold. Kids just aren't AS interested in going, once they have tickets in hand.

I wonder which kids those are, demographically.

underskill
I don't think it's losing per se, the program has just felt stuck in neutral the past few years, maybe the fourth or fifth best program in the conference since 2010.

We have been.

RS Pct, 2011-14:

.733 Union
.608 Quinnipiac
.602 Yale
.551 Cornell
.506 RPI

Everybody else is under .500

French Rage

andyw2100
They still seem to want to speed up clapping during the cowbell, but it's probably because they can't actually hear the cowbell--they just hear people clapping, and start clapping along and then start clapping faster.

That seems to be an issue at every sport in every arena. The usual "Defense! *clap* *clap*" cheer somehow turns into a speed-clapping contest, which of course makes the cheer peter out in 10 seconds when it could last minutes if people kept a constant rhythm.

I'm not disagreeing, but historically that hasn't been much of a problem with the Cowbell cheer at Lynah. I expect as the fans in Section D attend more games they will get the hang of things. The "Go, Red, Go" during penalty kills seems, at least for now, to be gone.

andyw2100
I'm not disagreeing, but historically that hasn't been much of a problem with the Cowbell cheer at Lynah.

I take it you have never been in section G. Ever since my first stint there (probably ca. 2005) the cowbell cheer was in pointless speed-up mode after the first 2 or 3 seconds.

Kyle Rose

andyw2100
I'm not disagreeing, but historically that hasn't been much of a problem with the Cowbell cheer at Lynah.

I take it you have never been in section G. Ever since my first stint there (probably ca. 2005) the cowbell cheer was in pointless speed-up mode after the first 2 or 3 seconds.

You are correct.

I didn't realize it actually was a problem. Certainly in the past, (with the exception of this season) the students in D "got it", at least as I recall, and the speeding up wasn't a problem. Hopefully "D" will get it again soon, and perhaps the un-sped-up clapping will work its way around the rink.

underskill
I don't think it's losing per se, the program has just felt stuck in neutral the past few years, maybe the fourth or fifth best program in the conference since 2010.

So what you're saying is, the problem is the relative mediocrity?

Trotsky

In 50 years college hockey may look like this again.

Nahhhhh. We'll never go back to wooden sticks. Or fedoras.

The fans have been getting worse every year for some time now. Last year, A was always half-empty and D SAT DOWN. There was a time in the past 10 years when the student section stretched all the way to G. Losing has a bit to do with it, but the number one cause is ticket prices.

BearLover
The fans have been getting worse every year for some time now. Last year, A was always half-empty and D SAT DOWN. There was a time in the past 10 years when the student section stretched all the way to G. Losing has a bit to do with it, but the number one cause is ticket prices.

I'll take the bait. Prove that ticket prices and not a bevy of other things (technology, culture, style of play, basketball's run, etc.) is the number one cause of student attendance drop off.

I know that ticket prices are a huge reason many townies have given up their season tickets. lack of winning and scoring is why they dont show up to every game even when having tickets. lack of demand also means you can watch any game you want now so why commit to a full season package . lack of CU making more flexable paying options doesnt help either.

upprdeck
I know that ticket prices are a huge reason many townies have given up their season tickets. lack of winning and scoring is why they dont show up to every game even when having tickets. lack of demand also means you can watch any game you want now so why commit to a full season package . lack of CU making more flexable paying options doesnt help either.

I agree about the townies. I sit in M and there are 4 seats behind me that are not sold to season ticket holders. There are two seats on the row ahead of me that haven't had anyone in them all year. I suppose the ones in front could be season ticket holders that don't show up but I doubt it. The ones behind me are not season ticket holders because the people in them have said they walked up and purchased them.

Chris '03

BearLover
The fans have been getting worse every year for some time now. Last year, A was always half-empty and D SAT DOWN. There was a time in the past 10 years when the student section stretched all the way to G. Losing has a bit to do with it, but the number one cause is ticket prices.

I'll take the bait. Prove that ticket prices and not a bevy of other things (technology, culture, style of play, basketball's run, etc.) is the number one cause of student attendance drop off.

Number one preventable cause*

Technology, culture, etc. have all changed for the worse as far as Cornell Hockey is concerned, but I've spoken to tons of students who would have bought season tickets if they didn't cost $250.

Someone posted awhile back that Cornell tickets were more expensive per game than every other program's for which we had data.

I can say with pretty good certainty that if season tickets cost $250 when I was in college (14 years ago), I would not have purchased them.

upprdeck
I know that ticket prices are a huge reason many townies have given up their season tickets. lack of winning and scoring is why they dont show up to every game even when having tickets. lack of demand also means you can watch any game you want now so why commit to a full season package . lack of CU making more flexable paying options doesnt help either.

Lack of demand also makes it harder to sell off tickets when you can't make it to the game, which is another disincentive to buying season tickets. Especially since each unsold ticket costs a lot more these days.

I read this thread, and agree with a lot of what has been said here.

However, there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned, and that was the mystique surrounding the hockey program. That was lost when the Line was eliminated, starting in 2005. Then the crackdown on loud behavior put the nails in the coffin.

The program has had its ups and downs in the past, and that never impacted attendance and attitude from what I hear from people before my time.

I was at the Brown game last night - the old ways have been lost. I saw a Brown player skate without a stick for 30+ seconds, and there was maybe four seconds of the "Stickless" chant. I heard two "LGR" chants for all of ten seconds in total, maybe.

No robot goalie, no other real chants to be heard of whatsoever. I'm in Section C - I will say that Section B, while there are a couple little sparks, pales in comparison to what it was when I started going during my time at grad school from 03-05.

It has been, frankly, pathetic. The crowd at Lynah is now just like the crowd at any other arena - the crowd at Colgate in Hamilton is livelier than it has been at Lynah lately.

buttercup
The program has had its ups and downs in the past, and that never impacted attendance and attitude from what I hear from people before my time.

In 94 and 95 attendance got pretty bad, and participation was weak.

Although people have made good arguments that probably apply around the edges, the bottom line is winning breeds excitement and losing saps it.

buttercup
I read this thread, and agree with a lot of what has been said here.

However, there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned, and that was the mystique surrounding the hockey program. That was lost when the Line was eliminated, starting in 2005. Then the crackdown on loud behavior put the nails in the coffin.

The program has had its ups and downs in the past, and that never impacted attendance and attitude from what I hear from people before my time.

I was at the Brown game last night - the old ways have been lost. I saw a Brown player skate without a stick for 30+ seconds, and there was maybe four seconds of the "Stickless" chant. I heard two "LGR" chants for all of ten seconds in total, maybe.

No robot goalie, no other real chants to be heard of whatsoever. I'm in Section C - I will say that Section B, while there are a couple little sparks, pales in comparison to what it was when I started going during my time at grad school from 03-05.

It has been, frankly, pathetic. The crowd at Lynah is now just like the crowd at any other arena - the crowd at Colgate in Hamilton is livelier than it has been at Lynah lately.

The crowd still seemed pretty good in 06 and 07, at least until ushers started going after any fan that stood out from the crowd in 07. I don't think eliminating the line was as significant as ticket prices.

Trotsky

buttercup
The program has had its ups and downs in the past, and that never impacted attendance and attitude from what I hear from people before my time.

In 94 and 95 attendance got pretty bad, and participation was weak.

Although people have made good arguments that probably apply around the edges, the bottom line is winning breeds excitement and losing saps it.

Close to 100% of freshmen have absolutely no idea how good Cornell Hockey was the previous year. They buy hockey tickets because it's a fun social outlet and it's supposed to be The Thing To Do (and I don't mean that it's on the 161-things-to-do list). The dying mystique comment above is spot-on, and greater fundamental changes have to take place in the long-run so the mystique is not lost altogether. In the short-run, though, decreasing student ticket prices would help fill up Lynah.

As an extension of what I said above, I don't buy the technology/social life argument. Look at college football games that are selling out 100,000-person stadiums--why aren't the kids all home texting? The answer is that gameday at Florida State is The Thing To Do--it's part of the FSU experience. Cornell Hockey used to be a quintessential part of the Cornell experience, but it isn't anymore. The only thing kids love more than sending videos and texting is sending videos and texting about the awesome event they are attending. Cornell Hockey is completely compatible with cell phones, but only if going to the games becomes synonymous with the Cornell Experience once again.

Check out the FSU game yesterday. Tons of empty seats.

underskill
Check out the FSU game yesterday. Tons of empty seats.

ATTENDANCE: 82,300

Here's what I have so far. I've asked Sue Detzer if there are numbers for 2012-13 and before 2003-04.

	CU 	CU	Opp 	Opp	Overall	 Conf
	Total	Ave	Total	Ave		
2013-14	61318	4088	40870	3144	17-10-5	 11-7-4
2012-13					15-16-3	 8-11-3
2011-12	63571	4238	43070	3313	19-9-7	 12-4-6
2010-11	75365	4187	29190	2654	16-15-3	 11-9-2
2009-10	68227	4264	36592	3049	21-9-4	 14-5-3
2008-09	66448	4153	51261	4272	22-10-4	 12-5-3
2007-08	71252	4191	35563	2736	19-14-3	 12-9-1
2006-07	76125	4229	31806	2891	14-13-4	 10-8-4
2005-06	65212	3836	30036	2731	22-9-4	 12-3-2
2004-05	61376	3836	52321	3737	27-5-3	 18-2-2
2003-04	72884	3836	32230	2930	16-10-6	 13-6-3

I don't see any trends, except for the increase since it was expanded in 2006. Maybe we shouldn't have expanded and kept it sold out?

Jim Hyla
Here's what I have so far. I've asked Sue Detzer if there are numbers for 2012-13 and before 2003-04.

	CU 	CU	Opp 	Opp	Overall	 Conf
	Total	Ave	Total	Ave		
2013-14	61318	4088	40870	3144	17-10-5	 11-7-4
2012-13					15-16-3	 8-11-3
2011-12	63571	4238	43070	3313	19-9-7	 12-4-6
2010-11	75365	4187	29190	2654	16-15-3	 11-9-2
2009-10	68227	4264	36592	3049	21-9-4	 14-5-3
2008-09	66448	4153	51261	4272	22-10-4	 12-5-3
2007-08	71252	4191	35563	2736	19-14-3	 12-9-1
2006-07	76125	4229	31806	2891	14-13-4	 10-8-4
2005-06	65212	3836	30036	2731	22-9-4	 12-3-2
2004-05	61376	3836	52321	3737	27-5-3	 18-2-2
2003-04	72884	3836	32230	2930	16-10-6	 13-6-3

I don't see any trends, except for the increase since it was expanded in 2006. Maybe we shouldn't have expanded and kept it sold out?

Maybe the total tickets sales have changed minimally, but the student sections are much sparser and quieter now than in recent memory (and I think almost everyone here would agree).

BearLover

Jim Hyla
Here's what I have so far. I've asked Sue Detzer if there are numbers for 2012-13 and before 2003-04.

	CU 	CU	Opp 	Opp	Overall	 Conf
	Total	Ave	Total	Ave		
2013-14	61318	4088	40870	3144	17-10-5	 11-7-4
2012-13					15-16-3	 8-11-3
2011-12	63571	4238	43070	3313	19-9-7	 12-4-6
2010-11	75365	4187	29190	2654	16-15-3	 11-9-2
2009-10	68227	4264	36592	3049	21-9-4	 14-5-3
2008-09	66448	4153	51261	4272	22-10-4	 12-5-3
2007-08	71252	4191	35563	2736	19-14-3	 12-9-1
2006-07	76125	4229	31806	2891	14-13-4	 10-8-4
2005-06	65212	3836	30036	2731	22-9-4	 12-3-2
2004-05	61376	3836	52321	3737	27-5-3	 18-2-2
2003-04	72884	3836	32230	2930	16-10-6	 13-6-3

I don't see any trends, except for the increase since it was expanded in 2006. Maybe we shouldn't have expanded and kept it sold out?

Maybe the total tickets sales have changed minimally, but the student sections are much sparser and quieter now than in recent memory (and I think almost everyone here would agree).

I think it's dangerous to say something along the lines of "the 'wrong' kids are buying tickets nowadays", but... the wrong kids are buying tickets nowadays.

buttercup
No robot goalie

So, on balance, the crowd has improved...

Trotsky

buttercup
No robot goalie

So, on balance, the crowd has improved...

Not So Fast

I don't object to it in principle. I object to it absorbing and dominating all other cheering. There is nothing dumber than the crowd chanting bend over, bend over while our goalie is under siege on the other side of the ice.

Trotsky
I don't object to it in principle. I object to it absorbing and dominating all other cheering. There is nothing dumber than the crowd chanting bend over, bend over while our goalie is under siege on the other side of the ice.

That part is dumb. There's also been a now longstanding dispute about whether the cheer is telling the goalie what to do ("bend over...bend over..bend over.." or calling out his actions as he takes them ("skate, skate, skate, tuuuuuuuurn, stop, tap". I've always found the latter to be far more effective and entertaining, particularly when the goalie tries to trip the students up because at that point we've won. The repeated bend over is in the same class as "diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie" as far as I'm concerned.

At least we haven't had to use this reason for canceling a game.

19 pc Rankings roundup: How ranked teams fared, Nov. 17 23
Providence Friday: at New Hampshire, ppd, ice

Read more: [www.uscho.com]

Our problem was no good ice.

Perspective from a fan who lives half an hour away whose dad dragged me to Lynah to buy SRO tickets to see Dryden play, had season tickets while at school in the 80s, now get there when I can.

1. The style of play is stupifying. It's like watching a dump-n-chase replay over and over and over.
2. The crackdown on student behavior / language / chants has sucked the energy out of the place. Exact same thing happened at the Domes in Elmira: PC killed the atmosphere.
3. $40 for a night out on uncomfortable benches with limited view vs. $25 for a comfortable seat in a theater. The older I get, the less appealing is the game.

1. Last weekend it was anything but. That was exciting, aggressive hockey.
2. I just can't say, though I recall us complaining about the same thing in the mid-80s. This may be a perennial complaint.
3. The students are the ones to reach, but I agree that cheaper, GA tickets are the way to go.

Chris '03

Trotsky
I don't object to it in principle. I object to it absorbing and dominating all other cheering. There is nothing dumber than the crowd chanting bend over, bend over while our goalie is under siege on the other side of the ice.

That part is dumb. There's also been a now longstanding dispute about whether the cheer is telling the goalie what to do ("bend over...bend over..bend over.." or calling out his actions as he takes them ("skate, skate, skate, tuuuuuuuurn, stop, tap". I've always found the latter to be far more effective and entertaining, particularly when the goalie tries to trip the students up because at that point we've won. The repeated bend over is in the same class as "diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiie" as far as I'm concerned.

Well, isn't the whole point of it being called "remote control goalie" that the students are "controlling" what the goalie does. It's of course easier to predict and mimic, and thus appear to control, what the goalie is doing during the "skate", "turn", and "stop" phase, and then the "bend over" becomes wishful thinking of what we all know will be the end of the whole sequence. I forget when it was starting, I left in 2004 and feel it was just starting up then. It can be funny if it does extend for a long time, so I like it, though as mentioned people should pay attention to what if anything is happening on the other end of the ice; and it seems more people like the participate in the "bend over" part then the other parts. That said, it has gotten into the other goalie's head a few times.

Regarding the whole Lynah mystique, there is something to be said for how that influences freshmen. When I came in in 2000, I had been to maybe one hockey game in my life and knew little about it. But I did know hockey was the big sport, and the Harvard game was THE place to be, so that definitely made me want to see what it was about. My first game was just one of the exhibition games, but the way the student section was made me think it was a huge game, and it's hard not to like that kind of atmosphere. Now maybe the team's success during my four years helped, but as long as the atmosphere was great I like to think I would keep coming back. And maybe the lower ticket prices helped make the decision a no-brainer, but I think even if they cost a but more I still would have found it worth it. Of course, if we went 0-30 and tickets were $50 per game I would say no, so there is likely some extreme, but in the end I think it really comes down to whether Cornell hockey is seen as a defning experience of your years on the hill or just a way to kill 3 hours.

French Rage
Regarding the whole Lynah mystique, there is something to be said for how that influences freshmen. When I came in in 2000, I had been to maybe one hockey game in my life and knew little about it. But I did know hockey was the big sport, and the Harvard game was THE place to be, so that definitely made me want to see what it was about. My first game was just one of the exhibition games, but the way the student section was made me think it was a huge game, and it's hard not to like that kind of atmosphere. Now maybe the team's success during my four years helped, but as long as the atmosphere was great I like to think I would keep coming back. And maybe the lower ticket prices helped make the decision a no-brainer, but I think even if they cost a but more I still would have found it worth it. Of course, if we went 0-30 and tickets were $50 per game I would say no, so there is likely some extreme, but in the end I think it really comes down to whether Cornell hockey is seen as a defning experience of your years on the hill or just a way to kill 3 hours.

Same here, except I didn't even make it to a game until Sophomore year. Went with a friend, and we both looked at each other and kinda went "we've been missing THIS?" Got tickets the next two years.

Dafatone

French Rage
Regarding the whole Lynah mystique, there is something to be said for how that influences freshmen. When I came in in 2000, I had been to maybe one hockey game in my life and knew little about it. But I did know hockey was the big sport, and the Harvard game was THE place to be, so that definitely made me want to see what it was about. My first game was just one of the exhibition games, but the way the student section was made me think it was a huge game, and it's hard not to like that kind of atmosphere. Now maybe the team's success during my four years helped, but as long as the atmosphere was great I like to think I would keep coming back. And maybe the lower ticket prices helped make the decision a no-brainer, but I think even if they cost a but more I still would have found it worth it. Of course, if we went 0-30 and tickets were $50 per game I would say no, so there is likely some extreme, but in the end I think it really comes down to whether Cornell hockey is seen as a defning experience of your years on the hill or just a way to kill 3 hours.

Same here, except I didn't even make it to a game until Sophomore year. Went with a friend, and we both looked at each other and kinda went "we've been missing THIS?" Got tickets the next two years.

Didn't go until senior year. And we were terrible. But I still got hooked because of the experience and ended up getting season tickets for five years of grad school (and am still here 20+ years later). I have to say though that early on it was less the hockey (wasn't a fan of the sport at the time) and more the Lynah experience that got me. Organized obnoxiousness in support of your team is a lot of fun. I wonder whether it would have the same effect now if I arrived at my first game now.

Dafatone
Same here, except I didn't even make it to a game until Sophomore year. Went with a friend, and we both looked at each other and kinda went "we've been missing THIS?" Got tickets the next two years.

That's the same thing that happened to me. Cornell hockey won me over in one game my sophomore year after a friend said, "I can't go tonight: here's my ticket." The atmosphere that made me a fan is gone, sadly, for whatever reason.

A bunch of guys in my freshman dorm were headed up to wait overnight and it sounded fun. Until then I didn't even know we had a hockey team.

Just to do a young old man whine, I actually find just about all the coordinated chants (remote control goalie, you're not a ___, you're a ___, etc) to be kind of lame. Not TOO lame, and the more basic ones (___ university... sucks!, it's all your fault, most variations of a sieve chant) are fun. But I've always been more partial to single witty comments from the crowd, and those are what ushers were most opposed to in 2007.

I started as a freshman. I had heard it was the thing to do, but didn't really know anyone with which to do the line. One guy in my dorm was up to try to find tickets and we found someone willing to sell us some for a premium (hey Oat). The guy from the dorm went to maybe 5 games, I went alone to the rest. But standing at the top of B for the 2004-05 season (undefeated at home) was really special and made me a lifer. By junior/senior year my friends and I in section A were running the place (2006-08).

Dafatone
Just to do a young old man whine, I actually find just about all the coordinated chants (remote control goalie, you're not a ___, you're a ___, etc) to be kind of lame. Not TOO lame, and the more basic ones (___ university... sucks!, it's all your fault, most variations of a sieve chant) are fun. But I've always been more partial to single witty comments from the crowd, and those are what ushers were most opposed to in 2007.

This.

KeithK

Dafatone
Just to do a young old man whine, I actually find just about all the coordinated chants (remote control goalie, you're not a ___, you're a ___, etc) to be kind of lame. Not TOO lame, and the more basic ones (___ university... sucks!, it's all your fault, most variations of a sieve chant) are fun. But I've always been more partial to single witty comments from the crowd, and those are what ushers were most opposed to in 2007.

This.

Some of the phone call cheers I've heard at away arenas over the past few years put anything I've heard at Lynah over the past decade to shame.

Kyle Rose
Some of the phone call cheers I've heard at away arenas over the past few years put anything I've heard at Lynah over the past decade to shame.

There is wit even among barbarians.

I haven't spent enough time at Lynah in the last decade to know whether those clever, spontaneous jibes still happen, but those were also what made the building great to me. The cheers were fun and made the crowd a unit, but the running commentary from a hundred different people, staggered across all the sections, during play so you could hear them clearly, made Lynah different.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
Some of the phone call cheers I've heard at away arenas over the past few years put anything I've heard at Lynah over the past decade to shame.

There is wit even among barbarians.

I haven't spent enough time at Lynah in the last decade to know whether those clever, spontaneous jibes still happen, but those were also what made the building great to me. The cheers were fun and made the crowd a unit, but the running commentary from a hundred different people, staggered across all the sections, during play so you could hear them clearly, made Lynah different.

I can remember at least one such comment that was so outrageously obnoxious yet clever (and clean) that they left several sections and half the guys on the ice (including the target) laughing heartily (it was during a stoppage).

KeithK

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
Some of the phone call cheers I've heard at away arenas over the past few years put anything I've heard at Lynah over the past decade to shame.

There is wit even among barbarians.

I haven't spent enough time at Lynah in the last decade to know whether those clever, spontaneous jibes still happen, but those were also what made the building great to me. The cheers were fun and made the crowd a unit, but the running commentary from a hundred different people, staggered across all the sections, during play so you could hear them clearly, made Lynah different.

I can remember at least one such comment that was so outrageously obnoxious yet clever (and clean) that they left several sections and half the guys on the ice (including the target) laughing heartily (it was during a stoppage).

And since I could use a laugh I'll bite, what was the quip?

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
Some of the phone call cheers I've heard at away arenas over the past few years put anything I've heard at Lynah over the past decade to shame.

There is wit even among barbarians.

I haven't spent enough time at Lynah in the last decade to know whether those clever, spontaneous jibes still happen, but those were also what made the building great to me. The cheers were fun and made the crowd a unit, but the running commentary from a hundred different people, staggered across all the sections, during play so you could hear them clearly, made Lynah different.

My first couple years going to games at Lynah ('05-'06, '06-'07), section A was full of the most inspired heckling I'd ever heard. That first season was Lynah's last one before taller glass panels went in, and the ability of fans to interact with the game directly, having players hear taunts and react to fans, was still in full effect. We were arguably a more hardcore bunch of fans than sat in section B those years (big shout to BMac), although both sections had its share of folks who'd be there for warmups. The infamous crackdowns on language were a major reason why students' sections lost some spirit in my time--I mean, almost noone wanted to risk a $200 season ticket for just saying "[sieve] sucks!" The level of overreach and zealotry in this enforcement initiative, coupled with an athletics department deaf to student hockey fans, left a lot of bitterness in its wake. It's unfortunate but true that the Lynah Faithful didn't get its voice heard by Athletics until ticket sales started dropping and proved its loyalty couldn't be taken for granted.

I have never understood the crackdown on A and B. I used to sit with the oldsters in the back of C, with the occasional high dollar, clueless VIP whose virginal ears the AD was presumably protecting, and we can't understand anything you say in A or B. You could be reciting The Aristocrats and we'd be none the wiser, so where's the harm?

Though to put on my grumpy old hat for a moment, I have also never understood why kids who scored high enough to be admitted to Cornell are apparently unable to heckle without using the 7 (or 77, now, from what I hear) words you're not allowed to say in front of Lynah children. Any line that uses the word "sucks" is by definition not clever. While I don't think the censorship of the crowd is warranted or effective, a non-trivial portion of me is also thinking: reach a little higher, snowflakes.

Trotsky
I have never understood the crackdown on A and B. I used to sit with the oldsters in the back of C, with the occasional high dollar, clueless VIP whose virginal ears the AD was presumably protecting, and we can't understand anything you say in A or B. You could be reciting The Aristocrats and we'd be none the wiser, so where's the harm?

Though to put on my grumpy old hat for a moment, I have also never understood why kids who scored high enough to be admitted to Cornell are apparently unable to heckle without using the 7 (or 77, now, from what I hear) words you're not allowed to say in front of Lynah children. Any line that uses the word "sucks" is by definition not clever. While I don't think the censorship of the crowd is warranted or effective, a non-trivial portion of me is also thinking: reach a little higher, snowflakes.

I think part of the issue was the that 1,000 words you can't say in Lynah morphed into "anyone who is loud is subject to extra scrutiny." Being loud and creative without vulgarity was as much a cause for abuse as "the ref fucks sheep."

Chris '03
I think part of the issue was the that 1,000 words you can't say in Lynah morphed into "anyone who is loud is subject to extra scrutiny." Being loud and creative without vulgarity was as much a cause for abuse as "the ref fucks sheep."

And on that note, I hope sections A and B will not less us down when Quinnipiac and their freshman Bo Pieper come to town in February. They've got to be able to have some fun with that!

Dafatone

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
How disappointing was it to see section A last Saturday night ? Not sure what else might have been going on but I counted 29 bodies plus the band in section A 10 minutes into the 1st period. It did get a little better during the second period, but not even close to 1/2 full. There are other pockets of empty seats for every home game in section F and G.

It won't be long and the much ballyhooed belief that Lynah is an intimidating place to play will be just a distant memory.

Winning a few games would help.

Sure, but things were fading even 4-5 years ago, when we were playing pretty good hockey. I still think a lot of it is the behavior crackdown. I mean, there's about a dozen other factors, too. Cracking down on swearing is one thing. Harassing students over being loud/obnoxious is another.

So, you're saying the students won't go to games unless they can be obscene, loud or obnoxious?? Well, wah, wah, wah, cry me a river.

Actually I think there are other factors at play here.
Back in the day there was no ILDN. If you wanted to see a game you hadta buy a ticket. And, there weren't 500 program options on TV, or X-Box, or Netflix, ad nauseum.

No, though it may be exciting and entertaining to us die-hards, I think the millenials may be looking at other ways to get their adrenalin fix.
Why trudge to Lynah in the cold & snow when you can view the action in the comfort of your living room, and crack a few brewskies in the process??

Johnny 5
So, you're saying the students won't go to games unless they can be obscene, loud or obnoxious?? Well, wah, wah, wah, cry me a river.

If you don't give the students the opportunity to have fun the way they want, don't complain when they don't show up. Simple as that. I'll add you to my list of "STFU about students not showing up" and call you out on it next time. Agreed?

I love how we're going around in circles. There are lots of factors adding up to lower attendance and lower enthusiasm. Cornell can't do anything about the weather, Netflix, X-Box, or ad nauseam; but they can do something about the oppressive environment at the hockey rink. When I was a student, most of the fun was about the crazy, obnoxious, loud crowd screaming often funny and (yes) often obscene things. If it were not for that, I would likely have consumed hockey some other way or, more likely, simply found something else to do. Kill the fun, and people who aren't already interested in watching Cornell play hockey in silence aren't going to show up.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Kyle Rose

Johnny 5
So, you're saying the students won't go to games unless they can be obscene, loud or obnoxious?? Well, wah, wah, wah, cry me a river.

If you don't give the students the opportunity to have fun the way they want, don't complain when they don't show up. Simple as that. I'll add you to my list of "STFU about students not showing up" and call you out on it next time. Agreed?

I love how we're going around in circles. There are lots of factors adding up to lower attendance and lower enthusiasm. Cornell can't do anything about the weather, Netflix, X-Box, or ad nauseam; but they can do something about the oppressive environment at the hockey rink. When I was a student, most of the fun was about the crazy, obnoxious, loud crowd screaming often funny and (yes) often obscene things. If it were not for that, I would likely have consumed hockey some other way or, more likely, simply found something else to do. Kill the fun, and people who aren't already interested in watching Cornell play hockey in silence aren't going to show up.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Not difficult to understand at all. Sorry if I confused you.
That wasn't my point. I'm not the one crying about students not showing up. Show up, don't show up...I don't give a rat.
Especially if in order for them to show up they have to be allowed to act like a-holes.
Nobody said that they had to attend in silence. Oppressive? What?? Where did that come from?!
All anybody is saying is, if this is going to be a family affair they shouldn't be screaming lewd, sexually explicit cheers.
And, yes, over the years the chants had gotten raunchier and raunchier.
Or, maybe we should have an age requirement? Say nobody under 16?? 18??
Joke. Didn't want you to misconstrue this, too.

Guess I may have to add you to my list of people who "JDFGI". Sorry if I'm being oppressive.

Johnny 5
Not difficult to understand at all. Sorry if I confused you.
That wasn't my point. I'm not the one crying about students not showing up. Show up, don't show up...I don't give a rat.
Especially if in order for them to show up they have to be allowed to act like a-holes.

Ok, then we're agreed.

IMO, it makes sense for people to complain about the crowd shouting raunchy things, or about students not showing up, but not both. Complaining about both is like pointlessly bitching about the unfairness of the facts of life: e.g., complaining that hot young coeds are pretty but won't pay any attention to your flabby 50 year old ass. You get students into the rink by giving them the opportunity to have a kind of fun they can't experience elsewhere. If you dictate the bounds of "fun" too much, you risk not overlapping with their definition of fun, which leads to lower attendance and lower enthusiasm.

When there were fewer entertainment options on the Hill and while Cornell was dominant in the ECAC, the administration could get away with this while still getting students to go to games (though attendance has been suffering since at least the first season I had tickets in G, which was probably 04-05 or 05-06); but now they can't.

Clearly I'm on the laissez faire side of rink behavior, mostly because I don't understand why old people get their knickers in a twist over hearing people use naughty words in unison; but regardless, my opinion is beside the point. The students have spoken. Everyone please stop complaining that students aren't showing up when you are not offering something they want to do.

Chris '03

Trotsky
I have never understood the crackdown on A and B. I used to sit with the oldsters in the back of C, with the occasional high dollar, clueless VIP whose virginal ears the AD was presumably protecting, and we can't understand anything you say in A or B. You could be reciting The Aristocrats and we'd be none the wiser, so where's the harm?

Though to put on my grumpy old hat for a moment, I have also never understood why kids who scored high enough to be admitted to Cornell are apparently unable to heckle without using the 7 (or 77, now, from what I hear) words you're not allowed to say in front of Lynah children. Any line that uses the word "sucks" is by definition not clever. While I don't think the censorship of the crowd is warranted or effective, a non-trivial portion of me is also thinking: reach a little higher, snowflakes.

I think part of the issue was the that 1,000 words you can't say in Lynah morphed into "anyone who is loud is subject to extra scrutiny." Being loud and creative without vulgarity was as much a cause for abuse as "the ref fucks sheep."

I thought it might be something like that. FWIW, which isn't much since I only get to Lynah about a dozen times a decade these days, if I saw an usher giving a student the SS treatment simply for being the tallest blade of grass, I'd interpose my considerable bulk and try to talk him down.

I think the family atmosphere issue is over blown. there are kids, but when you factor in that 95% of the cheers you cant understand and the fact that most of the kids are even further away Im not sure any amount of swearing is really making any difference to families staying away. its clear less people are coming, i know as a townie its not nearly as fun if the kids are not creating an atmosphere.

I dont recall hearing anything at a game that i dont hear walking down the halls at any middle school in the country. how people talk at a hockey game to an opponent is not how i want my kids talking to people in a real world environment but I also dont think how kids talk to each other really represents the type of person they are.

you go to pg-13 movie and you can hear almost anything you would ever hear at a cornell hockey game. parents take young kids there, you know you might hear or see something. if you are worried about it dont bring kids, most of the cheering is pretty harmless, the players and opp's actually like it from the ones i have talked to.

you want to add to place, dont let people in to the building except for between periods, get more people to show up on time, figure out how to get people moving around the building so a 15 min intermission isnt lost just getting to the bathroom or getting some food. fix the speakers, add a digital projector and show some highlights, and survey the kids to find out why they are not coming and always showing up late.

fix the ticket price issue, add incentives to buying season tickets. why is bulk food cheaper but not tickets? upgrade people to center ice/box seats like other venues do. market the program..

get an athletic office who knows what they are doing.

Ya know, now that I think about it.....
As a big fan of the late, lamented George Carlin I have to ask myself, self, is there really anything fundamentally wrong if the 10 year old kid next to me is chanting,
"The Ref Fucks Sheep!!" at the top of his lungs?
I mean isn't the problem really just the anachronistic Puritanism of the listener?
Dunno. Just askin'.

Johnny 5
Ya know, now that I think about it.....
As a big fan of the late, lamented George Carlin I have to ask myself, self, is there really anything fundamentally wrong if the 10 year old kid next to me is chanting,
"The Ref Fucks Sheep!!" at the top of his lungs?
I mean isn't the problem really just the anachronistic Puritanism of the listener?
Dunno. Just askin'.

I didn't know Cornell had a bunch of ten year old students now.

Speaking of anachronistic Purintanism, in what decade will we all finally accept that, for better or worse, "sucks" is such an enormously mainstream word that attempts to ban its use at a hockey game are idiotic?

To me the following rules should generally apply:
- no one is singled out just for being loud (or tall or tall and loud)
- If it's heard on basic cable between 6am and 10pm, it's not objectionable at a college hockey game
- no threats against players, officials, fans, bands, etc. (like the year A & B started chanting "parking lot" at the colgate band).

That said, vulgarity is a crutch and you can be creative without it. But right now there seems to be no creativity either.

Johnny 5
So, you're saying the students won't go to games unless they can be obscene, loud or obnoxious?? Well, wah, wah, wah, cry me a river.

Opinions over content can differ. But you're saying that it's OK for students to get hassled over being loud at a hockey game, and I disagree with that. That's what Chris '03 and Dafatone have said. Students have been getting targeted by this Athletics Department for being loud and supportive just as those being abusive.



My biggest observations (not really criticisms, but these may help figuring out why enthusiasm has waned):

1) Students aren't showing up on time. We've gone from B & D being packed at 6:30 for warmups...to the sections filling up just in time for the puck drop...to people wandering in near the end of the 1st period. Once you have 2 years of that, "that's how it's always been" in the minds of half the student body.

2) Students aren't traveling to road games. Obviously internet games take care of that, but one of the best fan-bonding experiences are those wonderfully illogical caravans to godfersaken places like Canton or Troy and seeing the ushers scratch their heads at the presence and energy the younger fans bring. With numbers, we could take over any rink. That era is over. As an alumnus who lives within 2 hours of seven league foes, I'm now used to the visitor sections being populated by just a smattering of local alumni. (Band excluded).

3) Students aren't participating here. I'm calling it out: how many people posting on this forum are undergrads? We've had the same group of 15 or so regular posters for the past decade. Talking to online friends helped deepen my week-to-week fervor.

Count me in for someone who thinks that it's not the end of the world if a kid hears an occasional swear word. I don't mind ditching the chant about the ref and his sheep habits, but that's about it.

I heard much, much worse at the last NHL game I went to (to be fair, it was Pens @Rangers and we were in the nosebleed seats). There were also kids. The world did not end.

Dafatone
Count me in for someone who thinks that it's not the end of the world if a kid hears an occasional swear word. I don't mind ditching the chant about the ref and his sheep habits, but that's about it.

I heard much, much worse at the last NHL game I went to (to be fair, it was Pens @Rangers and we were in the nosebleed seats). There were also kids. The world did not end.

I went to my first NHL game when I was about 9. Rob Shick was the referee. For most of the game a bunch of drunks in the next section chanted "Shick is shit. Shick is shit." I survived.

Johnny 5

Dafatone

Jim Hyla

Cop at Lynah
How disappointing was it to see section A last Saturday night ? Not sure what else might have been going on but I counted 29 bodies plus the band in section A 10 minutes into the 1st period. It did get a little better during the second period, but not even close to 1/2 full. There are other pockets of empty seats for every home game in section F and G.

It won't be long and the much ballyhooed belief that Lynah is an intimidating place to play will be just a distant memory.

Winning a few games would help.

Sure, but things were fading even 4-5 years ago, when we were playing pretty good hockey. I still think a lot of it is the behavior crackdown. I mean, there's about a dozen other factors, too. Cracking down on swearing is one thing. Harassing students over being loud/obnoxious is another.

So, you're saying the students won't go to games unless they can be obscene, loud or obnoxious?? Well, wah, wah, wah, cry me a river.

Actually I think there are other factors at play here.
Back in the day there was no ILDN. If you wanted to see a game you hadta buy a ticket. And, there weren't 500 program options on TV, or X-Box, or Netflix, ad nauseum.

No, though it may be exciting and entertaining to us die-hards, I think the millenials may be looking at other ways to get their adrenalin fix.
Why trudge to Lynah in the cold & snow when you can view the action in the comfort of your living room, and crack a few brewskies in the process??

There may be kids playing XBox and watching Netflix, but I can promise you no students are watching Cornell play on ILDN. I would wager that, for any given home game, there are less than ten Cornell students in their room watching the hockey game on their computer.

imafrshmn

My first couple years going to games at Lynah ('05-'06, '06-'07), section A was full of the most inspired heckling I'd ever heard. That first season was Lynah's last one before taller glass panels went in, and the ability of fans to interact with the game directly, having players hear taunts and react to fans, was still in full effect. We were arguably a more hardcore bunch of fans than sat in section B those years (big shout to BMac), although both sections had its share of folks who'd be there for warmups. The infamous crackdowns on language were a major reason why students' sections lost some spirit in my time--I mean, almost noone wanted to risk a $200 season ticket for just saying "[sieve] sucks!" The level of overreach and zealotry in this enforcement initiative, coupled with an athletics department deaf to student hockey fans, left a lot of bitterness in its wake. It's unfortunate but true that the Lynah Faithful didn't get its voice heard by Athletics until ticket sales started dropping and proved its loyalty couldn't be taken for granted.

I think this pretty closely aligns with my perception of what has changed. It wasn't only the crackdown on language, but I think not allowing the student sections to go after individual players has also put a damper on some of the liveliness of the crowd. Not being able to do the Telephone chant anymore? Not being able to make fun of players last names and stuff whenever they're on the ice? Some of the most creative chants I can remember stem from something about a particular opposing player (I'll never forget your sock Joe Grossman). Going off of RichH's point a few posts above, who would show up at 6:30 for warm-ups when you can't make fun of the opposing team?

Most of my favorite memories at Lynah were associated with taunts of individual players, such as Princeton's Ray "Bozo" Casey or Clarkson's Brian "Beaver" Cleaver. It the admin has truly outlawed that kind of interplay, and I have no proof that they have other than the hearsay on this board, then they've destroyed the Lynah experience for the students as least as I recall it.

The front rows of Section B still harp on individual players and coaches and have over the past few years.

One of my fondest memories is from '85 when we lost a close one to eventual national champion RPI. The crowd seranaded portly RPI coach Mike Addessa with chants of "the coach is fat", and the RPI fans were taunted with "you live in Troy".

Jeff Hopkins '82
Most of my favorite memories at Lynah were associated with taunts of individual players, such as Princeton's Ray "Bozo" Casey or Clarkson's Brian "Beaver" Cleaver. It the admin has truly outlawed that kind of interplay, and I have no proof that they have other than the hearsay on this board, then they've destroyed the Lynah experience for the students as least as I recall it.

My favorite is still when we had Ryan Smart and Dartmouth had some poor guy named Dumas. "Smart! Dumas!" was the order of the day.

O.K., I give......
Living in BhumFaq, Egypt I had no idea how restrictive it had/has become.
The sheep thing notwithstanding, no telephone cheer!? What!!??
I guess I side with the students!!
Booooring!!!!

Telephone cheer is still going on, too. Clearly audible (somewhat) on ILDN for the Clarkson game.

Don't think this has been posted yet: [www.youtube.com]

Would really be a shame if we lost what makes Lynah so great.

BearLover
Don't think this has been posted yet: [www.youtube.com]

Would really be a shame if we lost what makes Lynah so great.

Thanks, now let's see if we can get him to come.

Can't say I've ever seen a price cut on Lynah tickets for a non-break game, but here we are.

Celebrate Cyber Monday with $10 men's hockey tickets vs. Denver! That's 50% off! Choose "Promo" option when selecting [t.co]

— Cornell Big Red (@CornellSports) December 1, 2014