Cornell hockey at MSG every year

Four sellout games in seven years at Madison Square Garden shows Cornell can host an annual hockey game at the Garden. I’d love to see the Cornell-BU Red Hot Hockey series continue in odd years and the Frozen Apple series in even years. Cornell has taken to calling CU-UM the “inaugural event” in the Frozen Apple series. We need a school we don’t normally play with a big NYC fan base: Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Wisconsin, BC. (The 2010 Colgate-Cornell game was a misfire. Maybe if it had been Cornell-BC as rumored, the Prudential would have sold out, too.)

A year ago I thought it was too much to do annual hockey games at MSG, especially in even years when just 2 weeks before Cornell held a weekend of parties and sports events around Cornell-Columbia football. It felt as if there were fewer Cornell-organized pre-game activities this year compared to the 2007-2009-2011 Red Hot Hockey games vs. BU but still there were enough, and it's not as if Cornellians can't find their way into bars unaided.

How would you rank the opponents Cornell should play in the Garden?

Here are my top five non-BU opponents (a.k.a Frozen Apple opponents) and reasoning.
1) Michigan - Great hockey fan base that will travel and has a large alumni presence in NYC. I was impressed by their showing despite "The Big Game" being played the same day. Their stealing of our traditions are annoying, but in a closer game that could make for an electric atmosphere in the arena. Its a big name draw for the casual fan.
2) Wisconsin - Great hockey program year in and year out, the Kohl Center is one of the more intimidating places to play hockey in the college game. We have a history of great games with them (unfortunately usually going the wrong way) that any Lynah Faithful should appreciate. Their alumni base in NYC is probably pretty decent, and it is the kind of name that would draw both the casual and hardcore Cornell fan.
3) BC - You have to beat the best to be the best, and they're consistently among the best. While they have plenty of alumni in the NYC area, I would be a little worried about attendance as they regularly have trouble completely filling Conte Forum. That said a high profile game on Thanksgiving weekend in NYC can draw a ton of casual fans, as we have already seen over the past four times we have been there.
4) PSU - Large NYC alumni base, with the majority of the alumni base in an adjacent state. They are going to great lengths to sell their brand statewide in PA (playing some games in Wilkes-Barre, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia this year). They are already selling out their home rink on a regular basis and I can't wait to see how they do filling Pegula Ice Rink next season. Don't underestimate the proximity factor, as the trip to NYC would be nothing for these fans. People regularly commute for the eastern half of the state (particularly Northeast PA) to NYC. If hockey catches on like it seems it will there, and they become the caliber of program of a Michigan or Wisconsin, they might even be the best option for a game in MSG. The only major problem I forsee with this is they may want to start their own Thanksgiving tradition in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh in alternating years.
5) MSU - Better Hockey fan base than the remaining major options. Ohio State and Notre Dame just don't really care about their hockey enough to guarantee a great gate.
All this said, the biggest factor is the continued Cornell attendance. Our fans filled two thirds of those stands last night at least. Picking a good opponent is important, but the most critical factor in this being successful is definitely continued enthusiasm from the fans of the Cornell Big Red.

Notre Dame pulled very well the year the Irish were in the Florida Hockey Classic; I think Ohio State did, too. If tavernkeepers had a vote, they'd want one of them against Cornell. But that's not NYC. Good point about Penn State once Penn State is good enough to be a quality opponent that would help our power ranking with a Cornell win. Too bad there isn't a serious NYS hockey team with a big fan base that we don't already play in ECAC. Say Syracuse if Syracuse had a hockey team like it has a basketball team. Promote NYS hockey and all.

I would like to see a rotation of even year opponents, to cement Cornell as the MSG "home" team. Michigan and Penn State would bring large alumni contingents out. UConn is probably well-represented, if they become an important program after moving to Hockey East.

Restoring the old tradition of neutral site games with Army would IMHO also be good program karma, and might get some media attention.

I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

I hope BU-Cornell in odd years continues as RHH editions of the Frozen Apple. I think using The Garden as a "Lynah Southeast" to get out-of-conference opponents that will not abide by Schaferian game reciprocity like Cornell did with Michigan should be considered when deciding opponents in even years. Applying this idea I'm left with two non-traveling or generally non-traveling opponents that I would like to see at the Frozen Apple: Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I would love to see the Big Red face off against the Gophers. And, the choice of Wisconsin (after getting my wish for a game against Michigan), is the next logical choice. Boston College fits this regime, but I am not obsessed with playing a very successful team that has relatively mediocre fan support in a venue as large as The Garden.

Two programs that do not or have not established a non-traveling principle that I'd like to see at future editions of the Frozen Apple are Notre Dame and Penn State. Notre Dame and Penn State have a considerable prominence of fans who are otherwise unaffiliated with either university in the New York market and that combined with the popularity of hockey in New York could draw in many passerby fans. Notre Dame, like Michigan and Penn State, have large alumni bases in New York City that will help the draw of the game. Notre Dame is nearly always competitive at the highest level of the sport having two Frozen Four appearances in the last five years. I think it'd be a fun game that might not be as lively as a game against a Michigan or Wisconsin, but would sell out just as easily.

The comments from css228 are exactly correct regarding Penn State. The large alumni base of Penn Staters in New York City and the ready access to Manhattan for the largest density of Penn State alumni in Philadelphia lends itself to good attendance numbers. Penn State fans turn out for even intercollegiate dance sport. They would undoubtedly turn out for a clash between their favored school or alma mater, and Cornell,a fellow land-grant university and a collegiate hockey program has a lot of respect from current top officials in Penn State hockey.Regarding Penn State's level of competitiveness, its program sits at 5-4-0 against Division I programs including beating RIT at Blue Cross Arena and splitting with Air Force with a commanding 5-1 game. The Nittany Lions were swept by Union, but Ken Schott said that Union was lucky to have not surrended a win to a very young and very talented first-year-NCAA Penn State team. The first game of that series ended 2-0 with an ENG and Penn State suffered a disallowed goal that would have tied the game. Penn State's later season games against Ohio State or Miami in Pittsburgh, Michigan State, and Wisconsin will be telling as to if Cornell should begin considering them for the 2014 Frozen Apple (assuming that RHH is 2013).

Aaron M. Griffin
I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

Didn't we do this a number of years back?

Jordan 04

Aaron M. Griffin
I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

Didn't we do this a number of years back?

Yes and Schafer almost jumped from State kids. I'm pretty sure he was suspended.

Aaron M. Griffin
Notre Dame Jeff Jackson is nearly always competitive at the highest level of the sport

FYP. Notre Dame, historically, has been a mediocre* program at best.

*Really wanted to use the word 'wretched,' but I'm feeling generous.

Surprised nobody mentioned North Dakota as a potential opponent. Consistently strong program that always travels well despite not having the sheer volume of alumni of a Michigan or Ohio State (maybe because, like BU, theye one of those schools where hockey is indisputably the biggest draw). Maine would fit under the same heading, although the past 5 years have been lean by their standards.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that many North Dakota fans.

North Dakota has about one-quarter as many living alumni as Michigan and they're not centered around New York City. Great opponent, but could they fill even a third of Madison Square Garden? From the East, UNH is a possibility. I didn't mention Maine because Maine is the other co-host of our Florida Holiday Classic hockey tournament and we have the possibility of meeting them in the title game or third-place game each year already.

The other issue is that you'd like to use the NYC venue for a team that seems unwilling to come to Lynah. UND and MSU have both done that. That makes the goofers or Bucky a better choice than those two.

Or Penn State for that matter. We have no history as to whether they'd come to Lynah. Given the proximity of the two schools, you'd have to hope that they could make it happen. It would make for a good rivalry for a home and home weekend.

The last paragraph of Adam Wodon's story on the game says the BU series will resume next year and that there have been discussions about Michigan, Notre Dame and other schools in 2014.

Weder
The last paragraph of Adam Wodon's story on the game says the BU series will resume next year and that there have been discussions about Michigan, Notre Dame and other schools in 2014.

Be on the lookout for an announcement regarding a MIH return to the Worlds Most Famous.... #GoBU

— Mike Lynch (@BU_AD_MLynch) February 27, 2013

Looks like a formal announcement is on the way.

MIH?

Jordan 04
MIH?

Men's Ice Hockey

Jordan 04
MIH?

It looks like "Men In [uh?] ..."

We got our first annoucement that there would be a Red Hot Hockey IV announcement last week.

Although we've been AWOL for what seems like forever, we have news on Red Hot Hockey IV coming your way soon. Stay tuned!

— Red Hot Hockey (@redhothockey) February 22, 2013

Here's the CornellBigRed announcement.

This is probably the most significat part.

Tickets for the fourth edition of Red Hot Hockey are now on sale directly through Ticketmaster.com and the Madison Square Garden
website. Fans will have the opportunity to buy tickets in either of the following categories: Boston University Fan Section, or the
Cornell University Fan Section beginning on March 11, 2013 at 10:00am. Student tickets will be available at a discounted rate at the
box office at Agganis Arena (Boston University) and at the Cornell Athletic Ticket Office in Bartels Hall.

Brilliant.

I won't speak for anyone else, but ever since the ECAC/HE split, I've hoped there would be some way to ensure the BU rivalry would be kept alive. It's great that RHH has been received well enough that both universities want to continue it. I'm sure money has a part to play and that's fine. I just want to go to Cornell-BU games with my kids and grandkids. And at this point, it seems like we can safely say the series will continue indefinitely.

Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Jordan 04
Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Or if you are a die hard fan it's your chance to get tickets before the facetimers.

marty

Jordan 04
Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Or if you are a die hard fan it's your chance to get tickets before the facetimers.

It is; I don't find those to be mutually exclusive.

Jordan 04
Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Why?

Jordan 04

marty

Jordan 04
Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Or if you are a die hard fan it's your chance to get tickets before the facetimers.

It is; I don't find those to be mutually exclusive.

Agree.

Trotsky

Jordan 04
Annoying that they put tickets on sale nearly 9 months before the event.

Why?

The time value of money??
I don't see the problem. Now if I could go and missed this announcement then I would be PO'd.

marty
The time value of money??

If there's deflation, you win.

Trotsky

marty
The time value of money??

If there's deflation, you win.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Fingers crossed that if I agree to work Thanksgiving Day and the Friday after that I can get that weekend off. One of the downsides of starting work at a hospital is being low on the totem pole when it comes to days off around holidays. One of the upsides of working 15 minutes from where I grew up is I can work 7a-3p on Thanksgiving and still be home for dinner.

Trotsky

marty
The time value of money??

If there's deflation, you win.

munchkin
Fingers crossed that if I agree to work Thanksgiving Day and the Friday after that I can get that weekend off. One of the downsides of starting work at a hospital is being low on the totem pole when it comes to days off around holidays. One of the upsides of working 15 minutes from where I grew up is I can work 7a-3p on Thanksgiving and still be home for dinner.

This is why you should never choose a career where if you Ferris Bueller and something bad happens you might feel guilty afterwards.

Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

Kyle Rose
Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

I notice that very few of the designated Cornell sections are listed for sale, and section 118 is already shown as sold out. Nothing but end zone are now offered.

David Harding

Kyle Rose
Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

I notice that very few of the designated Cornell sections are listed for sale, and section 118 is already shown as sold out. Nothing but end zone are now offered.

I specifically want the corner section, so I'm just going to wait. I'm not spending $240 on tickets just in case better ones don't appear later.

There may in fact be some good reason for holding back these tickets, but... that doesn't make me hate these people any less. Why does everything to do with the AD have to involve pulling teeth?

Kyle Rose

David Harding

Kyle Rose
Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

I notice that very few of the designated Cornell sections are listed for sale, and section 118 is already shown as sold out. Nothing but end zone are now offered.

I specifically want the corner section, so I'm just going to wait. I'm not spending $240 on tickets just in case better ones don't appear later.

There may in fact be some good reason for holding back these tickets, but... that doesn't make me hate these people any less. Why does everything to do with the AD have to involve pulling teeth?

We've decided to wait, too.

section 207/208 + 8. Done.

Section 208 was awesome this year- a nice big corner section with its own bathroom on top. Very enjoyable.

David Harding

Kyle Rose

David Harding

Kyle Rose
Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

I notice that very few of the designated Cornell sections are listed for sale, and section 118 is already shown as sold out. Nothing but end zone are now offered.

I specifically want the corner section, so I'm just going to wait. I'm not spending $240 on tickets just in case better ones don't appear later.

There may in fact be some good reason for holding back these tickets, but... that doesn't make me hate these people any less. Why does everything to do with the AD have to involve pulling teeth?

We've decided to wait, too.

They appear to be back now. It's like a circus.

(I did get a response from Gene saying that the Garden pulled them at the last minute due to construction concerns, but evidently these concerns must not have been that important.)

Kyle Rose

David Harding

Kyle Rose
Anyone know what happened to the section 104 tickets? Any mention of them disappeared a few minutes before the ticket sale opened. I have not received a response from the ticket office yet.

I notice that very few of the designated Cornell sections are listed for sale, and section 118 is already shown as sold out. Nothing but end zone are now offered.

I specifically want the corner section, so I'm just going to wait. I'm not spending $240 on tickets just in case better ones don't appear later.

There may in fact be some good reason for holding back these tickets, but... that doesn't make me hate these people any less. Why does everything to do with the AD have to involve pulling teeth?

Not even everything with the ADA always involves pulling teeth.




Gerbil Vision

Something occurred to me - do the retirement of Jack Parker and his replacement by David Quinn (a BU alumnus, yes, but one who played his entire collegiate career after the Divorce) jeopardize the future of the Cornell-BU series, either at MSG or otherwise? The income from the MSG ticket sales is great, sure, but if you consider the possibility that Quinn might not have Parker's appreciation about a rivalry that sort of pre-dates his playing career, and that he's surely going to be expected turn the Terriers back into a winning program (or, at least, a program that's competitive with BC) and will want to schedule the strongest possible opposition in order to do that (insert long discussion about the strength and future direction of the Cornell program here), is it possible that these enjoyable matchups will fall by the wayside? Or am I just being a worrywart?

Josh '99
Something occurred to me - do the retirement of Jack Parker and his replacement by David Quinn (a BU alumnus, yes, but one who played his entire collegiate career after the Divorce) jeopardize the future of the Cornell-BU series, either at MSG or otherwise? The income from the MSG ticket sales is great, sure, but if you consider the possibility that Quinn might not have Parker's appreciation about a rivalry that sort of pre-dates his playing career, and that he's surely going to be expected turn the Terriers back into a winning program (or, at least, a program that's competitive with BC) and will want to schedule the strongest possible opposition in order to do that (insert long discussion about the strength and future direction of the Cornell program here), is it possible that these enjoyable matchups will fall by the wayside? Or am I just being a worrywart?

Certainly the latter for now. If the crowds stay up, I'd suspect the games would continue.

In its own way, BU students and alumni enjoy filling their third of the arena. I think the BU administration and alumni affairs likes the opportunity for a NYC gathering.

Money aside, where else will they play in front of 19,000 people? A great experience and a recruiting tool to use against UMass Lowell.

TimV
Money aside, where else will they play in front of 19,000 people? A great experience and a recruiting tool to use against UMass Lowell.

Does the allure of playing biennially in Madison Square Garden have any value to a player who isn't sold by the prospect of playing in the Beanpot Tournament in front of 17,500 people every February?

cbuckser

TimV
Money aside, where else will they play in front of 19,000 people? A great experience and a recruiting tool to use against UMass Lowell.

Does the allure of playing biennially in Madison Square Garden have any value to a player who isn't sold by the prospect of playing in the Beanpot Tournament in front of 17,500 people every February?

MSG is even more of a national stage. Plus the Beanpot is a given for the four schools. Mike Schafer has to like that players get exposure to several larger-than-college arenas in Estero and New York to condition them for the playoffs.

Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.

The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

Edit: with this game, Yale will play all of 4 OOC games next year: UVM, SHU, Merrimack, Holy Cross. Yikes.

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.

The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

Edit: with this game, Yale will play all of 4 OOC games next year: UVM, SHU, Merrimack, Holy Cross. Yikes.

Anyone want to wager on the attendance?

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

My first reaction: "Hey, that's our turf."

NH Register
It's part of a two-year contract, both schools hopeful they can play there again during the 2014-15 season.

Cornell has played to capacity crowds at Madison Square Garden in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012, with an upcoming game against Boston University there scheduled for Nov. 30.

Yale and Harvard could sell out the building's 18,200 seats. The schools have met before at Madison Square Garden, the last coming on Dec. 21, 1970.

And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.
The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

Edit: with this game, Yale will play all of 4 OOC games next year: UVM, SHU, Merrimack, Holy Cross. Yikes.

So, credit to the people at Cornell (and BU) for nailing down Madison Square Garden before every school tries to snatch away unscheduled nights. That would include Andy Noel who's probably feeling pretty good about it right now.

A lasting image I have of him is at the Sweet Sixteen game at Syracuse, standing out in the rain, water running down his glasses, helping to shorten that incredibly long will-call line for Cornell tickets, looking for player families and others he knew so he could get them their tickets and shorten the line for everyone else.

(Then there is the stain of RedCast.)

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.

The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

Edit: with this game, Yale will play all of 4 OOC games next year: UVM, SHU, Merrimack, Holy Cross. Yikes.

Think that tells anything about what they think of their team?

RichH

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

My first reaction: "Hey, that's our turf."

NH Register
It's part of a two-year contract, both schools hopeful they can play there again during the 2014-15 season.

Cornell has played to capacity crowds at Madison Square Garden in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012, with an upcoming game against Boston University there scheduled for Nov. 30.

Yale and Harvard could sell out the building's 18,200 seats. The schools have met before at Madison Square Garden, the last coming on Dec. 21, 1970.

And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

Sure, if they trick everyone into believing it's a football game.

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.
The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

Edit: with this game, Yale will play all of 4 OOC games next year: UVM, SHU, Merrimack, Holy Cross. Yikes.

When Cornell played Princeton in lax this year the Inside Lacrosse Konica Minolta Bears and Tigers Big City Classic, that was the league match. Crimson and Eli are playing a third Harvard-Yale game that will be non-conference. Story says the contract could be for two years so each team could have given up one home game ... except maybe if the attendance tanks, there won't be a year two. Year one, it will sell well. Year two, it will be a struggle to see if they can keep interest up. Cornell-BU as every-odd-year makes sense and maybe we can keep interest up with a different even-years participant.

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

NH Register
Yale and Harvard will take their ancient rivalry to the bright lights of The Big Apple next season.

The schools have signed a deal to play each other at New York's Madison Square Garden on Jan. 11, the Register has learned.

How original! Are they going to call it Big Crimson & Blue Hockey?

Swampy
How original! Are they going to call it Big Crimson & Blue Hockey?

They probably hold trademark to The Game so they'll repurpose that, no doubt. Before they'll honor all the Harvards and Yales from the 1940s who wrote the bonds that made it possible to ravage the old Pennsylvania Station for the moderne 1962 Garden.

Won't be so many inflated egos in one place since the Donald dined alone.

billhoward

Swampy
How original! Are they going to call it Big Crimson & Blue Hockey?

They probably hold trademark to The Game so they'll repurpose that, no doubt. Before they'll honor all the Harvards and Yales from the 1940s who wrote the bonds that made it possible to ravage the old Pennsylvania Station for the moderne 1962 Garden.

Won't be so many inflated egos in one place since the Donald dined alone.

Yes, and when they spend the night in Trump Tower and then return to their homes designed by Paul Rudolph and his disciples, they'll think how lovely the Garden is and wish they had the chance to check out Penn Station before getting into the limo. Perhaps Jane Jacobs's ghost will haunt MSG on 1/11/14.

RichH
And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

In March I would have said no chance, even with the marketing power of these universities. But after Yale's recent success there may be enough excitement around their hockey program (and rivalry from Cambridge) that they could sell out.

Maybe this is a Cunning Plan to gradually establish MSG as the de facto ECAC home building, in anticipation of moving the ECACs there.

"You got to have a dream. If you don't have a dream, how you gonna make your dream come true?"

KeithK

RichH
And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

In March I would have said no chance, even with the marketing power of these universities. But after Yale's recent success there may be enough excitement around their hockey program (and rivalry from Cambridge) that they could sell out.

There would have to be a lot of Yale fans because as near as I can tell both Sucks fans will not leave Cambridge/Alston.

Towerroad

KeithK

RichH
And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

In March I would have said no chance, even with the marketing power of these universities. But after Yale's recent success there may be enough excitement around their hockey program (and rivalry from Cambridge) that they could sell out.

There would have to be a lot of Yale fans because as near as I can tell both Sucks fans will not leave Cambridge/Alston.

I think the idea is that the attendees dont have to leave anywhere.

Josh '99

RichH

Chris '03
Copy cats:
[www.nhregister.com]

My first reaction: "Hey, that's our turf."

NH Register
It's part of a two-year contract, both schools hopeful they can play there again during the 2014-15 season.

Cornell has played to capacity crowds at Madison Square Garden in 2007, 2009, 2011 and 2012, with an upcoming game against Boston University there scheduled for Nov. 30.

Yale and Harvard could sell out the building's 18,200 seats. The schools have met before at Madison Square Garden, the last coming on Dec. 21, 1970.

And monkeys could fly out of my butt. (Actually, with the marketing power of those universities, it is possible)

Sure, if they trick everyone into believing it's a football game.

I think it sells out because the local alumni don't have to travel back to school to see the game. Plus, on the heels of the NCAA title I'll bet Yale's bandwagon is sagging under the weight of "long time fans".

Yale has a drama department and I say hockey attendance among Yalies will be short-attention-span theater.

Noticed today in the NHL schedule releases that the Rangers and Canucks will play a 2 p.m. matinee at MSG on the day of Red Hot Hockey. Just thought you might want to know.

The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.

Good.

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.

Good.

The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

I would put real money on a skyscraper replacing MSG. Not for the sake of beauty or history, but for higher rents.

yup, sounds like a great idea to spend billions of dollars the city doesn't have to build a new place for homeless people to pee all over.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.

Good.

The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

I would put real money on a skyscraper replacing MSG. Not for the sake of beauty or history, but for higher rents.

They won't restore Penn Station to its former glory, because they don't have the money for it, but if they just built a station that wasn't such a dysfunctional maze that would be OK with me.

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Fair enough.

Hopefully MSG5 will benefit from experience with its predecessors, as well as from other good, modern rinks around the country. There is opportunity in this for the Rangers (and, I suppose, for the squeakball team that also plays there).

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Fair enough.

Hopefully MSG5 will benefit from experience with its predecessors, as well as from other good, modern rinks around the country. There is opportunity in this for the Rangers (and, I suppose, for the squeakball team that also plays there).

It will never happen, but I vote for returning to the 1890 version. It looked like the Smithsonian on the outside and La Scala on the inside.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Fair enough.

Hopefully MSG5 will benefit from experience with its predecessors, as well as from other good, modern rinks around the country. There is opportunity in this for the Rangers (and, I suppose, for the squeakball team that also plays there).

It will never happen, but I vote for returning to the 1890 version. It looked like the Smithsonian on the outside and La Scala on the inside.

As long as you donate the $2-3 Billion that they'd need, I'm sure they'd consider it.

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Fair enough.

Hopefully MSG5 will benefit from experience with its predecessors, as well as from other good, modern rinks around the country. There is opportunity in this for the Rangers (and, I suppose, for the squeakball team that also plays there).

It will never happen, but I vote for returning to the 1890 version. It looked like the Smithsonian on the outside and La Scala on the inside.

As long as you donate the $2-3 Billion that they'd need, I'm sure they'd consider it.

Even if you could find the money to do it (say a few Wall Street billionaires decided to gt together and fund it) could you find an architect willing to design it? it seems like all architects want to design these days are ugly pieces of crap. But they're edgy or trendy or whatever.

Tangent, I was back in Ithaca very briefly a couple weeks ago and I was struck by the fact that all of the new buildings are god awful ugly (at least from the outside). I guess that was probably true in the 90's too, but it's more dramatic when you go away for a while and come back, as opposed to living in the place.

KeithK
Tangent, I was back in Ithaca very briefly a couple weeks ago and I was struck by the fact that all of the new buildings are god awful ugly (at least from the outside). I guess that was probably true in the 90's too, but it's more dramatic when you go away for a while and come back, as opposed to living in the place.

I decided about a decade ago that the trustees had basically given up on beauty completely, and decided to go for trendy, but since they don't have enough money for attractive trendy, they get neo-brutalist trendy.

I would say they'd all facepalm 40 years from now, but in 40 years most of them will have been dead for 20 years.

I also recall saying on this very forum some months back that this is what you get when the people making decisions about how the campus looks don't have to live there. No skin in the game.

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.
Good.

Grand Central: How a Train Station Transformed America by Sam Roberts '68 is painful to read if you commute into Penn Station not Grand Central. Going through the revived Grand Central feels like you're passing through someplace grand en route to visiting or working at someplace special. Coming out of Penn Station, it's like you're leaving somebody's basement. With all the construction going on near Penn Station, it will be hard to find someplace nearby for the next MSG, if the city forces the issue and makes MSG decamp.

billhoward

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.
Good.

Grand Central: How a Train Station Transformed America by Sam Roberts '68 is painful to read if you commute into Penn Station not Grand Central. Going through the revived Grand Central feels like you're passing through someplace grand en route to visiting or working at someplace special. Coming out of Penn Station, it's like you're leaving somebody's basement. With all the construction going on near Penn Station, it will be hard to find someplace nearby for the next MSG, if the city forces the issue and makes MSG decamp.

Brooklyn? New Jersey?

I've got it. The Bronx!

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.
Good.

Grand Central: How a Train Station Transformed America by Sam Roberts '68 is painful to read if you commute into Penn Station not Grand Central. Going through the revived Grand Central feels like you're passing through someplace grand en route to visiting or working at someplace special. Coming out of Penn Station, it's like you're leaving somebody's basement. With all the construction going on near Penn Station, it will be hard to find someplace nearby for the next MSG, if the city forces the issue and makes MSG decamp.

Brooklyn? New Jersey?

I've got it. The Bronx!

Is there anything tasked for the Hudson Yard (where the Jets were making noise about putting their new stadium last decade)? This is only a few minutes' walk from the current location.

Kyle Rose

Jeff Hopkins '82

billhoward

Trotsky
The games may outlast this incarnation of the Garden.
Good.

Grand Central: How a Train Station Transformed America by Sam Roberts '68 is painful to read if you commute into Penn Station not Grand Central. Going through the revived Grand Central feels like you're passing through someplace grand en route to visiting or working at someplace special. Coming out of Penn Station, it's like you're leaving somebody's basement. With all the construction going on near Penn Station, it will be hard to find someplace nearby for the next MSG, if the city forces the issue and makes MSG decamp.

Brooklyn? New Jersey?

I've got it. The Bronx!

Is there anything tasked for the Hudson Yard (where the Jets were making noise about putting their new stadium last decade)? This is only a few minutes' walk from the current location.

Large amounts of office space and new residential development, a new public school, some parks, an expansion and possible renovation of the outdated Javits Center.

[www.hydc.org]

I'm not sure whether there's enough open space in the plan to fit an arena, though if the stadium building boom of the past few years has taught me anything, it's that the city is happy to turn parkland over to private interests to build a new stadium.

As an alternative, a poster on another board I read (though as far as I know just a lay observer and not an insider) proposed the blocks bounded by 10th Avenue, 31st Street, 9th Avenue and 28th Street as a possible location. This would replace some old commercial buildings including a very large USPS sorting facility spanning a lot of the space in question. (Where the mail would be sorted at this point I'm really not sure, especially since the landmarked Farley Post Office is supposedly going to become part of the Penn Station complex; maybe at the big sorting facility in Newark? I don't know.) This would put the new MSG right at the mouth of the Lincoln Tunnel (hello traffic!) and still not terribly far from Penn Station (especially if the Farley Post Office becomes part of Penn Station), but no longer particularly convenient to the 6th Avenue, 7th Avenue or Broadway subways, or the PATH terminal at Herald Square.

I like what the architects did with the addition to Sage Hall and the Physical Sciences Building (that's the one where they basically built a new building around the older ones, right?). Can't think of any others that are memorable in a good way.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Given the way this country is going, maybe they could feed homeless people to lions there. It would solve several problems.

Swampy

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
The current MSG is a dump and will not be much missed, but surely you are not naïve enough to believe that the Port Authority will restore Penn Station to its former glory...?

The entire Northeast corridor jumped the shark decades ago and I don't expect anything beautiful to ever be built (or rebuilt) there again. Primarily I just want the pig pen that is the current Penn Station gone. If the way to do that is to dynamite MSG, that's fine by me, it's just as nondescript as the Coliseum and the world will be no poorer without either.

Given the way this country is going, maybe they could feed homeless people to lions there. It would solve several problems.

Snake Plissken! I thought you were dead!

I am just confused how someone can call MSG a dump after the most recent renovation. It is now like a brand new arena.

srg1
I am just confused how someone can call MSG a dump after the most recent renovation. It is now like a brand new arena.

Not necessarily MSG, but a place can be a "dump" from the instant it opens.

srg1
I am just confused how someone can call MSG a dump after the most recent renovation. It is now like a brand new arena.

Half the seats still don't have cupholders. I mean... WTF?

I'm also a big fan of seamless glass. Stanchions are so 1980's.

My wife and I organized a group of about 40 (youth hockey players and family members) to go to the game..........hope we hammer BU like we did Michigan last year!!

Trotsky

srg1
I am just confused how someone can call MSG a dump after the most recent renovation. It is now like a brand new arena.

Not necessarily MSG, but a place can be a "dump" from the instant it opens.

Seattle_Kingdome.jpg

I wouldn't call it a dump. But it was a very weird place to watch a ball game - more concrete than Vet Stadium, and that's saying something!

Aaron M. Griffin
I do not think Michigan State travels well as much as I would love to watch a Cornell-Sparty game, and unlike programs like Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State MSU does not have as many national fans who are unaffiliated with the University which would be a major detriment to selling out The Garden. From what I know, I may be wrong, Sparty does not refuse to travel East, so I think Michigan State would be better suited for a biannual home-and-home at Munn and Lynah.

I hope BU-Cornell in odd years continues as RHH editions of the Frozen Apple. I think using The Garden as a "Lynah Southeast" to get out-of-conference opponents that will not abide by Schaferian game reciprocity like Cornell did with Michigan should be considered when deciding opponents in even years. Applying this idea I'm left with two non-traveling or generally non-traveling opponents that I would like to see at the Frozen Apple: Minnesota and Wisconsin.

I would love to see the Big Red face off against the Gophers. And, the choice of Wisconsin (after getting my wish for a game against Michigan), is the next logical choice. Boston College fits this regime, but I am not obsessed with playing a very successful team that has relatively mediocre fan support in a venue as large as The Garden.

Two programs that do not or have not established a non-traveling principle that I'd like to see at future editions of the Frozen Apple are Notre Dame and Penn State. Notre Dame and Penn State have a considerable prominence of fans who are otherwise unaffiliated with either university in the New York market and that combined with the popularity of hockey in New York could draw in many passerby fans. Notre Dame, like Michigan and Penn State, have large alumni bases in New York City that will help the draw of the game. Notre Dame is nearly always competitive at the highest level of the sport having two Frozen Four appearances in the last five years. I think it'd be a fun game that might not be as lively as a game against a Michigan or Wisconsin, but would sell out just as easily.

The comments from css228 are exactly correct regarding Penn State. The large alumni base of Penn Staters in New York City and the ready access to Manhattan for the largest density of Penn State alumni in Philadelphia lends itself to good attendance numbers. Penn State fans turn out for even intercollegiate dance sport. They would undoubtedly turn out for a clash between their favored school or alma mater, and Cornell,a fellow land-grant university and a collegiate hockey program has a lot of respect from current top officials in Penn State hockey.Regarding Penn State's level of competitiveness, its program sits at 5-4-0 against Division I programs including beating RIT at Blue Cross Arena and splitting with Air Force with a commanding 5-1 game. The Nittany Lions were swept by Union, but Ken Schott said that Union was lucky to have not surrended a win to a very young and very talented first-year-NCAA Penn State team. The first game of that series ended 2-0 with an ENG and Penn State suffered a disallowed goal that would have tied the game. Penn State's later season games against Ohio State or Miami in Pittsburgh, Michigan State, and Wisconsin will be telling as to if Cornell should begin considering them for the 2014 Frozen Apple (assuming that RHH is 2013).

Since the quoted message seems to be the only one that discussed Penn State as a possible MSG opponent:

Cornell vs. Penn State, MSG, Saturday, November 29, 2014

Tickets go on sale next Monday, 2/24