Harvard 6 Cornell 1 ECAC post-game & site critique

css228

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
You might want to read Ken Schott's post-mortem on AC. A few quotes:

There were 4,131 fans there? Really?

Move the tournament
This was my first experience covering the tournament in Atlantic City. And, honestly, I didn't like it.

The games were poorly attended. There were allegedly 3,462 fans in Boardwalk Hall for Friday's two games, and 4,131 fans for Saturday's contests. Were those numbers chosen from the New Jersey Pick-4 Lottery?

There was no atmosphere in the building. At one point during the championship game, it was so quiet that I thought I was in a library and not a hockey game.

If there is a way the league can buy out the final year of its deal with Atlantic City, do it. It would save the ECACH another possible embarrassment next year.

I guess the very loud (louder than the Lynah Faithful Zajac insisted) "Messa faithful" did not show up. Also, a Union "fan" behind bnr24 and me on Saturday said that the "Cornell fans were obnoxious and made the entire [consolation] game disgusting." I am sure he enjoyed when she and I joined in with a group of other Faithful at the ECAC Championship game chanting "sieve" at both Grosenick and Girard among various other chants.

Yeah, we were told by rink security to stop,,, But it was fun until I decided it probably wasn't worth it to get myself into a situation that would have required staying in Atlantic City any longer.

They actually told you to stop yelling sieve?

Jim Hyla

css228

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
You might want to read Ken Schott's post-mortem on AC. A few quotes:

There were 4,131 fans there? Really?

Move the tournament
This was my first experience covering the tournament in Atlantic City. And, honestly, I didn't like it.

The games were poorly attended. There were allegedly 3,462 fans in Boardwalk Hall for Friday's two games, and 4,131 fans for Saturday's contests. Were those numbers chosen from the New Jersey Pick-4 Lottery?

There was no atmosphere in the building. At one point during the championship game, it was so quiet that I thought I was in a library and not a hockey game.

If there is a way the league can buy out the final year of its deal with Atlantic City, do it. It would save the ECACH another possible embarrassment next year.

I guess the very loud (louder than the Lynah Faithful Zajac insisted) "Messa faithful" did not show up. Also, a Union "fan" behind bnr24 and me on Saturday said that the "Cornell fans were obnoxious and made the entire [consolation] game disgusting." I am sure he enjoyed when she and I joined in with a group of other Faithful at the ECAC Championship game chanting "sieve" at both Grosenick and Girard among various other chants.

Yeah, we were told by rink security to stop,,, But it was fun until I decided it probably wasn't worth it to get myself into a situation that would have required staying in Atlantic City any longer.

They actually told you to stop yelling sieve

Among other things, but yes. I think at the time we were told to stop I was getting on Girard for being impressed how he gets his mask down with no hands. Definitely wasn't anything profane. Just kind of taking advantage of the complete and utter silence of the game. Even got in a Let's Go Red cheer. I think the problem was more that we were near rink cameras with mics that were definitely picking up every word we were saying. Either way, they were far less appreciative of our addition to the hockey atmosphere than were the other Faithful.

css228


consolation highlights

Oh wow. First time I'm seeing RPItv. It's beeeyoooooooootiful.

ugarte

css228


consolation highlights

Oh wow. First time I'm seeing RPItv. It's beeeyoooooooootiful.

Indeed. Makes RedCast even more obviously an embarrassment.

css228
moving back to 7:30 starts (did you see the pre-game attendance against Dartmouth?) would go a long way in re-energizing the fan base.

I don't think moving the games back to 7:30 would do anything to improve attendance. Students who are late to 7:00 games would be late to 7:30 games. The only reason the Dartmouth game filled up before the game started is that most people didn't know about the delay and thought they were arriving 5 minutes late instead of 30 minutes early. Remember, when we told a group of girls who were headed to the game while we getting dinner between the two games that the men's game was delayed, they turned around and went back to their apartment for another half hour. Plus, a later start means there's a higher risk of students leaving early to go to parties.

css228

Jim Hyla

css228

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
You might want to read Ken Schott's post-mortem on AC. A few quotes:

There were 4,131 fans there? Really?

Move the tournament
This was my first experience covering the tournament in Atlantic City. And, honestly, I didn't like it.

The games were poorly attended. There were allegedly 3,462 fans in Boardwalk Hall for Friday's two games, and 4,131 fans for Saturday's contests. Were those numbers chosen from the New Jersey Pick-4 Lottery?

There was no atmosphere in the building. At one point during the championship game, it was so quiet that I thought I was in a library and not a hockey game.

If there is a way the league can buy out the final year of its deal with Atlantic City, do it. It would save the ECACH another possible embarrassment next year.

I guess the very loud (louder than the Lynah Faithful Zajac insisted) "Messa faithful" did not show up. Also, a Union "fan" behind bnr24 and me on Saturday said that the "Cornell fans were obnoxious and made the entire [consolation] game disgusting." I am sure he enjoyed when she and I joined in with a group of other Faithful at the ECAC Championship game chanting "sieve" at both Grosenick and Girard among various other chants.

Yeah, we were told by rink security to stop,,, But it was fun until I decided it probably wasn't worth it to get myself into a situation that would have required staying in Atlantic City any longer.

They actually told you to stop yelling sieve

Among other things, but yes. I think at the time we were told to stop I was getting on Girard for being impressed how he gets his mask down with no hands. Definitely wasn't anything profane. Just kind of taking advantage of the complete and utter silence of the game. Even got in a Let's Go Red cheer. I think the problem was more that we were near rink cameras with mics that were definitely picking up every word we were saying. Either way, they were far less appreciative of our addition to the hockey atmosphere than were the other Faithful.

They told us to "settle down." I think the problem was we were too close to the camera (we were in the 2nd or 3rd row). Although the microphone guy's suggestion that I "stop sucking on helium" suggests that if my voice was lower they wouldn't have had a problem with it.

jtn27
They told us to "settle down." I think the problem was we were too close to the camera (we were in the 2nd or 3rd row). Although the microphone guy's suggestion that I "stop sucking on helium" suggests that if my voice was lower they wouldn't have had a problem with it.

"Settle down" is a polite way of asking you to stop.

css228

jtn27
They told us to "settle down." I think the problem was we were too close to the camera (we were in the 2nd or 3rd row). Although the microphone guy's suggestion that I "stop sucking on helium" suggests that if my voice was lower they wouldn't have had a problem with it.

"Settle down" is a polite way of asking you to stop.

I am aware of that. I just figured I'd put the exact quote.

Jim Hyla
You might want to read Ken Schott's post-mortem on AC. A few quotes:

There were 4,131 fans there? Really?

Move the tournament
This was my first experience covering the tournament in Atlantic City. And, honestly, I didn't like it.

The games were poorly attended. There were allegedly 3,462 fans in Boardwalk Hall for Friday's two games, and 4,131 fans for Saturday's contests. Were those numbers chosen from the New Jersey Pick-4 Lottery?

There was no atmosphere in the building. At one point during the championship game, it was so quiet that I thought I was in a library and not a hockey game.

If there is a way the league can buy out the final year of its deal with Atlantic City, do it. It would save the ECACH another possible embarrassment next year.

Few buildings one-third full have much atmosphere. A journalist from the Albany area has a parochial interest in seeing the tournament held in his readership area. That said, and ignoring that a blog written on not enough sleep and with the spellchecker disabled is one step removed from "first draft of history," Ken Schott is right on target. The tournament needs to move.

Ken is definitely biased about it, but it should be in AC anymore, that much is true. ... Bridgeport to me is a very good idea. It's a nice new arena. Absolutely nothing to do there - but at this point, whatever. Just put it in a nice building, and hope for the best. At least it's new, accessible, and a nice place to watch a game.

This is, of course, assuming they won't send it back to Lake Placid.

Re: Boston - said it before every time it comes up, will say it again ... this is not 1970 or even 1985 ... The Boston-area teams being in the ECAC tournament were a huge factor. They don't exist anymore except Harvard, and Harvard doesn't even draw for the Beanpot anymore. Also, the ECAC tournament was huge then - it had major importance, much more than today, in the grand scheme of things. Those days are gone - forget Boston.

Adam, I'll never forget Boston. Too many memories, see my signature. And yes, I get your point, we'll never go there again unless we get a sugar daddy. Never having been to a game in Bridgeport, what does it have that Albany doesn't?

Kyle Rose
I know lots of people with no Hockey East association who go to the HE tournament......

Each year that the ECACHL continues to mismanage their championship tournament, I get closer to being one of those people. Watching the HE tournament on TV reminded me of the fun tournaments that our league used to hold in Boston. Let there be no mistake, even on TV, it was clear that the TD Garden was an exciting place to be. A half-empty Boardwalk Hall (or whatever they call it)?? Not so much......

Jim Hyla
Never having been to a game in Bridgeport, what does it have that Albany doesn't?

A Metro-North stop.

adamw
Re: Boston - said it before every time it comes up, will say it again ... this is not 1970 or even 1985 ... The Boston-area teams being in the ECAC tournament were a huge factor. They don't exist anymore except Harvard, and Harvard doesn't even draw for the Beanpot anymore. Also, the ECAC tournament was huge then - it had major importance, much more than today, in the grand scheme of things. Those days are gone - forget Boston.

FYP.

Re: Bridgeport

I'd love to tell you that Bridgeport has all sorts of wonderful things, but mostly it doesn't. The arena is 10 minutes walking distance to the University of Bridgeport campus and the end of mile-long Seaside Park. Not that the park is a big draw in March.

There's not a lot to do on a Saturday in Bridgeport, but you can find a good sports bar pretty easily and it's only about a half hour up to Yale if you want to see the sights. NYC is an easy, cheap train ride on Metro North, so that's a very reasonable way to kill your Saturday daylight hours waiting to watch CU in the championship game.

css228
Among other things, but yes. I think at the time we were told to stop I was getting on Girard for being impressed how he gets his mask down with no hands. Definitely wasn't anything profane. Just kind of taking advantage of the complete and utter silence of the game. Even got in a Let's Go Red cheer. I think the problem was more that we were near rink cameras with mics that were definitely picking up every word we were saying. Either way, they were far less appreciative of our addition to the hockey atmosphere than were the other Faithful.

Were you at the bottom of 107? There were a handful of students who gamely tried to start up Cornell cheers during the start of the final and who relocated shortly afterwards. I thought they might have had a warm AC welcome from rink security.

Generally speaking, I think the Boardwalk crew did the best with what they had. Security were not overtly dickish and the turnstile and concessions people were professional. It certainly came across as a building used to holding events. From talking to random locals at the counters I got the impression they were thinking, "where is everybody?"

There were almost no "carnival" activities (I think I saw a foam puck shoot for the little ones). The head trauma iPhone app presentation was cool, and the girl at the booth was Manic Pixie Nerd Girl cute.

adamw
Harvard doesn't even draw for the Beanpot anymore.

Consolation games don't draw well.

Trotsky
Were you at the bottom of 107? There were a handful of students who gamely tried to start up Cornell cheers during the start of the final and who relocated shortly afterwards. I thought they might have had a warm AC welcome from rink security.

That was us. I'm not sure how long css stayed, but I left after about 10-15 minutes to go get dinner (even though we got told off by security, I never felt that we were in danger of being kicked out and me leaving had nothing to do with that).

Trotsky
Generally speaking, I think the Boardwalk crew did the best with what they had. Security were not overtly dickish and the turnstile and concessions people were professional.

We arrived with two strollers and asked one of the ushers if there was a place we could store them. She pointed to the wheelchair-accessible seats between 107 and 207 and said that our whole party could sit there as long as the seats weren't being used.

Oh, and to address two questions I had earlier, both kids were admitted without a ticket (security was more concerned with the outside food than the age of my son), and as most of you know, they were stamping hands for exit and re-entry between games.

Greenberg '97

Trotsky
Generally speaking, I think the Boardwalk crew did the best with what they had. Security were not overtly dickish and the turnstile and concessions people were professional.

We arrived with two strollers and asked one of the ushers if there was a place we could store them. She pointed to the wheelchair-accessible seats between 107 and 207 and said that our whole party could sit there as long as the seats weren't being used.

Oh, and to address two questions I had earlier, both kids were admitted without a ticket (security was more concerned with the outside food than the age of my son), and as most of you know, they were stamping hands for exit and re-entry between games.

Hopefully this information as to the building policies will be of use to those who are wishing that the Miss America pageant returns there and of no use to those wishing to watch ECAC hockey.

Jim Hyla
Adam, I'll never forget Boston. Too many memories, see my signature. And yes, I get your point, we'll never go there again unless we get a sugar daddy. Never having been to a game in Bridgeport, what does it have that Albany doesn't?

We will find out this weekend what is has if it outdraws Albany 2010.

Regional semifinals
March 26, 2010
3:00 PM (4) RIT 2 – 1
(1–0, 0–0, 1–1) (1) Denver Times Union Center, Albany, NY
[show]Game reference
March 26, 2010
6:30 PM (3) New Hampshire 6 – 2
(0–1, 2–0, 4–1) (2) Cornell Times Union Center, Albany, NY
Attendance: 4,073
[show]Game reference
[edit]Regional final
March 27, 2010
6:30 PM (4) RIT 6 – 2
(1–1, 3–0, 2–1) (3) New Hampshire Times Union Center, Albany, NY
Attendance: 3,737

marty

Jim Hyla
Adam, I'll never forget Boston. Too many memories, see my signature. And yes, I get your point, we'll never go there again unless we get a sugar daddy. Never having been to a game in Bridgeport, what does it have that Albany doesn't?

We will find out this weekend what is has if it outdraws Albany 2010.

Regional semifinals
March 26, 2010
3:00 PM (4) RIT 2 – 1
(1–0, 0–0, 1–1) (1) Denver Times Union Center, Albany, NY
[show]Game reference
March 26, 2010
6:30 PM (3) New Hampshire 6 – 2
(0–1, 2–0, 4–1) (2) Cornell Times Union Center, Albany, NY
Attendance: 4,073
[show]Game reference
[edit]Regional final
March 27, 2010
6:30 PM (4) RIT 6 – 2
(1–1, 3–0, 2–1) (3) New Hampshire Times Union Center, Albany, NY
Attendance: 3,737

I would be shocked if it outperformed even the 2010 NCAA East Regional in Albany. I know that many of the Faithful did not travel because of the Sweet 16 game in Syracuse the night before, but I would still be shocked if the current bracket in Bridgeport is the draw that Cornell, UNH, and RIT were in 2010. Who travels well in the East Regional this year? Michigan State and Miami are too far regionally for any appreciable amount of fans to travel. Union and UMass-Lowell have fanbases that are not known for their ability to travel well, even though they might be known for many other things.

Well, Bridgeport has had regionals in 2009 and 2011 as well ...

2011
Yale-AFA and Union-UMD ... Attendance: 7671
Yale-UMD ... Attendance: 7816

2009
Vermont-Yale and Michigan-Air Force ... Attendance: 8478 (Sellout)
Vermont-Air Force ... Attendance: 8478 (Sellout)


Of course, this doesn't mean much - because the draw is everything ... but there you go.

Albany has, of course, much more things to do in town (especially if you're a fan of Jersey Shore - the show, not the current ECAC Tournament venue) ... but Bridgeport is just a much nicer, newer arena - and with only 8500 seats - you don't have to put black draping on the upper level.

I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

Larry72
The second closest to an "event" location was Lake Placid. For those of us who experienced Cornell-Clarkson in 1970 in the old rink for the NCAA championship and/or the USA gold medal run in 1980, this is a special place. The town is still quaint, fun, and not too expensive. Yes, it's a drive for most, but not truly terrible. However, the biggest problem with it is the Olympic ice sheet. I believe that if it was 200x85, the ECAC could seriously consider it.

If I recall correctly (others can chime in here), one of the main criticisms about Placid was that hotels there were too expensive, and, more precisely, had draconian policies about minimum stays and cancellations that made it hard for people to plan to attend or not based on the results of the QFs. It's also a drive that can be dangerous if the weather is uncooperative; I know three people who had fairly serious car accidents traveling to the 1997 tournament, for example.

Kyle Rose
I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

In a rare agreement with Kyle, I would love to see the tournament move to Bridgeport. Webster Bank Arena is not scheduled to host a Division I basketball subregional in 2012 (though last year a Sound Tigers game, and by extension, our adult-league game, was bumped so Fairfield could host an NIT game).

The playing surface is exceptional, and the arena gets loud, even when at 3/4 capacity for a regular season AHL game. The Faithful could do some serious damage.

And the place is less than an hour from my house, which is something the league should take into consideration.

I'd take Bridgeport in a heartbeat!

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
Where does the Big Ten go, to Detroit? What about the new "super" conf?

B1G Hockey will play its first tournament in Saint Paul, MN at the Xcel Energy Center. The B1G is looking for a rotation (sound familiar?) of venues to be fair to its geographically disparate teams. The envisioned rotation includes Saint Paul and Detroit. However, the Xcel Energy Center is the only confirmed venue so far.

What dicks. By going with a rotation, they prevent the WCHA and the NCHA from using either of the two best choices for their tournaments. I guess maybe the NCHA will go to Denver?

(My apologies if these issues have already been settled and I'm not aware of it.)

Jordan 04
I'd take Bridgeport in a heartbeat!

I believe this is what's called a grassroots movement. The ECAC should listen to its best-travelling fan base.

Josh '99

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
Where does the Big Ten go, to Detroit? What about the new "super" conf?

B1G Hockey will play its first tournament in Saint Paul, MN at the Xcel Energy Center. The B1G is looking for a rotation (sound familiar?) of venues to be fair to its geographically disparate teams. The envisioned rotation includes Saint Paul and Detroit. However, the Xcel Energy Center is the only confirmed venue so far.

What dicks. By going with a rotation, they prevent the WCHA and the NCHA from using either of the two best choices for their tournaments. I guess maybe the NCHA will go to Denver?

(My apologies if these issues have already been settled and I'm not aware of it.)

I think all these conferences know how to rotate.

Josh '99

Larry72
The second closest to an "event" location was Lake Placid. For those of us who experienced Cornell-Clarkson in 1970 in the old rink for the NCAA championship and/or the USA gold medal run in 1980, this is a special place. The town is still quaint, fun, and not too expensive. Yes, it's a drive for most, but not truly terrible. However, the biggest problem with it is the Olympic ice sheet. I believe that if it was 200x85, the ECAC could seriously consider it.

If I recall correctly (others can chime in here), one of the main criticisms about Placid was that hotels there were too expensive, and, more precisely, had draconian policies about minimum stays and cancellations that made it hard for people to plan to attend or not based on the results of the QFs. It's also a drive that can be dangerous if the weather is uncooperative; I know three people who had fairly serious car accidents traveling to the 1997 tournament, for example.

Yes, the price and the cancellation policy made it difficult for people who weren't going to make a weekend of it.

I also remember the first year I went up to LP, I hit a deer on the way up and I learned that it's something of a rite of passage or something to hit that deer since it's happened to many others on the way up.

Greenberg '97

Kyle Rose
I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

In a rare agreement with Kyle, I would love to see the tournament move to Bridgeport. Webster Bank Arena is not scheduled to host a Division I basketball subregional in 2012 (though last year a Sound Tigers game, and by extension, our adult-league game, was bumped so Fairfield could host an NIT game).

The playing surface is exceptional, and the arena gets loud, even when at 3/4 capacity for a regular season AHL game. The Faithful could do some serious damage.

And the place is less than an hour from my house, which is something the league should take into consideration.

Albany is less than 20 minutes from my house and I am in favor of Bridgeport if the attendance is better. The league should take that into account too.

It is interesting that the second showing of Yale at Bridgeport with a better seeded team that coulda shoulda woulda been in the final four drew less fans. Familiarity breeds ennui.

judy

Josh '99

Larry72
The second closest to an "event" location was Lake Placid. For those of us who experienced Cornell-Clarkson in 1970 in the old rink for the NCAA championship and/or the USA gold medal run in 1980, this is a special place. The town is still quaint, fun, and not too expensive. Yes, it's a drive for most, but not truly terrible. However, the biggest problem with it is the Olympic ice sheet. I believe that if it was 200x85, the ECAC could seriously consider it.

If I recall correctly (others can chime in here), one of the main criticisms about Placid was that hotels there were too expensive, and, more precisely, had draconian policies about minimum stays and cancellations that made it hard for people to plan to attend or not based on the results of the QFs. It's also a drive that can be dangerous if the weather is uncooperative; I know three people who had fairly serious car accidents traveling to the 1997 tournament, for example.

Yes, the price and the cancellation policy made it difficult for people who weren't going to make a weekend of it.

I also remember the first year I went up to LP, I hit a deer on the way up and I learned that it's something of a rite of passage or something to hit that deer since it's happened to many others on the way up.

That's one tough deer!

marty
It is interesting that the second showing of Yale at Bridgeport with a better seeded team that coulda shoulda woulda been in the final four drew less fans. Familiarity breeds ennui.

It's because of the Vermont fans that were there in 2009.

adamw
Ken is definitely biased about it, but it should be in AC anymore, that much is true. ... Bridgeport to me is a very good idea. It's a nice new arena. Absolutely nothing to do there - but at this point, whatever. Just put it in a nice building, and hope for the best. At least it's new, accessible, and a nice place to watch a game.

This is, of course, assuming they won't send it back to Lake Placid.

Re: Boston - said it before every time it comes up, will say it again ... this is not 1970 or even 1985 ... The Boston-area teams being in the ECAC tournament were a huge factor. They don't exist anymore except Harvard, and Harvard doesn't even draw for the Beanpot anymore. Also, the ECAC tournament was huge then - it had major importance, much more than today, in the grand scheme of things. Those days are gone - forget Boston.

This is a stretch but while we're thinking about Bridgeport, it's worth noting that the "nothing" in the area does include a decent minor league ballpark right next door. It seems to me that with the right coordination, the league could use that facility to host fan fest type activities and pep rallies and expand the available space for receptions etc. If you set up vendors and some measure of attractions it would give folks a full day's worth of activity without having to venture into Bridgeport proper. Folks on Long Island wouldn't even need a car if they took the ferry over. If we're dreaming things up, it's certainly a way to turn nothing into something.

I have not so fond memories of hanging out at Dunn Tire Park in April 2003...

Chris '03
Folks on Long Island wouldn't even need a car if they took the ferry over.

Most of them would still need a car to get to the ferry, right?

I do like your baseball stadium fanfest idea; I'd say I share your not-so-fond memories of Dunn Tire Park, but I went from zero to blackout drunk in about 8 seconds after that game ended and don't actually remember it.

Chris '03
Folks on Long Island wouldn't even need a car if they took the ferry over.

The two biggest pluses for Bridgeport are A) an appropriately sized modern arena, and B) transit access. You have I-95, CT-8 (connects to the Merritt Parkway), MetroNorth, Amtrak, and the LI Ferry all within a couple of blocks of the arena.

The downsides are: A) More complaints about the "dumpiness" of the host city and B) Many more fans just going back to NYC after each game, rather than staying and contributing to the "festival" atmosphere of the tournament.

For people who want to feel better about the region, just go over to the center of Fairfield for your typical Stepford CT experience.

If there is any serious talk of using the baseball stadium to do some sort of fan festival for our hypothetical Bridgeport ECAC tournament, then I would suggest looking at coordinating something with the University of Bridgeport. It's a short walk to campus and an even shorter shuttle bus ride.

If nothing else, I'd coordinate a pregame get-together for elynah folks somewhere on campus.

Kyle Rose
I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

It's not really "a hell of a lot closer" than AC. They're both 5 hours, give or take. Maybe 30 min closer.

Jim Hyla

Kyle Rose
I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

It's not really "a hell of a lot closer" than AC. They're both 5 hours, give or take. Maybe 30 min closer.

Jim is spot on with the 30 min delta according to Google Maps (4:46 vs. 5:13). That's Ithaca though. It's a bunch worse for pretty much everyone else in the league except for Princeton.

Josh '99

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
Where does the Big Ten go, to Detroit? What about the new "super" conf?

B1G Hockey will play its first tournament in Saint Paul, MN at the Xcel Energy Center. The B1G is looking for a rotation (sound familiar?) of venues to be fair to its geographically disparate teams. The envisioned rotation includes Saint Paul and Detroit. However, the Xcel Energy Center is the only confirmed venue so far.

What dicks. By going with a rotation, they prevent the WCHA and the NCHA from using either of the two best choices for their tournaments. I guess maybe the NCHA will go to Denver?

(My apologies if these issues have already been settled and I'm not aware of it.)

Dick.

KeithK

Jim Hyla

Kyle Rose
I think Bridgeport is worth a try: it's roughly two hours further from Potsdam and Ithaca than Albany, which is unfortunate, but still a hell of a lot closer and cheaper than AC. Just make it one year at first instead of three in case it doesn't work out.

It's not really "a hell of a lot closer" than AC. They're both 5 hours, give or take. Maybe 30 min closer.

Jim is spot on with the 30 min delta according to Google Maps (4:46 vs. 5:13). That's Ithaca though. It's a bunch worse for pretty much everyone else in the league except for Princeton.

Yeah, I was referring to general ECAC proximity, not to Ithaca specifically.

Roy 82

Josh '99

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
Where does the Big Ten go, to Detroit? What about the new "super" conf?

B1G Hockey will play its first tournament in Saint Paul, MN at the Xcel Energy Center. The B1G is looking for a rotation (sound familiar?) of venues to be fair to its geographically disparate teams. The envisioned rotation includes Saint Paul and Detroit. However, the Xcel Energy Center is the only confirmed venue so far.

What dicks. By going with a rotation, they prevent the WCHA and the NCHA from using either of the two best choices for their tournaments. I guess maybe the NCHA will go to Denver?

(My apologies if these issues have already been settled and I'm not aware of it.)

Dick.

Characteristic.

What they need to do is play in a smaller rink, so that they fill it up and create a championship environment. I'm sure there are plenty of worthy 6-8000 arenas (like Lake Placid or Syracuse) available. 10,000 + is just too big for the league right now.

(edit: Seems like the Proletariat wants Bridgeport. I support that)

The Rancor
What they need to do is play in a smaller rink, so that they fill it up and create a championship environment. I'm sure there are plenty of worthy 6-8000 arenas (like Lake Placid or Syracuse) available. 10,000 + is just too big for the league right now.

(edit: Seems like the Proletariat wants Bridgeport. I support that)

If a group of current students and alumni of an Ivy League institution constitutes "the proletariat," what has the world come to?

Aaron M. Griffin

The Rancor
What they need to do is play in a smaller rink, so that they fill it up and create a championship environment. I'm sure there are plenty of worthy 6-8000 arenas (like Lake Placid or Syracuse) available. 10,000 + is just too big for the league right now.

(edit: Seems like the Proletariat wants Bridgeport. I support that)

If a group of current students and alumni of an Ivy League institution constitutes "the proletariat," what has the world come to?

We are the 98th percentile!

I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

I suggested Canada earlier as a radical solution, but the more I thought about it, the need for passports and that kind of logistics would make the trip kind of hard to plan for.

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC): Montreal.

There's history, too: Clarkson's founder was a hockey fanatic from Montreal. Played on the St. Lawrence River and got a breakaway.

The Rancor
What they need to do is play in a smaller rink, so that they fill it up and create a championship environment. I'm sure there are plenty of worthy 6-8000 arenas (like Lake Placid or Syracuse) available. 10,000 + is just too big for the league right now.

(edit: Seems like the Proletariat wants Bridgeport. I support that)

Commie!

When I heard that Bob Belber the Times Union Center (nee Knick Arena, aka the Pepsi Arena) was going to be on TV today I emailed the host to ask if he could bring up the ECAC and NCAA Regional loss issue. He asked about the ECACs and Belber responded. The video mentions 2013 in addition to 2014-16.

This clip will be live sometime after midnight.

Video Clip

marty
When I heard that Bob Belber the Times Union Center (nee Knick Arena, aka the Pepsi Arena) was going to be on TV today I emailed the host to ask if he could bring up the ECAC and NCAA Regional loss issue. He asked about the ECACs and Belber responded. The video mentions 2013 in addition to 2014-16.

This clip will be live sometime after midnight.

Video Clip

Thanks, Marty!

I did almost fall out of my chair when he started talking about how the U/H title game may have sold out the TUC....

Chris '03

marty
When I heard that Bob Belber the Times Union Center (nee Knick Arena, aka the Pepsi Arena) was going to be on TV today I emailed the host to ask if he could bring up the ECAC and NCAA Regional loss issue. He asked about the ECACs and Belber responded. The video mentions 2013 in addition to 2014-16.

This clip will be live sometime after midnight.

Video Clip

Thanks, Marty!

I did almost fall out of my chair when he started talking about how the U/H title game may have sold out the TUC....

"My guess is we would've had over 10,000 people." Never mind that they already played in a Final in Albany, and it barely broke 6500.

RichH
"My guess is we would've had over 10,000 people." Never mind that they already played in a Final in Albany, and it barely broke 6500.

I'm OK with the arena manager saying that. What's hysterical is the other guy saying "oh, there's no question." That was talk radio-level stupidity right there.

css228

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

I suggested Canada earlier as a radical solution, but the more I thought about it, the need for passports and that kind of logistics would make the trip kind of hard to plan for.

not for our team.

Bob Belber is just being a good salesman here. He also mentioned in this appearance that he often forces acts into Albany by packaging venues. His group controls some larger arenas. If an act wants to play in the big arena on the weekend it's often true that Albany sees them during the week. The Times Union Center's income went up in 2011 without the ECAC tourney. He is a very effective manager.

The Rancor

css228

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

I suggested Canada earlier as a radical solution, but the more I thought about it, the need for passports and that kind of logistics would make the trip kind of hard to plan for.

not for our team.

No, but what about our fans? I don't know how many current Cornellians or alumni have passports. Personally, I do not, and Canada would be a huge barrier for a lot of them. (Granted not all, but still. If we're looking for better solutions to get more fans, we shouldn't add an extra barrier.

I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

bnr24

The Rancor

css228

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

I suggested Canada earlier as a radical solution, but the more I thought about it, the need for passports and that kind of logistics would make the trip kind of hard to plan for.

not for our team.

No, but what about our fans? I don't know how many current Cornellians or alumni have passports. Personally, I do not, and Canada would be a huge barrier for a lot of them. (Granted not all, but still. If we're looking for better solutions to get more fans, we shouldn't add an extra barrier.

Also, I know that geographically Upstate New York and Canada are proximate, but I do not know how many Upstaters (a significant portion of the ECAC fanbase with Clarkson, Colgate, Cornell, RPI, SLU, and Union) would be amenable to going to Canada to see their team play in another nation. Upstate New York is very proud of its hockey tradition. Even though they will cheer on players from Canada who come to play at august Upstate institutions, I doubt many would be happy to travel to Canada. Furthermore, I know that there are rumors that Toronto is in talks to host the 2015 Frozen Four, but Toronto has less of a language barrier (as manageable as it might be) than Montreal.

bnr24

The Rancor

css228

BMac
I can't nobody has mentioned this... (it may be because it's stupid, but hey, so is AC):

Montreal.

Ithaca, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 4:49
Ithaca, NY to Montreal, QC: 5:34

Boston, MA to Montreal, QC: 5:28
Boston, MA to Lake Placid, NY: 5:23

providence, RI to Lake Placid, NY: 5:18
Providence, RI to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

New Haven, CT to Lake Placid, NY: 5:05
New Haven, CT to Montreal, QC, Canada: 6:16

Albany, NY to Lake Placid, NY: 2:32
Albany, NY to Montreal, QC, Canada: 3:43


And so on, and so forth.

It's close to the North Country teams. It's just as close to Cornell as Lake Placid. Nobody else goes anyways, and if they did it would be a weekend trip so what's 5 versus 6 hours?

It's a destination, and lord knows they like hockey enough.

I suggested Canada earlier as a radical solution, but the more I thought about it, the need for passports and that kind of logistics would make the trip kind of hard to plan for.

not for our team.

No, but what about our fans? I don't know how many current Cornellians or alumni have passports. Personally, I do not, and Canada would be a huge barrier for a lot of them. (Granted not all, but still. If we're looking for better solutions to get more fans, we shouldn't add an extra barrier.

Agreed. I have a passport, but I definitely don't keep it with me at school, and getting it from home to my place in Ithaca on a week's notice would be expensive at the least. For people who don't already have them, it'd be impossible to get it on short notice, assuming they don't want to drive down to the State Department for an expedited passport. Furthermore, the people of Montreal love watching the Q and their Habs. That's no guarantee they would come out for American College Hockey. And the Bell Centre is a big building. Basically, as great a destination as it would undeniably be, attendance would probably be worse than AC. It would definitely be a lot of empty seats to look at.

Robb
I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense. Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases. If they did Ottawa, the Civic Centre would make more sense than Scotiabank Place. I think the Ottawa Civic Centre holds around 9K and the K-Rock Centre in Kingston is around 6K. They could even make it part of a triple header with a 67s or Frontenacs game. The ECAC semis and finals are typically the same weekend as the last regular season games in the O.

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport? And it would have the added benefit of whatever undergrads came would be able to legally come out for drinks after the games. The biggest drawback would be the likelihood of snow may be even more than any of the other sites discussed, except I guess Lake Placid?

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

Ronald '09

Robb
I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense. Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases. If they did Ottawa, the Civic Centre would make more sense than Scotiabank Place. I think the Ottawa Civic Centre holds around 9K and the K-Rock Centre in Kingston is around 6K. They could even make it part of a triple header with a 67s or Frontenacs game. The ECAC semis and finals are typically the same weekend as the last regular season games in the O.

I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport? And it would have the added benefit of whatever undergrads came would be able to legally come out for drinks after the games. The biggest drawback would be the likelihood of snow may be even more than any of the other sites discussed, except I guess Lake Placid?

Its a matter of having one or getting one on short notice. I know very few students who keep their passports with them at school even if they have them, for the matter of fact that school isn't the best place to keep your sensitive documents. Besides the only way to get one on short notice, and lets face it college students aren't the best at planning ahead, is to go to DC and for extra expense of expediting it. You're right, a passport is not hard to get if you plan ahead, but come on, that's not your average students strong point.

Play it on a barge outside the 15 mile limit. "Roads? Where we're going we don't need any roads."

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Aaron M. Griffin
Also, I know that geographically Upstate New York and Canada are proximate, but I do not know how many Upstaters (a significant portion of the ECAC fanbase with Clarkson, Colgate, Cornell, RPI, SLU, and Union) would be amenable to going to Canada to see their team play in another nation. Upstate New York is very proud of its hockey tradition. Even though they will cheer on players from Canada who come to play at august Upstate institutions, I doubt many would be happy to travel to Canada. Furthermore, I know that there are rumors that Toronto is in talks to host the 2015 Frozen Four, but Toronto has less of a language barrier (as manageable as it might be) than Montreal.

Clarkson has played non-conference games in Ottawa in recent years (vs. SLU in 2006 and Colgate in 2003) and they played North Dakota in Winnipeg THIS season. But yeah, I don't think moving the conference championship to Canada is the answer for most of the reasons already spelled out.

A side observation: this season, Clarkson played neutral-site games in Alaska, Manitoba, Florida, Maine, and Lake Placid. Impressive, but where was the Arizona trip, slackers?

marty
Bob Belber is just being a good salesman here. He also mentioned in this appearance that he often forces acts into Albany by packaging venues. His group controls some larger arenas. If an act wants to play in the big arena on the weekend it's often true that Albany sees them during the week. The Times Union Center's income went up in 2011 without the ECAC tourney. He is a very effective manager.

That answers my question from yesterday when I wondered how Albany got a date on Bruce Springsteen's current tour.

Ronald '09

Robb
I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense. Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

jtn27

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

Yup. Over a hundred and for students or recent alumni on a budget who are already scraping money together to go to a tournament, an extra hundred dollars (assuming that they can actually get it in time which would not be feasible at all) is a lot.

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

Chris '03

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States. I think that students going abroad to pursue academic programs with students from other nations who will engage in such cultural exchanges are prioritized higher than students who are crossing the border for a few days to watch hockey and drink at an age that is considered too young in the United States.

Aaron M. Griffin

Chris '03

Aaron M. Griffin

jtn27

Beeeej

Ronald '09
I don't think passports are that huge an issue, because honestly, how hard is it to get a passport?

If we're looking for was to reduce the expense of an average undergrad's trip to the ECAC tournament, the difficulty of obtaining one doesn't matter as much as the cost. And last I checked, that was over $100.

The State Department website isn't really clear about how long it takes to get a passport, but it seems like it usually takes 4-6 weeks and could take as long as 10 weeks unless you apply for an expedited passport and even then it's 2-3 weeks. That basically will prevent fans that don't already have passports from attending the game even if they're willing to pay the extra $60 for an expedited passport.

Turnaround can be much faster but it is far more costlier. Also, that is assuming there are no bureaucratic errors. The State Department made an error with my passport last summer, and generated and delivered a new one within two days. Then again, it could be because I needed it to take courses with Chief Justice Roberts over the summer in Florence. I don't think that the "I really need a passport to attend a hockey tournament" argument carries the same weight.

I'm not sure "law student" ranks much higher on the state department's priority list over "hockey fan."

The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States. I think that students going abroad to pursue academic programs with students from other nations who will engage in such cultural exchanges are prioritized higher than students who are crossing the border for a few days to watch hockey and drink at an age that is considered too young in the United States.

I think the fact that you were studying with the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court and not some random Italian professor might have also helped you, but the fact remains that a hockey tournament is probably not a good enough reason to get a passport on short notice.

If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport. Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh). It isn't much faster than getting a passport.

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars. Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport). I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

jtwcornell91

Ronald '09

Robb
I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense. Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

From NYC it costs $500+ to fly to Newfoundland and you're lucky if you can find a flight with just one connection in each direction. From Syracuse it's $750+ and you almost certainly have to make two connections. From Ithaca, once Kayak stops laughing at you, it's close to $1k and three connections.

Alternately, from Ithaca it's 1,822 miles by car (about as far as Regina, Saskatchewan, is in the other direction) that includes a 90-mile, seven-hour ferry ride (costing, if I'm reading the website right, about $100 per car plus $40 per passenger) from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Newfoundland itself. It's also about 10 degrees colder than Ithaca in March, on average, and they get almost twice as much snow.

In short: sign me up!

Josh '99

jtwcornell91

Ronald '09

Robb
I seriously doubt you'd get ANY local support in Montreal, either. There aren't too many Quebecois in the ECAC, and Montrealers are notoriously parochial about their hockey support. There are more Ontario kids in the ECAC, so if you were going to consider Canada (which you shouldn't) Ottowa or Toronto are better bets.

I agree Montreal wouldn't make any sense, but smaller Canadian cities like Ottawa or even smaller, maybe Kingston could make sense. Geographically, I'm not sure if there's any other cities with teams in the O or the Q that make sense, but Kingston seems like it should be a reasonable distance from the best traveling ECAC fan bases.

We could get players' parents (and recruits) if we held it in Nanaimo (I was going to advocate St. Johns, which would be awesome for postgame drinking, but we seem to be limited to about one Newfoundlander every 10 years.)

From NYC it costs $500+ to fly to Newfoundland and you're lucky if you can find a flight with just one connection in each direction. From Syracuse it's $750+ and you almost certainly have to make two connections. From Ithaca, once Kayak stops laughing at you, it's close to $1k and three connections.

Alternately, from Ithaca it's 1,822 miles by car (about as far as Regina, Saskatchewan, is in the other direction) that includes a 90-mile, seven-hour ferry ride (costing, if I'm reading the website right, about $100 per car plus $40 per passenger) from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Newfoundland itself. It's also about 10 degrees colder than Ithaca in March, on average, and they get almost twice as much snow.

In short: sign me up!

Sign me up for St. Johns. What could be better than the tropical island of Newfoundland? Hockey, drinking and Great Big Sea!

CKinsland
If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport. Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh). It isn't much faster than getting a passport.

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars. Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport). I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

I agree, any NY resident who even thinks about ever going to Canada should get an enhanced license. It's definately faster than a passport and you use it just like a regular drivers license. As an example, if you're in Buffalo you can just decide on the spur of the moment to go to Canada. If we ever again have a regional in Grand Rapids, you can drive through Canada. Definately worth the money, but you can't fly with it, only walk or drive. But we'll never have ECACs in Canada.

Really, it's pathetic that we need any sort of identification beyond a regular driver's license. Not to start a political screed, but this is what comes from being ruled by governors from the South. By rights, the Canada/US border should be the breeziest, wheeziest, fastest gettin' through border between non-Schengen states. We all know that's not the case.

Clearly, we need to build a wall to prevent people from walking across the border in, say, upper Montana.

Jim Hyla

CKinsland
If you're driving across the border into Canada you can use an "enhanced driver's license" as ID instead of a passport. Cheaper and somewhat easier to get than a passport (though, it does require a trip to the DMV....ugh). It isn't much faster than getting a passport.

In my case, getting one for myself and enhanced, non-driver state IDs for my minor-age children instead of getting passports saved me a few hundred dollars. Plus, I didn't have to deal with getting their father to sign anything (which I would have had to do for a passport). I guess the government isn't concerned that I'm going to kidnap the children and flee to Canada or Mexico.

I do think the ID requirements make Canada a poor choice for the ECAC tourney...but somebody on here might want to cross the border and, I dunno, enjoy the pleasures of Ste Catherine St.

Enhanced IDs are a useful alternative to a full passport, but they do not have the broad utility of a passport.

CK

I agree, any NY resident who even thinks about ever going to Canada should get an enhanced license. It's definately faster than a passport and you use it just like a regular drivers license. As an example, if you're in Buffalo you can just decide on the spur of the moment to go to Canada. If we ever again have a regional in Grand Rapids, you can drive through Canada. Definately worth the money, but you can't fly with it, only walk or drive. But we'll never have ECACs in Canada.

This is interesting because I renewed my license here in CT a few months ago and was given the option of paying more and getting the enhanced license. They told me that my license would expire before I needed it to fly and that it otherwise had no purpose whatsoever so there was no point in getting it even though I'd dug through papers for an hour to find the 75 required points of ID. Apparently passport isn't good enough. You need passport AND birth certificate AND social security card or something equally ridiculous.

None of the paperwork mentioned anything about Canada, only air travel.

Aaron M. Griffin
The State Department, especially under the current administration, advocates student-student cultural exchanges as one of the most effective elements of soft power for the United States.

Move Hockey East to Mogadishu and take Boston back.

Chris '03
This is interesting because I renewed my license here in CT a few months ago and was given the option of paying more and getting the enhanced license. They told me that my license would expire before I needed it to fly and that it otherwise had no purpose whatsoever so there was no point in getting it even though I'd dug through papers for an hour to find the 75 required points of ID. Apparently passport isn't good enough. You need passport AND birth certificate AND social security card or something equally ridiculous.

None of the paperwork mentioned anything about Canada, only air travel.

The enhanced licenses (EDL) are only good for non-air travel between the US, Canada, Mexico and some Caribbean Islands (so, useful for cruise ship travel to select locations). The kids and I have been across the border into Canada a couple of times in the last two years (we live in Ithaca). We've never had a delay or any issues with using them.

I don't recall it being a ridiculous list of ID items required. Perhaps social security card, birth certificate and proof of residence (in our three cases, bank statements to our home address was sufficient).

Maybe CT is far enough from the border that your DMV workers aren't as familiar with their uses?

CK

So Union is pulling a Harvard.

By Ken Schott
Thursday, March 22, 2012

With the Union students on their winter trimester break, the Dutchmen's band won't be playing at the NCAA hockey tournament East Regionals in Bridgeport, Conn.

But the team did the next-best thing — it hired the Sacred Heart band to sit in.

Did they have a band at AC?

Jim Hyla
So Union is pulling a Harvard.

By Ken Schott
Thursday, March 22, 2012

With the Union students on their winter trimester break, the Dutchmen's band won't be playing at the NCAA hockey tournament East Regionals in Bridgeport, Conn.

But the team did the next-best thing — it hired the Sacred Heart band to sit in.

Did they have a band at AC?

No. That's what I found odd when Without a Peer wrote about their choice to hire a band for the East Regional.

Jim Hyla
So Union is pulling a Harvard.

By Ken Schott
Thursday, March 22, 2012

With the Union students on their winter trimester break, the Dutchmen's band won't be playing at the NCAA hockey tournament East Regionals in Bridgeport, Conn.

But the team did the next-best thing — it hired the Sacred Heart band to sit in.

Did they have a band at AC?

A: Union, Harvard, and North Korea
Q: What are teams that have to hire fake fans?

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
So Union is pulling a Harvard.

By Ken Schott
Thursday, March 22, 2012

With the Union students on their winter trimester break, the Dutchmen's band won't be playing at the NCAA hockey tournament East Regionals in Bridgeport, Conn.

But the team did the next-best thing — it hired the Sacred Heart band to sit in.

Did they have a band at AC?

No. That's what I found odd when Without a Peer wrote about their choice to hire a band for the East Regional.

I didn't think they did, but wondered when I read that. I guess they felt their ECAC fans didn't deserve it. And maybe they didn't.

Interesting Times-Union article on Union hockey.

Jim Hyla
Interesting Times-Union article on Union hockey.

They made The New York Times too.

Jim Hyla

Aaron M. Griffin

Jim Hyla
So Union is pulling a Harvard.

By Ken Schott
Thursday, March 22, 2012

With the Union students on their winter trimester break, the Dutchmen's band won't be playing at the NCAA hockey tournament East Regionals in Bridgeport, Conn.

But the team did the next-best thing — it hired the Sacred Heart band to sit in.

Did they have a band at AC?

No. That's what I found odd when Without a Peer wrote about their choice to hire a band for the East Regional.

I didn't think they did, but wondered when I read that. I guess they felt their ECAC fans didn't deserve it. And maybe they didn't.

As our Cornell group was walking from dinner to the NCAA Championship game in Tampa, I overheard a good chunk of a conversation a Union official or other in-the-know guy was having. There was a 25-person Union band at the semifinal wearing white t-shirts with the Union logo. According to this guy I eavesdropped on, they were actually members of the University of South Florida band that Union hired.

He also provided some further insight. The story as I heard it is that Union only has 8-12 kids in the band (I think it's new), and when the NCAA informed them that the band of the higher seed plays the National Anthem at Tournament games, the director said "oh, they can't handle that yet," and Union decided to hire substitute bands. That's an acceptable excuse, but I hope that they still gave those Union bandies an opportunity to travel and play with SHU and USF.

RichH

As our Cornell group was walking from dinner to the NCAA Championship game in Tampa, I overheard a good chunk of a conversation a Union official or other in-the-know guy was having. There was a 25-person Union band at the semifinal wearing white t-shirts with the Union logo. According to this guy I eavesdropped on, they were actually members of the University of South Florida band that Union hired.

He also provided some further insight. The story as I heard it is that Union only has 8-12 kids in the band (I think it's new), and when the NCAA informed them that the band of the higher seed plays the National Anthem at Tournament games, the director said "oh, they can't handle that yet," and Union decided to hire substitute bands. That's an acceptable excuse, but I hope that they still gave those Union bandies an opportunity to travel and play with SHU and USF.

I think that just barely clears the very high bar for what is considered an acceptable reason to hire another school's band, but it begs the question what self-respecting college band can't play the national anthem or learn it with 2 weeks notice? No matter how badly the band played it, it couldn't possibly be worse than what the Fray did at the basketball championship game.

jtn27

RichH

As our Cornell group was walking from dinner to the NCAA Championship game in Tampa, I overheard a good chunk of a conversation a Union official or other in-the-know guy was having. There was a 25-person Union band at the semifinal wearing white t-shirts with the Union logo. According to this guy I eavesdropped on, they were actually members of the University of South Florida band that Union hired.

He also provided some further insight. The story as I heard it is that Union only has 8-12 kids in the band (I think it's new), and when the NCAA informed them that the band of the higher seed plays the National Anthem at Tournament games, the director said "oh, they can't handle that yet," and Union decided to hire substitute bands. That's an acceptable excuse, but I hope that they still gave those Union bandies an opportunity to travel and play with SHU and USF.

I think that just barely clears the very high bar for what is considered an acceptable reason to hire another school's band, but it begs the question what self-respecting college band can't play the national anthem or learn it with 2 weeks notice? No matter how badly the band played it, it couldn't possibly be worse than what the Fray did at the basketball championship game.

At the Michigan game, our band played the anthem. Knowing that it was normally done by the higher seeded team, I figured that the Michigan band passed on the opportunity, as it wasn't in their one song repertoire.

According to an article in the Schenectady Daily Gazette, the ECAC will finish out the third year of its contract with Atlantic City's Boardwalk Hall, and is accepting bids for the tournament for 2014-16. Albany's Times-Union Center has already announced that it will submit a bid. Atlantic City, Lake Placid, Bridgeport, and Providence are also expected to submit bids.

jtn27
According to an article in the Schenectady Daily Gazette, the ECAC will finish out the third year of its contract with Atlantic City's Boardwalk Hall...

That's not how I read it. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I found a blissful lack of certitude regarding where next year's tournament will be, e.g., Hagwell did not weigh in to say, "Gee, we'll definitely be back in AC next year, but the bid process is wide open after that."

Scersk '97

jtn27
According to an article in the Schenectady Daily Gazette, the ECAC will finish out the third year of its contract with Atlantic City's Boardwalk Hall...

That's not how I read it. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I found a blissful lack of certitude regarding where next year's tournament will be, e.g., Hagwell did not weigh in to say, "Gee, we'll definitely be back in AC next year, but the bid process is wide open after that."

I interpreted this part to mean that it would be back in AC next year:

"Ken Schott"
The bid is for the 2014-16 tournaments. The ECACH tournament concludes its three-year deal with Atlantic City, N.J., next season.

If they weren't planning on returning in 2013, the bid would be for 2013-16.

jtn27

If they weren't planning on returning in 2013, the bid would be for 2013-16.

If you watch this video (which I posted a few weeks ago) you will likely come to the conclusion that the 14-16 contract is not connected to next year. I am not saying that I expect the contract to be broken, but the bid process was set weeks ago.




Belber of TU Center

Do we really need to be reminded of this game while having a discussion about future ECAC venues?

It would be nice if they used the final option year of the AC contract to do a one year demo at another site. If AC had been on a probational period it might have been cancelled after one year.

Trotsky
It would be nice if they used the final option year of the AC contract to do a one year demo at another site. If AC had been on a probational period it might have been cancelled after one year.

But we can hope that the ECAC was on a probational period, and that AC may pull the plug.

jtn27
Atlantic City, Lake Placid, Bridgeport, and Providence are also expected to submit bids.

The article says:

Besides the TU Center, which hosted the tournament from 2003-10, and Atlantic City, the ECACH could hear bids from Bridgeport, Conn., Lake Placid and Providence, R.I.

I think even the passive-voiced "are also expected to submit bids" is probably too strong a wording of what Ken Schott actually wrote.

Someone mentioned it and inquired about it somewhere, but it's official, B1G Hockey will use a rotation between Saint Paul, MN and Detroit, MI for its tournament host site. Right now, it looks like the B1G Hockey Tournament will be hosted in Saint Paul on even years and Detroit on odd years.

Aaron M. Griffin
Someone mentioned it and inquired about it somewhere, but it's official, B1G Hockey will use a rotation between Saint Paul, MN and Detroit, MI for its tournament host site. Right now, it looks like the B1G Hockey Tournament will be hosted in Saint Paul on even years and Detroit on odd years.

Jerks