John Harvards Pregame for Lynah East

Although I was not involved in planning or publicizing the below event, I have learned about it and wanted to make others aware of it:

Per discussions with the Cornell Club of Boston and office of alumni affairs, and as stated in the link below, I have learned that Cornell has apparently rented out all of John Harvards in Harvard Square from 1630-1830 on 11 November before the Lynah East game. Accordingly, the only apparent way to enter John Harvards is to buy a reception ticket in advance, and the website indicates that walk-ins will not be permitted.

On one hand, it's kind of nice not to have to fight for a table/reservation like we used to do every year. On the other hand, renting out the restaurant kind of defeats the purpose that Cornell has "taken over" a Harvard student landmark.

Regardless of the above, I know that JHs has been for some time the go-to place for pregame meetups and I wanted to share this information with you. Below is the CCOB link, and, following that, the alumni association link for purchasing tickets.

Hope to see lots of familiar faces in Boston. LGR

Mike '04

CCOB: [www.cornellclub.org]
Payment: [secure.www.alumniconnections.com]

Hmmm... let's see: I now can pay what amounts to about $13 extra ($18 minus one drink) for the privilege of going back to the same place I've been for the last 10 years, only without the fun of subjecting the non-Cornellians in the establishment to the hockey chants, or I can find somewhere else to go that the greater Cornell Overfiend hasn't decided to take over, corporatize, and profit from, all without adding any value.

I'm failing to see the value proposition here.

Kyle Rose
I'm failing to see the value proposition here.

This way you get to complain about how nobody besides you understands the right way to do things. That's worth at least $13.

Beeeej

Kyle Rose
I'm failing to see the value proposition here.

This way you get to complain about how nobody besides you understands the right way to do things. That's worth at least $13.

I should start charging for my rants. There might be a Chivas Regal effect there.

And get off my lawn, dammit. [/angrily shakes walker]

True. Hadn't thought about the no non-Cornellian factor. they can't even try to come in for a drink and see our crowd. another ding.

i imagine the cornell club must have had to shell out a serious amount of money to john harvards to take over the entire restaurant for two hours on a friday night, in order for it to have been financially feasible for the restaurant to agree. i wonder if there arent many takers on the reception if the restaurant would let in the general public?

Despite the general sentiment on this board, I have no doubt the reception will be packed. The CCOB is large and enthusiastic, and they always fill a couple of sections at Bright for the game. Moreover, the event page says you have to buy either a reception ticket, or a reception ticket and a game ticket - no game tickets alone. So expect John Harvard's to be full.

A-19
i imagine the cornell club must have had to shell out a serious amount of money to john harvards to take over the entire restaurant for two hours on a friday night, in order for it to have been financially feasible for the restaurant to agree.

A little bird tells me that they're actually closed all day Friday in preparation for this thing, so it's obviously big $$$.

Beeeej
Despite the general sentiment on this board, I have no doubt the reception will be packed. The CCOB is large and enthusiastic, and they always fill a couple of sections at Bright for the game.

Then why not take over some restaurant not near the rink, since most of these people are going to be driving their Bentleys to the game, anyway? Leave JH's to those of us walking or taking the T, not coming in from Weston and Wellesley.

Edit: I realize I am now getting slightly ridiculous, but in all seriousness, these people need a beatdown for interfering with something that worked just fine for over a decade.

Edit2: My folks will be in that weekend, and we'll probably hit Foundry on Elm around 5, if anyone is interested in joining us.

Kyle Rose
something that worked just fine for over a decade.

I know for a fact that we went to JH's before the game on 2/12/94, so it's at least 17 years running.

In all honesty, it's crap like this that makes me avoid official alumni associations. I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, and it's probably not in their cost-benefit ratio to give a hoot -- but if anyone from CCOB is listening in, you're alienating me.

ftyuv
In all honesty, it's crap like this that makes me avoid official alumni associations. I know I'm probably in the minority on this one, and it's probably not in their cost-benefit ratio to give a hoot -- but if anyone from CCOB is listening in, you're alienating me.

seconded.

I just sent the link to this thread to the Programming Committee chair for the CCOB. I know he's not on ELF and wouldn't have seen this, but it's brought to his attention.

Edit: His response is below. This means if you want it to change, get a lot of people to call Cornell and say, poor choice.


> Thanks for sharing. Yes, we've heard from some people, and believe me, we
> took a lot of things into consideration. No matter which way I look at it, I
> don't see the issue, nor am I concerned about too much here. I try to
> empathize as much as I can (and believe me, I was not the loudest voice on
> this discussion -- it was actually the biggest Cornell (hockey) fan I've
> ever met, Tom Pasniewski '98, who follows eLynah), but we need to do
> something. The reception/game is our biggest event of the year. John
> Harvard's only provided us with a small room in the past and we had a lot of
> complaints because of the space, the noise, the food, and beer. We did
> everything we could this year to negotiate with JH's to buy out the entire
> restaurant so people would be more comfortable and we could have more
> people. Inevitably, some people will be upset. I'm sorry to hear that and I
> hope they don't take anything personally. No event is perfect, nor can it
> make everyone happy or accommodate everyone. But it's also pretty shallow,
> base, and selfish for people to be completely turned off by the prospect
> that we're trying to include more Cornellians. I'm not directing that at one
> or two people or targeting them as people, but the argument. And we are
> making zero dollars on this. We break-even. We had to put money up front to
> buy it out, and we had to charge accordingly so that we don't make or lose
> money (it's possible we'll still lose some money, but we can take that risk
> for the whole purpose of this event).
>
> If there were a couple of hundred people sharing their frustrations I'd see
> this as a problem and believe me, Cornell would take notice. But at the end
> of the day, my/our jobs as both volunteers and for those paid by Cornell,
> our goal is to bring a lot of people out for a high-quality, memorable
> experience for the sake of Cornell pride and fun. I'm not seeing that here,
> and again, I do this for a living so I've seen and heard them all.
>
> Happy to chat more and by no means do I, or anyone else, want to offend or
> upset anyone. If people want to see something different, why don't they
> raise their hands and help us better understand their demands and interests?
> We survey people both formally and informally and balance the needs of as
> many people as we can all the time. Inevitably, this still happens. We've
> already sold 300 tickets to the reception, and we have capacity for 500. I
> hope those people will show up and introduce themselves to those of us who
> want to see people happy and having fun, rather than just sharing their
> feelings on eLynah.

munchkin
> our goal is to bring a lot of people out for a high-quality, memorable
> experience for the sake of Cornell pride and fun.

While I appreciate the well thought out response from the CCoB's committee chair, I was of the opinion that's JH's has been this kind of experience for the last 12+ years without anyone's involvement. Being that I have friends coming from out of town that will likely only have time for a quick beer before the game, we're going someplace else.

sawyer

munchkin
> our goal is to bring a lot of people out for a high-quality, memorable
> experience for the sake of Cornell pride and fun.

While I appreciate the well thought out response from the CCoB's committee chair, I was of the opinion that's JH's has been this kind of experience for the last 12+ years without anyone's involvement. Being that I have friends coming from out of town that will likely only have time for a quick beer before the game, we're going someplace else.

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.

(We get a freighter?)

munchkin
Edit: His response is below. This means if you want it to change, get a lot of people to call Cornell and say, poor choice.

His response is utterly tone-deaf, and precisely what I expected. Spontaneous order doesn't provide him with the experience his more important alumni want, so he takes control and then tells everyone else we're being unreasonable for not being sufficiently appreciative at having our annual event co-opted.

Kyle Rose

sawyer

munchkin
> our goal is to bring a lot of people out for a high-quality, memorable
> experience for the sake of Cornell pride and fun.

While I appreciate the well thought out response from the CCoB's committee chair, I was of the opinion that's JH's has been this kind of experience for the last 12+ years without anyone's involvement. Being that I have friends coming from out of town that will likely only have time for a quick beer before the game, we're going someplace else.

The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.

(We get a freighter?)

Strikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

Al DeFlorio
Strikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

As I said to Robin yesterday in a PM, if this is a good deal for JH's, then they are right to do it no matter how much I don't like it: it's not like I'm a regular there whom they are in danger of pissing off. That doesn't mean, however, that I have to happy about the situation or that I shouldn't tell CCOB what I think of their actions.

FWIW, when you stopped being insightful and switched to scoring cheap points in flippant posts in an attempt to (I guess?) stay relevant, I stopped caring what you think. Judging from the continued activity on this thread, there is a vibrant discussion going on here, but please don't let that distract you from your vendetta against me.

munchkin

>
> If there were a couple of hundred people sharing their frustrations I'd see
> this as a problem and believe me, Cornell would take notice.

I'm guessing that there may very well be a couple hundred people sharing their frustrations - at about 5 pm on game night standing outside John Harvard's, since most people probably will not have heard about the co-opting. Utter chaos will ensue - fabulous.

Kyle Rose

munchkin
Edit: His response is below. This means if you want it to change, get a lot of people to call Cornell and say, poor choice.

His response is utterly tone-deaf, and precisely what I expected. Spontaneous order doesn't provide him with the experience his more important alumni want, so he takes control and then tells everyone else we're being unreasonable for not being sufficiently appreciative at having our annual event co-opted.

Everybody go to the Hong Kong instead. Pre-game Scorpion Bowls for all!

Seriously, now: This is ridiculous, if you ask me. CCOB is seizing what was an *inclusive* event and making it exclusionary. There are a LOT of people who come in from outside of Boston for this game, and John Harvard's became the default "I don't know when we'll get into town, but let's just meet there," meeting spot. For CCOB to just claim it as their own and charge admission is the opposite of what this community and what Cornell Hockey fandom is all about, IMO. To whine "ewwhhh, the room we reserved was too small, so we're going to steal everyone else's ball and play instead" is simply more elitist bullshit I hate to see.

RichH
Seriously, now: This is ridiculous, if you ask me. CCOB is seizing what was an *inclusive* event and making it exclusionary. There are a LOT of people who come in from outside of Boston for this game, and John Harvard's became the default "I don't know when we'll get into town, but let's just meet there," meeting spot. For CCOB to just claim it as their own and charge admission is the opposite of what this community and what Cornell Hockey fandom is all about, IMO. To whine "ewwhhh, the room we reserved was too small, so we're going to steal everyone else's ball and play instead" is simply more elitist bullshit I hate to see.

Well said. FWIW, I emailed John Harvard's management to make sure they are aware that there are many of us who won't be there this year but will return in future years if things go back to normal. I honestly think we'll have better traction with them than with the CCOB, but either way it can't hurt: I turned the diplomacy way up for my email, something that was easy because I have no particular beef with them.

The disconnect here is between a freewheeling place to meet (which is what the young and the young-at-heart want) and the more controlled atmosphere of an "event" (which is what people who join and stay active in alumni organizations want). What everyone seems to agree on is that John Harvard's is where they want their drinking to happen.

That's why the best solution (CCOB sending out an email blast saying "John Harvard's is the unofficial meeting place for Cornell hockey fans. See you there!" ) will never happen and why they had to reserve the whole bar. As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Kyle Rose
something that was easy because I have no particular beef with them.

Give it time.

ftyuv
it's probably not in their cost-benefit ratio to give a hoot -- but if anyone from CCOB is listening in, you're alienating me.

CCOB guy
No matter which way I look at it, I don't see the issue, nor am I concerned about too much here.

Do I win any points for being right?

munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

Someone mentioned HK as an alternative. It's a bit farther a walk, but not a bad option. I wonder if we could get a permit for the park next to the bridge, and just do a good ol' fashioned tailgate. It'll be a bit chilly, but nothing that Ithacan Februaries haven't already thrown our way!

ugarte
As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Leave it to the other guy who lives in Brooklyn to point out the appeal of being able to say "I went to John Harvard's before it was cool".

ftyuv
munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Still bothers me that he doesn't really care. He was never a hockey fan as an undergrad (that I'm aware of), nor does he get the culture of the alumni fans.

I also support going to HK. I'm usually only there once a year for the Head of the Charles, despite living within a few miles, but I could make an exception for some pregame revelry.

munchkin

ftyuv
munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Yikes, egg on my face -- didn't mean to crap on the organization you help out with. But while I'm at it, this is the bit that irked me in his email:

But it's also pretty shallow, base, and selfish for people to be completely turned off by the prospect that we're trying to include more Cornellians.

Imho, what's selfish is the perspective that the only way to include more Cornellians is to buy out the restaurant. As ugarte said, he could have been just as inclusive by just telling people that that's the tradition, and they're welcome to come join the rest of the Cornellians who have been going there for years. Ah well. (I know I'm preaching to the choir, sorry.)

To say nothing of his use of the serial comma. That's the real injustice!

Indeed the finger-pointing at the "shallow and selfish" people who want to drop in and have a beer at JH's was the height of irony.

I think it's a shame what CCOB did.

ftyuv

munchkin

ftyuv
munchkin, thanks for bringing this to his attention. I considered emailing them, but frankly I don't trust them with my email address. The kind of organization that would pull this move is the same kind that could well respond to a "I don't like what you've done" email with "thanks for the comment, and we've taken the liberty of adding you to our mailing list."

I'm already on his radar since I'm the volunteer coordinator for CCoB - I'm a low level volunteer under his programming committee. When the CCoB goes out in the community, generally, I'm one of the people behind the planning and organizing.

Yikes, egg on my face -- didn't mean to crap on the organization you help out with. But while I'm at it, this is the bit that irked me in his email:

But it's also pretty shallow, base, and selfish for people to be completely turned off by the prospect that we're trying to include more Cornellians.

Imho, what's selfish is the perspective that the only way to include more Cornellians is to buy out the restaurant. As ugarte said, he could have been just as inclusive by just telling people that that's the tradition, and they're welcome to come join the rest of the Cornellians who have been going there for years. Ah well. (I know I'm preaching to the choir, sorry.)

To say nothing of his use of the serial comma. That's the real injustice!

I agree, that it's wrong for him to call our group - which is typically the most dedicated of fans - selfish for wanting to socialize with all the other fans who come out for the Harvard game without paying for the priviledge to do so. I'm back in school, I'm not about to drop $18 for a couple hours of socializing when I could be using that to buy a couple growlers down at Harpoon to drink elsewhere.

No worries about insulting the CCoB. I did a lot of volunteer coordination at Cornell with APO (community service fraternity) so this is just an extension of that for me. I also have nothing to do with the other events that go on.

Al DeFlorio
trikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

why doesn't this message board have a "like" function similar to stupid ole facebook?

Josh '99

ugarte
As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Leave it to the other guy who lives in Brooklyn to point out the appeal of being able to say "I went to John Harvard's before it was cool".

I live in Brooklyn but in a neighborhood you probably haven't heard of.

ugarte

Josh '99

ugarte
As for the people put out by John Harvard's being taken over... it's just a bar that you go to once a year. The advantage of picking another bar is that you get to say how much better it is than John Harvard's ever was.

Leave it to the other guy who lives in Brooklyn to point out the appeal of being able to say "I went to John Harvard's before it was cool".

I live in Brooklyn but in a neighborhood you probably haven't heard of.

I hadn't heard of it before it was cool.

Ben Rocky '04

Al DeFlorio
trikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

why doesn't this message board have a "like" function similar to stupid ole facebook?

Only if there's both a Like and a Dislike button. It would save time having to come up with an appropriately sarcastic or dismissive emoticon for the posts you don't like.

billhoward

Ben Rocky '04

Al DeFlorio
trikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

why doesn't this message board have a "like" function similar to stupid ole facebook?

Only if there's both a Like and a Dislike button. It would save time having to come up with an appropriately sarcastic or dismissive emoticon for the posts you don't like.

Typical

I "bring" ~10 people with me every year (meaning I'm the chosen one in my group of friends who organizes the ticket-buying and reminds everyone to fly into town on the right day).

We very quickly decided not to go to JH this year. It's sad, but we're not paying $18 bucks for a drink and the opportunity to do something we used to do for free (sit at a table and have dinner).

I don't understand how it's "selfish and base" for us to think this way- the system worked fine, it was free, and now we have to pay. It was inclusive before, and now a whole group of people are being forced to stay out by charging a fee.

BMac
I don't understand how it's "selfish and base" for us to think this way

That's because it isn't. That was just an inept attempt by the CC guy to rebrand officiousness as inclusiveness.

As has been pointed out above, this just gives fans a chance to sample other options in the area, which is a Good Thing.

billhoward

Ben Rocky '04

Al DeFlorio
trikes me, Kyle, that this is an example of your beloved "market" at work. CCOB rented the hall. You didn't. Hard cheese. Stop whining.

why doesn't this message board have a "like" function similar to stupid ole facebook?

Only if there's both a Like and a Dislike button. It would save time having to come up with an appropriately sarcastic or dismissive emoticon for the posts you don't like.

I disliked your post, just on principle.

So, what's the feedback on this event, from anyone who attended?

Did not attend, went after the game with big group and had a blast. Looks like we weren't the only ones in the "go when it's free" camp.

Killer
So, what's the feedback on this event, from anyone who attended?

We went because our friends we were meeting up with suggested it. The food was so-so. There were long lines at some of the food stations, and the section we sat in originally had two food stations, but one of them was shut down when it ran out of food. You also got a drink included in your admission, and there was a decent choice of wine and beer. The best part was just seeing the place packed with hundreds of Cornellians having a good time.

dbilmes
The food was so-so. There were long lines at some of the food stations, and the section we sat in originally had two food stations, but one of them was shut down when it ran out of food. You also got a drink included in your admission, and there was a decent choice of wine and beer.

So long waits, and not enough of the middling, pre-paid food?

dbilmes
The best part was just seeing the place packed with hundreds of Cornellians having a good time.

...And will therefore undoubtedly be declared a roaring success by organizers, even if this happens, you know, every year. Without the lines, or mediocre, rationed food.

Jordan 04
...And will therefore undoubtedly be declared a roaring success by organizers, even if this happens, you know, every year. Without the lines, or mediocre, rationed food.

After considering this situation on and off for the past two weeks, I think what annoys me the most about the whole thing is that the CCOB took over the most convenient venue for a large spontaneous gathering when they could have held their event in some convention hall rented from Harvard without any substantive difference in experience for their attendees.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04
...And will therefore undoubtedly be declared a roaring success by organizers, even if this happens, you know, every year. Without the lines, or mediocre, rationed food.

After considering this situation on and off for the past two weeks, I think what annoys me the most about the whole thing is that the CCOB took over the most convenient venue for a large spontaneous gathering when they could have held their event in some convention hall rented from Harvard without any substantive difference in experience for their attendees.

I recall the CCOB renting space at an adjacent Harvard building at least a few times. They had Hot Truck food at one of them.

....I would pay $18 for THAT!!!!

I would agree with the long waits, although when we first got there at 5:15, there wasn't much of a wait, but over the 1.5 hours we were there, we got plenty of food. I would not say there was a shortage.

All in all, I would go to this event again, although I'd prefer if there were more of the "true" Faithful there.