National Collegiate Hockey Conference

Announcement

I haven't hadn't seen this posted elsewhere on elynah because I hadn't read all the threads.

What a ridiculous name. Is this the best that some marketing guy could come up with?

Actually it's a presumptuous name, IMO. They're national, everyone else is regional.

“I don’t think you’re going to see us stay at six [teams],” [Colorado College athletic director Ken] Ralph said. “I think you’re going to see us grow to seven or to eight or maybe beyond. And we’re not going to have a geographic boundary."

[www.uscho.com]

With ambiguous numbers and geography this might have been the best they could do.

USCHO also reported a rumor that BU and BC were invited but this has been denied.

Jeff Hopkins '82
Actually it's a presumptuous name, IMO. They're national, everyone else is regional.

My first thought exactly.

I guess that all makes sense. Its just a terrible sounding name but I guess that's just my opinion.

So no geographic boundaries. Hasn't travel, and more specifically air fare been a big cost for some of these schools?

nyc94
“I don’t think you’re going to see us stay at six [teams],” [Colorado College athletic director Ken] Ralph said. “I think you’re going to see us grow to seven or to eight or maybe beyond. And we’re not going to have a geographic boundary."

[www.uscho.com]

With ambiguous numbers and geography this might have been the best they could do.

USCHO also reported a rumor that BU and BC were invited but this has been denied.

I think this is the best comment following the USCHO article:

MSU Grad97
This is very similar to the Division III conference National Collegiate Hockey Association in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Funny how they tried to rob the name of a current conference that once had Mankato, Bemidji, and St. Cloud in its glory days, but they were not good enough just this year to be included in this 2010-2011 super conference. I suppose they'll get Minnesota Crookston back on its feet now so the Susies and Bullsnots can whip up on them. Good luck against St. Scholastica and that Duluth rivalry!

Read more: [www.uscho.com]

scoop85

Jeff Hopkins '82
Actually it's a presumptuous name, IMO. They're national, everyone else is regional.

My first thought exactly.

I'm surprised NCAA allowed the name because of the likelihood of how National Collegiate Hockey Conference Champs would be (mis)construed by non college hockey insiders.

"nancy-HC"

judy
So no geographic boundaries. Hasn't travel, and more specifically air fare been a big cost for some of these schools?

Most of the teams involved were already flying for most or their trips so this doesn't change anything. Of the six I'd say that this impacts the budget of Miami most, since they were mostly busing in the CCHA.

KeithK

judy
So no geographic boundaries. Hasn't travel, and more specifically air fare been a big cost for some of these schools?

Most of the teams involved were already flying for most or their trips so this doesn't change anything. Of the six I'd say that this impacts the budget of Miami most, since they were mostly busing in the CCHA.

It's also worth noting that at 6 teams, each school only has to make 5 road trips for league games, which limits the impact of having to fly everywhere. These schools can then try to cherry pick non-conference road games and load up on home non-conference games. The bigger the league gets, the more the travel costs will become a factor.

The costs don't seem to be scaring WMU: [whywestern.com]

What's wrong with it?

NiC HiC

jeff '84
I'm surprised NCAA allowed the name because of the likelihood of how National Collegiate Hockey Conference Champs would be (mis)construed by non college hockey insiders.

Exactly. College conferences are evolving to alignments of the most powerful. Natural pecking order, etcetera. It will require even more NCAA ads to remind people these are student-athletes with carefully crafted messages about how 96% of NCAA tournament money is spent on the tournament (including all the NCAA travel party) and how student-athletes graduate at a higher rate (or is it have a better GPA) than students as a whole. I've never seen an ad during the NCAA basketball tournament that says the 64 chosen teams have a higher GPA or graduation rate than their student bodies. Kentucky's starting five probably brings down the other 63 teams.

So as the scholarship D1 schools spiral out of control, how big of a scandal will it take for an implosion and a return to true student sports? I'm guessing there is no scandal too big.

I confess I like the table at the end of the article showing national titles by 2013-14 conference affiliation. The ECAC would have a total of five, while the WCHA, the king of all college hockey to hear them tell it, would have three. All by Michigan Tech, which should tell you how long ago that was (1975 was their last one).

If Northern Michigan does join the re-imaged WCHA, that would boost their total to four.

Give My Regards
I confess I like the table at the end of the article showing national titles by 2013-14 conference affiliation. The ECAC would have a total of five, while the WCHA, the king of all college hockey to hear them tell it, would have three. All by Michigan Tech, which should tell you how long ago that was (1975 was their last one).

If Northern Michigan does join the re-imaged WCHA, that would boost their total to four.

Our "WZHA" joke becomes much less ironic now. My next question is which conference assumes the "most insufferable fans" title: BTHC or the Nancies.

do all of BU's titles belong to the ECAC?

RichH

Give My Regards
I confess I like the table at the end of the article showing national titles by 2013-14 conference affiliation. The ECAC would have a total of five, while the WCHA, the king of all college hockey to hear them tell it, would have three. All by Michigan Tech, which should tell you how long ago that was (1975 was their last one).

If Northern Michigan does join the re-imaged WCHA, that would boost their total to four.

Our "WZHA" joke becomes much less ironic now. My next question is which conference assumes the "most insufferable fans" title: BTHC or the Nancies.

The remnants of the CCHA & WCHA are suffering the same fate as the ECAC did in 1984. In the best-case scenario (i.e., no programs get eliminated), the impact on those conferences will be similar.

cbuckser
The remnants of the CCHA & WCHA are suffering the same fate as the ECAC did in 1984.

Strongly disagree. In 1984 the ECAC lost 40% of its traditional power programs (BU, BC) but kept the rest (Cornell, Clarkson, Harvard). The CCHA and WCHA just lost everything.

Trotsky

cbuckser
The remnants of the CCHA & WCHA are suffering the same fate as the ECAC did in 1984.

Strongly disagree. In 1984 the ECAC lost 40% of its traditional power programs (BU, BC) but kept the rest (Cornell, Clarkson, Harvard). The CCHA and WCHA just lost everything.

The spiteful part of me wants to enjoy the schadenfreude watching the pompous WCHA types suffer. But this is bad for college hockey so the better part of my nature is trying to resist the temptation.

KeithK
The spiteful part of me wants to enjoy the schadenfreude watching the pompous WCHA types suffer. But this is bad for college hockey so the better part of my nature is trying to resist the temptation.

Anyway, the most pompous WCHA types are now pompous NCHC types (NoDak) or even more pompous BTHC types (Minny).

With the formation of the National Collegiate Hockey Conference ("national"... seriously?) and the departure (return) of Northern Michigan to the WCHA, it seemed a good time to update the map of the 2013 hockey landscape. My apologies on the color for the NCHC, but, while I wanted to emphasize how it was all clearly about money, I had already used "puke" for the BTHC.


[clear]

What strikes me is how North Dakota and UMD could have formed the nucleus of a "Northern" league, including Northern Michigan and LSSU, and Denver, CC, and UNO could have gone together with the remainders of the CCHA to form a "Southern" league, perhaps even including Alabama-Huntsville. But, as I said above, this was clearly about the $$$.

I fear that LSSU will be "left out in the cold."

Nice map. If the CCHA and WCHA combined, LSSU would be the "hinge" of the new conference.

So western hockey goes from two conferences of around 12 apiece to four conferences of six, thus doubling the number of automatic bids issued to western schools. Hardly seems fair. Maybe the ECAC should split into two six team leagues who just happen to play an interlocking schedule and a single tournament.

Anyone care to speculate to what degree the new alignment will impact PWR rankings? Does playing in the six team Nancy's or the six team Big-Twen significantly improve your ranking? Eliminating a bunch of lower ranked teams from the schedule should help some. But assuming they go with 20 game conference schedules there will be a lot of non conference games to fill that might end up against "lower" ranked teams. Unless the conference end up with some sort of interlocking schedule. In theory the two new conferences could have a 12 game interlocking non-conference schedule.

This all sucks, by the way.

And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

jtwcornell91
perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac.

Why would that be in any way likely to happen?

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

Given Air Force's current conference affiliation, it seems like they don't really give a crap about travel expenses (insert obvious joke about airplanes here) and will land on their feet however things shake out. (Last year they made an Alaska trip and seven trips East.)

Scersk '97
With the formation of the National Collegiate Hockey Conference ("national"... seriously?) and the departure (return) of Northern Michigan to the WCHA, it seemed a good time to update the map of the 2013 hockey landscape. My apologies on the color for the NCHC, but, while I wanted to emphasize how it was all clearly about money, I had already used "puke" for the BTHC.

hockey_map2.png

[clear]

What strikes me is how North Dakota and UMD could have formed the nucleus of a "Northern" league, including Northern Michigan and LSSU, and Denver, CC, and UNO could have gone together with the remainders of the CCHA to form a "Southern" league, perhaps even including Alabama-Huntsville. But, as I said above, this was clearly about the $$$.

I fear that LSSU will be "left out in the cold."

If you were so inclined, you could claim that UND and UMD would rather be grouped with Denver and CC and Miami, rather than NMU and MTU and LSSU, in order to play in a stronger conference because that better prepares you to win championships, and that isn't really about the money. I'm not so inclined, personally, but I think you could at least plausibly claim that.

Josh '99

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

Given Air Force's current conference affiliation, it seems like they don't really give a crap about travel expenses (insert obvious joke about airplanes military spending here) and will land on their feet however things shake out. (Last year they made an Alaska trip and seven trips East.)

FYP

Josh '99

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

Given Air Force's current conference affiliation, it seems like they don't really give a crap about travel expenses (insert obvious joke about airplanes here) and will land on their feet however things shake out. (Last year they made an Alaska trip and seven trips East.)

The AHA might care, especially if it gets reduced to its New England core.

In retrospect, CCHA - WMU - Notre Dame - UAF + RMU + Mercyhurst + Canisius + Niagara = 7 teams, so in this scenario RIT might end up as the 8th CCHA team, even without scholarships. The resulting league would even have reasonable travel partnerships: LS/FS, BG/RM, Mh/Ca, RT/Ni. I guess this implicitly assumes the WCHA fills itself out to 8 teams with UAF and USAFA.

jtwcornell91
LS/FS

4 hours between games is pretty tough for a travel-partner type arrangement, but *just* doable.

Robb

jtwcornell91
LS/FS

4 hours between games is pretty tough for a travel-partner type arrangement, but *just* doable.

For reference, Google Maps says it takes 2 hrs 56 mins to travel from Hamden to Princeton, and we all know that can take much longer depending on the traffic. I would say 4 hrs through, well, no traffic to speak of is just fine.

Indeed, given the lake effect off of Erie, I find Bowling Green to Pittsburgh more suspect.

Josh '99
If you were so inclined, you could claim that UND and UMD would rather be grouped with Denver and CC and Miami, rather than NMU and MTU and LSSU, in order to play in a stronger conference because that better prepares you to win championships, and that isn't really about the money. I'm not so inclined, personally, but I think you could at least plausibly claim that.

That would be like Mike Hampton claiming that he signed with the Rockies because of the school system in Colorado.

Scersk '97

Robb

jtwcornell91
LS/FS

4 hours between games is pretty tough for a travel-partner type arrangement, but *just* doable.

For reference, Google Maps says it takes 2 hrs 56 mins to travel from Hamden to Princeton, and we all know that can take much longer depending on the traffic. I would say 4 hrs through, well, no traffic to speak of is just fine.

Indeed, given the lake effect off of Erie, I find Bowling Green to Pittsburgh more suspect.

Don't forget the Cornell-Columbia travel partnership in Ivy basketball...

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

This was expected. It makes some sense for the schools involved. There isn't much change to travel and at least Mercyhurst and Niagara want to go back to 8 scholarships. The domino hasn't fallen yet but I'd guess it's better than 50-50 that it does.

Scersk '97

Robb

jtwcornell91
LS/FS

4 hours between games is pretty tough for a travel-partner type arrangement, but *just* doable.

For reference, Google Maps says it takes 2 hrs 56 mins to travel from Hamden to Princeton, and we all know that can take much longer depending on the traffic. I would say 4 hrs through, well, no traffic to speak of is just fine.

Indeed, given the lake effect off of Erie, I find Bowling Green to Pittsburgh more suspect.

OK, but what makes everybody assume they even want to set up a travel partner arrangement? Haven't the Western Conferences done more of a "weekend series" schedule anyway? The old WCHA & CCHA generally played a 2 home, 2 away in-conference schedule. We ECACHL'ers are always so obsessed in trying to fit our elegant scheduling system to other conferences and when teams change in our own conference. It really doesn't have to work for other conferences, and it doesn't given the distances you're discussing now. If I were a Western coach/fan, staying in one place for the weekend seems pretty preferable. Especially now with 6-team conferences who will have a lot more in-conference games to fill.

RichH
OK, but what makes everybody assume they even want to set up a travel partner arrangement? ... Especially now with 6-team conferences who will have a lot more in-conference games to fill.

Agreed. A travel partner setup is kind of silly in a six team league when you're probably playing four games against each opponent. Going to Ferris State one weekend and Western Michigan another weekend makes more sense than two trips that visit both. Less traveling time and less logistical effort. This may not apply for BC/BU?Northeastern, but anywhere you have to travel between partnerships you're better off staying put if you can.

Things get complicated when you get up to 10 teams in the league where you're probably playing three games against each opponent. Then you probably have both two game sets and mixed weekends. HE managed that for years with nine, albeit in a very compact league. If memory serves the CCHA did as well back in the day though I don't recall either the team count or the scheduling details offhand.

RichH
We ECACHL'ers are always so obsessed in trying to fit our elegant scheduling system to other conferences and when teams change in our own conference. It really doesn't have to work for other conferences, and it doesn't given the distances you're discussing now. If I were a Western coach/fan, staying in one place for the weekend seems pretty preferable. Especially now with 6-team conferences who will have a lot more in-conference games to fill.

Fair point. But it is SO elegant.

RichH

Scersk '97

Robb

jtwcornell91
LS/FS

4 hours between games is pretty tough for a travel-partner type arrangement, but *just* doable.

For reference, Google Maps says it takes 2 hrs 56 mins to travel from Hamden to Princeton, and we all know that can take much longer depending on the traffic. I would say 4 hrs through, well, no traffic to speak of is just fine.

Indeed, given the lake effect off of Erie, I find Bowling Green to Pittsburgh more suspect.

OK, but what makes everybody assume they even want to set up a travel partner arrangement? Haven't the Western Conferences done more of a "weekend series" schedule anyway? The old WCHA & CCHA generally played a 2 home, 2 away in-conference schedule. We ECACHL'ers are always so obsessed in trying to fit our elegant scheduling system to other conferences and when teams change in our own conference. It really doesn't have to work for other conferences, and it doesn't given the distances you're discussing now. If I were a Western coach/fan, staying in one place for the weekend seems pretty preferable. Especially now with 6-team conferences who will have a lot more in-conference games to fill.

Folks, remember. These are scholarship schools. The scholarship is in the money. So they could use pairings for ease of scheduling but allow a day or two between games with the first or second partner. Instead if 4 hrs between games, it could easily be 40 hrs.

Swampy
Folks, remember. These are scholarship schools. The scholarship is in the money. So they could use pairings for ease of scheduling but allow a day or two between games with the first or second partner. Instead if 4 hrs between games, it could easily be 40 hrs.

Maximizing attendance dollars probably means scheduling games on Friday and Saturday nights. Television obviously could dictate games at other times, The new CCHA and WCHA probably will have less television coverage without the big boys but what they do get could drive them to funny hours. I could see a network scheduling a weekly BTHC or Nancy game for Saturday night and relegating CCHA/WCHA to Sunday afternoon, for instance.

Though if the trend in college hockey is toward doing everything for the money then we could see random mid week games popping up to get television coverage, the way it is in squeakball.

Oh, completely secondly agreed. Travel partnerships generally don't make sense west of Buffalo.

The Rancor
do all of BU's titles belong to the ECAC?

Not 2009!

Trotsky

KeithK
The spiteful part of me wants to enjoy the schadenfreude watching the pompous WCHA types suffer. But this is bad for college hockey so the better part of my nature is trying to resist the temptation.

Anyway, the most pompous WCHA types are now pompous NCHC types (NoDak) or even more pompous BTHC types (Minny).

Exactly and now they are a NATIONAL league.

Josh '99

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

Given Air Force's current conference affiliation, it seems like they don't really give a crap about travel expenses (insert obvious joke about airplanes here) and will land on their feet however things shake out. (Last year they made an Alaska trip and seven trips East.)

Your tax dollars at rest.

marty

Josh '99

jtwcornell91
And now it sounds like the CCHA might poach RMU, Mercyhurst, Niagara and Canisius to replace its losses. Bad news for RIT if it happens, but perhaps it will eventually lead to the Ivies splitting off and the ECAC grabbing RIT and Army as travel partners for Colgate and Quinnipiac. Then Air Force may be in the same boat as Alabama-Huntsville...

Given Air Force's current conference affiliation, it seems like they don't really give a crap about travel expenses (insert obvious joke about airplanes here) and will land on their feet however things shake out. (Last year they made an Alaska trip and seven trips East.)

Your tax dollars at rest.

Jet Noise: The Sound of Freedom

Looks like the WCHA is going to absorb the remainder of the CCHA, pending each individual school's approval:

[www.collegehockeynews.com]

So we are now at:

WCHA:

UAA
UAF
Bemidji
BGSU *
Ferris
Lake State
Mankato
MTU
NMU
Notre Dame **
St. Cloud
WMU *


NCHC:

Denver
CC
Miami
Minn-Duluth
UNO
North Dakota

* could still move to NCHC
** could still move to NCHC or HE

Trotsky
So we are now at:

WCHA:

UAA
UAF
Bemidji
BGSU *
Ferris
Lake State
Mankato
MTU
NMU
Notre Dame **
St. Cloud
WMU *


NCHC:

Denver
CC
Miami
Minn-Duluth
UNO
North Dakota

* could still move to NCHC
** could still move to NCHC or HE

SCREWED:

Alabama-Huntsville

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
So we are now at:

WCHA:

UAA
UAF
Bemidji
BGSU *
Ferris
Lake State
Mankato
MTU
NMU
Notre Dame **
St. Cloud
WMU *


NCHC:

Denver
CC
Miami
Minn-Duluth
UNO
North Dakota

* could still move to NCHC
** could still move to NCHC or HE

SCREWED:

Alabama-Huntsville

You know, NCAA hockey is great and all, but... eh. UAH is like 500 miles away from the closest hockey school. It makes zero geographical sense to have a program there. They have no natural rivalries, no conference that makes any sense for them to be a part of, honestly probably no other program that would bat an eye if they dropped their program. So if that happens... eh.

Josh '99
You know, NCAA hockey is great and all, but... eh. UAH is like 500 miles away from the closest hockey school. It makes zero geographical sense to have a program there. They have no natural rivalries, no conference that makes any sense for them to be a part of, honestly probably no other program that would bat an eye if they dropped their program. So if that happens... eh.

It's too bad Alabama-Birmingham could not have held on to their program. Then they would have had at least as much of a shot as the Alaska schools.

Of course, Kentucky could always go D-1...

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
So we are now at:

WCHA:

UAA
UAF
Bemidji
BGSU *
Ferris
Lake State
Mankato
MTU
NMU
Notre Dame **
St. Cloud
WMU *


NCHC:

Denver
CC
Miami
Minn-Duluth
UNO
North Dakota

* could still move to NCHC
** could still move to NCHC or HE

SCREWED:

Alabama-Huntsville

So, you want to save Alabama-Huntsville?

Jim Hyla
So, you want to save Alabama-Huntsville?

I almost expected that to be a Kickstarter page.

Jim Hyla

Jeff Hopkins '82

Trotsky
So we are now at:

WCHA:

UAA
UAF
Bemidji
BGSU *
Ferris
Lake State
Mankato
MTU
NMU
Notre Dame **
St. Cloud
WMU *


NCHC:

Denver
CC
Miami
Minn-Duluth
UNO
North Dakota

* could still move to NCHC
** could still move to NCHC or HE

SCREWED:

Alabama-Huntsville

So, you want to save Alabama-Huntsville?

[www.change.org]

CHN on WMU and St. Cloud going to NCHC.

Via USCHO article on what Bowling Green might do, and the AHA schools as well.

A further iteration of the map, including the recent Western and St. Cloud announcement and showing the rump CCHA.

Scersk '97
A further iteration of the map, including the recent Western and St. Cloud announcement and showing the rump CCHA.

It would be fair to say that Notre Dame and BGSU are independent now also.

ugarte

Scersk '97
A further iteration of the map, including the recent Western and St. Cloud announcement and showing the rump CCHA.

It would be fair to say that Notre Dame and BGSU are independent now also.

More on BGSU from CHN.

Discussion at CHN about RPI going to HE if ND does and here.

Jim Hyla
Discussion at CHN about RPI going to HE if ND does and here.

That would suck.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Jim Hyla
Discussion at CHN about RPI going to HE if ND does and here.

That would suck.

It certainly would.

UConn has always been the natural choice for future HEA expansion. They fit the profile and geography and already have a rival in UMass. It's a shame they've never supported the program enough in Storrs.

One good thing about HEA getting to 12 would be the increase in OOC games those schools would have to fill.

Jim Hyla
Discussion at CHN about RPI going to HE if ND does and here.

Well, the sum total of the RPI mention in the first article is this:

A popular candidate for a 12th team is RPI, which is currently in the ECAC.

In the second it's this:

On the other hand, RPI was courted by Hockey East twice before, when it was formed in the early '80s, and again in the mid-'90s, ultimately deciding against it both times. And, most importantly, the idea is supported by its current administration, including head coach Seth Appert and athletic director Jim Knowlton (despite his lip service to the contrary, as was reported Tuesday by Ken Schott of the Schnectady Gazette).

which is admittedly worse.

According to the USCHO reporters, both Notre Dame and RPI to Hockey East looking like a real possibility, if not likelihood: USCHO Hockey East Preview

For that to occur, you'd have to think UCONN has made clear it has no intention of becoming a serious player in college hockey.

If RPI does leave -- and I'd be disappointed if they do -- RIT would seemingly be the obvious replacement.

Here's more from Schott of the Schenectady Gazette.

That means Notre Dame won't be joining Colorado College, Denver, Miami University, Minnesota Duluth, Nebraska Omaha, North Dakota, St. Cloud State and Western Michigan in the conference. It is looking more and more like the Fighting Irish will leave the CCHA to join Hockey East in 2013-14, and that could mean RPI may join them.

While RPI athletic director Jim Knowlton and Engineers coach Seth Appert said they were happy with being in ECAC Hockey, the lure of moving to a conference with Boston College, Boston University, Maine and New Hampshire may be enough to end RPI's time in the ECACH.

There are also rumblings that Cornell is being courted by Hockey East.

Not that I think any of these rumblings mean anything. With our Ivy restrictions how would we pull this off?

Jim Hyla
Here's more from Schott of the Schenectady Gazette.

That means Notre Dame won't be joining Colorado College, Denver, Miami University, Minnesota Duluth, Nebraska Omaha, North Dakota, St. Cloud State and Western Michigan in the conference. It is looking more and more like the Fighting Irish will leave the CCHA to join Hockey East in 2013-14, and that could mean RPI may join them.

While RPI athletic director Jim Knowlton and Engineers coach Seth Appert said they were happy with being in ECAC Hockey, the lure of moving to a conference with Boston College, Boston University, Maine and New Hampshire may be enough to end RPI's time in the ECACH.

There are also rumblings that Cornell is being courted by Hockey East.

Not that I think any of these rumblings mean anything. With our Ivy restrictions how would we pull this off?

Those seem like pretty ridiculous rumblings. Aside from the Ivy factor, we're the westernmost of the ECAC schools. Then again, if HE is taking Notre Dame, they've apparently abandoned the concept of geography...

jtwcornell91
Those seem like pretty ridiculous rumblings.

Somebody's pulling Ken Schott's leg. "Just trying to capture the spirit of the thing, Reg."

This is pretty much pissing me off. Can someone explain to me how a school with such a poor historical hockey record can manage to hold the sport hostage? Or why the powers-that-be in college hockey are allowing themselves to be held hostage by such a weak program? Am I the only person to see this as a tail-wagging-the-dog situation? A tiny, insignificant tail.

Notre Dame has a total of 15 winning seasons in the modern era. 15 out of 42 seasons at the D-1 level. Four of them came in the last 5 years. As recently as 2005, they posted a stellar 5-27-6 season, and they have 5 total NCAA tournament appearances to their name. A program with so much support, they were dropped to a club sport in the 1980s.

Why do they get to call the shots here? Because of a football team that hasn't been relevant since Lou Holtz stepped down?

I get the BTHC move. I'm not happy about it, but I get it. That forced the remaining Western schools to make the moves that subsequently happened. And now just when the dust has cleared and we have a solution that works, with two leagues that would be fine with their membership, Notre Dame...again...NOTRE DAME decides that they might want to blast a hole into the Eastern landscape as well? I'm sorry, who are you again? Where did this "Notre Dame is deciding its next conference" crap come from? Why aren't we asking UAH what conference THEY would like to join first?

I'm sure schools like Merrimack, Lowell, Northeastern are going to love the additional budget they have to cover for travel out to freaking Chicagoland. SAY NO, HOCKEY EAST. JUST SAY NO TO THEM. They belong with the new WCHA, but if the NCHC will take them, just ducky. Or stay independent like your coach-blaming shell of a football program. Stay out of the East.

Ah, the more I think about it, the angrier I get...Go to hell, Notre Dame.

RichH
This is pretty much pissing me off. Can someone explain to me how a school with such a poor historical hockey record can manage to hold the sport hostage? Or why the powers-that-be in college hockey are allowing themselves to be held hostage by such a weak program? Am I the only person to see this as a tail-wagging-the-dog situation? A tiny, insignificant tail.

Notre Dame has a total of 15 winning seasons in the modern era. 15 out of 42 seasons at the D-1 level. Four of them came in the last 5 years. As recently as 2005, they posted a stellar 5-27-6 season, and they have 5 total NCAA tournament appearances to their name. A program with so much support, they were dropped to a club sport in the 1980s.

Why do they get to call the shots here? Because of a football team that hasn't been relevant since Lou Holtz stepped down?

I get the BTHC move. I'm not happy about it, but I get it. That forced the remaining Western schools to make the moves that subsequently happened. And now just when the dust has cleared and we have a solution that works, with two leagues that would be fine with their membership, Notre Dame...again...NOTRE DAME decides that they might want to blast a hole into the Eastern landscape as well? I'm sorry, who are you again? Where did this "Notre Dame is deciding its next conference" crap come from? Why aren't we asking UAH what conference THEY would like to join first?

I'm sure schools like Merrimack, Lowell, Northeastern are going to love the additional budget they have to cover for travel out to freaking Chicagoland. SAY NO, HOCKEY EAST. JUST SAY NO TO THEM. They belong with the new WCHA, but if the NCHC will take them, just ducky. Or stay independent like your coach-blaming shell of a football program. Stay out of the East.

Ah, the more I think about it, the angrier I get...Go to hell, Notre Dame.

Well, I'm sure that if HE didn't want them they wouldn't be talking. So, I don't think they are being held hostage. In fact maybe NCHC got tired and said so long, but I doubt it. As much as I dislike ND, I don't think they are holding anyone hostage that doesn't want to be held. Of course they are also the no. 1 ranked preseason.

RichH
This is pretty much pissing me off. Can someone explain to me how a school with such a poor historical hockey record can manage to hold the sport hostage? Or why the powers-that-be in college hockey are allowing themselves to be held hostage by such a weak program? Am I the only person to see this as a tail-wagging-the-dog situation? A tiny, insignificant tail.

Notre Dame has a total of 15 winning seasons in the modern era. 15 out of 42 seasons at the D-1 level. Four of them came in the last 5 years. As recently as 2005, they posted a stellar 5-27-6 season, and they have 5 total NCAA tournament appearances to their name. A program with so much support, they were dropped to a club sport in the 1980s.

Why do they get to call the shots here? Because of a football team that hasn't been relevant since Lou Holtz stepped down?

I get the BTHC move. I'm not happy about it, but I get it. That forced the remaining Western schools to make the moves that subsequently happened. And now just when the dust has cleared and we have a solution that works, with two leagues that would be fine with their membership, Notre Dame...again...NOTRE DAME decides that they might want to blast a hole into the Eastern landscape as well? I'm sorry, who are you again? Where did this "Notre Dame is deciding its next conference" crap come from? Why aren't we asking UAH what conference THEY would like to join first?

I'm sure schools like Merrimack, Lowell, Northeastern are going to love the additional budget they have to cover for travel out to freaking Chicagoland. SAY NO, HOCKEY EAST. JUST SAY NO TO THEM. They belong with the new WCHA, but if the NCHC will take them, just ducky. Or stay independent like your coach-blaming shell of a football program. Stay out of the East.

Ah, the more I think about it, the angrier I get...Go to hell, Notre Dame.

IMHO, there is a lot of short-term thinking in the realignment. UMD is the national champion, but they were at the bottom of the WCHA not so long ago and could be back at that level in another few. Miami's coach has made them one of the best teams in recent years, but will they still be there when he leaves.

This. And this^3.

When Jeff Jackson croaks, Notre Dame will become the unwanted country cousin of Hockey East.

The only way I end up happy is if this motivates a 23- (or 24-) team superleague. You know the drill: 4 divisions of Ivy, ECAC, HE1, and HE2; home-and-home intradivision, one game interdivision = 27 league games (for the Ivies and other participants in 6-team divisions) or 26 league games (for the 5-team division); 16-team megaplayoff; and Boston tournament. Long live the ECAC+!

But that's not going to happen. So when RPI leaps, I'll be pissed. "Screw BU, RPI too!"

Scersk '97
This. And this^3.

When Jeff Jackson croaks, Notre Dame will become the unwanted country cousin of Hockey East.

The only way I end up happy is if this motivates a 23- (or 24-) team superleague. You know the drill: 4 divisions of Ivy, ECAC, HE1, and HE2; home-and-home intradivision, one game interdivision = 27 league games (for the Ivies and other participants in 6-team divisions) or 26 league games (for the 5-team division); 16-team megaplayoff; and Boston tournament. Long live the ECAC+!

But that's not going to happen. So when RPI leaps, I'll be pissed. "Screw BU, RPI too!"

Thanks.

BTW, Ken Schott has posted again that there are rumblings that Cornell interested in the HE [www.dailygazette.com].

ursusminor
BTW, Ken Schott has posted again that there are rumblings that Cornell interested in the HE [www.dailygazette.com].

Only way that happens is with my ridiculous Superleague or some other crazy idea, because 22 + 10 = 32 > 29.

This is not the way I wanted us to pick up RIT. I had always hoped that would come by excommunicating Quinnipiac or Union.

ursusminor
BTW, Ken Schott has posted again that there are rumblings that Cornell interested in the HE [www.dailygazette.com].

He said, exactly, "And there is speculation that Cornell is interested." By speculating it himself, he is reporting the truth.

An interesting thought though. We would clearly have to give up Ivy League Hockey with its schedule/practice restrictions and I don't see how we could play all the HE teams and the IVYs twice in a season. On the other hand we would have stronger competitors in BU, BC, UNH. If you value a national championship above all else (even beating Sucks) this would be a logical move.

From USCHO

Bowling Green has accepted the WCHA’s offer of membership for the 2013–14 season, the school announced Tuesday.

The school was one of five from the CCHA given an invitation in August to join the WCHA, which is set to lose eight of its current 12 teams when conferences realign in the 2013 offseason. Alaska, Ferris State and Lake Superior State also accepted; Western Michigan instead is joining the National Collegiate Hockey Conference.

Read more: [www.uscho.com]

And USCHO

Notre Dame has scheduled a news conference for Wednesday, at which it will announce it will join Hockey East, sources have said.

The Fighting Irish were considering Hockey East and the National Collegiate Hockey Conference for the 2013–14 season, but the NCHC issued a news release Sunday, saying it would start with the eight teams that had already committed.

Read more: [www.uscho.com]

Towerroad
An interesting thought though. We would clearly have to give up Ivy League Hockey with its schedule/practice restrictions and I don't see how we could play all the HE teams and the IVYs twice in a season. On the other hand we would have stronger competitors in BU, BC, UNH. If you value a national championship above all else (even beating Sucks) this would be a logical move.

Since we aren't going anywhere, I propose we petition to join the NCHC. One or two trips to Minnesota and our fans will hate them just as much as Harvard.

Towerroad
An interesting thought though. We would clearly have to give up Ivy League Hockey with its schedule/practice restrictions and I don't see how we could play all the HE teams and the IVYs twice in a season. On the other hand we would have stronger competitors in BU, BC, UNH. If you value a national championship above all else (even beating Sucks) this would be a logical move.

After a decade or two we could arrange to play Sucks at MSG over Thanksgiving weekend in alternate years and draw a big crowd.

David Harding

Towerroad
An interesting thought though. We would clearly have to give up Ivy League Hockey with its schedule/practice restrictions and I don't see how we could play all the HE teams and the IVYs twice in a season. On the other hand we would have stronger competitors in BU, BC, UNH. If you value a national championship above all else (even beating Sucks) this would be a logical move.

After a decade or two we could arrange to play Sucks at MSG over Thanksgiving weekend in alternate years and draw a big crowd.

Play it in Estero. More Harvard alumni nearby.

Maybe it is only the SUNY-Ithaca part of Cornell that will be going to HEA. The rest will remain in the ECAC.

RichH
This is pretty much pissing me off. Can someone explain to me how a school with such a poor historical hockey record can manage to hold the sport hostage? Or why the powers-that-be in college hockey are allowing themselves to be held hostage by such a weak program? Am I the only person to see this as a tail-wagging-the-dog situation? A tiny, insignificant tail.

Notre Dame has a total of 15 winning seasons in the modern era. 15 out of 42 seasons at the D-1 level. Four of them came in the last 5 years. As recently as 2005, they posted a stellar 5-27-6 season, and they have 5 total NCAA tournament appearances to their name. A program with so much support, they were dropped to a club sport in the 1980s.

Why do they get to call the shots here? Because of a football team that hasn't been relevant since Lou Holtz stepped down?

I get the BTHC move. I'm not happy about it, but I get it. That forced the remaining Western schools to make the moves that subsequently happened. And now just when the dust has cleared and we have a solution that works, with two leagues that would be fine with their membership, Notre Dame...again...NOTRE DAME decides that they might want to blast a hole into the Eastern landscape as well? I'm sorry, who are you again? Where did this "Notre Dame is deciding its next conference" crap come from? Why aren't we asking UAH what conference THEY would like to join first?

I'm sure schools like Merrimack, Lowell, Northeastern are going to love the additional budget they have to cover for travel out to freaking Chicagoland. SAY NO, HOCKEY EAST. JUST SAY NO TO THEM. They belong with the new WCHA, but if the NCHC will take them, just ducky. Or stay independent like your coach-blaming shell of a football program. Stay out of the East.

Ah, the more I think about it, the angrier I get...Go to hell, Notre Dame.

This is silly. Do you know why four of the winning seasons came in the last five years? I don't either but I'm going to take a wild-ass guess: the school decided to commit the resources to compete in hockey. If Notre Dame wants to spend Notre Dame money to compete at the highest level, they can. The money the football team gets selling leprechaun keychains is enough to make Notre Dame hockey competitive. To say that Notre Dame hasn't been "relevant" in football for years is to fail to see the forest for the trees. Notre Dame hasn't been a winning football team in years but they have never stopped being relevant. They are on TV almost every week. Any bowl would love to have them because even when they suck they are one of the biggest draws in the country. Notre Dame is a name that people with money and power like to hear attached to a sport and a conference. The way the world works, as I am sure you know, is that people with money and power are more important than people who appreciate the history of a hockey and even enjoy the game of hockey, even to the people who are responsible for hockey.

Notre Dame gets to wag the dog because they are a college sports titan who happens to play hockey and hockey is a sport that the titans usually ignore.

CHN on ND moving to HE. Looks like NCHC didn't want to accept them with their own TV deal. Good for them. Bad on HE's part.

And now, Adam's take on ND and HE.

ugarte
This is silly.

Wait. The rambling, emotional rantings of a solitary, opinionated fan on an internet message board is silly? Alert CHN.

Do you know why four of the winning seasons came in the last five years? I don't either but I'm going to take a wild-ass guess: the school decided to commit the resources to compete in hockey.

And I'll take another wild-ass guess. Jeff Jackson. You know, the guy who took all the resources of the massive athletics budget of Lake Superior State University, and mined all that cash for not one, but THREE National Championships, and had them consistently in the top-10 for a decade. They made the tournament 9 straight years. And once he left, LSSU has not returned to the NCAA tournament. Personally, I think the coaching and recruitment contacts that coaching staff brings with it has more to do with the sudden rise of a dead-in-the-water program than any other factor. In this level of this sport, you can't spend your way from a 5-win season to National Runner-Up in 3 years. It's coaching.

Take Ohio State. Horrible, laughable hockey program for decades. They moved to an 18,000 seat state-of-the-art arena about the same time. They made the Frozen Four and had a run of several tournament appearances. "Finally, OSU is supporting their hockey program financially," was the talk. "They'll finally bring the blood-feud to the ice and challenge Michigan's dominance!" How about now? 5 of 6 losing seasons for Ohio State. Oh well, that building was really for basketball anyway.

Notre Dame would tank again if Jackson were to walk.

Notre Dame hasn't been a winning football team in years but they have never stopped being relevant.

I hold my position that they haven't been relevant on the field in well over a decade. They haven't been relevant in the polls, they haven't been relevant in any computer rankings, and nobody thinks that the road to a National Championship runs through South Bend.

The way the world works, as I am sure you know, is that people with money and power are more important than people who appreciate the history of a hockey and even enjoy the game of hockey, even to the people who are responsible for hockey.

You're absolutely right, but that doesn't take away my right to be angry about that very fact and rant about it in silly internet posts. OCCUPY USCHO!!

Notre Dame gets to wag the dog because they are a college sports titan.

In what? Women's Soccer, Men's Fencing,and Undeserved Marketing.

The NBC hockey deal is nothing more than Notre Dame waving a freebie in NBC's face (attractive since NBC has the NHL contract), to quiet the grumblings that NBC got an exclusive football contract with a terrible product.

Jim Hyla
CHN on ND moving to HE. Looks like NCHC didn't want to accept them with their own TV deal. Good for them. Bad on HE's part.

After all the eye-rolling, I give the NCHC a point for having enough sack to shoot down their demands.

And I'm no longer referring to our offshoot as "Hockey Least." It's now "Conference Notre Dame" for me.

Been nice knowing you, RPI. Sad to see such a valued conference member go. I wish it were Quinnipiac. This is going to be harder to accept than it was to accept the UVM move. I hope the RPI-Clarkson games/broadcast parties continue, even if it will be a watered-down NC situation.

I hope Shagwell has RIT on speed-dial.

ECAC: We've still got 3 National banners. *gulp*

RichH

Jim Hyla
CHN on ND moving to HE. Looks like NCHC didn't want to accept them with their own TV deal. Good for them. Bad on HE's part.

After all the eye-rolling, I give the NCHC a point for having enough sack to shoot down their demands.

And I'm no longer referring to our offshoot as "Hockey Least." It's now "Conference Notre Dame" for me.

Been nice knowing you, RPI. Sad to see such a valued conference member go. I wish it were Quinnipiac. This is going to be harder to accept than it was to accept the UVM move. I hope the RPI-Clarkson games/broadcast parties continue, even if it will be a watered-down NC situation.

I hope Shagwell has RIT on speed-dial.

ECAC: We've still got 3 National banners. *gulp*

I actually "like" Adam's second article better. It seems to be a lot more reasonable than all the other "Who else is there?" talk. Maybe everyone is putting too much into HE saying they'd rather be an even number. We might get some idea from the tone of Coach Appert's talk on "SlapSchott's". Info in the CU TV thread.

Jim Hyla
I actually "like" Adam's second article better.

This.
Though his assertion that Holy Cross fits the HE profile better than Quinnipiac is arguable. HE has dueling profiles: middle-of-the-road New England schools and academically serious Catholic schools. QU and HC represent each, respectively. Who's a better fit depends on which value they want to stress.

RPI doesn't fit either profile, but they're a lot better at hockey than either.

Boston Globe on the move, with this quote:

The Hockey East commitment to playing a smaller conference schedule

For CU, that maybe the most significant piece. Now if we can only get the Ivys to allow more games.

Jim Hyla

RichH

Jim Hyla
CHN on ND moving to HE. Looks like NCHC didn't want to accept them with their own TV deal. Good for them. Bad on HE's part.

After all the eye-rolling, I give the NCHC a point for having enough sack to shoot down their demands.

And I'm no longer referring to our offshoot as "Hockey Least." It's now "Conference Notre Dame" for me.

Been nice knowing you, RPI. Sad to see such a valued conference member go. I wish it were Quinnipiac. This is going to be harder to accept than it was to accept the UVM move. I hope the RPI-Clarkson games/broadcast parties continue, even if it will be a watered-down NC situation.

I hope Shagwell has RIT on speed-dial.

ECAC: We've still got 3 National banners. *gulp*

I actually "like" Adam's second article better. It seems to be a lot more reasonable than all the other "Who else is there?" talk. Maybe everyone is putting too much into HE saying they'd rather be an even number. We might get some idea from the tone of Coach Appert's talk on "SlapSchott's". Info in the CU TV thread.

If listening on a phone one must use iheartradio app to listen. WOFX Fox Sports 980 is a Clear Channel station.

Jim Hyla
And now, Adam's take on ND and HE.

Sad to read Syracuse's position. I'd love for them to join the party.

Paul Kelly was interviewed during tonight's North Dakota - BC game and said he expected Hockey East to add one more (nothing new there), in addition to Notre Dame. He said he thought the ECAC and Atlantic Hockey would remain relatively unchanged (nothing shocking there). He teased that he believes a couple of new programs will begin in the next few years, one of which will be Navy.

USCHO had articles in late September about two candidates.
Buffalo: [www.uscho.com]
Moorhead State: [www.uscho.com]

From Adam's article:
But opinions are mixed within Hockey East — i.e. the athletic directors who make the decisions — about whether they want RPI. The school is Division III in all other sports,

I don't understand why this matters. Does anyone else?

doesn't fit as well geographically (the Notre Dame move notwithstanding),

Notwithstanding??? What??? Is South Bend That much better than Troy? Well, maybe it is, but at least Troy is just a bus trip.

TimV

From Adam's article:
But opinions are mixed within Hockey East — i.e. the athletic directors who make the decisions — about whether they want RPI. The school is Division III in all other sports,

I don't understand why this matters. Does anyone else?

It will be a problem for Hockey East Basketball?

TimV

From Adam's article:
But opinions are mixed within Hockey East — i.e. the athletic directors who make the decisions — about whether they want RPI. The school is Division III in all other sports,

I don't understand why this matters. Does anyone else?

It's hard to really understand corruption unless you are totally corrupt.

And, with Bowling Green departing to the WCHA and Notre Dame to Hockey (L)east(!), the CCHA has ceased to exist. It is defunct. It is an ex-conference.



What strikes me like a dead parrot against a shop counter is that Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are now very fragmented. Whereas a recruit from, say, Birmingham, Michigan could once, if unable to secure a position in Ann Arbor, head off to, say, Northern Michigan with the expectation of being in the greater Detroit area rather frequently, he can no longer do so. One hopes we can make greater inroads into the midwest recruiting scene.

Scersk '97
And, with Bowling Green departing to the WCHA and Notre Dame to Hockey (L)east(!), the CCHA has ceased to exist. It is defunct. It is an ex-conference.

What strikes me like a dead parrot against a shop counter is that Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are now very fragmented. Whereas a recruit from, say, Birmingham, Michigan could once, if unable to secure a position in Ann Arbor, head off to, say, Northern Michigan with the expectation of being in the greater Detroit area rather frequently, he can no longer do so. One hopes we can make greater inroads into the midwest recruiting scene.

Yes, but at least the Yoo-Pee has established itself as the epicenter of the WZHA, and those rivalries are in tact. Who would've thought the hated WCHA would be reduced to the Yoopers, Alaskas, and minor State schools? What happens to the obscenely large and overrated McNaughton Cup?

RichH
WCHA would be reduced to the Yoopers, Alaskas, and minor State schools?

Man, it does look so marginal.

I do suspect, though, that we are about to witness the resurgence of Michigan Tech, which is kind of cool. Their fans must be wetting themselves with glee at being newly "central" to anything.

RichH

Scersk '97
And, with Bowling Green departing to the WCHA and Notre Dame to Hockey (L)east(!), the CCHA has ceased to exist. It is defunct. It is an ex-conference.

What strikes me like a dead parrot against a shop counter is that Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota are now very fragmented. Whereas a recruit from, say, Birmingham, Michigan could once, if unable to secure a position in Ann Arbor, head off to, say, Northern Michigan with the expectation of being in the greater Detroit area rather frequently, he can no longer do so. One hopes we can make greater inroads into the midwest recruiting scene.

Yes, but at least the Yoo-Pee has established itself as the epicenter of the WZHA, and those rivalries are in tact. Who would've thought the hated WCHA would be reduced to the Yoopers, Alaskas, and minor State schools? What happens to the obscenely large and overrated McNaughton Cup?

AFAIC, all they done is changed names. The NCAC is the WCHA and the WCHA is the CCHA.

Marketing.

Jeff Hopkins '82
AFAIC, all they done is changed names. The NCAC is the WCHA and the WCHA is the CCHA.

Marketing.

The NCHC is the WCHA and the Big Ten is the CCHA. The WCHA is the CCHA without Michigan, Michigan State, Miami and Notre Dame, which means it's Atlantic Great Lakes Hockey.

We're still the #4 conference. Now it goes:

1. NCHC
2. Big Ten
3. HE
4. ECAC
5. WCHA
6. AH

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82
AFAIC, all they done is changed names. The NCAC is the WCHA and the WCHA is the CCHA.

Marketing.

The NCHC is the WCHA and the Big Ten is the CCHA. The WCHA is the CCHA without Michigan, Michigan State, Miami and Notre Dame, which means it's Atlantic Great Lakes Hockey.

We're still the #4 conference. Now it goes:

1. NCHC
2. Big Ten
3. HE
4. ECAC
5. WCHA
6. AH

So you're saying the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82
AFAIC, all they done is changed names. The NCAC is the WCHA and the WCHA is the CCHA.

Marketing.

The NCHC is the WCHA and the Big Ten is the CCHA. The WCHA is the CCHA without Michigan, Michigan State, Miami and Notre Dame, which means it's Atlantic Great Lakes Hockey.

We're still the #4 conference. Now it goes:

1. NCHC
2. Big Ten
3. HE
4. ECAC
5. WCHA
6. AH

Too high for Big Ten, at least as it is now performing. HE with 3 of top 10 teams and Nos. 1 and 2, is at least second, maybe first. But with NCHC 4 out of top 7, they probably are still first. Definitely not the current Big Ten, Minny, Wisc, and MSU not yet up to par.

Jim Hyla

Trotsky

Jeff Hopkins '82
AFAIC, all they done is changed names. The NCAC is the WCHA and the WCHA is the CCHA.

Marketing.

The NCHC is the WCHA and the Big Ten is the CCHA. The WCHA is the CCHA without Michigan, Michigan State, Miami and Notre Dame, which means it's Atlantic Great Lakes Hockey.

We're still the #4 conference. Now it goes:

1. NCHC
2. Big Ten
3. HE
4. ECAC
5. WCHA
6. AH

Too high for Big Ten, at least as it is now performing. HE with 3 of top 10 teams and Nos. 1 and 2, is at least second, maybe first. But with NCHC 4 out of top 7, they probably are still first. Definitely not the current Big Ten, Minny, Wisc, and MSU not yet up to par.

And it's probably safe to assume that PSU isn't going to be great when they get to D1. Which leaves OSU and Michigan performing at a high level.