"Fighting Sioux" nickname may [not] [may too] stick at N Dakota

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.

Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."

Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

Wow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?

Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

Jim Hyla
Wow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't.

Natch. I got taunted plenty in middle school. I survived. And in those cases it was truly mean-spirited, whereas in the case of an entire rink chanting something rude it's unlikely most of the people involved really feel all that strongly about the link between the target of the taunt and smallpox blankets or blow jobs or whatever: they're chanting along with everyone else because it's a chance to feel naughty without being called out on it, and because it's *fun*. The best thing for the target to do is to laugh it off. I suspect most of the opposing players do.

I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?...Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

What, you mean like the boyfriend chant? Or the remote control goalie chant? Or the "Sieve!" chant? Or the "toothpaste!/bald!/ugly!/New Jersey!safety school!" chant?

Face it: Cornell fans base at least half our cheering on taunting the other team. That's a large part of why it's fun. I think I might die of boredom if the only thing we had was "Let's Go Red!"

Josh '99

css228
The latest incident since the resumption of the nickname

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.

It's lowbrow and fairly uninspired. If it bothers anyone in the rink it makes me sick.I think getting rid of Sioux is not necessary but threads like this could change my mind.

Kyle Rose

Jim Hyla
Wow, Kyle, I almost felt like I was going to agree with your post. Then you had to go and blow it.You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't.

Natch. I got taunted plenty in middle school. I survived. And in those cases it was truly mean-spirited, whereas in the case of an entire rink chanting something rude it's unlikely most of the people involved really feel all that strongly about the link between the target of the taunt and smallpox blankets or blow jobs or whatever: they're chanting along with everyone else because it's a chance to feel naughty without being called out on it, and because it's *fun*. The best thing for the target to do is to laugh it off. I suspect most of the opposing players do.

I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?...Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

What, you mean like the boyfriend chant? Or the remote control goalie chant? Or the "Sieve!" chant? Or the "toothpaste!/bald!/ugly!/New Jersey!safety school!" chant?

Face it: Cornell fans base at least half our cheering on taunting the other team. That's a large part of why it's fun. I think I might die of boredom if the only thing we had was "Let's Go Red!"

I probably went in the wrong direction when I said taunting. I was really talking about racist or vulgar chants/ taunts. We've all gone through middle school, or junior high in my days. So we've experienced some of it, but that's not the same as being racist. I don't consider your above taunts out of line, but rather what Coach Schafer was concerned about. It's that type of "cheer" that my above mentioned schools haven't gotten above.

Jim Hyla

Josh '99

css228
The latest incident since the resumption of the nickname

Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist. Chanting "smallpox blankets" at a bunch of white guys from Minnesota and Western Canada who play for a team with a native american nickname is not.

The Sioux tribe that supported the UND mascot name might disagree with you.

Yeah, I've sort of had second thoughts on this since typing my initial comment this morning. In a vacuum I still don't think it's racist, and is even kinda funny (albeit in a lowbrow way, as Marty points out), though in the interest of full disclosure I should note that I think Duluth has a great group of fans (one of the best in the non-Lynah division) and so I'm perhaps predisposed to give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't intend any offense toward actual Sioux.

That being said, hockey games are of course not played in a vacuum, and you have to reasonably assume that there will be native americans who will hear about this, and that their reaction will be something along the lines of "hey assholes - still not funny."

But then, taking it a step further, if you're the UND athletic department, don't you have to know that there's a reasonable possibility that this is going to happen if you stick with the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, and conclude that maybe you have some sort of responsibility to prevent it? (This isn't blaming the victim, because UND isn't the victim.)

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

KeithK

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

Without answering the "is it racist" question, a group can get in trouble for it...

[news.stanford.edu]

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.

Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."

Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?

I agree.

Most of my ancestors were English, but I don't hate the French for wanting to wipe them off the map 200 years ago. (I mean, not when there are so many REAL reasons to hate the French). Just because A's ancestors did nasty things to B's ancestors doesn't mean that a joke about it means anything in the current world.

KeithK

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

[en.wikipedia.org]

jtwcornell91

KeithK

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.

Jim Hyla
You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?

The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the opposite of racist. I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.

Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

Because, "Hey Clarkson! DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.

Trotsky

jtwcornell91

KeithK

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

If we were playing Notre Dame, would it be racist to chant "Potato Famine"?

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quoting FA and SPL responses to antagonistic chanting is probably not the best bet, since if they could they'd put a chip in each fan's head upon entrance to the terrace.

If they were in charge at Lynah, the students would be forced to sit down. They and the ECB are not interested in fans, just money. Fortunately (and unfortunately), they're somewhat incompetent.

Trotsky

Jim Hyla
You might feel differently if you were the one being taunted. Or, from reading your posts, maybe you wouldn't. I just don't see why it's necessary to use racist comments, cheers, taunts,... There are so many ways to cheer and have fun. Why do some feel it's necessary to put someone else down by the use of racist, or for that matter vulgar, comments?

The point here is that the particular cheer is exactly the opposite of racist. I recommend a season of Chapelle Show to demonstrate the difference.

Having watched, and listened, to Colgate, Clarkson, RPI, and Union fans (SLU doesn't have fans that cheer anything) in their own rink, I'd take our cheers over their junk anytime.

Because, "Hey Clarkson! DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!" is not taunting.

If you read my follow up post, I said taunting was not what I was talking about, but racist or vulgar cheers. And I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist. And thanks for pointing out how I need to understand the difference, I needed that.

Jim Hyla
And I still feel cheering "smallpox blankets", to a group who feel they are representing the Sioux, is racist.

I hereby declare you racist for mixing up the Sioux and the Ottawa. They aren't all the same, you know...

Trotsky

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"

No, they're thinking, "let's use such a ridiculously stupid and objectionable referent that it's obvious we're not being racist," which is actually a way of making fun of real racists. Parody is turning stupidity against itself.

Q. "How many feminists does is take to screw in a lightbulb?"
A. "That's not funny."

Objecting to parody for being insensitive is kind of... underscoring the whole point of the parody?

If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

Josh '99
If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

I will throw in the obligatory "THIS."

Beeeej

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
If you think the UMD fans were parodying racism by chanting that, I think you're WAAAAY overthinking it. It seems far more likely that they were thinking "this would be a funny cheer," end of.

+1 isn't sufficient: I must add a resounding QFT.

I will throw in the obligatory "THIS."

You go, girl!

Four syllables yelled at the top of your lungs in a crowded arena lacks subtlety and nuance ("you see, it's irony, because it's white players wearing jerseys with an Indian logo, not Native Americans wearing the jerseys". And if there's anyone who'd fail to see irony or reverse humor, it would be the student or faculty advisory board sitting in judgment of the alleged miscreants. And it's only a game.

NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

[www.google.com]

Weder
NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

[www.google.com]

The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.

Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

Jeff Hopkins '82

Weder
NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.

[www.google.com]

The second A in NCAA apparently stands for Assholes.

Maybe the Sioux minority doesn't think so.

Weder
NCAA says it will make North Dakota forfeit any postseason games in which the nickname or logo is used by the team, band or cheerleaders. This, and the inability to host a postseason game, could be a very big deal for the women's hockey team.
[www.google.com]

The NCAA setting standards for what is good, moral, and decent. Priceless.

Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

Trotsky
Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

KeithK

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

CUontheslopes

KeithK
Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

I don't even remotely want a national title by forfeit. Can you imagine the ranting and raving that would spew forth from fans of dozens of other schools during the umpteen years that would pass before we won another one legitimately?

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

Gee, if I was sending out such an "official letter" I would proofread it a couple of times and make sure I got the names of the principal parties written and spelled correctly. I would like to see Keith's scenario played out (but not at Cornell's expense).

I'm torn. On one hand, I don't really think the logo/team name is that bad. There's some ambiguity to exactly who "Sioux" refers to and all, but it could be worse.

On the other hand, enough bad things can't happen to Ralph Englestad's legacy.

KeithK

Trotsky
Well, on the one hand, it's stupid.

But on the other hand, next time don't steal a continent.

Perhaps we should give Northern Europe back to the Celts too?

You have a lot of Gaul making such a comment.

On a more serious note, there are a fair number of folks here who think that if ND cannot get some sort of agreement with the Sioux tribes (yes, I know they have an agreement with one) then it is reasonable for them to stop using the name and logo. This action has little to do with the NCAA itself. They are just the "stick". Obviously, there are differing opinions in this forum. To help enlighten those who differ with me I am looking for George Carlin's routine about what sports teams might be named if the Indians had won. No luck yet with Google and YouTube videos. Any pointers?

KeithK

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Well, there was the article quoted somewhere upthread where a tribal historian noted that the actual origin of the word "Sioux" was as a disparaging nickname for the [whatever it was that the tribe was originally called]. Didn't the article say it means "snake in the grass" or something like that? It's there but I don't have time to hunt for it right now. In any case, based on the fact that the term actually originated to disparage the native Americans so labeled, one could reasonably argue that its continued use is "hostile and abusive". Like if Union's team was called the "Skating Sexual Deviants" or something like that. (Though we all know that's actually BU.)

That being said, do I really think that's the basis of the NCAA's claim? Doubtful.

CUontheslopes

KeithK

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

Recompense for forforeiting that 1940s Fifth Down game to the Dartmouth, uh, what was their nickname?

I was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this.

APPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.

Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.

According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.

Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.

According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.

He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.

Jim Hyla
I was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this.

APPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.

Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.

According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.

Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.

According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.

He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.

Joel Bruss just called. From outside the Palms.

Jim Hyla
I was searching the Grand Forks Herald and came up with this.

APPLE VALLEY, Minn. — A Twin Cities man who allegedly drove a Zamboni at a peewee hockey game while drunk is now charged with DWI.

Thirty-four-year-old Joel Bruss of Apple Valley was charged this week with four counts of driving while impaired.

According to the complaint, Bruss had a blood-alcohol content of 0.32 percent — four times the legal limit for driving in Minnesota.

Parents at an Apple Valley ice arena called police on Jan. 30 to report that Bruss was driving the ice-resurfacing machine erratically.

According to the complaint, when police arrived at Hayes Ice Arena, Bruss had gotten the Zamboni stuck half-on and half-off the ice.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports Bruss has been suspended from his part-time job.

He did not immediately return a phone call for comment Thursday.

There is video with awesome commentary. You have to watch a 15 second commercial but it's worth it.

CUontheslopes

KeithK

Jim Hyla
Here's the NCAA letter to UND spelling out it's punishment.

I love the reference to hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references". There's no way that the Sioux name and logo can be reasonably construed as "hostile or abusive". At least in a world where Florida State's logo is acceptable.

Here's what I would dearly lvoe to see: NoDak makes it the hockey tournament and advances to the finals. They then skate out in their full logo gear. The NC$$ is faced with the choice of letting them play or cancelling a nationally televised event with at least medium profile.

Couldn't agree more. I'd love to see it happen, so long as Cornell's the opponent. I'd have no problem taking a national title by forfeit though haha. I'll wait for the NCAA to go after Union for being the Dutchmen next!

This should happen but not if Cornell is involved. I'd love the NCAA to get shown up like that, but dont want too win an NCAA title like that

Video tracking of the Zamboni, especially going offscreen as Zamboni breaks away toward the left end of the rink, bears homage to great Redcasts of the past.

Urban Outfitter's Irish line of merchandise

Reminded me of this thread but regarding Notre Dame. Fighting Irish - okay. Drunken Irish - not okay

North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname

jtn27
North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname

Maybe they can change the name to "Fighting (the) Sioux."

jtn27
North Dakota citizens vote to let the school drop the nickname

The vote was 2-1; that's conclusive. The AP reported that one of the state's two tribes lobbied to retain the Sioux nickname: "Some American Indians from the state's two namesake tribes lobbied for the name and logo to be kept, arguing that they reflected a positive image for their tribes. Eunice Davidson, an enrolled member of the Spirit Lake tribe and member of the committee to save the nickname, was too devastated to talk about the result, her husband Dave Davidson said."

I could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)

This is no Harvard S*cks thread, but still, it had more legs than I suspected when it launched in 2009.

billhoward
I could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)

Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.

Josh '99

billhoward
I could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)

Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.

As did Dov Grumet-Morris' sister Aviva, I think.

Also: [online.wsj.com]

Weder

Josh '99

billhoward
I could see this revisited in a decade where the Indians charge the NCAA with eliminating their heritage and the NCAA orders the name changed to North Dakota Sacred Sioux from the North Dakota Bakken Oil Energy Independents. (If Princeton can fit Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer and Grant Goeckner-Zoeller on jerseys, this will, too.)

Sharam Fouladgar-Mercer wore his first name on his jersey.

As did Dov Grumet-Morris' sister Aviva, I think. Also: [online.wsj.com]

A snippy feedback comment to the little WSJ blurb (above) about long names for European soccer players: "Expected from self important little people. Hard working Greeks emigrate, leaving the slugs. Great name for one of their players: ep??µ???? ???????"

(Drifting Not a good day for the WSJ in other ways: WSJ reporter resigns for sleeping with her State Department source (the infraction wasn't that, but not telling her bosses about it) and Journal blogger columnist Clint Boulton who claimed the new Macbook Pro was a threat to corporate networks becasue the higher resolution of the Retina display would "increase consumption" on corporate networks. After 800+ "WTF" feedback posts, the Journal retracted the story. [blogs.wsj.com]

billhoward
Drifting

Ya think?

Beeeej

billhoward
Drifting

Ya think?

It took some effort not to mention that the same statewide vote that said it was okay to lay down the the Fighting Sioux jerseys also rejected an ambitious proposal to do away with state property taxes. One of the nice things about eLynah unlike Facebook the last couple months is that Facebook has become a sewer of anti-Obama, anti-Romney, anti-Wisconisn-governor posts. Less often thoughtful, self-created comments, more often forwarded memes / images that take up a lot of screen real estate. If you want to see people mindlessly doing the political and religous bidding of others and harrassing others, that's what the San Francisco airport has been for.

billhoward

Beeeej

billhoward
Drifting

Ya think?

It took some effort not to mention that the same statewide vote that said it was okay to lay down the the Fighting Sioux jerseys also rejected an ambitious proposal to do away with state property taxes. One of the nice things about eLynah unlike Facebook the last couple months is that Facebook has become a sewer of anti-Obama, anti-Romney, anti-Wisconisn-governor posts. Less often thoughtful, self-created comments, more often forwarded memes / images that take up a lot of screen real estate. If you want to see people mindlessly doing the political and religous bidding of others and harrassing others, that's what the San Francisco airport has been for.

One of the nice things about eLynah for me has been that the hockey forum is usually about hockey.

If this was on purpose, I will gain newfound respect for the NCAA's trolling skills.

Not all of the Fighting Sioux will be gone.

Kyle Rose

Josh '99
Chanting "smallpox blankets" at actual native americans is racist.

Drawing attention to race or a distinguishable property of a race as a means of mocking someone feels like racism to me, especially since the people chanting it are not thinking, "Let's make fun of those European descendants who murdered Native Americans with smallpox blankets!"
That said, I have a hard time caring if it's merely taunting: it's not like these people are being harassed by the police for driving while Native American. People need to lighten up and/or grow a thicker skin.

When Dwayne Wade steps to the line, who will be the first to chant "sickle cell anemia?

Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:

UND now uses the nickname Coyotes.

Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).

jtwcornell91
Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:

UND now uses the nickname Coyotes.

Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).

Seems to be contradicted by other sources:

The legislation adopted in November, affirmed by state voters in Tuesday’s primary election, requires UND to wait until 2015 to adopt a new nickname.

It's not a competent shakedown if you never get the money.

"I don't mind a parasite. I object to a cut-rate one."

jtwcornell91
Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:

UND now uses the nickname Coyotes.

Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).

That's likely a mistake, since we here at U of South Dakota are the Coyotes. Granted, mixing up North and South Dakota is kind of the pastime around here. But hard to imagine that they'd go for the same name as us.

jtwcornell91

jtwcornell91
Via HOCKEY-L, a bizzare postscript to the saga, as some of the members of the relevant tribes who liked the nickname after all tried unsuccessfully to sue the NCAA (and presumably force UND) to get the name reinstated. But the article includes a piece of information which I at least did not have:

UND now uses the nickname Coyotes.

Were there any alternative nicknames that attached themselves, Deertick-style to UND during the Year With No Name? I tended to think of them as the Flickertails (their pre-Sioux nickname).

Seems to be contradicted by other sources:

The legislation adopted in November, affirmed by state voters in Tuesday’s primary election, requires UND to wait until 2015 to adopt a new nickname.

From that source

UND also must protect its copyright on the logo designed by North Dakota artist Ben Brien, a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa Indians. Protection of the copyright is required by the 2007 settlement with the NCAA.

“You want to protect the integrity of your historical branding,” Johnson said. “That would keep anyone from using it in ways we’d prefer it not be used.”

Fear of wood screws?

UND releases potential nickname suggestions

And soliciting input from the public went about as well as one could expect.

UND released Monday night 214 pages of nickname suggestions and their accompanying commentary submitted by the public.

The submissions to be considered can be viewed at HERE and will be vetted by the university’s Nickname Committee, which will use a point system to score attributes and functionality. UND also released a list of names that will not be considered. That list can be viewed here. Warning: Several of the suggestions contain obscenities, racist terms or are otherwise offensive.

...

On the list of rejected names, the suggestion of “Fighting Sioux” proved a popular submission, with entries starting on page 32 and ends on page 160.

My vote goes to Abdominal Snowmen.

Dafatone
My vote goes to Abdominal Snowmen.

Yeti, another rejected suggestion.

A no-win situation. Whatever they pick, half the people will be unhappy.

But the fact that they must have been required to release the list of submissions is a win-win for the rest of us. Some of them are hilarious. And even the childish obscene ones are worth a laugh or two.

KeithK
But the fact that they must have been required to release the list of submissions is a win-win for the rest of us. Some of them are hilarious. And even the childish obscene ones are worth a laugh or two.

This is true. I roared at some of them.

"Fighting Sioux" nickname may [not] [may too] stick at N Dakota, but their coach won't be there to find out.

Good. I hate UND and I hate the Flyers, so this is a natural progression.

And a blogger managed to find a list of all the domain names UND has registered after some initial brush-off attempts. There are a lot of "Warrior" permutations.

[sayanythingblog.com]

RichH
The submissions to be considered can be viewed at HERE

tl;dr:

Cats: I like cats
Data Miners: Miners is obvious. data would make UND the first team with a computer connotation
Dragons of Ice
Epic Prairie Stars: Says our open prairie is like none other.
Ermines: No explanation needed. [I beg to differ]
Fighting Frackers [7 of these!]
Fighting Mongeese [I don't think the plural of mongoose is...]
Flaming Snow: North Dakota is known for its cold environment but in order to describe UND's passion for the game, the word "glowing" was added to "snow". [What?]
Flying Carp: Carp are an important species in the rivers of North Dakota.
Force of the Norse
Furious Flatlanders: North Dakota is horribly flat
Icy Flying Reptiles
Milos: That's my dogs name and he's fierce and passionate.
ProngBucks: a.k.a. Prong Horn, Spring Buck, indigenous to ND, fastest land animal in N. hemisphere, e.g. 55 mph for .5m [layin' down the science]
Sandbaggers: Honoring the historic '97 flood fighters, many of whom were UND students. 'Baggers for short. Unique, appropriate, rallying.
Sandbaggers: The river and it's cool
Snow Ice Devils: I think it's a unique nickname no other school has. It promotes fierceness. Representative to the state's region. Great rallying symbol.
Steamboat Captains: History of Grand Forks - being founded by a Steamboat Captain.
Superb Owls
Turbo: Turbo is fast, fast helps in sports.
White saber tooth tiger: It was a strong and fierce animal. It also fits with the region being cold. With it being white and black it would still match school colors
Zombies: We already have a green, black, and pink color scheme, and zombies are cool.

RichH
And a blogger managed to find a list of all the domain names UND has registered after some initial brush-off attempts. There are a lot of "Warrior" permutations.

[sayanythingblog.com]

So glad to know North Dakota can afford to splurge on hundreds of domains they'll never use.

[247wallst.com]

Of course I'm not stupid, I know their sports fans are footing the bill.

Buried on this page: [www.bostonglobe.com]

Selecting a new nickname for the University of North Dakota has been so fraught with backlash that the school’s president said he'd reconsider another option — none at all. A committee submitted a list of five potential nicknames earlier this week for UND President Robert Kelly to approve for a public vote, but didn’t include the possibility of going forward as ‘‘just North Dakota.’’ The five potential nicknames are Roughriders, North Stars, Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, and Sundogs.

I'm in favor of "just North Dakota."

RichH
I'm in favor of "just North Dakota."

Uncomfortably close to "Oklahoma is Just OK."

RichH
Buried on this page: [www.bostonglobe.com]

Selecting a new nickname for the University of North Dakota has been so fraught with backlash that the school’s president said he'd reconsider another option — none at all. A committee submitted a list of five potential nicknames earlier this week for UND President Robert Kelly to approve for a public vote, but didn’t include the possibility of going forward as ‘‘just North Dakota.’’ The five potential nicknames are Roughriders, North Stars, Fighting Hawks, Nodaks, and Sundogs.

I'm in favor of "just North Dakota."

Agreed. There's no reason they have to have a nickname.

Here's USCHO's take on the issue. Congrads if you can get past the first sentence.

And as I load it again, up pops an ad for a t shirt stating "DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE."

Jim Hyla
Here's USCHO's take on the issue. Congrads if you can get past the first sentence.

And as I load it again, up pops an ad for a t shirt stating "DO NOT READ THE NEXT SENTENCE."

The emotional investment in no nickname there kinda reads like an Onion article.

Sometimes the women's team has a different nickname, like Fighting Wolverines and Supportive Wolverinesses. Here, it could be the Fighting Sues. I'm sure that has been suggested at some point when all suggestions were accepted for discussion.

It's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.

billhoward
It's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.

Yeah, but imagine what eRalph is like.

RichH

billhoward
It's no Harvard Sucks, but the thread has stayed lived for 3-1/2 years and is slowly closing in on 200 comments.

Yeah, but imagine what eRalph is like.

At least there is no derogatory term "eLynahing"

Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!

Jeff Hopkins '82
Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!

Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors."

UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.

RichH

Jeff Hopkins '82
Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!

Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors."

UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.

Cornell fans had a laugh or two with their "Warm up the grill" chant when the Red Hawk used to frequent Houston Field House. Maybe we can take some of the credit for him flying away and hence Puckman getting the job.

Jeff Hopkins '82
Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!

Sioux Hawks forever.

RichH

Jeff Hopkins '82
Oh God. Not another replace the unsatisfactory nickname with some variant on XXXX Hawks! Lehigh Mountain Hawks, Miami Red Hawks...enough with the hawks already!

Let's not forget that most of the RPI teams are officially the RedHawks. Only a few teams kept "Engineers." And I just learned that the 1954 NCAA Champs were nicknamed "Bachelors."

UND could be the Bulldogs and join Yale, UMD and Ferris State in a tournament.

As of 2009-10, RPI thankfully eliminated the Red Hawks as a nickname. As to Bachelors, I would love to see the PC complaints had we kept it.

marty
Cornell fans had a laugh or two with their "Warm up the grill" chant when the Red Hawk used to frequent Houston Field House. Maybe we can take some of the credit for him flying away and hence Puckman getting the job.

A friend who went to Clarkson told me a story on how the RPI fans themselves led them in a chant of "KFC!" when the mascot appeared.

August 2015 update in the Wall Street Journal. [www.wsj.com]

Melissa Korn
University of North Dakota sports teams may soon be known as the Roughriders. Or the Nodaks. Or possibly the Fighting Hawks. One option that won’t be considered: “North Dakota,” unless the school president decides otherwise.

The institution, which retired its Fighting Sioux nickname in 2012 after opposition from American Indian groups and others sparked years of legal battles, had since adopted the state’s name as its unofficial moniker for the sake of sports and school spirit. But a committee assigned to identify a new nickname for the school, which first met in March, voted recently by a margin of 7-4 to eliminate North Dakota as an option. Some argued that the state name didn’t actually count as a nickname. ...

"Roughriders" sounds like people who don't use condoms.

I'd love to see them go with no nickname. It would stand out, and there'd be no better middle finger to the NC$$.

Voting for the new name starts Oct. 19.

They are down to 2.

God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

Dafatone

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

And "Big Red" isn't lame.

Dafatone

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".

jtwcornell91

Dafatone

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".

Too bad they couldn't vote for simply "Fighting".

KeithK

jtwcornell91

Dafatone

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".

Too bad they couldn't vote for simply "Fighting".

Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.

Jeff Hopkins '82
Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.

I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.

KeithK

Jeff Hopkins '82
Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.

I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.

The North Dakota Ham Fighters.

Make it happen, Worst Dakota!

Dafatone

KeithK

Jeff Hopkins '82
Could have always gone with Fighters, like the Nippon Ham baseball team.

I always think of them as the Ham Fighters, as in they're really good at fighting pork.

The North Dakota Ham Fighters.

Make it happen, Worst Dakota!

That would be Wurst Dakota.

In case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.

jtwcornell91

Dafatone

Jeff Hopkins '82
God, not another "XXX Hawks" nickname.

It's lame, unoriginal, AND doesn't really shake native appropriation the way roughriders would.

My guess is that some of the people who voted for that did so because it contains the word "Fighting" and they plan to shout "SIOUX!" over the PA announcer when he/she says "Hawks".

Not only this, but I bet there will be a big push to go back to the appropriated Chicago Blackhawks logo jerseys that they wore in the late 80s.

ursusminor
In case anyone cares, it's the Fighting Hawks.

Feh!