Clarkson Sucks Too

SLU is beating up on Clarkson, 6-2 in the second. Go Saints

What's going on with Clarkson??

Or should I say, what's going on with St. Lawrence??

And, if Clarkson doesn't do well during the regular season, does that mean that they'll kick into gear during post-season play (a la Cornell)?

And Brown beats Mass-Lowell, 2-1.

Six goals for SLU in the 2nd period.

Hrmm. Maybe nothing. So much for no offense. It's now 6-5 SLU.

Go Brown!

I'll admit that I still find it hard to believe but I suspect Brown is far better than anyone wants to give them credit. SCSU and UML fans have both claimed that this is a sign that their teams are falling apart. Rather, I suspect that this Brown squad is like the a certain Cornell squad in fairly recent memory that couldn't score but would keep games close with a stiffling D and occasionally pulling out a surprise win.

SLU(t) holds on and WINS a 1-goal game, 6 - 5!!

Pretty much the reverse of the earlier SLU-Clarkson game in Potsdam. Big lead for the home team whittled away by the visitor, but the home team hangs on.

some things that i thought of 2nite after the results...
cornell's future may be determined by teams within the ecac close to .500 if they do not win placid (knock on wood).

teams close to .500

clarkson (9-10-5)
brown (8-9-2)
bama (11-12-1) two with scsu this weekend
union (10-7-5)
dartmouth (9-8-3)
RPI (9-10-3)
harvard (9-6-3)

those are all the teams within 3 games of .500 that CU has played. so....let us hope that all of these teams end up above .500 except for harvard and dartmouth (since cornell lost to DC hahvahd )

I think we want DC and Harvard over .500 - we just need to beat them the next time out. If Dartmouth and Harvard are below .500, our SOS will be absolutely pathetic. It might even mean only one ECAC team in the NCAA's, and I don't want to stake an NCAA bid on winning the tournament. We can, and probably should, but Clarkson history tells us that having a good team isn't enough to win in LP.

I apologize for not being a traditionalist, Greg. I would rather win the NCAA's than the ECAC's. (Though I would take an ECAC tourney win and an NCAA first round loss over an ECAC loss and an NCAA Frozen Four.)

With the exception of the Beanpot games, all of the remaining games are ECAC games. So my question is, does it make any difference to our SOS who wins any of the remaining ECAC games? If Dartmouth goes 0-9-0 the rest of the way isn't that perfectly balanced by 9 wins and 0 losses for other teams? Isn't the SOS component of RPI linear like that?

Keith,

I think you are right in terms of RPI - losses will balance out wins in the opponents' (and opps' opps') win percentage. However, it does matter who is a TUC and who is not. IF we beat HU and DC next time out, we will have at least a .500 record against all ECAC teams, so we'd like them ALL to end up as TUCs. If we lose to HU/DC, we'd like them to end up below .500 so that our losses to them only hurt us in 2 categories (last 16 and RPI) rather than 3 (last 16, RPI, TUC). Therefore, it will matter who-beats-who, but what we want depends on how we do. I really love the complexity inherent in the PWR formula (yes, I would prefer KPWR!) - it makes it just complicated enough that the players can't possibly worry about all the nuances and possible scenarios - just win, and the numbers will take care of themselves!

Also note that Cornell will have additional games against their playoff opponents. It seems to me that, if Cornell finishes #1, it would be best for Cornell if the #11 and #12 teams lose all their remaining games, giving us the "best" possible #10 record to play against. (By this logic, it would also pay for there to be no upsets throughout the tourny, so Cornell would meet the strongest-record opponent at each stage).

I don't think there's going to be an ECAC at large under any reasonable circumstance, so it's all moot.

I think the only team that has a chance to be an ECAC at large selection is probably Cornell.

If we win every game until the ECAC final, get our ranking well into the top 10, and then lose the final, how could they avoid taking us as an at large team?

If we were to go, for instance, 9-1-0 the rest of the way plus two QF wins and then split two in Placid (either way) I would bet that our PWR would be good enough for an at large bid. Obviously things depend on what other teams do and who ends up a TUC, but it seems likely. Not sure how many we could afford to lose though.

Although I'd love to see it, I think a 9-1 run is an awfully tall order for Cornell to fill. If that's what is necessary to get in w/o winning the conference tourny, I'm not going to hold my breath for an at-large bid. (If only the Everblades tourny went Cornell's way, or am I putting too much value in those games in terms of how they affect our pairwise?)

I don't pretend to understand the mechanics of the RPI and PWR anywhere near as well as other posters to this board, but I'd have to imagine that those two losses in the Everblades Tourney hurt us pretty substantially... Not only because they're two of only five losses on the year up to this point, but also because they're losses to TUCs (as are all of our losses), and were our only games against the CCHA, hurting our commen opponents criteria with a lot of CCHA teams, I'd imagine.

Jason N wrote:

(If only the Everblades tourny went Cornell's way, or am I putting too much value in those games in terms of how they affect our pairwise?)

Well, neither loss will affect our L16 directly as there are 16 regular season games scheduled after the Everblades tourney. Given OSU has 6 games left against Michigan, Michigan State and Alaska-Fairbanks, all of whom are ahead of OSU in the CCHA, coupled with 4 more games against Miami and Ferris State, who are only 2 and 3 pts behind OSU in the standings, I suspect OSU will not finish above .500. As such, the OSU loss should be a wash.

The loss to NMU on the other hand could very well keep us home if we do not win Placid. While we need a few more weeks before we can really speculate, that H2H loss could become critical.

Additionally, it really helps us for Harvard and Brown get hot down the stretch. A sweep of Brown with them as a TUC could help nicely. Likewise, if Harvard can win the the Beanpot, that should help our RPI. Also, a RS split with Harvard and a postseason win, coupled with a Harvard Beanpot, would, I imagine, help our cOP.

I used 9-1-0 as a relative extreme, a record down the stretch which I am pretty sure would do it. 8-2-0 might do it. 7-3-0 might even be good enough, though I haven't checked any numbers.

You're right, 9-1-0 is a tall order (though not impossible - see '96 stretch run). 7-3-0 is a more reasonable expectation.

A good finish by Brown, RPI and Clarkson (all teams we've beaten near near TUC status) would help.

UAH! Don't forget UAH! Assuming they drop their next two, if they can win 5.5 of their final 8 games they finish as a TUC, giving us two additional wins and (at this point) at least one or two more comparisons. It seems like Cornell's worst category is TUC.

So everybody root for the Chargers! Go UAH!

The ECAC title is the sine qua non standard of the season's excellence. The NCAA bid is cream on top.

Request: please change the subject line when you post a reply; it makes threaded view useful. Otherwise it's pretty useless.

Greg, I agree wholeheartedly--assuming you mean winning in Lake Placid.

Greg,
Maybe it's long years of being "programmed" by the old CHDF (sounds funny to say "old", but I don't find the threaded format that appealing/comfortable. I think of each topic as a linear thread with all posts being a contribution to the topic. I'm probably inadvertantly undermining the thread approach by tacking whatever replay I have to the last post appearing in the flat view. (I'll have to try to be conscious of choosing reply for the specific post that I'm replying to and not just the last post under the topic.)

You know, the CHDF did have a threaded view option...

I usually just tack onto flat, myself. I was playing around with the threaded view yesterday, and it does make the forum more flexible. Of course, it probably requires more concentration and planning than I'm usually willing to give.

Oh, and since this hasn't come up on this thread in a while, Clarkson Sucks Too.

Yes, I meant Placid. RS #1 would be fun, but it's not something anybody treasures. Anybody remember Yale '98?

clarkson and harvard both SUCK

I know the RS title is not significant anymore, now that the guaranteed bye for winning both RS and ECAC tournament is gone, but....

Given the fact that Cornell has been one of the more dominant ECAC teams doesn't anybody else have a problem with the fact that we haven't won the RS title in the lifetime of the current student body?

I love winning the tournament. And I love the thrill of getting an NCAA bid. As Neil Shapiro points out, however, I have never had the thrill of seeing Cornell win a regular season title (I've never even seen a basketball title - I was a senior in HS in 1988) - and I am really hoping that this is the year.

I think that an RS title would be good enough to get to the NCAA's (using as "I think" as a very crude proxy for "scientific analysis" and I really want the thrill of a regular season title.

Of course my nightmare is a Cornell RS win and Clarkson taking the tourney. Vic B would (good-naturedly) have a field day with our past derogation of the RS in favor of the tournament.

We have a team this year that just may be good enough to take the whole ball-o-wax, and I want to use the RS to make sure that they are there to take the pressure off of the tournament.

Of course my nightmare is a Cornell RS win and Clarkson taking the tourney. Vic B would (good-naturedly) have a field day with our past derogation of the RS in favor of the tournament.

That would be every Clarkson Fans dream come true . I think this year Cornell has nothing to worry about as far as that scenario coming true. Of coarse the Patriots are in the Super Bowl so anything could happen. My take on the Big Red is that if they go 9-1 0r 8-2 to win the regular season title, as long as they don't pull a Clarkson and lose to the 10th place team in the opening round of the playoffs, they are in the NC$$. And I will be cheering them on .