Cornell vs. Clarkson 3-0 FINAL

And the Big Red return to Lynah!

Ouch....CU going on a 3-5 man disadvantage

Penalties killed off.

Walsh coming up with a bunch of big saves. Cornell draws a penalty. And another penalty!

End of the first period. 0-0.

Thanks for the updates, Chris. I'm working on my dissertation out in Santa Barbara and don't have speakers on my office computer.

Sadly, I am not anywhere near Section B in Ithaca this year either. Although I did go home to Albany last weekend and catch Cornell beat RPI.

anyone else's feed go out during the 1st intermission? damn.

The Clarkson feed is working fine. Don't know about the Cornell one though.

Cornell feed just died. Clarkson feed sucks, but is up at: [icg.clarkson.edu]

Click "Access Stream."

CU going on PP!

The Clarkson announcers can't count... as they were complaining about Cornell having too many men, Clarkson got called for.... too many men on the ice.

5 on 3.

GOAL 1-0 CU

GOAL 1-0 Knoepfli!

SCORE!

Knoepfli's 4th of the year. I didn't get the assists or time. Walsh gets run and there's a fight.

Hynes and Moulson on the assists.

Thanks!

Some of the banners still show 0-0

run = kicked out?

Maine and Lowell tied at 1

PC 2, BC 1

Jon Getty '96 wrote:

I'm working on my dissertation out in Santa Barbara

A fellow graduate Gaucho! What department?

I think the assists were actually Bell and Pegoraro, but they messed up the announcement, according to the CU announcers. We'll see I guess.

Some of the banners still show 0-0

I fixed the first message so that will show the update score.

How do you get the normal formatting of a message that you want to reply to and partially include in yours? Like with John's?

End 2nd period. 1-0 Cornell

Anyone notice that Yahoo has removed their NCAA hockey page? It seems they did a redesign of the site, yet they don't have a page for hockey anymore.

Anyone else have a good site to get out-of-town scores besides thumbing through every post on USCHO?

3rd period about to get under way. Is the Clarkson band at the game?

I did notice but Yahoo was so slow to update scores as to be almost useless.

Does ESPN still have a ticker?

13:34 to go in the game. Still 1-0 Cornell.

Goal! 2-0. Moulson from Wallace and Vesce.

And Charlie Cook just missed a wide open net.

Sounds like Clarkson's getting dirty.

Flashback to last season!

An Iggulden sighting (sounding). I hadn't heard him in the third.

6:10 to go. CU still up 2-0. And Clarkson definitely getting frustrated!

Oh boy, things are gettin' real ugly.

Hornby got tossed... I don't think it's a game DQ though. Just a 10 minute major.

Can you give us a sense of what's going on?

Hornby two-handed a guy. Not what we need for tomorrow.
But it's okay -- NOT a DQ, just a Misc.

A sense: the game started getting chippy. Various altercations by both teams, and Hornby finally lost it and creamed a guy after the whistle. He and a Knight drew 2+10. Hopefully it will all even out.

Sounds like they're tossing Edwards of Clarkson and Hornby.

I don't think he was disqualified. He got sent off because it was a 10 minute major with less than 10 left in the game.

But someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Looks like LiveStats is on vacation this week.

Cook, 3-0!!!!

GOAL 3-0 Cornell!

Cook from Vesce and Murray! 3-0

As Jordan used to tell us in Section A: "We own four-on-four hockey!"

Shutout #5!

Fight going on now... hopefully no DQ's.

Iggulden got a DQ and will miss tomorrow's game.

CNNSI has a decent scoreboard page that refreshes itself every few minutes.

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]

The head ref tonight, Fulton (sp?) was horrible. He missed an insane amout of calls. One play specifically, there was a an obstruction, holding then our guy went to skate away and his stick was held. This guys makes the NFL refs look good. Not to mention that he blew the whistle way to quick when the goalies touched the puck with no one around. I think we had the "let them play" chant going at least three times. I hope he finds a red tag in his locker after the game.

Robb, I agree Fulton had a quick whistle tonight but he was consistent (that's all you can ask for from a ref). As for letting them play. . .we definitely had our fair share of questionable no-calls and then there was the phantom Clarkson goal in the second period ( it WAS over the line & Age has the picture to prove it). IMHO, we have no grounds to complain about the officials.

Ben,

Sure you can ask more. You can ask him to be accurate. So long as it's both way it's not unfair, but it's still not good reffing... he let the game get out of hand.

And I was in E so I couldn't see the phantom Clarkson goal, though I'd be interested to see the picture. However, the light didn't go on either, so the goal judge missed it too, which means that maybe it wasn't entirely unreasonable for Fulton to miss it. At least it wasn't the deciding goal in the end.

-Fred

Fred,

I agree with you on the accuracy point but if he "sucked" then he "sucked" for both teams. The game did get slightly out of hand but that was none of the referee's doing. He made the call he should have and in a couple of cases called matching minors when he probably should have just made a single call. The past three games v. Clarkson @ Lynah have been just like tonight. So to say this game was different b/c the referee was not calling a decent game holds very little water. The fact remains that Clarkson/Cornell games are rough and historically tend to get somewhat out of hand. . .regardless of the referee.

Just my $.02

Standing right on the goal line what I saw was Lenny's glove clearly over the line, but Fulton probably never saw the puck over the line and as a result couldn't call it a goal. Who knows?

Number one star tonight: Dan "Pegs" Pegoraro. He generated at least 3 excellent scoring chances and played great heads up hockey. He has stepped up recently and let's hope it's a sign of good things to come!

Eh, I think he let too much go to have a good shot at keeping it calm. It may've gotten out of hand anyway (based on history it would have ), but I don't think he helped.

On the other point, sucking consistently is better than sucking inconsistently, but it's still sucking .

As for the goal, I repeat, the goal judge didn't catch it either, so it was probably a very hard angle from on the ice. Still sucks for Clarkson - I've been there. At least it wasn't a one goal game.

Although the no-goal did not impact the final score, if IIRC it would have made it a tie game. Goal or not, it definitely sucks for Clarkson. . .we'll take the win and move on to the boys from SLU(t) tomorrow night.

Our Team played hard and well YEAH! Saw some good passing especially in 2nd and 3rd period - but our 1st power play unit were slow getting it together and were not moving the puck as well and as quickly as the second unit. Started a tad slowly in the first period only having maybe 2 good shots on net whole period.

I am glad Greg H. only got a misconduct in the third - given he skated almost to their bench to get Edwards ( I think) - well after the whistle and two other penalties had already been called - and in essence instigated there, he easily could have had a Game DQ - we are lucky - Last I heard Colgate - St L. was 4-4 going into overtime -

Cam Abbot and Dan P. played very well! Ben Wallace had a good game - and both keepers Dave L. and Marsh played really well! I had shots on Goal of 17-8 us in the Second period. while 1st and third period were more even in shots.

The wholoe team hustled and looked good after most of the first period when our feet didn't seem to be moving too well or Clarkson just came out flying ! they have some good hockey players -

I also felt the officials were pretty good and consistent over all -
Looking forward to Saturday night - Let's go RED!

so is mike iggulden officially dq'd for tomorrow night's game against SLU?

Yes, according to Adam and ECAC page. 5 min. major for fighting and GD. Same for CLK but their instigator got 5 for checking from behind and GD. All this at the end of the game. Clk. gets no better under a "new" coach.

from collegehockeystats.com:

CLK-15 Jeff Genovy (5-Checking from Behind) 20:00
CLK-16 Jeff Genovy (10-Game Misconduct) 20:00
CLK-17 Dale Good (5-Fighting) 20:00
CLK-18 Dale Good (10-Game Disqualification) 20:00
COR-12 Mike Iggulden (5-Fighting) 20:00
COR-13 Mike Iggulden (10-Game Disqualification) 20:00

So, Yeah, looks like both teams will loser a player for tomorrow. Your standard Cornell-Clarkson lovefest. Would be interesting to see these two teams in a playoff scenario. We haven't played them in the tourney since my freshman year PIG, and I wasn't enough into it then to remember that game .

Great game to watch tonight, as both teams really gave a lot of effort if nothing else. More physical play than from any other match-up resulted in a lot of chippiness, which has really marked this rivalry. A Clarkson friend of mine remarked that the last 4 CU-CCT contests at Lynah have ended in fights.

Clarkson came out with a pretty good game plan in playing the Red tight to the corners with a lot of checking. There really wasn't much open-ice skating at all. By the 3rd, there was a lot of instances were scrums resulted in at least one player from each side writhing around on the ice. The usual physical shoving escalated predictably to a couple fights...one behind the Clarkson net, and one right in front of the Clarkson bench in which Hornby got his 10 min misconduct. And the one at the final horn, which I couldn't really see well.

Random notes:

* The Clarkson coaching staff came out noticably early before the opening faceoff. They were out well before either team. The player leadership must be taking a good amount of responsibility given the current coaching situation.

* The Clarkson non-goal...I was in no position to see what happened, but the Clarkson contingent in Section O had an immediate reaction, followed by a lot of vigorous pointing. One thing is for sure...there was a very loud clang of the post. But no signal by any on-ice ref or the goal judge.

* The 3rd Cornell goal was preceded by Doug Murray taking care of 2 Knights at once. In the defensive corner by Section K, Doug pretty much caught them in a check and applied a bear hug. Cornell took possession and started a rush that resulted in Cook's goal. A very entertaining sequence for Cornell fans.

* Clarkson paired up one of their large players with Bâby for most of the game. I can't remember who it was, but he baited Bâby a lot.

* Hornby nearly had a great breakaway chance. He was just sprung from the box in the 2nd, and had the puck squirt out to him, but he just couldn't get enough control of it and his feet to get the chance. Otherwise, a very Hornby-like game.

* Cornell missed out on 2 great scoring chances late in the 2nd. One, with Walsh down, the puck sat in the slot...Vesce (I think) tried to lift it over him into the empty net, but instead lifted it straight up in the air, where it landed short of the crease and Clarkson managed to clear. The second chance was with Walsh caught behind the net...the puck got out in front, and 2 Red players took swipes at it, both going wide.

* End of game, following the fight at the buzzer that got Iggulden DQed, and following the ironic handshakes, Cornell had gathered at center ice for the usual salute...there was one Clarkson player, Reid I think (who is Clarkson's captain, I beleive) was posturing by the penalty boxes as the rest of the Knights were leaving the ice. Knowing the salute wouldn't happen until all opponents left the ice, Murray actually made a move towards Reid...probably said something, and I thought there would be one last fight. But a ref helped Reid find the exit and escorted him there.

As for Hornby, he went to the box 4 times during the game. 3 on his own behalf and 1 for the bench penalty. In our section we joked that he should start to carve his name into the box with tally marks. On the uscho.com interview Doug alluded that Greg was the new enforcer, which leads me to believe he'll have many more marks to etch. And the break-away, he simply wasn't fast enough to get the puck. Doug's containment of two players, classic. I don't think either Knight expected that one on the trip to the corner. As for Reid, a stand he knew he'd lose. So much love to Lenny for the 5th, even if there was a moment of hesitation (phantom goal). But I'm always glad to hear the crowd chant in support and his post-game response of the stick-raise. Who takes Iggy's place tomorrow against St. Lawrence? Only Schafer will tell.

> (Hornby) should start to carve his name into the box with tally marks

Well, he's going to have to sand Jason Dailey's name off first. "Reserved, Daily" (sic?) is still the funniest (albeit immediately confiscated) sign in Lynah Rink history.

Wasn't that "Reserved, D. Dufresne"?

One thing with all the Murray bashing that has been going on...
In the second period the Swede took a hard slap shot off his foot and was clearly in a lot of pain. He stayed on the ice to finish his shift, even though there was an opportunity when the puck cleared the zone for him to get off the ice. A Clarkson player tried to finish him off with a cross check, drawing a penalty. Murray stayed on the ice trough most of the power play and set up a lot of good chances. He stayed on the ice for 2 minutes after getting hit while it was clear that he was in a lot of pain. Good game for Dougie, maybe we've inspired him through elf.

Yes, it was Dufresne.

Sounded like he made a major contribution to the second goal, too.

When I think of a player who spent his time skating back and forth between bench and box it is Nikolic (sp?).

Well, looks like we got away with one there.

My recollection of the "phantom goal", as seen from the near the top of section A:

A Clarkson shot hit the post to Lenny's left (the clang heard by Rich '96). His body was turned to face almost straight to the left. The puck bounced either off of one of his pads, or possibly another player or stick. Following the bounce, it was moving back towards the mouth of the goal. When the puck was......very close to the line, but I don't know on which side of it...Lenny pawed down on it with his glove (left) hand and pulled it away from the goal, at which point the ref blew his whistle, called off the goal, etc.

Ben '03 said [Q] Age has the picture to prove it [/Q]. I am very eager to see this picture.

Truly great photography. But I have to say I can't tell from that picture that the puck is over the line.

It's hard to tell if it's all the way in from that picture... although I imagine it probably went a little further before Lenny gloved it.

From the picture. . .you are correct but from my standpoint next to Age there were at least ten of us that saw the puck cross the goal line.

I agree it's inconclusive, though if it was heading back with any speed, it would have gotten there.

Perhaps more importantly (though maybe not ), it certainly explains why neither the ref (who, if I remember correctly, was on the A side of the goal) nor the goal judge could call it (even from the O side of the goal it'd be very difficult to call, with the post in the way). Give Lenny credit for stealing that one .

Actually the photo is pretty conclusive. Unfortunately the conclusion is that the puck is somewhere between the back of the net and the lens of the camera.

The only games I've seen this year are the two in Florida, but based on those I'd say we deserved a bounce or two going our way this year.

- Peter Schoaff '90

I take your word. Did the puck cross on the ice or was it in the air and Lenny pulled it back? Refs and goal judges often miss the latter.

In the online NCAA hockey rule book, page HR-61, Rule 16-6 (yes, I have no life) it says that "A goal is scored when the puck...passes...completely across the goal line". Thus, it's possible some of it could have traveled over with Lenny clamping it before the entire thing was over the line. And if he put that big glove on top, then no one could tell if it truly went all the way over.

Robb your reference to the ruling on a goal is correct. . . BUT approximately one second after Age took that picture the entire puck was over the line, the whole thing was in the goal, every centimeter was in the net, etc. . .

We caught a break. . .probably a well deserved one at that.

Robb may claim to not have a life, but if there's anyone out there who really has too much time, it might be interesting to try to replace depth perception by comparing the known sizes of the puck and post with their apparent sizes in the picture.

I wonder whether the RealOne College Sports Pass people would let us install video cameras inside the posts...

I've got to disagree on the phantom goal. I was standing ten feet or so to Mike Teeter's right and had a good look at it. The motion of the puck in the photo was straight down from the crossbar. It landed on the line and was swept back into the crease. I have to agree with Teets and Fulton on that one. There was no goal to wave off.

Ben '03 wrote:[q]We caught a break. . .probably a well deserved one at that. [/q]

What the hell does that mean? Either it crossed the line or it didn't. If it didn't, the refs made the right call. If it did, you are going to have to give me a reason why we "deserved" a bad call on a goal in our favor.

BRA. . .try the decaf

My "reason" was in reference to a number of bad calls we've gotten and the unlucky bounces, until now have gone against us. . .if you disagree that's your choice. I hope I've given you some insight into my thought process.

For a team with three losses - none of which seemed undeserved - I'd be hard pressed to see how we've gotten shafted. Nothing that we haven't overcome. And I'm willing to bet that if we read the chat boards for our opponents, we'd find out about all the bad calls/no calls in our favor.

Decaf is a waste.

Well, they did take a "good" one away from us in last year's Clarkson game at Lynah.

> When I think of a player who spent his time skating back and forth between bench and box it is Nikolic (sp?).

Or Crombeen.

I remember Nikolic getting a penalty when in the penalty box for grabbing the jersey/stick of a player that stopped in front of him. Am I remembering that right? (I recall it being at the Garden, but that seems impossible.)

I saw Coach Parker ask Reid to come over to him and then motioned to him to speak with the ref. He seemed to explain to Reid that the ref would talk with him, the captain, but not with the coach. Rather than "posturing", I think Reid was getting clarification, probably of the end-of-game penalty calls.

Speaking of which, I believe it was #14, Abbott, who reponded to Genovy's check from behind against the glass by taking a quick punch at Genovy...no penalty for that??

As for the check from behind call on Genovy, I think it was marginal at best, given that he had not called any of the same types of hits, or worse, earlier in the game, by both teams...notably a couple by Bâby, including one right in front of us in Section O where he absolutely plastered a Clarkson player into the glass directly from behind. Perhaps these refs are reluctant to call 5 min penalties in the midst of tight games...but are not reluctant to do so at the end where it has no impact on the outcome.

I think Fulton was lousy in his penalty calling. We had a D3 coach sitting behind us who "critiqued" him the entire game...he had little good to say! He also clearly missed the Clarkson goal that seemed to hit the underside of the crossbar, then drop staright down clearly behind the line. I saw "white" between the line and the puck. He made a near immediate "wash out" sign from the other side of the goal so he must have seen it differently...or not at all. While it did not matter mathematically in the final score, it would have tied the game at 1-1, most likely after 2 periods...and would have set up a potentially different third period.

In any event, cornell played a near mistake free game defensively , allowing Clarkson perhaps three quality scoring chances and outworked Clarkson for loose pucks, etc. The better team won, no doubt.

If you were to say that the "no goal" call was deserved because your team had gotten shafted on a similar call in the SAME game, I might buy it...but to say it was deserved to offset such a call in a previous game hardly seems right. Different game, different ref....has nothing to do with that night's opponent.

And it was a goal!

RichS and BRA,

I'd like to clarify my vague and/or ambiguous statement. . ."We caught a break. . .probably a well deserved one at that. "

When you play long enough the breaks (bounces, calls, etc...) have to, at some point fall in your favor. To say we deserved the call was an overstatement on my part. To "think" we caught a break (bounce, call, etc...) that we had not been getting (in that game or any other) is my opinion and I believe I am still entitled to that right. . .even on this forum. Agree or disagree, maybe we could agree to disagree, or maybe we could agree to keep disagreeing. I'll leave that up to you but I'm going to class.

~Ben

This is not really directed at Ben, but is more in the nature of screaming into the wind. (I don't know, and don't really care, if we are in the red or the black on "karma points" for the quality of reffing we have been getting. Though, I will venture to say, RichS, that Al was (in jest) talking about karma points, not a make-up call by the zebras.)

Ben most recently, Cynthia McKinney less recently, and any celebrity currently shocked, shocked that the U.S. government is doing something that they disagree with often say:
[q] [insert any opinion here] is my opinion and I believe I am still entitled to that right[/q]
To that I say "So what?" Did I (or anyone) give you the sense that I was some sort of authority preventing you from saying something? That any authority was preventing you from saying something? The right to express an opinion is just that - the right to express an opinion. It in no way affects the rights of anyone else to disagree. Take the disagreement and either justify yourself, shrug and explain I don't get it, tell me to f' off, anything. Just don't act as though my disagreement is some sort of first amendment imposition on your right to speak your mind.

I'm going to get some decaf.

Well, from my vantage point in the top of A, I thought that it didn't cross the line completely, and nothing was snatched from the lion's mouth, so to speak.

I really don't think anybody intended literally to say Cornell "deserved" to get a bad call. I think the intent was to say that it's part of any sport: bad calls happen--some go your way, and others don't. Given that, it makes no sense to flagellate yourself as unworthy in the former case or dwell on it obsessively in the latter. Over time it evens out, and I think that was the point being made.

From the man with the best view of it all, in today's Daily Sun,

"The guy shot it, I think it might have been tipped and it just hit the very corner of the crossbar where it meets the post, and it hit me on the side of my head on the way back, and it landed right on the line," LeNeveu explained. "I just put on glove on the puck right before it crossed the line. It was close but it was a good call by the ref."

Bill R '94 wrote:

From the man with the best view of it all, in today's Daily Sun,

"The guy shot it, I think it might have been tipped and it just hit the very corner of the crossbar where it meets the post, and it hit me on the side of my head on the way back, and it landed right on the line," LeNeveu explained. "I just put on glove on the puck right before it crossed the line. It was close but it was a good call by the ref."

Thanks for the reminder. I'd forgotten to read today's Sun and Journal.

. . .you hit the nail on the head, Thanks Al)

I don't think I'd say anyone ever really "deserves" a bad call.

In any case, Fulton and Teets were closer than any of us, and they both say it wasn't in. That's good enough for me.

Well, having played the position, I can tell you that the goalie often does NOT have the best view...or even a good view!