Important message to ice hockey ticket holders

Hello Season Ticket Holders,

Cornell University promotes good sportsmanship and has zero tolerance for any profanity, racial/sexist comments, or other intimidating actions at intercollegiate athletic events. The penalty for violating this policy is expulsion from the game and revocation of season tickets. There are no verbal warnings or second chances given for violation of this policy.

Furthermore, the band will not be permitted to play "Gary Glitter" at Cornell men's ice hockey games if students continue to chant a profane version of "Rough 'em up, rough 'em up, go CU."

Thank you for your cooperation in promoting good sportsmanship and in creating an inviting atmosphere (no profane language) in Lynah Rink.

GO BIG RED!

amerks127
Hello Season Ticket Holders,

Cornell University promotes good sportsmanship and has zero tolerance for any profanity, racial/sexist comments, or other intimidating actions at intercollegiate athletic events. The penalty for violating this policy is expulsion from the game and revocation of season tickets. There are no verbal warnings or second chances given for violation of this policy.

Furthermore, the band will not be permitted to play "Gary Glitter" at Cornell men's ice hockey games if students continue to chant a profane version of "Rough 'em up, rough 'em up, go CU."

Thank you for your cooperation in promoting good sportsmanship and in creating an inviting atmosphere (no profane language) in Lynah Rink.

GO BIG RED!

Wow - I had no idea it was October. I simply must go and check my calendar...

Ok.. let me ask this.. when was the last time they fired someone from day hall when they swore out loud at the computer because the thing didnt act as expected?

I also expect that cornell no longer promotes playing any movies at its cinemas that promote use of foul language.

and any player who gets caught swearing in a game should get expelled.

and does this go for the ushers\police as well who violate the polices

and wouldnt all the chants be counted as intimdating actions? or any cheering at all in a loud manner?

My reply to this email was:

"Go 'rough' yourselves."

Perhaps we can all do the same.

Presumably, parents don't bring their children to movies that contain foul language if they don't want their children to hear it. Similarly, vice presidents in Day Hall don't normally have children in their offices when they curse out a computer. A hockey game is still a family event.

I use profanity all the time, I just don't do it in hockey games. And I think that the inability to enjoy a hockey game - to chant, sing, or shout in support of your team - without using profanity is a pretty sad failure of imagination. In any event, you've been warned, so it's not like you can say you didn't know.

That having been said, I do think that Coach Schafer should be held to the same standard, and I hear him curse loudly from the bench on a regular basis. He should be the example, not the exception.

Beeeej
I hear him curse loudly from the bench on a regular basis

Canadians recognize a different set of swear words.

Fire Andy.

Well hopefully Andy won't make the band stop playing it, but either way, it would seem fairly easy for the Faithful to simply sing the entire song a capella.

Fire Andy.

Nothing in that letter indicates they won't be permitted to play Gonna Fly Now.

Fire Andy.

Beeeej
That having been said, I do think that Coach Schafer should be held to the same standard, and I hear him curse loudly from the bench on a regular basis. He should be the example, not the exception.

I thought he was always yelling about some sort of seafaring vessel on which animals of the species equus caballus are transported.

Um, was the band appraised of this "condition" before the email went out? Did they agree? And, as Jordan brought up, what exactly is to keep the entire student section from singing it (other than it falling apart from tempo problems)?

The band doesn't have to agree - they play at the pleasure of the Athletic Department, so they will do what the AD says.

amerks127
Furthermore, the band will not be permitted to play "Gary Glitter" at Cornell men's ice hockey games if students continue to chant a profane version of "Rough 'em up, rough 'em up, go CU."

Note that the fact that the artist is a convicted pedophile doesn't bother anybody.

Robb
The band doesn't have to agree - they play at the pleasure of the Athletic Department, so they will do what the AD says.

Not agreeing might carry consequences, but that doesn't mean they have to agree. I'm more curious if they were contacted beforehand that this condition was made.

Give My Regards

amerks127
Furthermore, the band will not be permitted to play "Gary Glitter" at Cornell men's ice hockey games if students continue to chant a profane version of "Rough 'em up, rough 'em up, go CU."

Note that the fact that the artist is a convicted pedophile doesn't bother anybody.

Not at all. Why should it?

This sounds like another one of Matt Coats' (everyone's favorite douchetard) plans to purify Lynah. At the games after break, he posted signs at every entrance stating:

Profanity
=
Ejection

as well as the disclaimer on the back of the ticket. Apparently, athletics hasn't quite discovered how to do landscape printing as of 2009.

If they want to get rid of the word fuck, whatever. But they shouldn't use the band as leverage against the rest of the fans.

Ruck 'em up, ruck 'em up, Go CU

The band was informed of this situation the same time everyone else was.

If athletics decides that we have to stop playing Gary Glitter, we don't really have a choice. Athletics provides us with tickets to every game (hockey, basketball, lacrosse, etc.) and allows us time to play too. The band has little to no bargaining power when it comes to something like this.

The only real way to save the tradition of playing this song, is for people not to say fuck and/or athletics dropping the threat of banning it.

What's the big deal about having to say "Rough 'em up?" I have been shouting that at games for years. I often still think "F 'em up" in my head while I am saying it. There is no reason to say "F 'em up" other than to satisfy your own ego that you are going against the "establishment". Hockey games are loud and energetic, but they are still family events.

I am going to be pretty pissed if the band gets shut down from playing Gary Glitter just because some fans feel they have to make a point. (and an invalid point at that)

I don't think there's a big deal about saying rough as opposed to fuck, just the manner in which Athletics is going about it.

There was a time when the band was threatened with being kicked out of Lynah if they assisted in any cheer that involved the word 'sucks'. So no black hole or <School name> cheer.

Instead of enforcing it individually as they used to do (with specially trained ushers who could read lips), they place the burden of good behavior on the band. If athletics decides screw is all of a sudden profane or asking someone to kill someone is intimidating, will the band not be allowed to play Screw BU or Hey Bâby?

This is all that I have to add...

fatchance72
The band was informed of this situation the same time everyone else was.

If athletics decides that we have to stop playing Gary Glitter, we don't really have a choice. Athletics provides us with tickets to every game (hockey, basketball, lacrosse, etc.) and allows us time to play too. The band has little to no bargaining power when it comes to something like this.

There's always the option of declining Athletics' invitation to play at games if you feel you're being dictated to the point of not enjoying being at the games.

Jordan 04
There's always the option of declining Athletics' invitation to play at games if you feel you're being dictated to the point of not enjoying being at the games.

Unfortunately, the "Atlas Shrugged" option is unlikely to be successful in changing any AD minds: they would be perfectly happy to have Cornell play to a silent rink.

fatchance72
The band was informed of this situation the same time everyone else was.

That is unfortunate. For Athletics to dangle the band as leverage, to put it in Tom's words, is a pretty dick thing to do without the band's consent (or even foreknowledge). I'd say it's a slight to the band that's worth an email of inquiry.

Nothing pisses me off like the band being punished for the actions of others, and letting Athletics make that condition without question doesn't sit right with me.

fatchance72
If athletics decides that we have to stop playing Gary Glitter, we don't really have a choice. Athletics provides us with tickets to every game (hockey, basketball, lacrosse, etc.) and allows us time to play too. The band has little to no bargaining power when it comes to something like this.

The only real way to save the tradition of playing this song, is for people not to say fuck and/or athletics dropping the threat of banning it.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on a few points here. As I said before, the band does have a choice, though those choices come with consequences. And the band does have bargaining power: namely, their presence.

In 2005, during my term as pepband manager, there was an incident involving one of the marching band's buses. Among other things, the punishment was for the marching band to sit out the next roadtrip--a decision the AD immediately retracted when he realized that it would make the school look bad (or weak, or whatever) to have no band there. I believe that game was televised, which probably helped. This proves that the presence of the band matters to the AD, if only in an indirect way.

I should say that I think the chances of Athletics actually telling the band not to play Gary Glitter are low. I think it's probably an empty scare tactic (see also: fish ejection policy). However, if they do forbid Gary Glitter and the band plays it anyway, what would happen? Would the band be ejected? Told to sit out the next game? How do you think that would go over?

I'm not advocating a revolution here or anything, but in general I would advise the band--in all things--to at least keep "no" open as an option. "No" can give you power.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04
There's always the option of declining Athletics' invitation to play at games if you feel you're being dictated to the point of not enjoying being at the games.

Unfortunately, the "Atlas Shrugged" option is unlikely to be successful in changing any AD minds: they would be perfectly happy to have Cornell play to a silent rink.

That's the obvious consequence that the band would have to decide if they are ok suffering.

Would the AD also like Cornell to not have band support at an NCAA hockey regional?

How about being the only team in the field of 65 (knock on wood) to not have a band on the baseline?

Perhaps the answer to both of those is yes as well. But there is leverage in forcing them to cut their nose to spite their face.

Beeeej
Presumably, parents don't bring their children to movies that contain foul language if they don't want their children to hear it. Similarly, vice presidents in Day Hall don't normally have children in their offices when they curse out a computer. A hockey game is still a family event.

I use profanity all the time, I just don't do it in hockey games. And I think that the inability to enjoy a hockey game - to chant, sing, or shout in support of your team - without using profanity is a pretty sad failure of imagination. In any event, you've been warned, so it's not like you can say you didn't know.

That having been said, I do think that Coach Schafer should be held to the same standard, and I hear him curse loudly from the bench on a regular basis. He should be the example, not the exception.

yeah.. I sure see a lot of kids not showing up at Pg and pg13 movies.. they go knowing their is a chance of swearing and if they dont want the kids to hear any they dont come.. but they dont know going in how much there will be. how is this different than the hockey game? hey i dont swear so it isnt a ban than effects me.. but there is no ban on swearing on the campus so why is there at Lynah? its not like the kids and the townies swear all game long.. is a single cheer than for the most part you cant tell all the words really a big issue..

Ok, I have another thing to add.

When you take your kid to a hockey game, there's a decent chance that he or she is going to see two large men punching each other in the face. There's even the possibility of some blood and someone's teeth getting knocked out. To some people this is offensive.

Knowing what I know about the Ithaca townie population (and all of the peace/anti-war signs), I would imagine that most Ithaca parents would be more upset to have their children see a fight than hear an unintelligible swear word come from the other side of the rink.

I would guess that every member of the band would still want to play at the games even if we weren't allowed to play Gary Glitter. Let's be serious, this is a song. Band members aren't gonna give up their tickets to hockey games over a song. I certainly won't.

But you're missing the point, cth95. My point was that athletics holds significant power over the band, whether we care to admit it or not. In this situation, athletics is choosing to use the band as a tool to help cut down on profanity at Lynah. What athletics doesn't realize is that the majority of the potty-mouthed students at the games are going to curse regardless of whether the band plays Gary Glitter.

But I agree with Lauren. It is unlikely that athletics will ask the band to stop playing the song.

fatchance72
athletics is choosing to use the band as a tool

...and really, this is the part I object to. Whether Gary Glitter is important or not is immaterial compared to this.

One thing that really concerns me about this situation is that I've witnessed rink guards on the D/E boarder routinely throw fans who said "rough" claiming they were using the "inappropriate" version... If they're going to assume that we're cursing just from opening our mouths, all they're going to accomplish is a deterioration in cheering overall and serious negative effect on the atmosphere in Lynah.

Willy '06
When you take your kid to a hockey game, there's a decent chance that he or she is going to see two large men punching each other in the face. There's even the possibility of some blood and someone's teeth getting knocked out. To some people this is offensive.

That's actually pretty uncommon at college hockey games. I can't remember the last time players dropped the gloves at Lynah.

I can't believe we are going over this again. What, does it happen every year? Background, when Coach Schafer came he instituted the policy about language at Lynah. Maybe that had something to do with his kids being there, maybe it was, in some small way, a way to atone for his sins? I don't know, but I do completely agree with the policy. Lynah is a great place to take your kids and show some of the fun that can occur at college. I have brought many of my daughter's friends and they have all uniformly enjoyed the experience. Now there are some rinks where I would not be as sure about whether their parents would want me to take them.

The fact is that the school, including the hockey administration, doesn't want this to happen. It's not necessary to enjoy the game, nor to intimidate the visitors; so why does it have to happen? You have a lot of other ways to show your support.

Now in regards to the way the AD said this, well it's another in a list of insensitive moves. One thinks they, and it's not just Andy Noel, could hire a more sensitive individual, and run these things by them first. Hell (oops) there are probably some who would do it for free. Not that I think it will happen, but I can dream.

However, the bottom line is: you don't need to do this to have a good time. Let's forget about it and get back to supporting the team and enjoying ourselves, and letting others enjoy it, while we do it.

They were good for a couple fights a season in my days at Lynah 2002-2006. Not many of them escalated too far, but my two strongest memories did. They were Hornby beating the snot out of a guy on UVM and the Nickerson-Varteressian fight in the 2004 playoffs. Neither of those were kid friendly.

F.U. Andy, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap
F.U. Andy, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap
F.U. Andy, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap

fatchance72
But you're missing the point, cth95. My point was that athletics holds significant power over the band, whether we care to admit it or not. In this situation, athletics is choosing to use the band as a tool to help cut down on profanity at Lynah. What athletics doesn't realize is that the majority of the potty-mouthed students at the games are going to curse regardless of whether the band plays Gary Glitter.

I don't think that I am missing your point. I definitely think athletics has been too strict at times, and I don't like the band being used to control student behavior. The fans have been warned to clean up the language numerous times over many years, however. Since that hasn't worked, I imagine athletics is just trying a new tactic.

I realize that the band is controlled by athletics. People can disagree with the individuals running athletics and therefore the specifics of the rules placed on the band, but the band does represent the university and they are supported by athletics, so I do not have a problem in principle with the band holding some accountability to the department.

My main point is that I don't understand why so many people get upset when they are not allowed to yell profanities in a public setting. I think this simply is selfish, childish, and lacks originality. Profanity is not at all necessary to energetically support our team. If everyone would simply leave out the F-Bombs and the A**holes, athletics would probably leave us alone and we wouldn't have to constantly argue and whine about it.

From what I heard on TV Tuesday, it didn't sound like anyone had trouble expressing their enthusiasm for Obama without swearing.

I can't believe we are going over this again. What, does it happen every year?

While us alums stay the same, new kids come to campus every year. The institutional memory of a college campus is a pretty fragile thing.



That said, if you really can't figure out a creative way to antagonize the opposing team without resorting to vulgar language, I really have to wonder about the quality of the students that Cornell is accepting these days.

cth95
From what I heard on TV Tuesday, it didn't sound like anyone had trouble expressing their enthusiasm for Obama without swearing.

Sounded like Bush was receiving the verbal treatment and hand gestures we reserve for our favorite opponents. Not sure your analogy is spot on.

Wow, people are really worked up over this. If AD does this, the faithful will just sing it (without swearing) a capella. It's more fun anyways. And then start a fire Andy chant.

Wish I could be there to start it.

No, we don't need to swear. I don't, and I haven't heard many people more vocal than me in Lynah over the last 2-odd years (though many have been more clever). If athletics is going to suck about this, maybe we should turn our wrath from the opponent to them for a game- let's see how they like my mindless, uncreative droning when it's about them.

It's a mindset- they think we're ruffians and that they can and should control the student section. Given what I've seen personally seen for the last several years and learned on this forum for years back, they have certainly been able to. They've sucked the life out of the fans through a random ticket policy that doesn't reward commitment- and it all starts with commitment. It would be nice to get a concentrated rebuttal of that mentality; otherwise, they will continue to use the fact that institutional memory is transitory and they are there permanently to slowly shape the student section to their ideal.

BMac
Wow, people are really worked up over this. If AD does this, the faithful will just sing it a capella. It's more fun anyways. And then start a fire Andy chant.

Wish I could be there to start it.

My thoughts exactly. And "Go Rough Yourself" would be a good sign idea.

nyc94

cth95
From what I heard on TV Tuesday, it didn't sound like anyone had trouble expressing their enthusiasm for Obama without swearing.

Sounded like Bush was receiving the verbal treatment and hand gestures we reserve for our favorite opponents. Not sure your analogy is spot on.

You are probably right. I didn't hear any profanity, but I did see some pretty poor responses. At least our fans are only antagonizing opposing hockey players. No matter what you think about someone's policies, I thought that was really classless to boo and jeer an outgoing President, but that's a totally different topic.

My thougts on this remain the same: 1) you don't need profanity to indimiate the opposition. 2) The AD's office sucks 3) The way some ushers treat the students is appalling.

I have two suggestions:

- Someone needs to ask the AD's office for a list of words which are considered banned, and those which are considered safe. As people noted, sucks and screw are borderline, and I think the students would seriously like to know where they stand before risking ejection by an overzealous usher.

- It would be interesting to substitute the word "profanity" for every curse word used in the cheers. For example, try "Aaaaah, see you, profanity! You goon!" as a method of protest.

Again, my issue is not with the profanity, it's with the behavior of the AD's office.

What does the athletics department think will be the response when it threatens the pep band and fans to be good little boys and girls or else? Talk about counter-productive.

Can't all-too-free-speech proponents recognize that some other fans - townies perhaps, families with children, older fans - may not like swearing in public? Either because they don't like it, or because they find it's sophomoric? This is well put:

mnagowski
... if you really can't figure out a creative way to antagonize the opposing team without resorting to vulgar language, I really have to wonder about the quality of the students that Cornell is accepting these days.

The most powerful thing about the Cornell advantage is the mostly packed house at home and the hundreds of fans in red who show up at road games. It's disconcerting for Princeton or Yale to have the visiting fans controlling the atmosphere. It's wondrous that Fair Harvard would rather have empty seats than visiting Cornellians in those seats.

people think its the students doing all the swearing? sitting in the other side of the rink i dont here much coming from the student side but there is sure alot coming from the townie side.

swearing is accepted in society much more today. that doesnt make it right or wrong. but to worry about the effect on people for 1-2 cheers a game is a little over the edge.

there is much worse being said every time ref blows a call then is said when the band plays..

I've got it!

They should install a button that makes a really loud bleeping sound that drowns out the swears. Andy Noel, Gene Nighman, Matt Coates, whoever... can sit by the button and press it whenever there is any swearing anticipated

That's how they do it on TV.

I think that the reason that the students don't want to give up swearing is because of the lack of consistency and the underhanded tactics that the Athletic Department uses to try to control student behavior. 18-22 year olds don't respond well to that. Maybe if they'd treat the students like adults, the students would respond better (and maybe not).

Instead of a sign saying that you'll be thrown out if you swear, how about a sign with a picture of a 6 year old kid that says:

"This is Billy's first hockey game. He's going to be a Big Red fan for life, but his parents won't bring him to any more games if he keeps learning bad words at the games and repeating them in school. Do you want Billy to be deprived of Big Red Hockey?"

Maybe it's stupid, but I think guilt will go a lot farther than intimidation.

The guilt thing sure works on me, I never use the profane versions of the cheers, but at the football games where I always seem to be surrounded with little kids I have a lot of trouble saying even sucks or hell, it just feels wrong.

Individually, I believe that almost everyone would do the right thing. When I had my young kids with me at a Princeton game a few years ago, I asked the students around us to say "rough" - they did, and did it so loudly, that there was no chance for my kids to hear what the rest of the section was saying.

I think if you just put young kids in the aisles of the student section, the problem would be solved by itself.

We do this thread every year.

The solution is for the rest of the crowd to boo the 1-in-100 idiots and clubhouse lawyers who insist that dropping the F bomb is their Constitutional right until they shut up. Shaming is a lost art.

KeithK
That's actually pretty uncommon at college hockey games. I can't remember the last time players dropped the gloves at Lynah.

"Leeor, cleanup on aisle 6."

What bothered me, and this is going back a couple seasons, was when rink ushers would threaten to toss us for being really loud and not cursing.

A friend and I noticed that a game (we were in D) was a little quiet, I think it was the start of the 2nd period. So we screamed our head off at the opposing goalie, team, and pretty much everyone in sight. No cursing.

An usher came over and threatened to toss us out.

It seems that we are the only team that is preoccupied with cursing by fans during games. Maybe this is because of how many times I've encountered the embarassing lack of creativity that is the "Fuck Cornell" chant at Colgate.

Dafatone
What bothered me, and this is going back a couple seasons, was when rink ushers would threaten to toss us for being really loud and not cursing.

A friend and I noticed that a game (we were in D) was a little quiet, I think it was the start of the 2nd period. So we screamed our head off at the opposing goalie, team, and pretty much everyone in sight. No cursing.

An usher came over and threatened to toss us out.

That's because an attitude of "assume all students are up to no good" is taught, nurtured, and reinforced in the usher training and meetings. If something noisy and unusual happens in the student sections, they must be up to somethin' and it's their job to go hassle those troublemakers. It makes me sick, but that's the way it has been for years.

And we have this debate every year because there are people passionate about each side of the issue here, and there's really no way to come to an agreement. It's polarizing.

Also, I'm a little offended by the suggestion that if a word is uttered by a student that some consider to be vulgar (and who exactly is the judge of that?), then that student is of lower quality than others. C'mon, with your high-handed smugness. I assure you that just about every person you have ever admired or thought to be extraordinary has used salty language at some point in their lives...and probably often.

Frankly, this always reminds me of the TV debate over language. Who is responsible for parenting the kids? The broadcast networks? The Cornell Athletics Department? It's my opinion that there needs to be more responsible parenting, by talking to the children about certain things. Explain to them why you don't want them to use some of the words they may hear in this world, because they will hear them. If not at Lynah, then at the playground or on the street. Treating a child like a mature, intelligent human being will go farther than throwing a jacket over their head and carrying them out the back door of Lynah hoping that they didn't just hear and will never ever repeat that awful, foul, terrible word!

Disclaimer: yeah, I'm being just as high-handed in the above paragraph as I accused others of being. Especially since I don't have kids yet. Meh. It's an opinion.

Anyway, maybe the Athletics Dept. would get a higher profit if they weren't recruiting and training an army of lip-readers in fear that a naughty word slip out. And of course, bringing the band into this is weak.

It always annoyed me that athletics cared so much about the townies. I see the University as a place for students where townies are invited in, not the other way around. I think the AD and all have sort of forgotten that.

Now, it's true that we should be able to intimidate the opposition without swearing, but I also don't think that dropping the occasional curse (like during Gary Glitter) is a mortal sin. The users also need to get the hell off their power trip too- when I graduated ('07), they were tossing people who screamed "sucks" and "I hate you" just a little too loudly. The reason? Apparently "hate" is a strong word... I'm so glad they weren't the bouncers at any of the bars around Ithaca.

I refuse to read through another thread about this topic, in which people talk about "rights" and "principles" and similar nonsense. I'd rather debate the HIPAA implications of discussing Davenport's post-RPI injury.

"No cursing" has been a formal policy for more than a decade, IIRC. If Gary Glitter has become a reason for a substantial percentage of the crowd to scream "fuck," Gary Glitter will be a casualty of the policy. I'm surprised that it has taken this long, actually.

Stop saying fuck, you fucking babies.

I'm curious if the same threat was made to basketball ticket holders. The pep band covers both sports and plays Gary Glitter at Newman too.

MB
It always annoyed me that athletics cared so much about the townies. I see the University as a place for students where townies are invited in, not the other way around. I think the AD and all have sort of forgotten that.

So, we forget about your professors and everyone who works at Cornell to keep it running. Forget about people like me, who have been going, and giving, since we were freshman in 1963. In fact, let's throw all of them out of CU and you can teach yourself. After all, as I had posted before it was Coach who wanted the vulgarity gone; maybe we could just not allow his wife and kids in Lynah, that would solve the problem.


Look, it's obviously posts like this that get me going, but we all live in this world together, why can't we just try and have some consideration for others. Just because the athletic department seems inconsiderate, doesn't mean we all have to be.

MB
It always annoyed me that athletics cared so much about the townies. I see the University as a place for students where townies are invited in, not the other way around. I think the AD and all have sort of forgotten that.

Alternately, one might view the university as a community resource for research and advanced scholarship, where undergrads are veal calves to harvest tuition dollars from and otherwise contribute nothing of value.

Opinions vary.

Jim Hyla

MB
It always annoyed me that athletics cared so much about the townies. I see the University as a place for students where townies are invited in, not the other way around. I think the AD and all have sort of forgotten that.

So, we forget about your professors and everyone who works at Cornell to keep it running. Forget about people like me, who have been going, and giving, since we were freshman in 1963. In fact, let's throw all of them out of CU and you can teach yourself. After all, as I had posted before it was Coach who wanted the vulgarity gone; maybe we could just not allow his wife and kids in Lynah, that would solve the problem.


Look, it's obviously posts like this that get me going, but we all live in this world together, why can't we just try and have some consideration for others. Just because the athletic department seems inconsiderate, doesn't mean we all have to be.

Let's not forget that the townies have been going for 10-20 years or more and paying full price, whereas the students are there for four years at a reduced price (if the SA is still doing that). I always liked it around 2003-2004 when other students complained that they should take away townie seats so the students had more, despite the fact that the townies would gaurantee to fill every seat pretty much in perpetuity whereas the student section would start to see holes if a couple bad seasons hit.

Trotsky
Alternately, one might view the university as a community resource for research and advanced scholarship, where undergrads are veal calves to harvest tuition dollars from and otherwise contribute nothing of value.

I am certain this is the way the University administration views the undergrads. Whether this is consistent with the University's stated mission or not is up for debate.

Either way, threatening to take away everyone's toys because of the questionable behavior of a minority is a poor way to discipline, even if the students were children, which they are not.

IMO, figure out a way to police the bad behavior without impacting the fun of the rest of the fans, or do nothing. Collateral damage is something up with which I will not put. As a Coach's Club member, I will not continue to financially support a crackdown on student enthusiasm in the name of cracking down on bad behavior.

Jim Hyla
So, we forget about your professors and everyone who works at Cornell to keep it running. Forget about people like me, who have been going, and giving, since we were freshman in 1963. In fact, let's throw all of them out of CU and you can teach yourself. After all, as I had posted before it was Coach who wanted the vulgarity gone; maybe we could just not allow his wife and kids in Lynah, that would solve the problem.


Look, it's obviously posts like this that get me going, but we all live in this world together, why can't we just try and have some consideration for others. Just because the athletic department seems inconsiderate, doesn't mean we all have to be.

If we're going for hyperbole, how about you kick out the students? I'm sure the lack of tuition dollars (and future alumni donations) will pay the staff's salary for a long time. You're right about us all needing to live together, but give and take goes both ways. Students are going to be students no matter what you do.

For the record, I've lived in Ithaca since '88 and my pops is a prof, so don't try accusing me of forgetting about the locals. What I'm trying to say is that there will always be a disconnect between students and townies, and everyone needs to realize that. If a student goes to the Hangar (or the chili cook-off, or wine tasting), they shouldn't go wasted and be an ass. If a local goes to a student game, they shouldn't be offended by someone loudly heckling the goalie using less than pristine language. Once again, I'm not saying that the students should be swearing left and right, but two f-bombs a game is better than cable TV. It is how it is, and we'll always have two different worlds. (Don't even get me started about this whole Collegetown debacle)

Fluff 'em up, Fluff 'em up. Go CU

Well looks like we can't win without fuck.

Tom Tone
Well looks like we can't win without fuck.

I dare you to start a "Can't Win Without Fuck" chant tomorrow.

I double dog dare you!

KeithK

Tom Tone
Well looks like we can't win without fuck.

I dare you to start a "Can't Win Without Fuck" chant tomorrow.

I double dog dare you!

Do it for a taco?

Tom Tone
Well looks like we can't win without fuck.

"We can't jeer you!"

MB

Jim Hyla
So, we forget about your professors and everyone who works at Cornell to keep it running. Forget about people like me, who have been going, and giving, since we were freshman in 1963. In fact, let's throw all of them out of CU and you can teach yourself. After all, as I had posted before it was Coach who wanted the vulgarity gone; maybe we could just not allow his wife and kids in Lynah, that would solve the problem.


Look, it's obviously posts like this that get me going, but we all live in this world together, why can't we just try and have some consideration for others. Just because the athletic department seems inconsiderate, doesn't mean we all have to be.

If we're going for hyperbole, how about you kick out the students? I'm sure the lack of tuition dollars (and future alumni donations) will pay the staff's salary for a long time. You're right about us all needing to live together, but give and take goes both ways. Students are going to be students no matter what you do.

For the record, I've lived in Ithaca since '88 and my pops is a prof, so don't try accusing me of forgetting about the locals. What I'm trying to say is that there will always be a disconnect between students and townies, and everyone needs to realize that. If a student goes to the Hangar (or the chili cook-off, or wine tasting), they shouldn't go wasted and be an ass. If a local goes to a student game, they shouldn't be offended by someone loudly heckling the goalie using less than pristine language. Once again, I'm not saying that the students should be swearing left and right, but two f-bombs a game is better than cable TV. It is how it is, and we'll always have two different worlds. (Don't even get me started about this whole Collegetown debacle)

All I can say is, WOW.

Jim Hyla
All I can say is, WOW.

I could say the exact same thing back to you, but it's obvious you're not getting my point, and I'm not getting yours. I just think that athletics is overreacting, again, as usual

MB

Jim Hyla
All I can say is, WOW.

I could say the exact same thing back to you, but it's obvious you're not getting my point, and I'm not getting yours. I just think that athletics is overreacting, again, as usual

I do get your point.

Jim Hyla
Just because the athletic department seems inconsiderate, doesn't mean we all have to be.

I totally agree the athletic dept is acting like a bunch of as**s, after all they were the ones who stopped my daughter and her friends, me included, from throwing candy at Lynah. They also stopped the penalty box officials from throwing, but they've been able to restart. So now I just throw it in opposing rinks, and when I'm there and see a certain Associate AD I always toss a Snickers that way. I'm sure they get the point. But although I'll put it as part of my signature, I'm not going to allow that to interfere with my having a good time.


That's my point, these things are small compared to the fun we can all have, and it's ultimately better, I think, to find a way to needle them back while not stooping to their level. This is one time that students could actually act more grown-up than the athletic dept. Why not come up with some particular cheer that shows how stupid and childish they are handling this. We all know they could have done it in a much better manner.

Tom Tone
Well looks like we can't win without fuck.

Well, I obviously have to arrange "Rockin' the Suburbs" for the band.

And to think I was just having a conversation over dinner about wasting time reading drivel on the internet.

Schafer, for one is a hypocrite IMO. He was pretty amused by all th evarious cheers etc when he was an assistant coach and speaking off the record. Of course it was then Coahc McCutcheon all pissed off about taking his kids to games and the obscenities they had to hear.

Sure things change when you have kids.. but I'd lay a benjamin on the idea that anyone who ever coaches the team has to follow the AD's party line about the cursing.


I find institutional memory to be funny. IIRC, as I was a pep-band memebr at the time, that we first started playing Gary Glitter at the direct request of the hockey team - which had heard it played in the spring '86 NCAA playoff games they played out at U. Denver and requested it for the next year when they came back. I don't recall if it was a direct official request or just form one of the band members who knew one of the players and it was informal... but that's the genesis of it. (Anyone who was a fellow band member at the time correct me if I have confused my tunes here, but I'm quite certain...)

This is a pretty drastic action to take - AD seems to be playing high-stakes poker with this one. It might clean things up. It might also suck the energy out of the room when the band doesn't play it. And if told not to, they won't. Someone else suggested a cappella would be more fun anyway- Can't say if it would or not, but I am sure that the crowd would certainly do it a cappella in protest-- and good luck teasing out the rough em ups from the fuck em ups. I don't really see how this can be seen as anything other than a bluff that will be called by anyone who's thinking it through. I can only wonder what has brought this annual battle to this level of stakes... Anyone know what has a pole so far up the AD's ass that such an absurd threat shows up?

I'd love to hear a crowd wide a-cappella version of gary glitter that was squeeky clean except calling for the resignation of Andy. Mocking the man. He's proving to be one of the *smaller* people I've ever heard of.

Jim Hyla
This is one time that students could actually act more grown-up than the athletic dept. Why not come up with some particular cheer that shows how stupid and childish they are handling this.

Most student fans don't feel as oppressed as the discussion on this thread would lead one to believe. We are used to email threats, pat downs, and lip readers, and we still have our fun. Most of us are not aware or don't particularly care about the evolution of Athletics Dept. policies. The vast majority don't read ELF. No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

imafrshmn
No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

Thank you. Imafrshmn has the best post and attitude of this entire thread.

cth95

imafrshmn
No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

Thank you. Imafrshmn has the best post and attitude of this entire thread.

It'd be a terrible attitude for a porn star with a lot of debts, though.

Beeeej

cth95

imafrshmn
No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

Thank you. Imafrshmn has the best post and attitude of this entire thread.

It'd be a terrible attitude for a porn star with a lot of debts, though.

New winner for best post and attitude!

Beeeej

cth95

imafrshmn
No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

Thank you. Imafrshmn has the best post and attitude of this entire thread.

It'd be a terrible attitude for a porn star with a lot of debts, though.

My nomination for post of the month!

Yup, Athletics will be happiest when we're all sitting politely in our seats, silently enjoying the game with our hands clasped in our laps.

Just noticed on the CU Athletics Hockey page the warning includes this:

"Fans who do engage in foul language or “curse-like” words, including the use of similar-sounding words or switching sounds from one word to another, are subject to removal of the site of competition.

"Similar-sounding words???"

"Switching sounds from one word to another???"

Come ON!!

Interesting, there is a link that lets you email the message to a friend. I may have to send a note to my friend jan16@cornell.edu...

TimV
"Similar-sounding words???"

Can't say the word "puck" anymore in Lynah.

Nor the word "shift".

switching sounds from one word to another

What does this even mean?

Jordan 04

switching sounds from one word to another

What does this even mean?

"Huck Farvard"

RichH

Jordan 04

switching sounds from one word to another

What does this even mean?

"Huck Farvard"

or "Harvard Sucking Fucks"

"Fans who do engage in foul language or “curse-like” words, including the use of similar-sounding words or switching sounds from one word to another, are subject to removal of the site of competition.

OK, seriously for a minute. They're banning "curse-like" words now?? That's crossing a line and entering the realm of Thought Police here. I sanitize my language by substituting curse-like words for actual curses so as not to offend people who either hate cursing at games or have small children.

So if one screams "Fark!" or "Fudge!" or "Sugar!" or "Crud!" or "Blerg!" to use some generic examples...someone may shout these in the same manner that they might shout out a recognized curse word. Which of these are OK? Which aren't? Why????

This is ridiculous.

RichH

"Fans who do engage in foul language or “curse-like” words, including the use of similar-sounding words or switching sounds from one word to another, are subject to removal of the site of competition.

OK, seriously for a minute. They're banning "curse-like" words now?? That's crossing a line and entering the realm of Thought Police here. I sanitize my language by substituting curse-like words for actual curses so as not to offend people who either hate cursing at games or have small children.

So if one screams "Fark!" or "Fudge!" or "Sugar!" or "Crud!" or "Blerg!" to use some generic examples...someone may shout these in the same manner that they might shout out a recognized curse word. Which of these are OK? Which aren't? Why????

This is ridiculous.

Gosh dang it, that's boat ship. Dandy Joel is a real tadpole.

I would definitely encourage the use of "Blerg," preferably by the entire crowd.

Was there no candyman and no costume for Dave part of our punishment tonight?

A lot of people are less upset about the swearing ban, but rather the fact that Lynah is slowly adopting a police state atmosphere. For the two winter break games, the ushers in A would walk around and stand right behind people, including myself. I can tell you that having that overzealous evil woman from section A standing behind you for 5 minutes really detracts from your ability to enjoy the game. They threw somebody out last night for calling the goalie by his first name. This kind of garbage is unacceptable.

hboss902
They threw somebody out last night for calling the goalie by his first name.

If someone can corroborate that (e.g., the victim), I would be very interested to hear about it.

hboss902
A lot of people are less upset about the swearing ban, but rather the fact that Lynah is slowly adopting a police state atmosphere. For the two winter break games, the ushers in A would walk around and stand right behind people, including myself. I can tell you that having that overzealous evil woman from section A standing behind you for 5 minutes really detracts from your ability to enjoy the game. They threw somebody out last night for calling the goalie by his first name. This kind of garbage is unacceptable.

Which aisle for A?

Chris '03

RichH

"Fans who do engage in foul language or “curse-like” words, including the use of similar-sounding words or switching sounds from one word to another, are subject to removal of the site of competition.

OK, seriously for a minute. They're banning "curse-like" words now?? That's crossing a line and entering the realm of Thought Police here. I sanitize my language by substituting curse-like words for actual curses so as not to offend people who either hate cursing at games or have small children.

So if one screams "Fark!" or "Fudge!" or "Sugar!" or "Crud!" or "Blerg!" to use some generic examples...someone may shout these in the same manner that they might shout out a recognized curse word. Which of these are OK? Which aren't? Why????

This is ridiculous.

Gosh dang it, that's boat ship. Dandy Joel is a real tadpole.

According to a friend who went to the coach's lunch on Friday, Schafer joked that his kids still think the cheer goes, "Scooby-Doo and Harvard, Too!"

Robb
According to a friend who went to the coach's lunch on Friday, Schafer joked that his kids still think the cheer goes, "Scooby-Doo and Harvard, Too!"

When our son was very young, we used to yell: "Boo BU" That worked for a very long time.

I would love to know of anyone who gets thrown out for a 'curse-like' word or for substituting sounds. As a new grad student with way too much time on my hands, I would enjoy filing charges with the Judicial Administrator for violating people's freedom of syllables.

redice

Robb
According to a friend who went to the coach's lunch on Friday, Schafer joked that his kids still think the cheer goes, "Scooby-Doo and Harvard, Too!"

When our son was very young, we used to yell: "Boo BU" That worked for a very long time.

So what did you tell him the metal piece of hardware with helical spiraled threads is called? A twisty nail? Wait, no. "Nail" could also be dirty.

Tom Tone
I would love to know of anyone who gets thrown out for a 'curse-like' word or for substituting sounds. As a new grad student with way too much time on my hands, I would enjoy filing charges with the Judicial Administrator for violating people's freedom of syllables.

Hell, I'd consider taking it on as an attorney pro bono.

Beeeej

hboss902
They threw somebody out last night for calling the goalie by his first name.

If someone can corroborate that (e.g., the victim), I would be very interested to hear about it.

In the usher's defense, the Brown goalie is named Fuckwad Jones.

Beeeej

cth95

imafrshmn
No "asshole," no "fuck," no big deal.

Thank you. Imafrshmn has the best post and attitude of this entire thread.

It'd be a terrible attitude for a porn star with a lot of debts, though.

... it wasn't long before the studio regretted hiring Bartleby.

Well, I'm a townie with two kids (8 and 5). Around my kids I never curse (they think that "shoot" is the worst curse word I know...and I've got a mouth that would make a sailor blush). I don't much care if the students curse or not when my kids are there. It's my job to teach my kids about appropriate use of language. It's not like a hockey game is the only place they are going to hear cursing. We routinely hear all sorts of "nasty" words just grocery shopping (often from people on cell phones). Walking around campus with my kids they once got to hear a girl talking (loudly) about getting wasted and fucking her boyfriend's best friend (a conversation that I'm fairly sure probably should have been conducted at lower volume). That lead to far more of a discussion with my kids than hockey cheers. I just say "We don't use those words, do the cheer this way" and we get on with our evening.

I don't believe I need the AD to protect my children's ears for me. However, I also don't feel that cursing is an integral part of a good cheer.

The coercive measures being used to attempt to control crowd behavior really seem excessive.

CK

OK, I demand that a fan next week (Dean/"Imafrshmn-who-is-actually-now-a-senior, I'm looking at you) start the following cheer, softly, rising to a massive crescendo:

"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"HOCKEY IS A GAME PLAYED WITH A PUCK!"
"A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"

Please? Pretty please?

I'm rather torn between hating the AD for killing the atmosphere and appreciating his effort to not let the students' antics get out of control. I just started grad school at Michigan this year and have to say that the games are better without people swearing for no reason.

That being said the Gary Glitter cheer is one of my favorites and I don't think that threatening to remove it is the right call. At least things haven't been getting worse and for a while that should be enough for the AD - you're never going to make the hockey game completely clean, and why would you? When you make an emotional investment in a team sometimes things get ugly (probably not an appropriate argument for the Gary Glitter cheer but in general)

As an aside here's an example of what happens when there's no ushers around and no one cares what we say:




YouTube

RedAndBlue'08
I'm rather torn between hating the AD for killing the atmosphere and appreciating his effort to not let the students' antics get out of control. I just started grad school at Michigan this year and have to say that the games are better without people swearing for no reason.

That being said the Gary Glitter cheer is one of my favorites and I don't think that threatening to remove it is the right call. At least things haven't been getting worse and for a while that should be enough for the AD - you're never going to make the hockey game completely clean, and why would you? When you make an emotional investment in a team sometimes things get ugly (probably not an appropriate argument for the Gary Glitter cheer but in general)

As an aside here's an example of what happens when there's no ushers around and no one cares what we say:




YouTube

Someone should send that video clip to Andy Noel and tell him that his "skills and talents" (along with those of his hockey ushers) are desperately needed in Ann Arbor!

Go West Andy, go west.

Taking Gary Glitter away for a little while will make the swearing go away.

for those who don't know, at Cheel after the "1 Minute of play in the first[or 2nd/3rd] period" announcement Clarkson fans yell "OOOOKay and [Opponent] still sucks". This seemed to be fine with everyone until large numbers of people would add "Dick" to the end of it.

The Arena Management, possibly under instruction from the athletic dept, stopped the announcement at the end of the periods for most of last season. Now this season the announcements are back, but the dicks who yelled "Dick" seem to be silenced. Students have policed it right out of the arena.

Yes, J. Andrew should head out West after this lovely spectacle that was broadcast on tv.





For those who can't hear it, the chant is 'Fuck you State'

or this classy example from UND - where the Denver coach was ejected and attempted to sit in the penalty box.

BMac
OK, I demand that a fan next week (Dean/"Imafrshmn-who-is-actually-now-a-senior, I'm looking at you) start the following cheer, softly, rising to a massive crescendo:

"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"Hockey is a game played with a PUCK!"
"HOCKEY IS A GAME PLAYED WITH A PUCK!"
"A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUCK! A PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!"

Please? Pretty please?

Yo Bernardo, almost noone in A will have a clue what we're talking about.

Dpperk29
for those who don't know, at Cheel after the "1 Minute of play in the first[or 2nd/3rd] period" announcement Clarkson fans yell "OOOOKay and [Opponent] still sucks". This seemed to be fine with everyone until large numbers of people would add "Dick" to the end of it.

The Arena Management, possibly under instruction from the athletic dept, stopped the announcement at the end of the periods for most of last season. Now this season the announcements are back, but the dicks who yelled "Dick" seem to be silenced. Students have policed it right out of the arena.

When I first started watching Cornell hockey, the PA announcer would mark the end of an unsuccessful Cornell power play with "[Opponent] returns to full strength." The Lynah Faithful would follow that with a loud, synchronized, "And they still suck!" Even when a successful Cornell penalty kill ended, he would announce, "Cornell returns to full strength," and we would follow that with a loud, synchronized, "And [opponent] still sucks!"

Those announcements stopped in early 1990s - and I've noticed they don't do it in most other arenas, either. I always assumed Cornell's Athletics Dept. stopped it because they didn't like the response.

On the other hand, for all I know, Arthur had a sore throat one week and just decided it wasn't worth bothering with anymore. But I sure do miss it.