Garman is gone (from the hockey program)

[cornellsun.com]

Actually, Mike is not gone, he has left the hockey team. He is on campus attending classes so that he can graduate.

dag14
Actually, Mike is not gone, he has left the hockey team. He is on campus attending classes so that he can graduate.

Now I'm really confused. He's a junior. How can he "graduate" if he's going to play pro hockey next year? Or is he going to finish this semester so he has only two more required to complete his degree...someday? In which case he hasn't decided to "graduate," he's decided to leave after his junior year and put his education on hold. Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Al DeFlorio

dag14
Actually, Mike is not gone, he has left the hockey team. He is on campus attending classes so that he can graduate.

Now I'm really confused. He's a junior. How can he "graduate" if he's going to play pro hockey next year? Or is he going to finish this semester so he has only two more required to complete his degree...someday? In which case he hasn't decided to "graduate," he's decided to leave after his junior year and put his education on hold. Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Maybe he's smarter than you and me, Al?

hmmm. and people didn't think the poster early last week knew what he was talking about..

Al DeFlorio

dag14
Actually, Mike is not gone, he has left the hockey team. He is on campus attending classes so that he can graduate.

Now I'm really confused. He's a junior. How can he "graduate" if he's going to play pro hockey next year? Or is he going to finish this semester so he has only two more required to complete his degree...someday? In which case he hasn't decided to "graduate," he's decided to leave after his junior year and put his education on hold. Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

It's certainly possible to graduate after three years if you have enough credits. He may have come in with a bunch of AP credits and/or taken classes over the summers to get ahead. He might also be planning to graduate in August, which gives him another chance to take classes.

upprdeck
hmmm. and people didn't think the poster early last week knew what he was talking about..

I didn't interpret it that way: my statement ("Can I PM you for details?" was to express skepticism about any unconfirmed "I heard it from a guy who knows" claim. I had no basis for either believing it or disbelieving it, and my statement should not have been interpreted as a judgment about the truth of the claim. Now we have confirmation. Fabulous.

KeithK
It's certainly possible to graduate after three years if you have enough credits. He may have come in with a bunch of AP credits and/or taken classes over the summers to get ahead. He might also be planning to graduate in August, which gives him another chance to take classes.

And that's what I'm told will happen. While it's possible, it's not exactly the norm, especially for someone playing a sport with a season that extends six months across a nine-month school year. Good for Mike.

Well, unless a late goaltending recruit is in the works, Iles will need to play the iron man role next season.

scoop85
Well, unless a late goaltending recruit is in the works, Iles will need to play the iron man role next season.

Or the band should start learning how to play The Farmer in the Dell.

its a dead period now so it may be awhile before any new recruiting gets done.

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

KeithK

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

Or, you could choose to remember this.

Scersk '97

KeithK

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

Or, you could choose to remember this.

I'm not very good at math, but from the box below, I counted 2 Harvard goals, not 3. Was it 5-3 or 5-2? Just curious.

Harvard 1 2 0 - 3

Cornell 2 2 1 - 5



Period 1

03:58 Cor Matt Cooney (Brad Chartrand, Jeff Burgoyne)

04:15 Hvd Konik (Holmes, Oberman)

11:29 Cor sh P.C. Drouin (Vinnie Auger)



Period 2

01:44 Cor sh Brad Chartrand (Bill Holowatiuk)

06:29 Hvd Craigen (Swenson)

12:14 Cor Brad Chartrand (unassisted)



Period 3

02:43 Cor Brad Chartrand (Matt Cooney, Jamie Papp)

Harvard scored a power play goal late in the second:

H Bent (Nielsen, Storey), 14:13  PPG				3-4

Source:
[www.elynah.com]

For what it's worth, and I don't know how much, Kanji was the Toronto Globe and Mail's all secondary school first team goalie his senior year at Upper Canada College. It may not be the highest level of play for those entering Division I, but it is the school that gave us Colin Greening and, if I remember correctly, Bruce Pattison '69.

KeithK

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

Think about it this way: if Skazyk didn't come early Cornell wouldn't have had a better goalie situation that year.

KeithK
You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

The program can't be held responsible for Duffus being a dufus.

[I kid, I kid...]

KeithK

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

Except Andy Bandurski got the large majority of the starts in '92-'93. Skazyk didn't become the primary starter until '94-'95. Elliott took it from him right around Jan. 1996.

Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

RichH
Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

No, Burt was added because Jean Marc Pelletier went pro after his sophomore season. What you're remembering is the fact that he didn't play at all until Elliott was hurt late in the '98 season.

RichH

KeithK

marty

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky

Al DeFlorio
Or is he some kind of genius and will get his degree in only three years?

Didn't Jordan Kary just do this?

The last time we had a situation like this we accelerated the schedule of a future goalie. The result was The Ballad of Eddie Skazyk.

I kind of hope this turns out a little better.

I thought McKee had deferred matriculation but then changed when LeNeveu left.

That's what I remember too.

You two may be right. But some of us remember the Skazyk situation a little more clearly because that didn't turn out quite as well. 1993... *cringe*.

Except Andy Bandurski got the large majority of the starts in '92-'93. Skazyk didn't become the primary starter until '94-'95. Elliott took it from him right around Jan. 1996.

I'm not blaming 1993 on Eddie Skazyk. I'm just saying some of us remember it very well because it was so memorable. In a less than good way.

KeithK

RichH
Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

No, Burt was added because Jean Marc Pelletier went pro after his sophomore season. What you're remembering is the fact that he didn't play at all until Elliott was hurt late in the '98 season.

Wasn't Burt's first action in relief during a blowout loss at Yale? I was at that game and I'm pretty sure I remember him standing in the crease, nervous and unsteady, looking like a newborn foal.

ugarte

KeithK

RichH
Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

No, Burt was added because Jean Marc Pelletier went pro after his sophomore season. What you're remembering is the fact that he didn't play at all until Elliott was hurt late in the '98 season.

Wasn't Burt's first action in relief during a blowout loss at Yale? I was at that game and I'm pretty sure I remember him standing in the crease, nervous and unsteady, looking like a newborn foal.

Blowout loss at Yale? There was no game in New Haven that year.

Burt played the second half of the game that didn't happen and gave up 7 goals on 25 shots:
[www.elynah.com]
That was the only non-exhibition action he saw that season until the game at Harvard when Elliott was hurt.

KeithK

ugarte

KeithK

RichH
Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

No, Burt was added because Jean Marc Pelletier went pro after his sophomore season. What you're remembering is the fact that he didn't play at all until Elliott was hurt late in the '98 season.

Wasn't Burt's first action in relief during a blowout loss at Yale? I was at that game and I'm pretty sure I remember him standing in the crease, nervous and unsteady, looking like a newborn foal.

Blowout loss at Yale? There was no game in New Haven that year.

Burt played the second half of the game that didn't happen and gave up 7 goals on 18 shots:
[www.elynah.com]
That was the only non-exhibition action he saw that season until the game at Harvard when Elliott was hurt.

FYP. That boxscore is exactly as ugly as I remember it.

NB: FYP apparently means "F'd Your Post"; and this correction was a mistake.

It was 25 shots - the line next to each goalie is saves, not shots. But ugly either way.

KeithK

ugarte

KeithK

RichH
Wasn't Ian Burt trucked in as a "January freshman" because of an injury to Jason Elliott? That was kind of an emergency situation.

No, Burt was added because Jean Marc Pelletier went pro after his sophomore season. What you're remembering is the fact that he didn't play at all until Elliott was hurt late in the '98 season.

Wasn't Burt's first action in relief during a blowout loss at Yale? I was at that game and I'm pretty sure I remember him standing in the crease, nervous and unsteady, looking like a newborn foal.

Blowout loss at Yale? There was no game in New Haven that year.

Burt played the second half of the game that didn't happen and gave up 7 goals on 25 shots:
[www.elynah.com]
That was the only non-exhibition action he saw that season until the game at Harvard when Elliott was hurt.

IIRC, he finished that season with the relief win at Lynah East followed by six straight one-goal losses (including on the last night of the RS when SLU pulled their goalie in overtime).

Brandon Thomas's IJ article on Garman's leaving. Some interesting quotes:

Garman told the coaching staff of his decision after the season ended, coach Mike Schafer said, catching the program by surprise.

"It was at the season-ending meeting that Mike expressed that he was only a few credits short of graduating," Schafer said. "He talked with his family and felt that it was an opportunity to move on."

Ivy League rules stipulate that student-athletes are not eligible to compete as graduate students.

Garman becomes the second Cornell player to leave despite having an optional year of eligibility remaining to play next season. Forward Jordan Kary is the other, though his decision was known throughout the season.

"It caught us off guard," Schafer said of Garman's decision. "Jordan Kary let us know in the fall. So it's just one of those situations that, for us as a program, it's really left us behind the eight-ball to find another goaltender."

Seems like Garman could have told them sooner about how close to graduating he was, or the staff should be following their students more closely. I suspect, as I'm assuming he had good grades, that they don't worry about students like him, focusing on the borderline ones. But what are his options? If he only needs a few credits, can a student stay in school forever, even if he has more than enough credits? I know I had more than enough and no one said anything, so I decided to make my last semester easy and take the minimum. But does anyone know the rules about how long you can stay, once you've satisfied all criteria?

You know, one would think that he could stick around and take grad classes while still technically being a "senior" and then matriculate at the end of next year. But that would require (1) that he wants to go to grad school, something I wouldn't wish on anybody; (2) that he wants to go to grad school at Cornell, which may not be the best choice in his particular discipline; (3) that his discipline is one in which you would normally have to pay for your master's, otherwise he'd be perhaps (again) giving up money; and (4) some pretty significant collusion on the part of a Cornell department and/or college.

What does it say that the last one is the one that I figure wouldn't happen?

Jim Hyla
But does anyone know the rules about how long you can stay, once you've satisfied all criteria?

My situation may shed a little light on that. I was planning to finish in 7 semesters (AP credit), then start an MEng in my 8th semester. However, I had a outside scholarship that was paying toward my undergrad tuition. The engineering office said that if I completed all my undergrad requirements in 7 semesters, I could no longer register as an undergrad for my 8th semester, which would cause me to lose the scholarship money. Therefore, I had to be sure to leave one undergrad course remaining, so that I could technically stay registered as an undergrad. Of course, since I didn't know this too far ahead of time, I had already taken all my easy undergrad electives, so I had to reserve a senior-level engineering course. That course, plus the 15 highly technical graduate courses I needed towards my MEng made for an absolutely BRUTAL 2nd semester senior year...

Also note that after 7 semesters, I did have enough raw credits to graduate - in order to avoid graduating early, I had to be sure to leave a required course unfilled. Presumably, athletes with lots of credits who want to maintain Ivy League eligibility would have to play the same game - rack up all the credits you want, but don't fulfill all the required courses.

Random related question. If you graduate after three years and want to go to grad school elsewhere can you use your fourth year of eligibility immediately or would you need to sit out a year? Normally transfers require a year wait but IMO there ought to be an exception for graduating.

[boards.basketball-u.com]
NCAA proposal 2005-54: A student-athlete who earns an undergraduate degree in four years but still has one year of eligibility remaining can transfer into another college's graduate school and finish his or her playing career there immediately without having to sit out a year.

There was discussion about this on the basketball board relating to a Penn player Dan Monckton who lost one year on a redshirt and graduated in 4 years

Two Yale lacrosse players, the face-off specialist Killaugher from a couple years ago, and an attackman, Hunt did this at Maryland and Loyola, I think.

Good.

Maybe it hasn't happened in hockey because there's so much opportunity to go pro. A kid who finishes early and is a good enough player to land a spot on another team will probably just go pro.

It says that there are four possible options out there all around 20 years old... any speculation to who those options are?

TimV
Two Yale lacrosse players, the face-off specialist Killaugher from a couple years ago, and an attackman, Hunt did this at Maryland and Loyola, I think.

Zack Greer did that too, finished his undergrad at Duke in four years and then played his fifth year of eligibility for Bryant while enrolled as a grad student without having to skip a year.

More by Brandon Thomas on Garman leaving.

KeithK
Random related question. If you graduate after three years and want to go to grad school elsewhere can you use your fourth year of eligibility immediately or would you need to sit out a year? Normally transfers require a year wait but IMO there ought to be an exception for graduating.

Cornell wrestlers have used their final year of eligibility while in grad school somewhere else. Tyler Shovlin went to UNC-Greensboro and I think there was one other in the recent past.

will he go pro or might he do enroll in another school after grad?