Nash injury confirmation

From InsideCollegehockey.com

"as standout sophomore Brendon Nash will miss the first three months of the season due to injury. Nash was named to the preseason all-league team by ECAC Hockey coaches and will be missed in the Big Red defense corps".


For the doubters, here is the link:

[www.insidecollegehockey.com]

So, did the coaches simply not know about Nash's injury before voting on the pre-season all-ECAC team? Or do they think that Brendon is so good as a sophomore that he will be one of the top two defensemen in the league eve after starting in January? I'm betting on the former but fervently hoping that it's the latter (and that they're right).

I think Nash's presence on that list says less about him and more about the absence of high quality upperclassmen defensemen in the league.

That is an awfully big jump.

This isn't the first time Mike has not been truthful about a serious injury that affects significant playing time.

Will Nash be missed? Absolutely. This is no simple miniscus tear.

That is 7-8 months for recovery. That is not a good sign. I first compared this to Duante Cullpepper's injury. It worked out for him or at least it seems like it has, but it took 2 years for him to be fully ready to play. Hopefully Nash doesn't nearly the same type of timeline.

Well, I guess this means that Riley is going to North Dakota.

Nope.

WHL

KeithK
So, did the coaches simply not know about Nash's injury before voting on the pre-season all-ECAC team? Or do they think that Brendon is so good as a sophomore that he will be one of the top two defensemen in the league eve after starting in January? I'm betting on the former but fervently hoping that it's the latter (and that they're right).

I think probably the coaches are just not really paying too much attention to what's going on with the other teams, but rather are focusing on their own.

Of course, I also believe Nash has more talent in one (injured) leg than Man-Beast Alex Biega has in his whole body.

DILLIGAF
Nope.

WHL

Riiiiiiight he's going to leave Cornell and go to the WHL two weeks before the season starts.

I would think that Riley would be well aware of the condition of his older brother and that if he hasn't jumped ship yet, it won't happen this year. But hey, what do I know... I'm a guy who has gotten annoyed at the lack of clouds in California after 4 years in Ithaca... that has to qualify me for some sort of insanity plea

That's a shame, Brendon looked fine last weekend at the hockey line, I was hoping that meant he was fit, I guess not.


However, seeing as Brendon is still here on campus going to classes and generally being around, I don't see why his injury would encourage Riley to leave. He's still going to school with his older brother, even if he won't be able to play with him for a few months.

I can't speak for ugarte, but my response was a bit factitious. I think his might have been as well.

Yeah, I know, I responded from the hip without really thinking.

Honestly Dilligaf, I owe you an apology. While I still think it's clear that you have an anti-mike agenda that leads you to say outrageous things (Shremp, a two way player?!) this makes two time that you've been right, about Romano and about Brendon. I think it's alittle absurd that you go out of your way to blame mike for everything that unfortunate that happens, but I must give credit where credit is due.

I talked to Brendan on the hockey line, and he told me that he has played almost no organized hockey with his brother since they are two years separated...i.e., we shouldn't expect Abbott-like chemistry between the two of them and I don't think either of them are particularly anxious to play together.

I'm quite sure it was, but I'm also quite sure he knows how to spell "sarcasm."

DILLIGAF
This isn't the first time Mike has not been truthful about a serious injury that affects significant playing time.

Where exactly did Coach Mike lie? I'd like to see some sort of quote. Do you have proof that he called up his buddies and told them to vote for Nash because he's fit as a viola? And was it this lie that affects (sic) playing time or the injury?

not only that, but since when do coaches ever reveal the truth about the health of their players? Injuries are always closely guarded, this isn't unique to Cornell, the ECAC, college hockey, or even hockey as a sport.
How many times have you heard the term 'lower body injury'? Unless a team is forced to divulge this sort of information (ala the NFL's mandated injury report) they're not going too. The less an opposing team knows about the health of your players the less they can game plan.

Evil:

You raise an interesting point and one that drives me crazy. The new trend with colleges is to hide behind the banner of "medical privacy" in order to not discuss / fully disclose an injury to an athlete. That is fine for you or me, but for a varsity athlete it is not, especially for those schools that are scholarship schools.

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

Not to take anything away from Nash, but had his status been known prior, would he have been given the preseason nod? Likely not.

This isn't just a Cornell or Mike problem. It is a NCAA hockey problem. There should be a NCAA wide policy on the reporting and disclosure of injury and status due to injury.

The thing is that many of these players are aspiring pro prospects. I know last year I heard from a friend, who was also friends with the team, about injuries to certain players and asked not to repeat the information because these players had careers in front of them. What if a player is looking to get signed at the end of the year and it comes out that the player suffered an injury during the year that could discourage NHL teams from inking him? Is it the place of the coaching staff to reveal this information and cost that player a professional contract?

DILLIGAF

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

People bet on NCAA football. Nobody bets on NCAA hockey, so nobody really cares about injuries being disclosed, so I don't see why it should be required.

Other than a nice feather in his (and Cornell's) cap, though, who cares that he got the preseason nod? I don't think student-athletes should be required to sign away their federal privacy rights at the door just because they play a sport. It sets a very uncomfortable precedent.

DILLIGAF
Evil:

You raise an interesting point and one that drives me crazy. The new trend with colleges is to hide behind the banner of "medical privacy" in order to not discuss / fully disclose an injury to an athlete. That is fine for you or me, but for a varsity athlete it is not, especially for those schools that are scholarship schools.

This isn't just a Cornell or Mike problem. It is a NCAA hockey problem. There should be a NCAA wide policy on the reporting and disclosure of injury and status due to injury.

I don't see why a student, athlete or not has to give up his rights. Even if you get a scholarship, you are still a student and above all a person living in the US and under US laws. If we don't get to satisfy our prurient interests, so be it. To ask all of them to sign away their rights just to play a sport, well it just doesn't seem right to me. I wrote a lot more, but couldn't agree more with Beeeej:

Beeeej
I don't think student-athletes should be required to sign away their federal privacy rights at the door just because they play a sport. It sets a very uncomfortable precedent.

God, a doctor agreeing with a lawyer, what will happen next?

Beeeej
I'm quite sure it was, but I'm also quite sure he knows how to spell "sarcasm."

Or just use an emoticon. After all, Age has supplied us with easy access and that is what they are for.

Jim Hyla

Beeeej
I'm quite sure it was, but I'm also quite sure he knows how to spell "sarcasm."

Or just use an emoticon. After all, Age has supplied us with easy access and that is what they are for.

Emoticons are the devil.

ugarte

Jim Hyla

Beeeej
I'm quite sure it was, but I'm also quite sure he knows how to spell "sarcasm."

Or just use an emoticon. After all, Age has supplied us with easy access and that is what they are for.

Emoticons are the devil.

evilnaturedrobot
The thing is that many of these players are aspiring pro prospects. I know last year I heard from a friend, who was also friends with the team, about injuries to certain players and asked not to repeat the information because these players had careers in front of them. What if a player is looking to get signed at the end of the year and it comes out that the player suffered an injury during the year that could discourage NHL teams from inking him? Is it the place of the coaching staff to reveal this information and cost that player a professional contract?

It seems to me that it would be at least borderline fraud to conceal an injury while negotiating and signing a contract where performance is dependent on physical fitness. IANAL so maybe it's not fraud under current laws but it's at least dishonest. I would imagine that teams all require a physical before finalizing a contract and if I were the GM I would ask for relevant medical history as well.

In Nash's case there really is no reason to try to conceal this injury. If a player misses half of a season it's obvious that there is some sort of serious injury. Not talking about it isn't going to prevent pro teams from knowing about it.

Then again, there's no reason Nash should have run to the rooftops and shouted to the world that he was hurt over the summer. It's not really relevant information for the world at large until it's hockey season (i.e. now).

KeithK
IANAL

Sometimes it's just better to spell things out.

Josh '99

icon_twisted.gif

If you didn't do it, I was going to myself.

KeithK

evilnaturedrobot
The thing is that many of these players are aspiring pro prospects. I know last year I heard from a friend, who was also friends with the team, about injuries to certain players and asked not to repeat the information because these players had careers in front of them. What if a player is looking to get signed at the end of the year and it comes out that the player suffered an injury during the year that could discourage NHL teams from inking him? Is it the place of the coaching staff to reveal this information and cost that player a professional contract?

It seems to me that it would be at least borderline fraud to conceal an injury while negotiating and signing a contract where performance is dependent on physical fitness. IANAL so maybe it's not fraud under current laws but it's at least dishonest. I would imagine that teams all require a physical before finalizing a contract and if I were the GM I would ask for relevant medical history as well.

Never did I say anything about concealing an injury during contract negotiations, but rather during the season. Any injury, even if it's been fully recovered from, could potentially hurt the chances of a player being signed. You have to remember that most of these guys are late round draft picks and borderline prospects, NHL teams don't need much to cross them off the list and move on.
And I'm sure that full physicals are performed, perhaps they find something perhaps they don't, but I don't see it as the coaching staff's job to announce to the world that: "Player X had Y injury a year ago, missed a game and then took a cortisone shot and played through it." Is this dishonest? Yes, a little, but I see it as the player's choice to reveal this information, as it is he that will ultimately effected by it. This is a living we're talking about, I can certainly understand why a pro prospect would want to keep some of this stuff under wraps.

You're right that in Nash's case their is very little point in hiding the information at this point, but I know he was at least looked at during last summer's draft. Ultimately he was not taken, but revealing this injury probably would have destroyed any chance that he had. It's something to consider.

NHL teams may not require a physical before finalizing a contract, but when they don't, I think they for damn sure make the finalized contract contingent on a physical.

Absolutely they do. My point is not that there are massive injuries being concealed here, merely that the player would prefer to reveal as little information as possible about his injury history. I think that's understandable.

Section A Banshee

KeithK
IANAL

Sometimes it's just better to spell things out.

Sorry. I post on some legal oriented sites where I Am Not A Lawyer is well known shorthand.

DILLIGAF
Evil:

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

Why? Who gives a damn about injuries except your opponent? Why would you want to give your opponent the information?

marty

DILLIGAF
Evil:

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

Why? Who gives a damn about injuries except your opponent? Why would you want to give your opponent the information?

Fans care about injuries. Even aside from gambling, I have a legitimate interest in knowing how well my team can be expected to perform or why a player may not have performed up to expectations. Especially when I am paying money to watch the event and my dollars (collectively) are to a large degree paying for the whole enterprise.

How this interest stacks up against a player's privacy interest is left to the reader to decide.

KeithK

marty

DILLIGAF
Evil:

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

Why? Who gives a damn about injuries except your opponent? Why would you want to give your opponent the information?

Fans care about injuries. Even aside from gambling, I have a legitimate interest in knowing how well my team can be expected to perform or why a player may not have performed up to expectations. Especially when I am paying money to watch the event and my dollars (collectively) are to a large degree paying for the whole enterprise.

How this interest stacks up against a player's privacy interest is left to the reader to decide.

Well I know where you stand, and I hope you know where I stand. I enjoy hockey, some say I live it. Let's say no one else in my office was trying for tickets on the internet this past Wed.. However, I don't think it's my God given right to know about a student's health history just because I pay a few bucks to go to a game; and I glad the government finally had the good sense to make a law about it. God, there I go agreeing with lawyers again. Twice in one day, somebody shoot me.

Jim Hyla
Well I know where you stand, and I hope you know where I stand. I enjoy hockey, some say I live it. Let's say no one else in my office was trying for tickets on the internet this past Wed.. However, I don't think it's my God given right to know about a student's health history just because I pay a few bucks to go to a game; and I glad the government finally had the good sense to make a law about it. God, there I go agreeing with lawyers again. Twice in one day, somebody shoot me.

I'm not quite as anti-privacy as my posts sometimes indicate and I certainly don't think that paying for a ticket gives me a right to know this stuff, just a legitimate interest. It's just that posts/opinions that are more or less absolutist on the privacy issue tend to drive me toward the other side, at least for the duration of the argument.

From a moral standpoint is there a difference between public disclosure of a injuries (e.g. broken bone, torn tendon) and disclosure of medical facts like STD's or mental illness? It's my sense that there is because of the different reactions that people will likely have. Now it may be an absolutist, bright line rule is the only kind that makes sense in practice.

My quick and worthless two cents (lots of inflation in my economy).

First, why'd we have to drag money into this? Fans have the "right" to care about their team even if it can't be tied to GDP. Buying a ticket doesn't buy you that right, and not buying one doesn't nix it. People have a right to want to know things related to things that interest them.

Of course, that doesn't mean they have a right to know them -- just the right to want to. So far I think we're all in agreement, except that I reject this notion that paying money is somehow a part of that argument.

As for disclosure, I agree with Keith on this. A student athlete is in part a public figure, and public figures enjoy fewer privacy rights than do the rest of us. Such is the price of fame. It's a sliding scale, but I agree that injuries like broken bones -- standard sport-related wear and tear -- should be okay to discuss.

Thirdly, I've also seen IANAL before, and I don't frequent any legal forums other than OffseasonELF(tm).

Medical facts are medical facts, pure and simple. There are a few issues such as HIV, that carry special weight, but as far as I'm concerned, and I think the law is on my side, the rest is private medical information. It should remain that way for all Americans, public or private. Yes, we have a right to know something about our leaders, but our athletes, come on. I might have a different view because I see this all the time, but to me privacy is right up there with an independent judiciary (there I go with the lawyers again) and press.

KeithK

marty

DILLIGAF
Evil:

NCAA football is a little better, injury reports are given on a weekly basis and if a player is questionable or out for the next game it and the injury is disclosed. Hockey should be the same.

Why? Who gives a damn about injuries except your opponent? Why would you want to give your opponent the information?

Fans care about injuries. Even aside from gambling, I have a legitimate interest in knowing how well my team can be expected to perform or why a player may not have performed up to expectations. Especially when I am paying money to watch the event and my dollars (collectively) are to a large degree paying for the whole enterprise.

How this interest stacks up against a player's privacy interest is left to the reader to decide.

So if mighty Topher Scott has a severely bruised lat and the trainers tape him up and get him ready to play through it, you want to know about his injury. If I'm a goon from say RIP (think of the past - not the current Engineers), I might want to know about it to if I can get him into a corner and rip into him with a cheap shot.

But your interest in knowing (because you bought a ticket?) should supercede Topher's interest in his personal health and the team's interest in having a more rather than less healthy player. ????

If you want to take the disclosure issue to the other extreme you could say that the players are not legally required to disclose their physical condition, injuries etc to the coaching staff either. That being said, there is an element of "need-to-know" that the coaches/teammates have and we don't.

(insert gratuitous emoticon here)

[ithacajournal.com]

Nash suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in an off-ice accident in April, and has been rehabilitating ever since the resulting surgery. The original timeframe for his return was set in the vicinity of January, though coach Mike Schafer has said Nash is ahead of schedule.

That was evident when Nash was skating on his own during captains' practices in early October. Then he began skating with the team in practices leading up to last week's exhibitions while donning a blue no-contact jersey. All of the signs add up to a possible return as early as November.

I hope they don't rush him. I'm sure he's been working hard on it, but an ACL reconstruction isn't something to mess with.

IJ
Until then, and even afterward, the key to the defense's success may very well come from the forwards. The Cornell system, like many others nowadays, relies heavily on the forwards' backcheck to pick up the late attacker or help steer the oncoming forward toward the boards. That support wasn't always there last season.

“I thought one of the problems was we had too many guys last year that thought they were offensive guys and not enough guys who knew their role,” Schafer said.

I wonder who he could be talking about? As I posted before, they certainly looked much more like our successful teams of old, what with the physical play.

Said Scrivens: “Brendon's a great player. But in the end, he's just one player. It's a team game. We'll deal with it.”

Well said.

Jim Hyla
Well said.

Yep. There's no reason to rush Brendon back into the lineup. This isn't an NCAA challenger team, so the November and December games aren't make or break. This is a team that needs to digest its young talent and adapt to its new (old) style of play, improve every month, and set its sights on February and March.

I totally agree. There is no reason to rush him back. Even take a medical redshirt if you have to and come back next season fully rehabbed.

DILLIGAF
I totally agree. There is no reason to rush him back. Even take a medical redshirt if you have to and come back next season fully rehabbed.

And miss the chance to play with his brother?

ugarte

DILLIGAF
I totally agree. There is no reason to rush him back. Even take a medical redshirt if you have to and come back next season fully rehabbed.

And miss the chance to play with his brother?

ZING!!!

krose

ugarte

DILLIGAF
I totally agree. There is no reason to rush him back. Even take a medical redshirt if you have to and come back next season fully rehabbed.

And miss the chance to play with his brother?

ZING!!!

That was a good one

Well done.....

Seriously though, don't rush a bad knee injury. It never has a positive outcome.

DILLIGAF
Well done.....

Seriously though, don't rush a bad knee injury. It never has a positive outcome.

MD or Nurse Practioner?

marty

DILLIGAF
Well done.....

Seriously though, don't rush a bad knee injury. It never has a positive outcome.

MD or Nurse Practioner?

Or Philadelphia Eagles fan?

stayed at a holiday inn last night

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

Al DeFlorio

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

I continue to be amazed that Holiday Inn has somehow sped up the process of sleep. Holiday Inn Express: Where you can get a full-night's sleep in 2 hours.

RichH

Al DeFlorio

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

I continue to be amazed that Holiday Inn has somehow sped up the process of sleep. Holiday Inn Express: Where you can get a full-night's sleep in 2 hours.

I believe it goes without saying that Chuck Norris can get a full night's sleep in 2 hours WITHOUT staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

RichH

Al DeFlorio

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

I continue to be amazed that Holiday Inn has somehow sped up the process of sleep. Holiday Inn Express: Where you can get a full-night's sleep in 2 hours.

If Steven Wright said that, we'd be rolling the aisles and looking for a hidden meaning. Where has he been lately? His upcoming tour dates list shows where he's been but not where he'll be, which is probably a good liner for him.

billhoward

RichH

Al DeFlorio

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

I continue to be amazed that Holiday Inn has somehow sped up the process of sleep. Holiday Inn Express: Where you can get a full-night's sleep in 2 hours.

If Steven Wright said that, we'd be rolling the aisles and looking for a hidden meaning. Where has he been lately? His upcoming tour dates list shows where he's been but not where he'll be, which is probably a good liner for him.

In 2006 he had a new special on Comedy Central (available on DVD) and earlier this year he put out his first new album in over 15 years. He is still performing a lot but we need to get our "Alumni in the Pros" people to tell his webmaster that it is November.

Josh '99

RichH

Al DeFlorio

KenP
stayed at a holiday inn last night

Sorry. Only works if it's a Holiday Inn Express.

I continue to be amazed that Holiday Inn has somehow sped up the process of sleep. Holiday Inn Express: Where you can get a full-night's sleep in 2 hours.

I believe it goes without saying that Chuck Norris can get a full night's sleep in 2 hours WITHOUT staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

In Soviet Russia, Holiday Inn Expresses you.

neither, but very closely aquainted with my knee doc as I have btdt with 3 knee ops. My advice is to avoid them at all costs, but if you cannot, don't rush them back. It only leads to trouble.