hockey team summer recreation

I'm not so sure Schafer will be happy to find out that at least three of his players were swimming in the Fall Creek "death trap" a week after the tragic death of a visiting graduate student. [www.theithacajournal.com]

Swim, Topher, Swim!

Yeah... we've lost enough to the NHL.
Joking aside, those gorges are mean. I slipped on a rock and landed on my back. Granted it's obviously better than drowning, but still dangerous.

Drinking at Dunbar's is a much safer activity.

Is swimming in the gorge illegal now or just reportedly dangerous?

The story mentions shopping carts and debris in the gorge -- does that confuse or trap swimmers? If so, one of the roadside cleanup honor societies ought to clear out the gorge. It also mentions different water flow levels and if they're measured somewhere in the gorge, it wouldn't be too hard to have a live signboard (like the ones that tell your speed on the highway) that lists water flow rates and what it means. At least when you go under and don't come up, you know you shouldn't have ignored the blinking red "dangerous conditions" indicator.

I guess one should be nervous about letting the defensemen go in the gorge. We're okay on forwards.

Does anyone know: Is it still possible to swim in the reservoir, meaning you can swim there though illegal, and have have modest chances of getting cited?

Not sure about the legality of swimming in the gorges. As for reservoir swimming do mean Beebe lake or one of the other impoundments?

I swam in Beebe lake 2 years ago down by the dam, and found to my disgust that it is almost entirely silted in. Legal or not, it should not be done by anything other than a dog. Further up by the stone bridge i was around people who were jumping, and i may or not have been participating. An officer of the Cornell law arrived when people were wet and with towels but with no one in the water no tickets were issued. It should be said the officer seemed rather unamused i suspect he would have done something if people were caught in the act.

So this is the second person to drown there in the past 20 years? Out of how many swimmers?

jtwcornell91
So this is the second person to drown there in the past 20 years? Out of how many swimmers?

3 people have died in the last 2 weeks (well since the last guy died)

[Q]
As of early this week, a tour of Journal headlines shows three people dead in area gorges in three separate incidents — over a span of just 11 days in August.
[/Q]

[www.ithacajournal.com]

So yes..it is dangerous. I've been down to the Fall Creek gorge a few times, once after it rained heavily a few times. We didnt get in the water that time, as the current was VERY strong. Its not hard to imagine how someone, even if they were a very good swimmer/strong, could get trapped in these currents

There are plenty of other, safer, places to swim in town including a couple places along Six Mile Creek (near the suspension bridge and the wildflower garden) and at Flat Rock near the Plantations. I'm not sure how much the reservoir is patrolled these days, but I always see cars parked in the area.

Frequently, highly athletic people die in these situations. They disregard the deaths of others, assuming they are more capable. They are more capable, but not remotely capable enough.

There's a sign at the top of the Grand Canyon, "People die every year attempting to hike to the canyon floor and back in one day. Most of them look like him," with a photo of studly, bullet-proof, climber dude.

It also has one of the most (unintentionally?) funny lines in warning sign history. On the list containing a half dozen safety tips (take a lot of water, etc), the final line is, "do not attempt to hike to the canyon floor and back in one day."

billhoward
Is swimming in the gorge illegal now or just reportedly dangerous?

Yes, it is now and has always been illegal to swim in all of the gorges, the reservior, Stewart Park (gross) etc. I have been kicked out of the gorge near the suspension bridge by the police more than once back in the day...

There is nowhere that it is actually legal to swim in the city limits that I can think of. There are public swimming areas at some of the state parks nearby(Buttermilk, Treman, Taughannock, for example).

If you don't see a lifegaurd and those little rope bouys, you should just assume it is illegal.

And people have been dying in the gorges, reservoir, etc at a typical rate of at least one person every few years or so. Both of the unfortunate deaths recently were after strong rain storms, when it is safest to just stay out of the gorges. The current is strong and there is weird debris that floats along. The other death was reportedly a suicide (non-student).


Public safety lesson for the day over,
L-J

Never mind swimming, you'd have to be nuts to try to use those sketchy paths down into the gorges after it's rained recently.

To cover an opposing viewpoint, the summer of '96 I spent in Ithaca and have many fond memories of swimming in the Fall Creek gorge below the suspension bridge. The water is heated to a very comfortable temperature by flowing in thin sheets over the rocks for the preceding quarter mile. Furthermore, there's a lot of fun to be had climbing underneath the short falls directly beneath the bridge, and jumping into the pool below it. Finally, the eye candy is hard to beat.

That said, if you kill yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself. There's risk and reward in nearly everything, and the key to enjoying life is managing the two in an way acceptable to you.

Cheers,
Kyle

I spent many afternoons under the suspension bridge after my freshman year of '90-'91. The gorge is a great place IF the water level is low. I never went swimming after any big rain storms. I can't remember for sure, but I think the water is usually only around ankle-deep in the summer in the spot where you can walk across to the flat rocks where everyone lays out. Anything approaching knee deep could knock someone off balance and possibly take them down the gorge. I remember hearing that, at some time, a woman was swept over the big falls at the bottom of the gorge when she got caught in the current.

One thing that I did that wasn't as bright was to jump off of the small but fairly high fall on the far side of the gorge. It doesn't hurt if you land in the foam and turbulence of the main fall and not in a flat spot. The problem is, there is a shelf that is only waste deep that you have to clear. At the end of the summer of 91', I heard someone became paralyzed and had to be rescued after not jumping far enough. I had already decided that my 5 jumps were enough by that point, but it made me nervous to think of what could have happened.

What realy amazes me is that noone ever got hurt when some of us would go down there drunk around 1 AM on the way home from parties. Some of my friends actually jumped off of the high fall. Even though I was drunk, I decided that there was too much risk of slipping and simply falling off trying it drunk and in the dark. I stuck with climbing around on and in the main falls (Pretty cool place to hook up if you sneak into the little cave behind the fall )

cth95
... The problem is, there is a shelf that is only waste deep that you have to clear. ...

Talk about stepping in it.

Coop Summer I spent pretty much every afternoon in the gorge - the exceptions being the days before organic exams. The current was strong but not overpowering.

Of course that was in July and August. I'd imagine in spring it might be a bit more dangerous.

I spent the past four years fishing in almost all the local gorges. For Fall Creek, any flow above about 250 cfs makes it very difficult to cross the stream until you get into the flats down by the high school. The biggest problem is how slippery it gets with all the rock snot. Having come close to doing this myself, I'd imagine that a big problem is when people slip, hit their head, and become unconscious or disoriented and then drown. I almost always wore felt-bottomed or studded boots that really hold the rocks. That said, a lot has to do with common sense and planning out your movements before you make them.

It's really sad that things like this happen, but at the same time I think swimming in the gorges can be a very safe and important tradition at Cornell. I think instead of trying to stop people from recreation in the gorges, maybe signs with safety tips would do more good. I know I would be pretty upset if I was told to get out of the gorges while fishing, or swimming for that matter.

I think a lot of people don't know that Fall Creek actually drains a lot of land, and it sometimes takes a couple days after peak rainfall for the creek to crest. It's easy to overlook a raging river when its 90 degrees and sunny out. So I'm not really sure what can be done, I definitely want to continue using the gorges for my safe enjoyment, but I'm not sure what can be done to help those who don't spend a good number of their days in or around the gorges to be safe.

Willy '06
I think instead of trying to stop people from recreation in the gorges, maybe signs with safety tips would do more good. I know I would be pretty upset if I was told to get out of the gorges while fishing, or swimming for that matter.

Yeah, but you're forgetting a word that's pretty big these days: Liability. Signs with safety tips on it could be seen as a signal that the town/university is condoning such activities that have been outlined here as being dangerous (and possibly illegal. You may get upset and get your feelings hurt, but to them, being mean and telling you to leave is preferable to having you die and someone suing them as a result.

RichH

Willy '06
I think instead of trying to stop people from recreation in the gorges, maybe signs with safety tips would do more good. I know I would be pretty upset if I was told to get out of the gorges while fishing, or swimming for that matter.

Yeah, but you're forgetting a word that's pretty big these days: Liability. Signs with safety tips on it could be seen as a signal that the town/university is condoning such activities that have been outlined here as being dangerous (and possibly illegal. You may get upset and get your feelings hurt, but to them, being mean and telling you to leave is preferable to having you die and someone suing them as a result.

Rich is right. But that points to a clear course of action. We should work to pass laws that explicitly limits liability in this type of situation. If you go swimming in the gorge after a rainstorm and drown it's your fault. It sucks, but your family shouldn't have the option of a lawsuit, especially on the extremely flimsy argument that safety tips indicate that the local authorities are taking responsibility for your actions.

Life is full of risks. Embrace that fact and learn to manage risk versus reward. Don't blame someone else.

Better yet, sell the gorge to me. I will allow you to swim in it, for a very small fee, if you sign a waiver absolving me of all liability if you injure or kill yourself. I'll even make the more inaccessible parts of it clothing-optional for all you horny little undergrads, for a modestly higher fee, if you sign a waiver absolving me of all liability if you impregnate or embarrass yourself.

Trotsky
if you impregnate...yourself.

Forget liability; I would think you could make money off this.

Kyle