Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by Bengy
Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Bengy (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: July 30, 2004 02:32PM
who will be the top freshmen this year... 
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: July 30, 2004 04:19PM
The most hyped (and highest drafted) is Ray Sawada. That's probably a good first guess.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: bengy (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: July 30, 2004 10:07PM
what impact will both defensement have on the P.P, concidering schafer says they both ran their own powerplay last season
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: mikeiker (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 03, 2004 01:14PM
krantz and pokulok should bring tremendous upsides to the team, the question is , how long while it take them to adapt to the game and how they can contribute...
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: August 04, 2004 01:45AM
I'm most interested in seeing what Pokuluk is like. Coming out of Notre Dame in Saskatchewan, we haven't heard much about him. But he is 6'5, 220 at age 18 with decent offensive numbers. I don't know much about him, but he could end up being the best of the bunch.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: DURO (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 04, 2004 11:07AM
Pokulok broke his wrist at the end of last season with 3 games left in the regular season, he missed the playoffs and opted out of the draft, thats what i read on www.shjl.com site, the saskatchewan league
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: calgARI '07 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: August 04, 2004 11:23AM
I was under the impression that he wasn't eligible for this year's draft considering he wasn't ranked by CSB or CSS. A kid his age with his size would have NHL scouts drooling no matter his ability.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: DURO (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 04, 2004 12:58PM
Pokulok decided to opt out of the draft, although he would have been drafted, from what i hear he decided to only wait till next year's draft which would probably get him drafted in lower rounds if he has a good year. A player drafted in the top 1-2-3 rounds has much more barganing power when it comes to contract signings than a player drafted 7-8-9. And much more scouts will be able to see him play in lynah rink rather than in Wilcox Saskatchewan... Smart move
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: August 04, 2004 01:56PM
I don't get it.
1. How many shots at the draft does a player have before he's an undrafted free agent?
2. If a player can just opt out, why didn't Eric "I hate French Canada" Lindros just opt out and save himself all the Quebecois madness?
1. How many shots at the draft does a player have before he's an undrafted free agent?
2. If a player can just opt out, why didn't Eric "I hate French Canada" Lindros just opt out and save himself all the Quebecois madness?
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: DURO (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 04, 2004 02:29PM
- An 18 year old : may decide not to opt into the draft, but must sign the opt-in sheet if he wants to enter.
- A 19 year old is automaticaly entered in the draft without signing the opt-in sheet.
- Most players enter at the age of 18 but some players, decide to not opt into the draft at 18 and have better chances of getting drafted earlier in the next draft, having a year of college under their belt
- A 19 year old is automaticaly entered in the draft without signing the opt-in sheet.
- Most players enter at the age of 18 but some players, decide to not opt into the draft at 18 and have better chances of getting drafted earlier in the next draft, having a year of college under their belt
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: August 04, 2004 02:42PM
Aha.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Duro (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 06, 2004 12:25PM
Cant wait to see what the freshmen are going to look like this year...
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Avash (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date: August 07, 2004 07:41PM
[Q]Duro Wrote:
Cant wait to see what the freshmen are going to look like this year... [/q]
Me neither.
.......oh, you're talking about the freshmen hockey players; nevermind
Cant wait to see what the freshmen are going to look like this year... [/q]
Me neither.
.......oh, you're talking about the freshmen hockey players; nevermind
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Bengy (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 08, 2004 11:09PM
What looks as though our new incomers are really talented, some might surprise us and make early impacts...... our D will be so good...
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: KyleLL (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 14, 2004 11:40AM
who knows when we see these guys skate for the first time????? 
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 14, 2004 11:48AM
Who did we-all think the top freshman were last year and was it proved out? Who thought McKee would grab the starting job? Was Bitz a pleasant surprise or were there ultra-high expectations that he didn't quite meet?
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: CU Fan (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: August 14, 2004 01:29PM
well, McCutcheon was supposed to be one of the top 2 recruits, and that certainly didn't pan ouit.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 14, 2004 02:06PM
There probably is a hope against hope that the offspring will be as talented as the father. John Hughes' kid turned out to be a pretty good skater, but not much of a hockey player.
Let's hope Dave Peace's ('75) boy won't turn into a superstar at RPI.
Let's hope Dave Peace's ('75) boy won't turn into a superstar at RPI.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.no.no.cox.net)
Date: August 14, 2004 03:02PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
John Hughes' kid turned out to be a pretty good skater, but not much of a hockey player.[/q]
I didn't realize she'd played hockey.
John Hughes' kid turned out to be a pretty good skater, but not much of a hockey player.[/q]
I didn't realize she'd played hockey.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: KyleLL (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 14, 2004 03:23PM
For sure this freshmen class has very expectations...
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: CUlater 89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: August 16, 2004 09:44AM
I'm sorry but drawing a conclusion after just one season as to whether recruits have panned out is ridiculous. Other than McKee, I don't think any of the freshmen were being counted on to lead the team at their positions.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: ugarte (---.ny325.east.verizon.net)
Date: August 16, 2004 01:19PM
[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:
I'm sorry but drawing a conclusion after just one season as to whether recruits have panned out is ridiculous. Other than McKee, I don't think any of the freshmen were being counted on to lead the team at their positions.
[/q]
Hear, hear. I was thinking the exact same thing. I wasn't counting on McCutcheon to save the program his first year. Wait until the rotation is set before counting out anyone.
I'm sorry but drawing a conclusion after just one season as to whether recruits have panned out is ridiculous. Other than McKee, I don't think any of the freshmen were being counted on to lead the team at their positions.
[/q]
Hear, hear. I was thinking the exact same thing. I wasn't counting on McCutcheon to save the program his first year. Wait until the rotation is set before counting out anyone.
___________________________
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Outlook for 04-05
Posted by: Steve M (---.fluor.com)
Date: August 17, 2004 01:54PM
For those following the team and the recruits closely, what do you think our chances of returning to the NCAA tourney next year are?
Re: Outlook for 04-05
Posted by: Robb (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: August 17, 2004 02:48PM
Forget the team and the recruits. One look at our non-conference schedule and you can tell that it's going to be iffy again this year. Last year, we finished 2nd in the league with 29 points. That's unlikely to go up by a significant amount, and the ECAC's RPI (the ratings index, not the school) will be crappy as usual. Our 7 non-conference games are Army, Sacred Heart, Michigan State (twice), Canisius, and two of SCSU, BC, and Maine. Best case scenario (with BC & Maine), those teams went 140-102-27 (.571) last year. Worst case (BC & SCSU) it was 125-110-28 (.528). Realistically, we need to play and beat both BC and Maine to flip as many HEA comparisons our way as possible on the common opponents criteria. Even a split would probably help - most HEA teams won't go .500 against those two next year. Same can be said for the MSU games - a must-split at the very least, and probably a must-sweep to have a shot at the NCAAs. Pretty tall order - our first road games and only our 5th and 6th regular season games of the year. Those games will be MSU's 9th and 10th games - only 4 more games, but nearly twice what we'll have played. On the other hand, they play Michigan twice the next weekend, so maybe they'll look past us - we can hope...
Bascially, we'll know by New Year's if we have to win the conference tournament or not. Hope the freshmen are ready to contribute in the first half of the year...
Bascially, we'll know by New Year's if we have to win the conference tournament or not. Hope the freshmen are ready to contribute in the first half of the year...
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: August 17, 2004 03:57PM
A team strong enough to qualify for the NCAA on their own is also one that should win in Albany. So I wouldn't worry unduly about NC schedule strength.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Robb (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: August 17, 2004 05:11PM
Sad but true. I wish the ECAC had enough strong teams that we could say, "We'll be strong enough to qualify for an NCAA bid, but probably won't win in Albany," instead (like the 4-6 place WCHA teams say today).
Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: Steve M (---.fluor.com)
Date: August 17, 2004 07:43PM
Last year we didn't have a very good NC schedule and we didn't play well in the NC games except the Everblades and still came close to getting an at large bid. This year's NC schedule looks a bit worse, but not too much worse than last year so it seems that if we put up a good record in NC games, say 5-2, by beating all the weaker teams and splitting with the better ones, we should qualify for an at large bid with a normally good finish in the ECAC RS, I agree that if we're good enough to get an at large bid we should be able to win the ECAC tourney, but anything can happen in a one and done playoff (see 02-03) or even in the QFs. Who would have predicted a loss to Clarkson at Lynah in a best of 3 series? So answering my own question, I think we can get an NCAA bid if were somewhat better than last year and really focus on winning the NC games.
My real question, then, is will this team be better than last year? Will the extra year of experience of the young players plus the contribution of the incoming freshmen be enough to compensate for the loss of Vesce and the other senior or two. I'd like to think the answer is yes, but would like to know what those closer to the program think.
My real question, then, is will this team be better than last year? Will the extra year of experience of the young players plus the contribution of the incoming freshmen be enough to compensate for the loss of Vesce and the other senior or two. I'd like to think the answer is yes, but would like to know what those closer to the program think.
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: August 17, 2004 10:43PM
Vesce was the team's MVP so he's a hard guy to replace, but he also was hurt whether he played or not. So, without being cruel to someone who was one of the best Cornell players of the past decade on a pound for pound basis, if Vesce was a factor in the second half, it was in some part psychological.
Thus, if the incoming freshmen halfway live up to the hype (some of which we may be generating ourselves), it seems as if Cornell is adding more talent than it loses, factoring in the improvements in the three returning classes.
Cornell could go all the way this year. To Albany, at least.
But as others on this thread pointed out, one-loss-and-you're-out playoffs determine champions, not necessarily best teams. Otherwise the title game two years ago would have been Cornell and Colorado College, this past year North Dakota and, hmm, maybe BC or Maine or ... .
Thus, if the incoming freshmen halfway live up to the hype (some of which we may be generating ourselves), it seems as if Cornell is adding more talent than it loses, factoring in the improvements in the three returning classes.
Cornell could go all the way this year. To Albany, at least.
But as others on this thread pointed out, one-loss-and-you're-out playoffs determine champions, not necessarily best teams. Otherwise the title game two years ago would have been Cornell and Colorado College, this past year North Dakota and, hmm, maybe BC or Maine or ... .
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: CUlater 89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: August 18, 2004 10:09AM
Whether we can get an at-large bid will also be subject to how other teams perform. For example, if we finish second in the league and lose in the ECAC semis, and the first place team, with a superior out of conference schedule/record also doesn't win the ECAC playoffs, that'll be one less at-large spot for which we might be eligible. The same rule applies to upsets in other conference tournaments.
As for the '04-'05 season, one of the biggest concerns is the loss of Vesce's faceoff skills. We suffered greatly while he was hurt, and without McRae to back him up, we had no one who could win faceoffs consistently. That's the situation we'll have coming into this season, although there is some hope that Topher Scott will be able to assume faceoff responsibilities. Still, he's only one guy.
As for the freshman, where is the hype coming from (other than some of the members of this board)? Have there been any rankings of freshmen classes around the country? For myself, I hear Davenport is very good, but if the best skater is Sawada, I'm a little concerned, since he seems more like a banger than a scorer (although he had 52 points in 54 games last season, the year before he was 7-17-24 in 36 games, with 155 penalty minutes; and even Hornby had 51 points in 58 games (with 154 penalty minutes) the year before he came to Cornell). The fact that he was drafted high I think is more of a reflection of his size and potential to play the NHL game.
For the team to be successful on a national level, goalscoring must come from Moulson, Hynes, Bitz, and someone else, on a fairly consistent basis. It could be one of the Abbotts, although I hear Schafer thinks of them as third-liners; it could be Knoepfli; or it could be one of the other sophomores.
As for the '04-'05 season, one of the biggest concerns is the loss of Vesce's faceoff skills. We suffered greatly while he was hurt, and without McRae to back him up, we had no one who could win faceoffs consistently. That's the situation we'll have coming into this season, although there is some hope that Topher Scott will be able to assume faceoff responsibilities. Still, he's only one guy.
As for the freshman, where is the hype coming from (other than some of the members of this board)? Have there been any rankings of freshmen classes around the country? For myself, I hear Davenport is very good, but if the best skater is Sawada, I'm a little concerned, since he seems more like a banger than a scorer (although he had 52 points in 54 games last season, the year before he was 7-17-24 in 36 games, with 155 penalty minutes; and even Hornby had 51 points in 58 games (with 154 penalty minutes) the year before he came to Cornell). The fact that he was drafted high I think is more of a reflection of his size and potential to play the NHL game.
For the team to be successful on a national level, goalscoring must come from Moulson, Hynes, Bitz, and someone else, on a fairly consistent basis. It could be one of the Abbotts, although I hear Schafer thinks of them as third-liners; it could be Knoepfli; or it could be one of the other sophomores.
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: Bengy (---.188-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
Date: August 18, 2004 04:05PM
And where do the defense jump into play in all this.... freshmen or not...
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 18, 2004 10:18PM
So is Cornell perhaps lacking the offensive megastar -- say had Chris Higgins matriculated here not Yale (Cornell was said to be the other school in the running) -- who you can turn to? Who is the last Cornell offensive player who was in the running for the Hobey Baker award?
Not that you can't win with great defense and decent offense (2002-2003) but if you are down a goal in the last four minutes, who's the rifleman you want out there for three of the last five shifts? They haven't all been skating for North Dakota, have they?
Maybe that would have been a healthy Ryan Vesce. Was his 7 points in the 7-0 November 2003 win at Princeton a fluke, or a sample of what he could do when he was at full strength?
Not that you can't win with great defense and decent offense (2002-2003) but if you are down a goal in the last four minutes, who's the rifleman you want out there for three of the last five shifts? They haven't all been skating for North Dakota, have they?
Maybe that would have been a healthy Ryan Vesce. Was his 7 points in the 7-0 November 2003 win at Princeton a fluke, or a sample of what he could do when he was at full strength?
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: August 19, 2004 10:25AM
I think Ryan's 7 point game was due to the lunar eclipse. Yeah, the eclipse.
Cornell really hasn't had a go-to sniper in a long time, but how would one even fit into Schafer's system? Those types of players don't tend to have wet dreams about cycling and board work, to say nothing of defensive responsibility. Spreading the offense over a few big guys who play the system but have soft hands and decent skills (like a Knoepfli) is probably better in the long run than putting all your eggs in one basket. And when there is a single clear sniper on a team, there is often a tendency for other players to sit back and rely on him for all the offense (unless you're the Rangers where you have a bunch of them and they're all sitting back waiting for someone else to score).
Big guys who can play a system, defense, and have great scoring skills, like a Higgins, are pretty hard to come by in college and like we saw with him, tend to leave early. It would sure be nice to have one to try though![=]](http://elf.elynah.com/smileys/=].gif "=]")
Cornell really hasn't had a go-to sniper in a long time, but how would one even fit into Schafer's system? Those types of players don't tend to have wet dreams about cycling and board work, to say nothing of defensive responsibility. Spreading the offense over a few big guys who play the system but have soft hands and decent skills (like a Knoepfli) is probably better in the long run than putting all your eggs in one basket. And when there is a single clear sniper on a team, there is often a tendency for other players to sit back and rely on him for all the offense (unless you're the Rangers where you have a bunch of them and they're all sitting back waiting for someone else to score).
Big guys who can play a system, defense, and have great scoring skills, like a Higgins, are pretty hard to come by in college and like we saw with him, tend to leave early. It would sure be nice to have one to try though
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: CUlater 89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: August 19, 2004 12:20PM
I agree with Cowbell Guy, plus clearly Schafer had success without a true sniper in 2002-2003 and 2001-2002, so I expect he wants to continue that approach (ideally, a four-line team).
On the other hand, if you can play tic-tac-toe with the puck and keep it away from the other team, that tends to work rather well (see, e.g. the Soviet/Unified Olympic hockey teams and Harvard in the '80s). I suspect that Harvard's focus in the coming years will be to return to that type of game, which could provide an interesting contrast to Schafer's style of play.
On the other hand, if you can play tic-tac-toe with the puck and keep it away from the other team, that tends to work rather well (see, e.g. the Soviet/Unified Olympic hockey teams and Harvard in the '80s). I suspect that Harvard's focus in the coming years will be to return to that type of game, which could provide an interesting contrast to Schafer's style of play.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: August 19, 2004 01:36PM
If Harvard under Donato goes back the Bill Cleary hockey, we are in for some classic power vs. finesse hockey.
Moulson and Hynes both look like they could be explosive scorers in a more offensive system. It could be we actually do have snipers, but that's what a sniper looks like playing Schafer (.638 conference, .623 overall) hockey.
Moulson and Hynes both look like they could be explosive scorers in a more offensive system. It could be we actually do have snipers, but that's what a sniper looks like playing Schafer (.638 conference, .623 overall) hockey.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: August 19, 2004 06:35PM
No complaints about Schafer's system and his winning percentage. It almost got Cornell to the finals two years ago. But when you're down by one goal in the closing three minutes, you're still only allowed 5+1 guys on the ice, and having 10 really talented teamworkers isn't going to cut it, except you can run three waves of equally talented people and hope one line gets lucky.
Having one mega-talent out there tends to panic the other team. They collapse two guys on him and somebody else comes open. Which gives the announcer chance to say, "What can you say - he really creates scoring opportunities and he just showed why here tonight, big time." And that's what sports is all about - hard work down on the field, and cliches up in the radio booth.
This is a long way back and a different sport, but wasn't Cornell's most explosive lacrosse years, McEneneany, French, and Levine, also the time when Cornell shut out the other side in an NCAA playoff game? Like 14-0 against George Washignton circa 1976.
Having one mega-talent out there tends to panic the other team. They collapse two guys on him and somebody else comes open. Which gives the announcer chance to say, "What can you say - he really creates scoring opportunities and he just showed why here tonight, big time." And that's what sports is all about - hard work down on the field, and cliches up in the radio booth.
This is a long way back and a different sport, but wasn't Cornell's most explosive lacrosse years, McEneneany, French, and Levine, also the time when Cornell shut out the other side in an NCAA playoff game? Like 14-0 against George Washignton circa 1976.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: August 19, 2004 06:52PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
This is a long way back and a different sport, but wasn't Cornell's most explosive lacrosse years, McEneneany, French, and Levine, also the time when Cornell shut out the other side in an NCAA playoff game? Like 14-0 against George Washignton circa 1976. [/q]
Yep. Washington & Lee.
This is a long way back and a different sport, but wasn't Cornell's most explosive lacrosse years, McEneneany, French, and Levine, also the time when Cornell shut out the other side in an NCAA playoff game? Like 14-0 against George Washignton circa 1976. [/q]
Yep. Washington & Lee.
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: DC83 (---.essd.northgrum.com)
Date: August 20, 2004 11:07AM
ALSO, IT WASN'T JUST ANY GAME IT WAS THE 1ST ROUND OF NCAA.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 20, 2004 03:44PM
Exactly so: This Cornell team had an awesome defense and awesome offense when it counted most, in the playoffs. Some of the discussion of the Schafer era -- and I have no complaints about the winning record; I just wish more of the wins came in March and April -- is that his regime teaches defense and team play and that allegedly makes it hard to attract great offensive players.
So for at least one season in one sport in Cornell's star-crossed athletic constellation, the offense (lacrosse, 1976) was perhaps the best the world had ever seen to that point and yet it wasn't to the detriment of the having a tremendous defense. In the first two games of the NCAA tournament, it give up 0 goals and then 5 goals (to Hopkins) before the 16-13 overtime shootout against a Maryland team that put up 22 goals in the semifinals. The Cornell offense was nicely consistent -- 14 goals, 13 goals, 16 goals.
And to further relate to my concern that Cornell didn't have the go-to guy in the final 5 minutes when we went down a goal to UNH (back to hockey here), when Cornell (1976 lacrosse) got into a situation where the defense did give up points, there was an offense that could step in. And then they came back and did it again the next year.
BH
Apropos of nothing else - it's still amazing to see Richie Moran out and rooting for Cornell even after he stepped aside or was asked to step aside in the previous decade. He was probably the sport's greatest coach in the 1970s and came close to winning it all in the late 1980s, twice, before fates turned from Cornell to Princeton and Syracuse. A lot of other guys would be bitter.
So for at least one season in one sport in Cornell's star-crossed athletic constellation, the offense (lacrosse, 1976) was perhaps the best the world had ever seen to that point and yet it wasn't to the detriment of the having a tremendous defense. In the first two games of the NCAA tournament, it give up 0 goals and then 5 goals (to Hopkins) before the 16-13 overtime shootout against a Maryland team that put up 22 goals in the semifinals. The Cornell offense was nicely consistent -- 14 goals, 13 goals, 16 goals.
And to further relate to my concern that Cornell didn't have the go-to guy in the final 5 minutes when we went down a goal to UNH (back to hockey here), when Cornell (1976 lacrosse) got into a situation where the defense did give up points, there was an offense that could step in. And then they came back and did it again the next year.
BH
Apropos of nothing else - it's still amazing to see Richie Moran out and rooting for Cornell even after he stepped aside or was asked to step aside in the previous decade. He was probably the sport's greatest coach in the 1970s and came close to winning it all in the late 1980s, twice, before fates turned from Cornell to Princeton and Syracuse. A lot of other guys would be bitter.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: August 20, 2004 03:57PM
Thoughtful post, Bill. Thanks. Couple of comments.
Lacrosse works a bit differently than hockey. While the attack contributes to team defense by "riding" while the other team tries to "clear," they don't play in the defensive half of the field. Likewise, the defense, other than taking the ball down the field very occasionally on a clear, don't really participate in the offensive end. In hockey, forwards can play an important role in the defensive end, too, and are a vital part of Mike's "system." I suspect Eamon would have been a demon at any position on the field, but the degree of defensive skill in your lacrosse "forwards" is much less significant to the outcome than in hockey.
That 1976 Cornell team had a second team and an honorable mention All-America defenseman, by the way, along with a first team and three honorable mention midfielders--who do play a key role in the defensive end.
Lacrosse works a bit differently than hockey. While the attack contributes to team defense by "riding" while the other team tries to "clear," they don't play in the defensive half of the field. Likewise, the defense, other than taking the ball down the field very occasionally on a clear, don't really participate in the offensive end. In hockey, forwards can play an important role in the defensive end, too, and are a vital part of Mike's "system." I suspect Eamon would have been a demon at any position on the field, but the degree of defensive skill in your lacrosse "forwards" is much less significant to the outcome than in hockey.
That 1976 Cornell team had a second team and an honorable mention All-America defenseman, by the way, along with a first team and three honorable mention midfielders--who do play a key role in the defensive end.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2004 04:16PM by Al DeFlorio.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: CowbellGuy (Moderator)
Date: August 20, 2004 04:20PM
[Q]DC83 Wrote:
ALSO, IT WASN'T JUST ANY GAME IT WAS THE 1ST ROUND OF NCAA.[/q]
ALSO, IT WASN'T JUST ANY GAME IT WAS THE 1ST ROUND OF NCAA.[/q]
___________________________
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
"[Hugh] Jessiman turned out to be a huge specimen of something alright." --Puck Daddy
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 20, 2004 06:25PM
I assumed the poor guy was still paying off student loans and was stuck with a broken keyboard with caps lock on.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 20, 2004 07:03PM
[Q]Al DeFlorio Wrote: Lacrosse works a bit differently than hockey. While the attack contributes to team defense by "riding" while the other team tries to "clear," they don't play in the defensive half of the field. Likewise, the defense, other than taking the ball down the field very occasionally on a clear, don't really participate in the offensive end. In hockey, forwards can play an important role in the defensive end, too, and are a vital part of Mike's "system." I suspect Eamon would have been a demon at any position on the field, but the degree of defensive skill in your lacrosse "forwards" is much less significant to the outcome than in hockey. That 1976 Cornell team had a second team and an honorable mention All-America defenseman, by the way, along with a first team and three honorable mention midfielders--who do play a key role in the defensive end.
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08/20/04 04:16PM by Al DeFlorio.[/q]
On one of Richie Moran's regrets, if I can recall back thirty years -- gad, is it that long? I guess it is -- is that he wanted to move Jim Trenz, the incredible transfer from Penn State, from forward to middie so he could go both ways (back when that term had just one meaning). But alas in 1974 Eamon ('77 and RIP WTC '01) was a freshman and freshmen were not varsity-eligible.
And I believe Moran felt French ('76) was a natural midfielder even if he was the most dominant scorer in the history of college lacrosse. (Recall that Mike's 295 or so points came over three years, while all the Syracuse studs had their 300-plus point careers in four years).
That said, if you control the ball in the offensive zone 70 percent of the time, that's an effective defense, too. As is a gorilla on faceoffs (remember Maryland's Frank Urso?).
Speaking of defense, maybe we need to limit the long stick rule to the three true defenders on the field. Unless the NCAA allows you to put a bunch of sticks back near the goal and players pick up what they need as they run by.
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 08/20/04 04:16PM by Al DeFlorio.[/q]
On one of Richie Moran's regrets, if I can recall back thirty years -- gad, is it that long? I guess it is -- is that he wanted to move Jim Trenz, the incredible transfer from Penn State, from forward to middie so he could go both ways (back when that term had just one meaning). But alas in 1974 Eamon ('77 and RIP WTC '01) was a freshman and freshmen were not varsity-eligible.
And I believe Moran felt French ('76) was a natural midfielder even if he was the most dominant scorer in the history of college lacrosse. (Recall that Mike's 295 or so points came over three years, while all the Syracuse studs had their 300-plus point careers in four years).
That said, if you control the ball in the offensive zone 70 percent of the time, that's an effective defense, too. As is a gorilla on faceoffs (remember Maryland's Frank Urso?).
Speaking of defense, maybe we need to limit the long stick rule to the three true defenders on the field. Unless the NCAA allows you to put a bunch of sticks back near the goal and players pick up what they need as they run by.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.ligo-wa.caltech.edu)
Date: August 22, 2004 02:26PM
[Q]billhoward Wrote:
No complaints about Schafer's system and his winning percentage. It almost got Cornell to the finals two years ago. But when you're down by one goal in the closing three minutes, you're still only allowed 5+1 guys on the ice, and having 10 really talented teamworkers isn't going to cut it, except you can run three waves of equally talented people and hope one line gets lucky.[/q]
The fact that NCAA games are televised and therefore contain a bunch of free timeouts to rest the superstars also hurts teams whose strength is the depth to roll lines. OTOH, when a team like that gets into an overtime game like Cornell vs BC, that strength can wear the opponent down.
No complaints about Schafer's system and his winning percentage. It almost got Cornell to the finals two years ago. But when you're down by one goal in the closing three minutes, you're still only allowed 5+1 guys on the ice, and having 10 really talented teamworkers isn't going to cut it, except you can run three waves of equally talented people and hope one line gets lucky.[/q]
The fact that NCAA games are televised and therefore contain a bunch of free timeouts to rest the superstars also hurts teams whose strength is the depth to roll lines. OTOH, when a team like that gets into an overtime game like Cornell vs BC, that strength can wear the opponent down.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.ziffdavis.com)
Date: August 22, 2004 10:08PM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
billhoward Wrote: No complaints about Schafer's system and his winning percentage. It almost got Cornell to the finals two years ago. But when you're down by one goal in the closing three minutes, you're still only allowed 5+1 guys on the ice, and having 10 really talented teamworkers isn't going to cut it, except you can run three waves of equally talented people and hope one line gets lucky.[/Q]
The fact that NCAA games are televised and therefore contain a bunch of free timeouts to rest the superstars also hurts teams whose strength is the depth to roll lines. OTOH, when a team like that gets into an overtime game like Cornell vs BC, that strength can wear the opponent down.[/q]
There's only so many ways you can fine tune your team. UNH, or is it Maine, that plays in an Olympic-layout rink can tailor itself to a finess game at home but then it's hosed on the road, unless they're playing in Lake Placid. At some point, the theoretical advantage is likely overcome by the reality of the lucks of the draw. The tripping call the ref missed, or the shot that bounced up and over the crossbar not down and in, that's what makes Denver not North Dakota the national champion. If you're a two-serious-lines-only hockey team, then TV time-outs at the end are another of slight theoretical advantages if you're coming from behind, a big advantage if it you're ahead and it gives your best forechecking line a breather.
I'd still like to see one Hobey Baker finalist playing (for Cornell) in Lynah Rink over the next decade who's on offense.
There was a USCHO poll over the winter that asked, what would you rather have, an NCAA title one year and nothing, no final four, maybe no NCAA appearance the next couple years ... or a plodding NCAA entrant every year but no Frozen Four appearance? The majority of fans wanted the shooting star of fortune, that one season in the limelight.
Maybe the plodding defense is the tortoise that wins the race eventually? And that eventually for Cornell was 2002-03? And the luck of the draw was the high sticking call at game's end? Or LeNeveau playing a merely average game?
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: August 23, 2004 06:40AM
"Offense sells tickets; defense win championships."
That probably isn't as true in hockey as in football, but there's something to it. Lake Superior State had a team that was criticized as plodding that won three national titles in seven years, during the period in which Schafer was a rival CCHA coach. It is certainly posible to win by building out from net, and I think it's the more likely path for an Ivy, given the constraints on admitting the very few blue chip offensive players who go the college route.
That probably isn't as true in hockey as in football, but there's something to it. Lake Superior State had a team that was criticized as plodding that won three national titles in seven years, during the period in which Schafer was a rival CCHA coach. It is certainly posible to win by building out from net, and I think it's the more likely path for an Ivy, given the constraints on admitting the very few blue chip offensive players who go the college route.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 23, 2004 07:35AM
[Q]Greg Berge Wrote:Lake Superior State had a team that was criticized as plodding that won three national titles in seven years, during the period in which Schafer was a rival CCHA coach. It is certainly posible to win by building out from net, and I think it's the more likely path for an Ivy, given the constraints on admitting the very few blue chip offensive players who go the college route.[/q]
I would certainly be okay with a plodding style that won three NCAA titles.
You have a good point about making an accommodation to Ivy policies - like, say, you have to be a decent student - being something Schafer can use as a tool. If he can't get the low GPA, high GPG (goals per game) players admitted, go for the overall team.
I would certainly be okay with a plodding style that won three NCAA titles.
You have a good point about making an accommodation to Ivy policies - like, say, you have to be a decent student - being something Schafer can use as a tool. If he can't get the low GPA, high GPG (goals per game) players admitted, go for the overall team.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: DC83 (---.essd.northgrum.com)
Date: August 23, 2004 12:23PM
FYI, I STARTED DOING IT YEARS AGO TO ANNOY A GEEK FRIEND OF MINE (HE IN FORMED ME IT WAS YELLING), NOW I DO IT JUST TO ANNOY GEEKS LIKE YOU GUYS AND IT WORKS EVERY TIME 
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: August 23, 2004 01:44PM
[Q]DC83 Wrote:
FYI, I STARTED DOING IT YEARS AGO TO ANNOY A GEEK FRIEND OF MINE (HE IN FORMED ME IT WAS YELLING), NOW I DO IT JUST TO ANNOY GEEKS LIKE YOU GUYS AND IT WORKS EVERY TIME [/q]
Writing all-caps to annoy somebody is like farting in public to annoy somebody. You affect innocent bystanders.
FYI, I STARTED DOING IT YEARS AGO TO ANNOY A GEEK FRIEND OF MINE (HE IN FORMED ME IT WAS YELLING), NOW I DO IT JUST TO ANNOY GEEKS LIKE YOU GUYS AND IT WORKS EVERY TIME [/q]
Writing all-caps to annoy somebody is like farting in public to annoy somebody. You affect innocent bystanders.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: ninian '72 (165.224.215.---)
Date: August 23, 2004 02:14PM
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
John Hughes' kid turned out to be a pretty good skater, but not much of a hockey player.[/Q]
I didn't realize she'd played hockey.[/q]
Actually, didn't one older brother attend Cornell and try to make the team and another play hockey at IC?
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: Give My Regards (---.oracorp.com)
Date: August 23, 2004 04:23PM
[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:
Actually, didn't one older brother attend Cornell and try to make the team and another play hockey at IC?
[/q]
Yes to Cornell; I believe his name was David and he appeared in a game or two as a freshman before leaving the team. I vaguely remember another brother at IC but can't remember whether he played on their (club) hockey team or not.
Actually, didn't one older brother attend Cornell and try to make the team and another play hockey at IC?
[/q]
Yes to Cornell; I believe his name was David and he appeared in a game or two as a freshman before leaving the team. I vaguely remember another brother at IC but can't remember whether he played on their (club) hockey team or not.
___________________________
If you lead a good life, go to Sunday school and church, and say your prayers every night, when you die, you'll go to LYNAH!
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Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.no.no.cox.net)
Date: August 24, 2004 08:44AM
[Q]ninian '72 Wrote:
jtwcornell91 Wrote:
billhoward Wrote:
John Hughes' kid turned out to be a pretty good skater, but not much of a hockey player.[/Q]
I didn't realize she'd played hockey.[/Q]
Actually, didn't one older brother attend Cornell and try to make the team and another play hockey at IC?
[/q]
At least one of us was trying to make a joke about the sister...
Re: Will this team improve over last year?
Posted by: C.J.B.T (---.static.mts.net)
Date: August 24, 2004 12:46PM
[Q]CUlater 89 Wrote:
Whether we can get an at-large bid will also be subject to how other teams perform. For example, if we finish second in the league and lose in the ECAC semis, and the first place team, with a superior out of conference schedule/record also doesn't win the ECAC playoffs, that'll be one less at-large spot for which we might be eligible. The same rule applies to upsets in other conference tournaments.
As for the '04-'05 season, one of the biggest concerns is the loss of Vesce's faceoff skills. We suffered greatly while he was hurt, and without McRae to back him up, we had no one who could win faceoffs consistently. That's the situation we'll have coming into this season, although there is some hope that Topher Scott will be able to assume faceoff responsibilities. Still, he's only one guy.
As for the freshman, where is the hype coming from (other than some of the members of this board)? Have there been any rankings of freshmen classes around the country? For myself, I hear Davenport is very good, but if the best skater is Sawada, I'm a little concerned, since he seems more like a banger than a scorer (although he had 52 points in 54 games last season, the year before he was 7-17-24 in 36 games, with 155 penalty minutes; and even Hornby had 51 points in 58 games (with 154 penalty minutes) the year before he came to Cornell). The fact that he was drafted high I think is more of a reflection of his size and potential to play the NHL game.
For the team to be successful on a national level, goalscoring must come from Moulson, Hynes, Bitz, and someone else, on a fairly consistent basis. It could be one of the Abbotts, although I hear Schafer thinks of them as third-liners; it could be Knoepfli; or it could be one of the other sophomores.[/q]
Whether we can get an at-large bid will also be subject to how other teams perform. For example, if we finish second in the league and lose in the ECAC semis, and the first place team, with a superior out of conference schedule/record also doesn't win the ECAC playoffs, that'll be one less at-large spot for which we might be eligible. The same rule applies to upsets in other conference tournaments.
As for the '04-'05 season, one of the biggest concerns is the loss of Vesce's faceoff skills. We suffered greatly while he was hurt, and without McRae to back him up, we had no one who could win faceoffs consistently. That's the situation we'll have coming into this season, although there is some hope that Topher Scott will be able to assume faceoff responsibilities. Still, he's only one guy.
As for the freshman, where is the hype coming from (other than some of the members of this board)? Have there been any rankings of freshmen classes around the country? For myself, I hear Davenport is very good, but if the best skater is Sawada, I'm a little concerned, since he seems more like a banger than a scorer (although he had 52 points in 54 games last season, the year before he was 7-17-24 in 36 games, with 155 penalty minutes; and even Hornby had 51 points in 58 games (with 154 penalty minutes) the year before he came to Cornell). The fact that he was drafted high I think is more of a reflection of his size and potential to play the NHL game.
For the team to be successful on a national level, goalscoring must come from Moulson, Hynes, Bitz, and someone else, on a fairly consistent basis. It could be one of the Abbotts, although I hear Schafer thinks of them as third-liners; it could be Knoepfli; or it could be one of the other sophomores.[/q]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2004 01:21PM by C.J.B.T.
Re: Whos hot and whos not...
Posted by: C.J.B.T (---.static.mts.net)
Date: August 24, 2004 12:57PM
My view on how we will replace Vesce is by giving more prominent roles to Hynes, Bitz, Carefoot and Iggulden, along with continued scoring from Moulson. Although, Bitz may be hurting with a bad back, we can't forget that Carefoot logged quite a bit of ice time as a freshman, playing whatever position he was asked and more of a defensive role. I think he can be more of an offensive threat giving the opportunity. I would try him at centre between either a Moulson, Hynes or Knoepfli. Either way Vesce will be missed.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2004 01:28PM by C.J.B.T.
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