OT: Goalie masks vs. catcher's masks

Anyone else notice that the catcher's mask seems like it's really starting to ressemble a goalie mask? Are that many catchers getting hurt by errant bats and balls? I know that they usually wear modified batting helmets in reverse because they frequently get clocked in the hand on some batters' backswings. The masks look really like hockey masks I think!

This style of catcher's mask has been around for a number of years. I believe the first catcher to wear one was Charlie O'Brien (of too many teams to list here). Some guys don't like them; I know Mike Piazza prefers the face mask/batting helmet combination. The gimmicky "catcher cam" requires the goalie style mask, so you know Fox loves the new ones.

I think Joe Oliver was the first catcher to use a goalie mask. It isn't an accident. And catchers get hit in the face with foul tips all the time. It is a great innovation.

EDIT: Lowell is correct. It was Charlie O'Brien, not Joe Oliver. [members.tripod.com]

[Q]LowellFrank Wrote:

This style of catcher's mask has been around for a number of years. I believe the first catcher to wear one was Charlie O'Brien (of too many teams to list here). [/Q]

He was playing with Toronto (of course!) when the goalie-style mask made its debut. September 13, 1996.
[www.baseballlibrary.com]


[Q]Some guys don't like them; I know Mike Piazza prefers the face mask/batting helmet combination. The gimmicky "catcher cam" requires the goalie style mask, so you know Fox loves the new ones. [/Q]
I've seen "catcher cam" used with old-style masks. Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez have both worn it. The camera and battery pack get mounted on the "wings" of the iron. That has to add a substantial amount of weight, so I'm sure they don't like it.

In addition, according to [www.jacksonsun.com] the hockey-style of mask is now required by the National Federation of State High School Associations.

What it comes down to is that the masks are evolving together because of functionality. Hockey just got there first because the game needs more protection.

JH

I don't like the new masks on principle 'cuz I'm a purist!

But seriously, it still looks funny seeing a catcher in a goalie mask, but I guess it's an advance in technology.

One thing that is different about catchers and goalies. MLB catchers are not allowed to have individualized designs on their masks. A mask must be painted in team colors and insignia. When he first got it approved Charlie O'Brien had some sort of design on it but had to have it repainted before he could use it in a game.

The chicken or the egg? As a kid, I was a baseball catcher and I always wondered why hockey goalies wore those white contoured masks instead of something like a catcher's mask. Eventually, hockey goalies began using caged masks that resembled catcher's masks instead of those thin pieces of plastic that people now only identify with Jason from the Friday the 13th movies. Ironically, I think the Soviets were the first to use the catcher-style goalie cages. What did the goalies wear in "Miracle?"

The following link shows Dryden with a plastic mask. Meanwhile, baseball catchers were wearing caged masks for nearly 100 years before this. So, which really came first?

[sportsillustrated.cnn.com]

Remember that for a long, long time goalies didn't wear any mask. It was only when they realized that they could stop pucks with their masks and keep playing that they started to become popular. One of the early ones (who was it?) painted gash with stitches on his contoured mask at each spot he stopped a puck.

I think you are refering to Boston Bruins goalie Gerry Cheevers

[www.hockeymasks.com]

[Q]Scott Kominkiewicz Wrote:
What did the goalies wear in "Miracle?"
[/Q]

IIRC, "Jim Craig" was wearing the Jason-style thin piece of plastic mask.

[q] I think you are refering to Boston Bruins goalie Gerry Cheevers [/q]

Yes. Too late at night to dredge it up from my memory and too lazy to dig it up from the web.

The version that I got from a high school teacher of mine (who, incidentally, used to be a goalie) was that the masks were originally put in place to prevent severity of injury. For example, if you were hit in the face with a puck it would tear the skin whereas if you were hit while wearing the mask, you would still get a cut, but it would be a straight line type deal that could be easily stitched up as opposed to ripping apart your face

Some catchers will never give in to the new style (Benito Santiago, for example, who's older than baseball itself) - I probably wouldn't either, being another purist, but I haven't been on that side of the plate in years...guess I could change my mind after a good bruising.

The traditional masks are two-pieces while the hockey-style ones are one piece, that makes a big difference to catchers.

Either way, still part of the tools of ignorance.

It has been a long time since I was in Little League, but from what I remember one of the benefits of the 2 part mask was in being able to remove the mask quickly when chasing down foul tips and pop-ups. I would imagine that the hockey style mask would be more challenging to remove quickly and also heavier to run with (the old baseball adage was to remove the mask immediately but keep it in your hand until you had moved under the ball, then throw it to the side (if you dropped it right away and the ball tailed or was blown by the wind you might run over it and trip)

I believe the new catcher's masks are slightly different than goalie masks behind the head making them relatively easier to remove. When O'Brien debuted his mask, I recall the announcers commenting on how that was an obstacle to be overcome in design.

Over time, catchers (previously, hockey goaltenders) realized it's not shameful to have adequate protection. You'll notice lacrosse helmets are changing, too.

I bet Don Zimmer wishes he wore a batting helmet.

There are a few old timers who believe it's a real sport only when the participant risks all. Read Brock Yates reminiscing on how wimpy motorsports have become because drivers are not dying in the quantity they used to. Remember the 1973 Watkins Glen Grand Prix that killed Francois Cevert? That was Yates' kind of racing.

That said, there is some argument that the full face shields in college (possibly HS too) hockey make the players (skaters) chippier and more likely to lift their sticks knowing there's less risk of causing injury except for maybe the rare big injury.

Use Brock "every form of racing should use a big, American pushrod lump" Yates for any more point-making, and I'll just have to ban your ass. I've never heard more inane ideas come out of a human being. It's too bad he never managed to kill himself on a Cannonball or something. Of course, we're talking about someone who lives in Wyoming, NY by choice.

Since you brought it up, I actually think some drivers or series have become a bit prissy (see every sterile, flat giant gravel trap F1 track built since 1994). If there's almost no risk of hitting anything, drivers become complacent and stupid, often resulting in big accidents where flying debris is more of a risk to spectators than the guys in the cars (Australia '01). But hey, if Brock loves dead and broken drivers, I'm sure he's a big fan of the IRL.

A couple years back, in an effort to ward off male menopause, I took the Skip Barber three-day race certification program. There is now no queston in my mind that you do more than just sit in a chair and press the gas pedal. Unless you're in top shape physically, you're not going to be able to hold your neck up straight going around corners and you won't be very sharp mentally at the end of the race if you're facing exhaustion. And that's just in rattly little Formula Dodge cars that can't do but 120mph.

Plus, have you seen the caliber of women who hang around racetracks? F1 at least if not Chemung Motor Speedway.

The most bizarre thing about motor racing though must be having David Hobbs as an analyst at Daytona.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
The most bizarre thing about motor racing though must be having David Hobbs as an analyst at Daytona. [/Q]
Even if he's out of his element, I'll take Hobbs over the yokels on Fox and NBC doing NASCAR any day. Oh wait. I don't watch NASCAR. No, it works just fine having him do F1, thanks. Impressive thread drift going on here...

back to talking about baseball ... and how it sucks

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
There are a few old timers who believe it's a real sport only when the participant risks all. [/Q]"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports... all others are games."
- Ernest Hemingway


I don't agree, but it's a great quote.

[Q]jmh30 Wrote: "Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports... all others are games."
- Ernest Hemingway


I don't agree, but it's a great quote.

[/Q]

I think that's the line Brock Yates trots out for his annual "F1 drivers are now wimps" column. I'm pretty sure he credits Hemingway. At least you've got to give him that. Or as the fop once told Oscar Wilde:

Fop: Brilliant, Oscar, I wish I'd said that.
Wilde: Eventually, you will.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
Fop: Brilliant, Oscar, I wish I'd said that.
Wilde: Eventually, you will. [/Q]Actually, Oscar Wilde is the fop in that exchange. He was zinged by James McNeill Whistler.
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