goalies
Posted by littleredfan
goalies
Posted by: littleredfan (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: February 04, 2002 09:42PM
ok, not to reintroduce a 'controversy' that isn't really there (and forget about the argument about who is better), but what does everyone see as the advantages/disadvantages of both going with the current goalie system (underhill friday/leneveu saturday) versus schafer switching to playing one on a more consistent basis at this point in the season for the home stretch (in prep. for the playoffs?), seeing as how they are both playing amazingly? (or maybe this is a pointless discussion-if it ain't broke, don't fix it--the team as a whole is holding opponents to an incredible GAA, so why make individual changes?)
i sometimes wonder how it would be if one played a significantly larger share of the games--i'd guess we'd see a lot more individual accolades for them on a weekly basis (and maybe even for the season-say, if leneveu played the whole way through he could be ROTY). clearly though, this is secondary to the team success-im sure either of them would trade in individual accolades or playing time for a chance to play in the NCAAs...
i sometimes wonder how it would be if one played a significantly larger share of the games--i'd guess we'd see a lot more individual accolades for them on a weekly basis (and maybe even for the season-say, if leneveu played the whole way through he could be ROTY). clearly though, this is secondary to the team success-im sure either of them would trade in individual accolades or playing time for a chance to play in the NCAAs...
Re: goalies
Posted by: JordanCS (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 04, 2002 10:38PM
Maybe they'll continue playing every other night...including the playoffs. They obviously perform well on the current schedule, and having a fresh goalie for every playoff game wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this happens. It's not a lack of confidence in either goalie, it's an overwhelming amount of confidence in both goalies.
Re: goalies
Posted by: KeithK (---.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
Date: February 04, 2002 11:50PM
Right now I think it'd be hard to bench either guy based on their performances. If I were coach I think I'd stick with the rotation as long as neither guy shows any signs of slipping.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: February 05, 2002 07:43AM
Harvard won a national championship alternating goalies right through the Final Four.
Re: goalies
Posted by: zg88 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2002 04:05PM
The Big Red netminding duo is responsible for 4 out of the 9 shut-outs in the ECAC so far this season.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Scott Kominkiewicz (---.nycm.splitrock.net)
Date: February 06, 2002 04:49PM
To allow one to play regularly might cause the other to get rusty. The current system seems fine.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Ben Doyle 03 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2002 07:41PM
Since there's really nothing to add to this thread, I mean if it aint broke. . .don't fix it! It's that simple. Not a bad set of circumstances to have to deal with, two of the top five goalies in the nation on the same bench. On a lighter note, at this weekends Brown game, section A was quite creative in their jeers of Yann Danis. He is from Quebec and therefore his native language is French, so they yelled at him in french (seems obvious) but boy did they get into his head and it was more than amusing. During intermissions, their locker room door was ajar and these hecklers had the Brown assistant coaches laughing so hard at one point they had to leave the locker room. Oh well, I don't feel so bad about wrecking a nice French Canadian goalie when I know we have one of the best on our roster.
LGR!!!!
LGR!!!!
Re: goalies
Posted by: littleredfan (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: February 06, 2002 07:58PM
from the cornell athletics web site:
Big Red in the News: Cornell was recently featured by TSN Magazine and USCHO with columns highlighting the Cornell-Harvard game. The Dec. 31 issue of U.S. College Hockey Magazine also included a two-page feature on Big Red netminder Matt Underhill. Look for a feature on Cornell goalies Dave LeNeveu and Underhill coming soon on USCHO and for a Big Red story on NHL.com's "On Campus" feature section (www.nhl.com). Locally, the Ithaca Journal (www.ithacajournal.com) is also set to run a goalie feature.
has anyone seen that uschm feature on underhill?
Big Red in the News: Cornell was recently featured by TSN Magazine and USCHO with columns highlighting the Cornell-Harvard game. The Dec. 31 issue of U.S. College Hockey Magazine also included a two-page feature on Big Red netminder Matt Underhill. Look for a feature on Cornell goalies Dave LeNeveu and Underhill coming soon on USCHO and for a Big Red story on NHL.com's "On Campus" feature section (www.nhl.com). Locally, the Ithaca Journal (www.ithacajournal.com) is also set to run a goalie feature.
has anyone seen that uschm feature on underhill?
Re: goalies
Posted by: melissa (---.nycap.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2002 09:30PM
wow! it's amazing to see all the national attention the team is suddenly getting. it's a great source of pride.
Re: goalies
Posted by: RedAR (---.harvard.edu)
Date: February 06, 2002 09:38PM
Re: goalies
Posted by: Chris '02 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 06, 2002 09:48PM
The cheers at Cornell in general tend to get everybody laughing. In the closing minutes of the Brown game on Saturday night, when the "This team is the winning team" "This team is the losing team" cheer got going, the linesman whom was about to drop the puck near the Brown bench after an offsides, could not keep from smiling about that one.
LGR!!!
LGR!!!
Re: goalies
Posted by: CowbellGuy (---.biotech.cornell.edu)
Date: February 06, 2002 11:10PM
Boy, is anyone else getting tired of that picture of Undy from his freshman year? (Especially since it's in the USCHO banner at the top of the page)
Re: goalies
Posted by: jeh25 (130.132.105.---)
Date: February 07, 2002 09:32AM
Dude. Only you would every notice that....
I went and looked and sure enough, you are right. 3rd guy from the right is Undy, with the Cornell photoshopped off his jersey.
I went and looked and sure enough, you are right. 3rd guy from the right is Undy, with the Cornell photoshopped off his jersey.
Re: goalies
Posted by: CowbellGuy (---.biotech.cornell.edu)
Date: February 07, 2002 10:06AM
Just noticed USCHO has a new poll on the most impressive freshman. LeNeveu is second behind Sean Collins early in the voting.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.dial.spiritone.com)
Date: February 07, 2002 11:14AM
> Boy, is anyone else getting tired of that picture of Undy from his freshman year? (Especially since it's in the USCHO banner at the top of the page)
No more than of that pic of Schafer from his days as an assistant coach, which still surfaces every once in a while in stories on the wire.
Personally, I think they should use his pic from the cover of the '86 Media Guide. He looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy in a Cornell sweater.
No more than of that pic of Schafer from his days as an assistant coach, which still surfaces every once in a while in stories on the wire.
Personally, I think they should use his pic from the cover of the '86 Media Guide. He looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy in a Cornell sweater.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 07, 2002 01:16PM
Age - can you supply a URL for that poll, please? I'm having trouble finding it. Thanks!
Beeeej
Beeeej
Re: goalies
Posted by: CowbellGuy (---.biotech.cornell.edu)
Date: February 07, 2002 01:22PM
It's on the main uscho.com page in the lower righthand corner.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Beeeej (---.udar.columbia.edu)
Date: February 07, 2002 01:54PM
Thanks! That'll teach me to make a search more complicated than it needs to be. :-{)}
Beeeej
Beeeej
Re: goalies
Posted by: zg88 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 07, 2002 05:40PM
> ...I think they should use his pic from the cover of the '86 Media Guide. He looks like the Pillsbury Dough Boy in a Cornell sweater.
)
Greg, I don't know if it's the same picture or not, but I have the '83 media guide -- with what is definitely Schafer as a freshman. It is exactly as you describe! (And it's exactly how I've thought of that picture for the last 19 years!)
(Freshman Schafer is introduced to the Cornell community as: "...a steady performer who adds winning habits to the Big Red..." (I think we could classify that one as an understatement...)).
)
Greg, I don't know if it's the same picture or not, but I have the '83 media guide -- with what is definitely Schafer as a freshman. It is exactly as you describe! (And it's exactly how I've thought of that picture for the last 19 years!)
(Freshman Schafer is introduced to the Cornell community as: "...a steady performer who adds winning habits to the Big Red..." (I think we could classify that one as an understatement...)).
Re: goalies
Posted by: melissa (---.nycap.rr.com)
Date: February 08, 2002 05:27AM
Coach answers the rotation question - sort of - in Friday's Sun. Though he doesn't say which way it'll go.......
I'm fairly certain it'll be Undy seeing that there isn't that much difference between his and Lenny's numbers and this is Undy's last year. Any opinions? Preferences? Undy seems to want that ECAC title bad! After coming close so many times I really hope that he gets the opportunity!
I'm fairly certain it'll be Undy seeing that there isn't that much difference between his and Lenny's numbers and this is Undy's last year. Any opinions? Preferences? Undy seems to want that ECAC title bad! After coming close so many times I really hope that he gets the opportunity!
Re: goalies
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 08, 2002 08:54AM
In other words, tie goes to the Senior?
Clinching the playoffs
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 08, 2002 09:07AM
Incidentally, the article states that we clinch the playoffs with a sweep this weekend. Actually, all we need is one point to clinch the postseason. (Tim Danehey summed it up best: since there are 132 total games in the ECAC season, the only way a team with 24 points can end up in 11th place is if the 12th place team has 0 points.)
Re: goalies
Posted by: ugarte (63.94.240.---)
Date: February 08, 2002 10:13AM
Maybe Tim Danehey summed it up too much. How does he figure the math? (Not that I don't believe you, just curious.)
Re: Clinching the playoffs
Posted by: Keith K (---.lmco.com)
Date: February 08, 2002 11:43AM
Well, I won't try that math this early in the morning, but a quick look a John's Nutshell page shows that a Cornell sweep clinches at least 7th place for the Red (guarantees finishing ahead of UVM, brown, Yale, Princeton and either RPI/SLU). If the bounces go right we could actually wrap up home ice by Sunday (though I'd rather see Clarkson lose to Union I think).
Re: Clinching the playoffs
Posted by: Neil Shapiro '83 (146.145.226.---)
Date: February 08, 2002 01:27PM
Math is correct. 132 games, so 264 pts.
Only possible way for 24 pts to be 11th is if only one team has less than 24, and 24x11 = 264 so must be an 11-way tie for 1st (and 11th)...but not possible since nobody has 0 pts....so 24 pts must finish in top 10.
I think that because the Vermont has 7 pts already, I think this means that the worst Cornell can do is finish in a 7 way tie for 5th-11th, and I will yield to someone with way more time than I have to determine if that is possible....and if we could lose that tiebreak.
Only possible way for 24 pts to be 11th is if only one team has less than 24, and 24x11 = 264 so must be an 11-way tie for 1st (and 11th)...but not possible since nobody has 0 pts....so 24 pts must finish in top 10.
I think that because the Vermont has 7 pts already, I think this means that the worst Cornell can do is finish in a 7 way tie for 5th-11th, and I will yield to someone with way more time than I have to determine if that is possible....and if we could lose that tiebreak.
Re: Clinching the playoffs
Posted by: Neil Shapiro '83 (146.145.226.---)
Date: February 08, 2002 01:29PM
Gosh, after 18 years, I finally put those Math major skills to work....I guess it was all worth it.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.metro1.com)
Date: February 08, 2002 04:45PM
I haven't done the math, but it may still be that Cornell has already technically clinched a playoff berth because of the further effects of the bottom teams' playing one another down the stretch. It may not be possible for the final points among the top 11 teams to distribute evenly enough that all finish over 23. (Then again, it may.) The question is whether there is a scenario that awards:
Brown 13 pts
RPI 12
Princeton, SLU, and Yale 11
etc...
My intuition is that there is not: the accumulation of n-1 of those outcomes will render the nth impossible.
These interference effects get ignored all the time in the wildcard races in baseball and hockey. Teams generally fall out of the wildcard race two or more games before the newspapers recognize that they are statistically eliminated, because games between the teams that they must overtake are not sufficiently considered.
In a related story, Cornell has already clinched a playoff berth in 2002-03.
Brown 13 pts
RPI 12
Princeton, SLU, and Yale 11
etc...
My intuition is that there is not: the accumulation of n-1 of those outcomes will render the nth impossible.
These interference effects get ignored all the time in the wildcard races in baseball and hockey. Teams generally fall out of the wildcard race two or more games before the newspapers recognize that they are statistically eliminated, because games between the teams that they must overtake are not sufficiently considered.
In a related story, Cornell has already clinched a playoff berth in 2002-03.
Re: Clinching the playoffs
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 08, 2002 06:54PM
Tim worked it out; there are combinations of results in which we lose a 10-way tie breaker for 2nd-11th place.
Re: goalies
Posted by: zg88 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 09, 2002 03:18AM
> In a related story, Cornell has already clinched a playoff berth in 2002-03.
Hilarious and disgusting at the same time, Greg...
)
Hilarious and disgusting at the same time, Greg...
)
Re: goalies
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: February 09, 2002 03:24AM
Greg Berge wrote:
Wow, sounds like something a BC fan would say.
In a related story, Cornell has already clinched a playoff berth in 2002-03.
Re: LENNY IS #1 !!!
Posted by: zg88 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 09, 2002 05:05AM
Thanks to Cam McCormick's "off night" last night (he allowed 3 goals in a tie game), the Big Red's David LeNeveu is -- at least for the moment -- the NUMBER ONE GOALIE IN THE NATION! (The margin is as close as it gets -- 1.45 to 1.46).
Let's hope he can hang on to that distinction in the wake of tonight's action! Congrats, Lenny!
(Incidentally, Michigan State's Ryan Miller posted his nation-leading 7th(!!) shut-out this season with a 39-save blanking of Notre Dame last night. He now has an incredible 25 SO's in his career -- and he's only a junior...)
Let's hope he can hang on to that distinction in the wake of tonight's action! Congrats, Lenny!
(Incidentally, Michigan State's Ryan Miller posted his nation-leading 7th(!!) shut-out this season with a 39-save blanking of Notre Dame last night. He now has an incredible 25 SO's in his career -- and he's only a junior...)
Clinching
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 09, 2002 10:02AM
It's relatively easy to demonstrate that a team hasn't clinched a playoff berth. Tim provided a specific example of a combination of results that would have put Cornell in 11th after the tiebreakers.
Of course Cornell has clinched the playoffs now.
Of course Cornell has clinched the playoffs now.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Adam Ganderson (---.syr.edu)
Date: February 09, 2002 10:42AM
I hope I'm asking this question on behalf of the others who don't know but don't have the guts to ask. But if I'm just stupid, please humor me anyway?
How have we already secured a playoff berth for next season, and what does that mean? Does good performance this season mean that even if we're 11th or 12th next season we'll still get to be in playoffs? That just doesn't sound right...
How have we already secured a playoff berth for next season, and what does that mean? Does good performance this season mean that even if we're 11th or 12th next season we'll still get to be in playoffs? That just doesn't sound right...
Re: goalies
Posted by: Jordan 04 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: February 09, 2002 11:05AM
ECAC is moving to a new playoff format next year.
All 12 teams qualify for the playoffs.
"Under the new format, all 12 teams will qualify for the playoffs and the top four finishers will earn a bye past the first round. Teams five through eight will host a first-round series against the bottom four teams.
The winners of those series will then be reseeded to travel to the bye teams in the quarterfinals, resulting in a four-team bracket at Lake Placid."
All 12 teams qualify for the playoffs.
"Under the new format, all 12 teams will qualify for the playoffs and the top four finishers will earn a bye past the first round. Teams five through eight will host a first-round series against the bottom four teams.
The winners of those series will then be reseeded to travel to the bye teams in the quarterfinals, resulting in a four-team bracket at Lake Placid."
Re: goalies
Posted by: jason (---.summit01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: February 09, 2002 03:59PM
A) All 12 teams in the playoffs is bush league.
B) Are the quarterfinals still best of 3?
B) Are the quarterfinals still best of 3?
Re: goalies
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.dial.spiritone.com)
Date: February 09, 2002 06:24PM
The first two rounds (bottom 8; reseeded top 8) are supposed to be best of three. It would make sense for revenue -- but that's a *lot* of games potentially (a bottom 4 team could play up to 8 ECAC playoff games alone).
All 12 making it is bogus, but it's better than the PIG (5/4 play in game on Thursday at Placid). This also means that the top 8 teams will host playoff series each year, which is good for spreading playoff interest among fans.
All 12 making it is bogus, but it's better than the PIG (5/4 play in game on Thursday at Placid). This also means that the top 8 teams will host playoff series each year, which is good for spreading playoff interest among fans.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Greg Berge (---.dial.spiritone.com)
Date: February 09, 2002 06:28PM
The other great thing about the new format, for we old fogies, is that it returns the emphasis on finishing in the top 4 slots. There's something elegant about the rewards being distributed in discrete quantities by third of league: Bye; Home; Away. The things to shoot for are simpler, hence better defined and more substantial.
Re: goalies
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.utb.edu)
Date: February 09, 2002 08:34PM
Now if we added Mercyhurst, Niagara, Quinnipiac and UConn, and let 12 teams out of 16 in, there would be four four-team blocks. Of course it wouldn't be long before they tried to let all 16 teams in.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.mediaone.net)
Date: February 09, 2002 11:23PM
Agree that dividing into thirds makes great sense: Home, Away, Goodbye.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: February 10, 2002 12:16AM
Getting back to goalies, if the weekend results continue, I predict Underhill for the playoffs.
Re: goalies
Posted by: Jordan 04 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: February 10, 2002 12:19AM
I think it's been clear for a number of weeks now that if Schafer ever decided to go to one for the stretch run or playoffs it would be Underhill.
LeNeveu would have to do something pretty damn special to unseat a senior goaltender who's top 5 in the nation. Come to think of it, #1 in the nation is "pretty damn special," but obviously Underhill has by no means lost his right to the home stretch and playoffs.
LeNeveu would have to do something pretty damn special to unseat a senior goaltender who's top 5 in the nation. Come to think of it, #1 in the nation is "pretty damn special," but obviously Underhill has by no means lost his right to the home stretch and playoffs.
Re: goalies
Posted by: cbuckser (---.snfc.splitrock.net)
Date: February 10, 2002 02:48AM
Mike Schafer has stated publicly that he has decided to go with one goaltender in the playoffs; he just hasn't revealed to the press which one he'll choose.
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