Sasha Pokulok signs with the Capitals

[www.insidecollegehockey.com]

...and I was having a pretty good day.

Bummer.

I hope this works out well for Sasha from a personal/professional standpoint. I just wish that the Cornell education and the training that they receive from Coach Schafer would keep our players here all four years. However, this is one of the drawbacks of bringing in really talented players, they are ready for the next challenge a lot sooner.

Good luck Sasha.

Any word on O'Byrne? Is he still staying?

Well...in lieu of an obsenity, I jeer this.

[www.washingtoncaps.com]

And it's also on the front page of the Captials' website, with a huge picture of him from a CU home game.

[www.washingtoncapitals.com]

bye, bye!!! I hope he learns to skate before he gets to camp. His last year was mediocre at best, I'm guessing some of the fr. we have coming in will fill his spot and we wont miss a beat. Now if O'byrne were to go

If you want to soften the blow, watch game tape from last year (except for @ Yale and the home weekend vs. the North Country).

[q]“Sasha is a big, strong defenseman who we are excited to add to our group of young prospects,” McPhee said. “His game has progressed nicely in two years at Cornell and we feel confident that he is ready to take his talents to the professional level.”[/q]

Is it just me, or is "progressed nicely" not the phrase I would choose?

Hockey's Future thread [hfboards.com]

ebilmes
[q]“Sasha is a big, strong defenseman who we are excited to add to our group of young prospects,” McPhee said. “His game has progressed nicely in two years at Cornell and we feel confident that he is ready to take his talents to the professional level.”[/q]

Is it just me, or is "progressed nicely" not the phrase I would choose?

I'm with you on this one. His freshman year was cause to hope for big things from him. His sophomore year was largely disappointing. It won't be real difficult to replace him. He has a lot of potential...But, he's got to play harder & smarter to realize that potential. I put him in the same category as Kent Manderville.....loads of unrealized potential.

[q]It won't be real difficult to replace him. He has a lot of potential...But, he's got to play harder & smarter to realize that potential.[/q]It will be extremely hard to replace the player Pokulok could have been for the '07 and '08 squads. He had the potential to be one of the best blueliners in college hockey by his senior season. Not to say that he certainly would have. But I think it's reasonable to expect that he would've been better as a junior than he was as a sophomore.

When a player leaves you can't only think about his past performance when considering what you've lost. As a general rule good players get better through their college careers as they get bigger, stronger and more experienced.

This loss hurts big time. Not too surprising though.

Good luck Sasha.

The price of getting good prospects is losing people early.

Sigh.

Good luck, Sasha. Rip it up, and I'll be seeing you at the MCI ("MIed in the Capitals' Indifference" Center.

Please, Verizon Center.

You'll probably see him in Hershey...for a long time. Physically and mentally this guy isn't ready to lead a college team, or cut it in the NHL.

Good luck to you, Sasha, and here's hoping you tear it up in the Profesional leagues!

From an article in The Ithaca Journal:
[Q]
Just four defensemen who played in more than half of Cornell's games last season will be back with the team this fall — Dan Glover, Ryan O'Byrne, Evan Salmela and Jared Seminoff.[/Q]

Either this was just an oversight, or the journal knows something we don't

[www.theithacajournal.com]

well, technically we do only return four defenseman who played in over half, just not the list the journal gave.

O'Byrne played 28/35, Glover 28/35, Doug Krantz 33/35, and Jared Seminoff 35/35. Salmela played 17/35, just under half the games. Taylor Davenport played in 10/35

Well, if Cornell wins the conference after losing its primary scorer, best offensive defenseman, best defensive defenseman and goaltender, maybe Schafer will finally win the Spencer Penrose.

Trotsky
Well, if Cornell wins the conference after losing its primary scorer, best offensive defenseman, best defensive defenseman and goaltender, maybe Schafer will finally win the Spencer Penrose.

Not to be a pessimist but it feels like everything is coming up Harvard.

Real surprising that the Caps would push this, given the amount of young talent already in the pipeline. OTOH, they had one of the worst D's in the NHL last year, and they may be eager to ratchet up the retooling. I was looking forward to seeing Sasha play at Verizon someday, but later rather than sooner.

Sounds like a reason for me to head down to a Phantoms versus Bears game: Charlie Cook versus Sasha Pokulok.

I think I'll stick with the folks here who thank Sasha for his time at Cornell and wish him godspeed rather than the surprising amount of playa hatin'. I expect that we are going to miss his presence on the blueline quite a bit.

I don't think there is "playa hatin" going on as much as an acceptance that Shane and David going pro- were both bigger losses for the team.

I was happy that Sasha chose to play for Cornell and I think I agree with pretty much everyone here in that he had a lot of potential. I think what disappoints many of us is that he didn't blossom into a consistently valuable player at Cornell, but I would hope that we would all love to see Sasha go on to have a great pro career.

Ben Rocky 04
I don't think there is "playa hatin" going on as much as an acceptance that Shane and David going pro- were both bigger losses for the team.

Agreed.

Bummer.

But maybe as a result Schafer will give more ice time to a player who better fits into his system...

Kyle

krose
Bummer.

But maybe as a result Schafer will give more ice time to a player who better fits into his system...

Kyle

You think you are the player that would better fit into his system?

I think Sasha is a really big loss (not surprising though). He's taken a lot of criticism on this thread, but I think he brought a certain level of talent to the defense. When he's on, things happen offensively too (well...maybe not on the PP). I wouldn't be at all surprised to see O'Byrne leave too. Hopefully the freshmen can step up.

I always thought he should have been faster, but people told me it was constant injury. His size will be missed (You can't run through a slow wall, either), but not much more, I think.

On the plus side to all of this, according to that link, San Diego signed Meyotte (G) from Union....

Which means while you're all at the Florida Classic over winter break, I get to, once again, brave absurdity and jeer another ECACHL goalie at a Gulls game...Then settle myself down and cheer for him once he's reminded that he's a sieve.

OT (sorry), but I still offer admiration (and a little concern) to anyone who can find a more complicated website than www.sandiegogulls.com

ugarte
You think you are the player that would better fit into his system?

LOL. It took me a few seconds to get that.

Kyle

There is a June 29 press relase on that complicated Gulls website http:www.SanDiegoGulls.com that says that you won't be able to watch them at all next year, since they planned to cease operations as of June 30.

David Harding
There is a June 29 press relase on that complicated Gulls website http:www.SanDiegoGulls.com that says that you won't be able to watch them at all next year, since they planned to cease operations as of June 30.

Sounds like Mayotte is going to just as good an organization as the one he just left.

redice

ebilmes
[q]“Sasha is a big, strong defenseman who we are excited to add to our group of young prospects,” McPhee said. “His game has progressed nicely in two years at Cornell and we feel confident that he is ready to take his talents to the professional level.”[/q]

Is it just me, or is "progressed nicely" not the phrase I would choose?

I'm with you on this one. His freshman year was cause to hope for big things from him. His sophomore year was largely disappointing. It won't be real difficult to replace him. He has a lot of potential...But, he's got to play harder & smarter to realize that potential. I put him in the same category as Kent Manderville.....loads of unrealized potential.

And I remember how much worse we were in '91-'92 after Manderville and Ratushny left early (granted, there were some key seniors lost too such as Derraugh, Andison, Frauley and Vanini). The question is, will whoever inherits his ice time be more or less effective?

Yes...I just saw that.

It's very disappointing, but seems to imply that the team isn't completely folded.

2007-2008 ECHL CHAMPIONS!


....But seriously, back to Sash'...

hope everyone is having a good summer...

good luck to Sasha in the pros. Does anyone know if he made it in time to be under the old collective bargaining agreement?

Washington Post article on Sasha:
[www.washingtonpost.com]

redGrinch
Washington Post article on Sasha:
[www.washingtonpost.com]

[Q]Pokulok's coach at Cornell, Mike Shafer, believes that one of Pokulok's greatest strengths -- his knowledge of the game -- will help in the adjustment.

"He has good hockey sense and sometimes those with the best hockey sense make these adjustments the easiest," Shafer said.[/Q]

Someone should send the spelling guide to the Washington Post. At least they got one out of two correct.

"he has to make more decisions and make decisions quicker and be more involved."

and we all have been saying what for how long?

We all wish Pokoluk lived up to the advance expectations. It was still better to have had him two years. The top WCHA schools have assumed they'd have their stars for only a year or two and now some of that's trickling into the ECAC and even the Ivy League.

The key returning member of the team is the coach. Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

billhoward
Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

"Conservative" though George McPhee may think it to be.

Al DeFlorio

billhoward
Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

"Conservative" though George McPhee may think it to be.

It *is* a conservative system. I don't see how one could think otherwise.

jmh30

Al DeFlorio

billhoward
Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

"Conservative" though George McPhee may think it to be.

It *is* a conservative system. I don't see how one could think otherwise.

I don't think *anyone* thinks otherwise.

The Devils play a "conservative" system, and have won more Cups with it than McPhee's team ever will playing whatever the system is they are trying to play.

From the same Washingon Post article:
"Whatever level they've [Sasha and younger brother Nick] played at, it's always been the highest level ..."

So who is this Nick Pokulok, how old is he, how good is he, and when should we expect him?

lifelongfan
From the same Washingon Post article:
"Whatever level they've [Sasha and younger brother Nick] played at, it's always been the highest level ..."

So who is this Nick Pokulok, how old is he, how good is he, and when should we expect him?

Nikhola Grenier-Pokulok is playing in the LHJMQ for "PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS", he's a '90 birthdate and he's a defenseman. Looks like he's 6'1", 160lbs.

In addition to Sasha's younger brother, Brendon Nash (incoming freshman) has a younger brother Riley who is a high-scoring prospect who'll be playing for the Salmon Arm Silverbacks this year (he played w/ them last year as a postseason callup, he's an '89 birthday), and Mike Kennedy's younger brother Patrick plays for the St. Thomas Stars (he's an 88 birthdate, 6'3" 190lbs) and was third on the team in scoring as a rookie (behind 2 '87 birthdates).

pfibiger

lifelongfan
From the same Washingon Post article:
"Whatever level they've [Sasha and younger brother Nick] played at, it's always been the highest level ..."

So who is this Nick Pokulok, how old is he, how good is he, and when should we expect him?

Nikhola Grenier-Pokulok is playing in the LHJMQ for "PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS", he's a '90 birthdate and he's a defenseman. Looks like he's 6'1", 160lbs.

In addition to Sasha's younger brother, Brendon Nash (incoming freshman) has a younger brother Riley who is a high-scoring prospect who'll be playing for the Salmon Arm Silverbacks this year (he played w/ them last year as a postseason callup, he's an '89 birthday), and Mike Kennedy's younger brother Patrick plays for the St. Thomas Stars (he's an 88 birthdate, 6'3" 190lbs) and was third on the team in scoring as a rookie (behind 2 '87 birthdates).

Hockey playing brothers who aren't twins? I don't get it.

pfibiger
Nikhola Grenier-Pokulok is playing in the LHJMQ for "PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS

Allez les PdlESdB!

ugarte
Hockey playing brothers who aren't twins? I don't get it.

Oh, you get it. You've just blocked it out because Harvard's gotten a very good set recently

Hillel Hoffmann

pfibiger
Nikhola Grenier-Pokulok is playing in the LHJMQ for "PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS

Allez les PdlESdB!

"PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS..."

"SUCKS!"

"PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS..."

"SUCKS!"

Trotsky

Hillel Hoffmann

pfibiger
Nikhola Grenier-Pokulok is playing in the LHJMQ for "PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS

Allez les PdlESdB!

"PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS..."

"SUCKS!"

"PATRIOTES DE L’ÉCOLE SECONDAIRE DE BEAUHARNOIS..."

"SUCKS!"

Allez rouge!

billhoward
It was still better to have had him two years.

Some teams don't even get a single game out of their potential stars: [sports.yahoo.com]

JasonN95
Some teams don't even get a single game out of their potential stars: [sports.yahoo.com]

[q]The person that is missing out on everything is Trevor Lewis. Our team is still going to be a good team[," said Michigan coach Red Berenson.][/q]

When asked for comment, Lewis responded "I'm sorry, I can't hear you through this fort of money I built around myself."

So does he count as a Michigan hockey alumnus?

billhoward
We all wish Pokoluk lived up to the advance expectations. It was still better to have had him two years. The top WCHA schools have assumed they'd have their stars for only a year or two and now some of that's trickling into the ECAC and even the Ivy League.

The key returning member of the team is the coach. Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"


And let's be honest. Yes, he's a very good coach and his pleyers play his system well, but Schafer has had a lot more than "a couple good players" each year for many years now.

"Ya gotta have the horses to win" and any realistic coach knows that including Fat Mike.

Rich S

billhoward
We all wish Pokoluk lived up to the advance expectations. It was still better to have had him two years. The top WCHA schools have assumed they'd have their stars for only a year or two and now some of that's trickling into the ECAC and even the Ivy League.

The key returning member of the team is the coach. Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"

It squares perfectly with analysis like "...now some of that's trickling into the ECAC and even the Ivy League." When we land the top recruits we hope that they will stay but don't expect it anymore. I'm sure that when Corey Maggette broke Duke's early-exit cherry the Dukies got used to it as fast as we are. (Duke sucks.)

And let's be honest. Yes, he's a very good coach and his pleyers play his system well, but Schafer has had a lot more than "a couple good players" each year for many years now.

I think "a couple good players" understates the case a little also - maybe one or two in each class - but are you trying to argue that his teams have underperformed? Because that would be batshit crazy.

"Ya gotta have the horses to win" and any realistic coach knows that including Fat Mike.

I'll take our fatty over your run of screaming, unstable crazies any year.

Rich S
How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"

That assertion has been made here in recent years?

Beeeej

Beeeej

Rich S
How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"

That assertion has been made here in recent years?

In fact, it didn't use to happen at Michigan either.

Players leaving early was discussed here previously. For example, clarkson
classmates Cole and Mitchell ( he was a "goon" remember? ) left early a year apart. It was criticized roundly and referred to later here as an example of what happens at a "hockey factory" like Clarkson.

But now that guys have left early at cornell, it's ok? I'm not holding my breath waiting for any of you to refer to cornell as a "hockey factory" and it certainly isn't in my view either. But neither is Clarkson.

In no way was I inferring that Schafer's team have underperformed. In fact it's puzzling that you could even think that was my point. I am simply saying that he has had more than one or two good players in any given year. Just seeing how many guys have received post season accolades and/or have gone on to play professionally tells us that.

Please note that I didn't start the "Fat Mike" moniker. Someone on this board endorsed it. The name fits.

As for the sarcastic cheap shots about "the run of screaming unstable crazies" at Clarkson, you simply do not know what you're talking about.

Yes, Morris became louder and a bit contentious in his final couple of seasons, but your characterization is way off if you're trying to apply it to any other coaches at Tech going back as far as Bill Harrison (who was also a Civil Engineering prof, btw) in the 50s.

Your own Schafer has had quite a few instances where he lost it, did plenty of screaming, and came close to being "crazy." To a great degree, it's the nature of the business so don't be so quick to jump on a guy who screams at officials often. Remember, this is the ECAC.

Rich S
Players leaving early was discussed here previously. For example, clarkson
classmates Cole and Mitchell ( he was a "goon" remember? ) left early a year apart. It was criticized roundly and referred to later here as an example of what happens at a "hockey factory" like Clarkson.

Really? I honestly don't remember that.

Should be easy enough for you to find, though. Please let me know when you do.

Beeeej

Beeeej

Rich S
Players leaving early was discussed here previously. For example, clarkson
classmates Cole and Mitchell ( he was a "goon" remember? ) left early a year apart. It was criticized roundly and referred to later here as an example of what happens at a "hockey factory" like Clarkson.

Really? I honestly don't remember that.

Should be easy enough for you to find, though. Please let me know when you do.

Beeeej

C'mon Beeeej...Rich is just practicing for a political and/or punditry future. If he keeps makes sweeping statements without any proof or evidence in accordance with what he *wants* to be the truth, after a while they just *become* true.

Nevermind that most here know that Joe Nieuwendyk, Kent Manderville, Dan Ratushny, Jean-Marc Pelletier, and David LeNeveu are some examples of other Cornellians who have turned pro early. But apparently McKee and Pokulok were the first, if we just repeat that fact to fit an argument.

But that's right...I forgot that when anybody here thinks of the term "hockey factory," Clarkson of all schools is one of the first that springs to mind. Remember...Clarkson is a "hockey factory." Clarkson is a "hockey factory." Clarkson is a "hockey factory." There, The Truth has been achieved.

Also...George Roll never ran onto the ice during play and certainly never threw an object such as...I don't know...a clipboard onto the ice during play. So we're way off base making any Clarkson coaching comments.

RichH
Remember...Clarkson is a "hockey factory." Clarkson is a "hockey factory." Clarkson is a "hockey factory."

Is that why they've won so many national championships?

Beeeej

Rich S
How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"

That assertion has been made here in recent years?

Beeeej

I meant to respond to RichS this afternoon but didn't have the time. I'm not sure what Rich means by "recent years" but in the time I've read this board (approx. the past three years) but, like Beeeej, I don't recall anyone making that assertion. I remember mostly people discussing that while it's a shame that we lose players early semi-regularly now, it's the cost of becoming a school that can get the good players. I very much doubt that the assertion he mentioned was given any credence, if it existed.

I don't consider Cornell (or Clarkson, or any ECAC school, for that matter) to be a "hockey factory." Maybe one of those Minnesota high schools...that's about it. I'd hope that the fact that McKee and Pokulok left early means that professional scouts are paying attention to our team and our recruits, and that it in turn brings in better recruits, giving us a better shot at the national title. Plus, it means I have a reason to watch the NHL now I'm just waiting for some Cornell player to visit Pensacola so I have a reason to cheer at the Ice Pilots games...Dustin Traylen isn't enough!

Has it occurred to anyone that Sasha really had no other options at this point in his career. I don't think it is any secret that academically his career at Cornell was finished.

CUFan
Has it occurred to anyone that Sasha really had no other options at this point in his career. I don't think it is any secret that academically his career at Cornell was finished.

Other than the standouts that make the all-academic team, and those like McKee who willingly proffer their GPAs to the media for good reason, are players' grades usually matters of public record?

That said, I'd heard rumors along those lines as well.

Rich, what the hell are you talking about? I, like others here, don't recall anything remotely like what you're describing happening on this board.

Why don't you just ask it "Sopranos style"...you know..."WTF???"

Sounds like you've forgotten the shots taken at Clarkson here not long ago, specifically re: Cole and Mitchell having left early. That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

Yes, it is a product of recruiting highly talented kids who aim to play professionally. Schafer, like every other coach before him who has lost top players, Berenson and Morris, e'g., acknowledge it as someone said earlier.

Therefore, my tongue in cheek remark that now that Cornell has lost a few in the last couple of seasons, you should either be consistent and refer to it as another "factory". Or do the enlightened thing and agree with Liz that none of the ECAC schools are "factories."

Pokoluk had academic issues? I thought all Red hockey players were Academic All American material? Guess not. No other schools' are either so don't feel bad.

For fun, you could do some research. If you're old enough, you'll recall Kevin Petit from the '70 NCAA title team. How did his senior year end in '71? Or ask an older alumnus.

Again, it happens to all programs to some degree. Just don't try to sell that it never happens at Cornell.

RichS
That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

Again: When?

RichS
Pokoluk had academic issues? I thought all Red hockey players were Academic All American material?

Did someone here suggest that? When?

RichS
Just don't try to sell that it never happens at Cornell.

Who did that? When?

Nothing personal, just not taking your word for it 'til I see pointers to posts.

Beeeej

Beeeej

RichS
That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

Again: When?

Well, there are all of these posts. Oh, wait...

Beeeej

I don't consider Cornell (or Clarkson, or any ECAC school, for that matter) to be a "hockey factory."

Yeah, I've always considered our guys to be handcrafted. Mike Schafer's works of art.

RichS
Sounds like you've forgotten the shots taken at Clarkson here not long ago, specifically re: Cole and Mitchell having left early. That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

Because I have no memory of this, I just searched for "hockey factory," "Clarkson factory," and "Cole Mitchell." "Factory" only gave me results in this thread and the word "satisfactory." "Cole Mitchell" also gave me an extended thread entitled US Olympians but mostly talking about whether or not Clarkson is a bunch of goons and one post in a thread from last December about whether the sizes of ECAC players has been increasing and why (and whether that had to do with our lack of dominance last fall). I think you're either imagining this or remembering it from somewhere else. If not, please direct me to what I'm missing.

[q]Pokoluk had academic issues? I thought all Red hockey players were Academic All American material? Guess not. No other schools' are either so don't feel bad. [/q]

This seems simply mean-spirited.

[q]Again, it happens to all programs to some degree. Just don't try to sell that it never happens at Cornell.[/q]

I'm not sure whether you're referring to academic issues or the "hockey factory" here. I dealt with the latter above; regarding the former, you may have a point. We do have a certain amount of pride in the smarts/work needed to get into Cornell, but I don't think anyone has said, per se, that Cornellians always do well in college, and I'd argue heartily against that if I saw it.

Edited to add: I was beaten, in much more succint terms. Oh well

longtimered
Beeeej

I don't consider Cornell (or Clarkson, or any ECAC school, for that matter) to be a "hockey factory."

Yeah, I've always considered our guys to be handcrafted. Mike Schafer's works of art.

Not that I would disagree with the sentiment, but you're quoting Liz '05, not me.

Beeeej

Beeeej

longtimered
Beeeej

I don't consider Cornell (or Clarkson, or any ECAC school, for that matter) to be a "hockey factory."

Yeah, I've always considered our guys to be handcrafted. Mike Schafer's works of art.

Not that I would disagree with the sentiment, but you're quoting Liz '05, not me.

Beeeej

I like the sentiment too

RichS
Sounds like you've forgotten the shots taken at Clarkson here not long ago, specifically re: Cole and Mitchell having left early. That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

While it's no secret that I and others have taken shots at Clarkson in the past (and at Mitchell in particular), and for any number of reasons (whether you feel them to be legitimate or not), I think you're talking out your ass if you're claiming that those shots were for the reason that Cole and Mitchell left early.

Beeeej

RichS
That's what I'm talking about, when Clarkson was referred to as a "hockey factory" along with many other schools that have lost players early.

Again: When?

If it happened at all, I'm guessing it would have happened in 1999 or 2000, when Cole and Mitchell actually left college.

Back then, the eLynah Forum was maintained by Kyle Rose (he's a GENIUS - just ask him! - Hi Kyle!) and was called the Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum, Clarkson had a substantially stronger hockey team than Cornell, and I don't think anyone was particularly concerned about any Cornell players leaving early. Those concerns didn't come about during Schafer's tenure until the class of 2004 came in - and even then there weren't any serious concerns about Cornell players leaving early until LeNeveu's amazing sophomore season.

Between 1998 and 2000, it would have been reasonable, albeit in poor form, for a Cornell fan to bitterly and derisively call Clarkson a "hockey factory" since Clarkson had a top 10 team every year, offered athletic scholarships, and flamed out in the NCAAs while Cornell was struggling to get home ice for the playoffs. But just because a bitter opposing fan says it in the heat of an online argument doesn't make it the opinion of the opposing fan base, nor does it reflect the opinion of that fan base SIX YEARS later.

Me? I remember being very happy that Cole and Mitchell left. Cole because he was so frickin' good, and Mitchell because that meant that Coach Schafer didn't have to wear a helmet anymore on the bench at Cheel.

Rich S

billhoward
We all wish Pokoluk lived up to the advance expectations. It was still better to have had him two years. The top WCHA schools have assumed they'd have their stars for only a year or two and now some of that's trickling into the ECAC and even the Ivy League.

The key returning member of the team is the coach. Schafer's system gets an incredible run out of a couple good players and four solid lines.

How does McKee and Pokoluk having left early square with the assertion made here in recent years that guys leaving early happens only at "hockey factories?"


And let's be honest. Yes, he's a very good coach and his pleyers play his system well, but Schafer has had a lot more than "a couple good players" each year for many years now.

"Ya gotta have the horses to win" and any realistic coach knows that including Fat Mike.

My, we're getting testy early on in the pre, pre-season, and I had only nice things to say over on Other Sports about all the Clarkson lads coaching my and some neighbors' kids up at the Lake Placid CanAm program.

With a Clarkson man, the obvious perhaps can never be too obvious. Hockey Factory, unlike say pregnancy, has gradations. Lots of guys bail early from North Dakota. That makes it a lot easier to call a "hockey factory," and a damned pleasant factory to work in, too. An Ivy or ECACHL school loses a player now and then, say one a year in Cornell's case, and that doesn't mean Lynah or Cheel just sproouted smokestacks.

Just noticed the typo. You of course meant Phat Mike.

>>> For fun, you could do some research. If you're old enough, you'll recall Kevin Petit from the '70 NCAA title team. How did his senior year end in '71? Or ask an older alumnus.

According to the history books, Kevin Pettit had a chance to break one of Cornell's most cherished records and, heading into the final game, he was still impossibly short. (Well, in stature, too.) But thanks to a couple minors and a misconduct late in the third, he managed to latch onto that single season record.

On the ice, he was a very valuable player, notwithstanding his propensity to take penalties.

But how did his senior year end academically?

RichS
But how did his senior year end academically?

Who gives a shit anymore?

Why don't you go back to your boring Round Table and continue your brain-dead discussion about academics with Petal? Let me tell you something: I worked for the #1 technology company there was and we didn't give one healthy shit about Clarkson. Your bullshit about what high-tech companies think of your third tier school is typical of you: pure nonsense.

Tom Lento
Back then, the eLynah Forum was maintained by Kyle Rose (he's a GENIUS - just ask him! - Hi Kyle!) and was called the Cornell Hockey Discussion Forum, Clarkson had a substantially stronger hockey team than Cornell, and I don't think anyone was particularly concerned about any Cornell players leaving early. Those concerns didn't come about during Schafer's tenure until the class of 2004 came in - and even then there weren't any serious concerns about Cornell players leaving early until LeNeveu's amazing sophomore season.

LeNeveu was not the first Schafer-era player to leave early for the pros; Jean-Marc Pelletier was, in 1997. So even in 1999 and 2000, for a Cornellian to make the argument that such a thing only happens at a "hockey factory" would require an extremely short memory.

I don't assert that it's impossible such a thing happened, I just choose not to take RichS's word for it.

Beeeej

Al DeFlorio

RichS
But how did his senior year end academically?

Who gives a shit anymore?

Why don't you go back to your boring Round Table and continue your brain-dead discussion about academics with Petal? Let me tell you something: I worked for the #1 technology company there was and we didn't give one healthy shit about Clarkson. Your bullshit about what high-tech companies think of your third tier school is typical of you: pure nonsense.

Al, thanks for the hysterical laugh you gave me. But you really should calm down though. Your anger and bitterness is getting the best of you.

Even for you, who has had an ax to grind for Clarkson for as long as I've read your "brain-dead" posts, the above is pretty harsh and tasteless as well as being grossly inaccurate. So much so that it's hilarious and can't be taken seriously.

But it's entirely predictable since most of what you've had to say over the years about Clarkson in any area has been "pure nonsense."

The fact is that Clarkson has an outstanding reputation among companies in the engineering, science AND high tech fields. One can ask anyone who isn't named Al D and who doesn't wear the old glasses you have. Or consult corporate recruiters.

Your claim that your former employer didn't care about Clarkson doesn't impress me a bit. How it could be "the #1 technology company there was" is hard to imagine. How did they tolerate someone so cynical, antagonistic, and full of vitriol?

The claim would be believed only by one who buys everything you've been peddling about your having been associated with only "#1s"...everything about cornell, the institution, it's hockey program and all cornell athletes both on and off the playing fields, all of whom were brilliant scholars, etc, and your twisted opinions of Engineering and Science institutions. Sorry, no sale.

Pettit? He's relevant as a well-publicized example throughout the college hockey world in '71 of an exception to all the blather you've been spouting for years. What was that sterling GPA he achieved just before his very timely demise as a senior?

Is it college hockey season yet?

Tom Lento
Kyle Rose (he's a GENIUS - just ask him! - Hi Kyle!)

Alas, I fear it is no longer true. All that beer, all those brain cells...

Kyle

Beeeej
LeNeveu was not the first Schafer-era player to leave early for the pros; Jean-Marc Pelletier was, in 1997.

Not to mention the pre-Schafer early departures of Manderville and Ratushny.

ugarte

Beeeej
LeNeveu was not the first Schafer-era player to leave early for the pros; Jean-Marc Pelletier was, in 1997.

Not to mention the pre-Schafer early departures of Manderville and Ratushny.

...and Duffus.

Beeeej

Did you really have to go back over 30 years to find a good example of this?

RichS

Al, thanks for the hysterical laugh you gave me. But you really should calm down though. Your anger and bitterness is getting the best of you.

Even for you, who has had an ax to grind for Clarkson for as long as I've read your "brain-dead" posts, the above is pretty harsh and tasteless as well as being grossly inaccurate. So much so that it's hilarious and can't be taken seriously.

But it's entirely predictable since most of what you've had to say over the years about Clarkson in any area has been "pure nonsense."

The fact is that Clarkson has an outstanding reputation among companies in the engineering, science AND high tech fields. One can ask anyone who isn't named Al D and who doesn't wear the old glasses you have. Or consult corporate recruiters.

Your claim that your former employer didn't care about Clarkson doesn't impress me a bit. How it could be "the #1 technology company there was" is hard to imagine. How did they tolerate someone so cynical, antagonistic, and full of vitriol?

The claim would be believed only by one who buys everything you've been peddling about your having been associated with only "#1s"...everything about cornell, the institution, it's hockey program and all cornell athletes both on and off the playing fields, all of whom were brilliant scholars, etc, and your twisted opinions of Engineering and Science institutions. Sorry, no sale.

Pettit? He's relevant as a well-publicized example throughout the college hockey world in '71 of an exception to all the blather you've been spouting for years. What was that sterling GPA he achieved just before his very timely demise as a senior?

Could someone who has taken abnormal psychology please give us a diagnosis here?

Perhaps caused by too much incense during Hokehankisd?

Beeeej

Tom Lento
I don't think anyone was particularly concerned about any Cornell players leaving early. Those concerns didn't come about during Schafer's tenure until the class of 2004 came in - and even then there weren't any serious concerns about Cornell players leaving early until LeNeveu's amazing sophomore season.

LeNeveu was not the first Schafer-era player to leave early for the pros; Jean-Marc Pelletier was, in 1997. So even in 1999 and 2000, for a Cornellian to make the argument that such a thing only happens at a "hockey factory" would require an extremely short memory.

I don't assert that it's impossible such a thing happened, I just choose not to take RichS's word for it.

I forgot about JMP, and certainly anyone asserting that early departures only happen at hockey factories would be totally wrong. However, I stand by my original assessment that hardly anybody was concerned about Schafer's players leaving early at that time. JMP's departure was fairly surprising, and attributed more to a lack of PT than him being an all-world netminder. Remember, Jason Elliott was still the starting goaltender that year.

Calling Clarkson a hockey factory when two players leave early isn't necessarily a matter of suggesting that early departures only happen at hockey factories. In fact, in my post, I never directly connected the two (see the final paragraph), although apparently RichS did.

I'd almost go so far as to say it's likely that somebody, somewhere on the old CHDF called Clarkson a hockey factory, but if it did happen I give it nearly even odds that the person was joking, and even odds that it was an isolated incident involving a couple of bitter fans.

I'm also not willing to take RichS's word for it, since I always thought the typical Cornell fan had a healthy respect for Clarkson.

I have to say I agree. Clarkson is a third tier engineering school at best and for anything outside of engineering it might as well be a good community college. It's certainly not on the par of even an RPI.

Reminds me of one of my favorite cheers:

<- IVY LEAGUE... SAFETY SCHOOL->

And just so you don't think I'm unfairly picking on Clarkson - there are certainly a lot of schools out there below third tier, but to call Clarkson anything but an upstate safety school in the middle of God-forsaken nowhere would be a lie. Someone's going to have to show me the person who listed Clarkson as their first choice (if they did you can bet there was a community college or two on that list of other schools).

On the ice, I have a healthy respect for Clarkson and we all remember 3 years ago. Clarkson can't be dismissed on the ice, but off it, not an academic force with which to be reckoned.

What are you smoking? Clarkson and a community college on the same list? I would really like to know what rankings or reviews gave you that idea.

I intended to go to Clarkson if I couldn't afford Cornell or MIT. In fact I expected I'd be going there until Cornell came through with a generous financial aid offer. I suppose that means my ranking of the schools I applied to was

1. Cornell
2. MIT
3. Clarkson
4. RPI
5. SUNY Binghamton

Clarkson and RPI both strike me as good regional tech/science schools, sort of like Harvey Mudd is in California.

cth95
What are you smoking? Clarkson and a community college on the same list? I would really like to know what rankings or reviews gave you that idea.

Yeah, they sure don't hold a candle to HVCC. The grads there can transfer all their credits to "the Tute". Surely that can't be said for those boys trying to come in from the cold.

I don't know what could have happened to cause your woefully inaccurate assessment of Clarkson academically but I feel for you.

Hopefully someone close to you can set you straight.

Abnormal pysch? That's funny. Have you received any offers?

As for the Hokehankist reference, if you were trying to make a joke out of a very solemn ceremony, you failed...miserably.

Your lack of tact is appalling. Didn't you learn any decency at that "third rate" Ivy you attended?

Clarkson was actually at the top of my list... the list went

1. Clarkson
2. RPI (they gave me a boat load of money)
3. Cornell

now for the reasoning. I live in tompkins county, so cornell was too close for me. RPI's in troy, enough said. I decided on clarkson because it's not in troy, it's a good engineering school, it's in a rural area (personal preference), and they gave me a good finacial aid package.

As a contrast, my top three choices were:

1) Cornell
2) Lehigh
3) Penn

All were comparable on aid (Lehigh was a bit low), so it came down to where I really wanted to go, and on that there was no choice. And I also investigated MIT, Carnegie-Mellon, Princeton, and RPI, but dropped them from consideration for various reasons.

As someone who grew up in PA, I'd never even heard of Clarkson until I got to Cornell. Did that make me uninformed? Possibly, but it's not like they advertised much (and I got a LOT of recruiting brochures).

When I was looking at colleges, Clarkson was giving every incoming freshman a personal computer. I guess that's more recruitment than advertising, but they were certainly at the college nights I went to. But then a lot probably changed between 1978 and 1987. (Including the name of the school!)

And if you went to any kind of technical college at all and know something about computer science/programming, you should check out the John Spencer Is Dead forum.

Jerseygirl
And if you went to any kind of technical college at all and know something about computer science/programming, you should check out the John Spencer Is Dead forum.

Ah, thread drift.

Thankfully, this thread has lost some of its bias. To say that Clarkson is no better than a community college is idiotic. On the other hand, few will dispute that Cornell has an excellent engineering reputation. In academics alone, Cornell does have better professors and more intelligent students than Clarkson. However, as much as RichS may get on some of your nerves, we can handle ourselves with a bit more class than we've previously shown on this forum. Besides, Cornell is the easiest Ivy to get in to.

canuck89
Cornell is the easiest Ivy to get in to.

And the hardest to get out of.

canuck89
Thankfully, this thread has lost some of its bias. To say that Clarkson is no better than a community college is idiotic.

To be fair, the person who talked about Clarkson and a community college 'on the same list', was not saying they were the same level.

The poster was saying that... in the realm of college selections, where people have 'reach', 'goal', and 'target' schools... if Clarkson was your 'reach', there would probably a community college much lower on your list.

I'm not saying I agree, but its different than saying that Clarkson is a community college.


That post did, however, say that for anything but engineering, Clarkson isn't much better than a community college. I kinda doubt that as well, but at least none of it was so cut and dry as 'Clarkson is no better than a community college', which would be just ludicrous.