Andy Noel

After reading all these posts declaring the evils of Cornell Athletics, I am wondering if someone has something positive to say about Andy Noel or the current Athletics crew.

If not, well.. silence speaks volumes.

Well, Laura always posted (and i hope continues to post) the satellite coordinates for the television feeds here at elynah, so I know how to tune the games even though I dont have DirectTV.

I know one of the ushers in Lynah, and is one of the nicest people I know. I always go talk to him during intermissions, and he always give me and my friends candy. Technically, he's an athletics employee, right?

If you can't say something nice...

Rich Hovorka '96 wrote:

I know one of the ushers in Lynah, and is one of the nicest people I know. I always go talk to him during intermissions, and he always give me and my friends candy. Technically, he's an athletics employee, right?

Are you sure that's not Jim Hyla? (Well, he's nice and he gives people candy, anyway...)

Of course, Schafer is an athletics employee, and we like him, so they're not ALL bad.

Richard Wallding, the Assistant Manager of the bowling alley, is great. He also teaches the bowling phys ed class. There are newspaper clips on the walls there proclaiming Rich to be "one of the finest instructors in the northeast!"

Whenever you are having a bad day, I highly recommend you go have a beer with Rich at the bowling alley. And when bowling a bad game, just remember what he says during his class, "Nine issss GOOD!"

We shouldn't be knee-jerk about condemning the whole Athletic Department. Instead, we should be specific about what we don't like. And I suggest no ad hominum attacks, unless -- well -- you really don't like somebody in general (personally I don't know any of 'em except Laura).

Bonehead stuff we hate:

1. The petty pay per listen netcasts.
2. The ugly new emblem *
3. The inane "spirit of the red" motto.

* for that somebody needs to be ritually disembowled between periods.


What else?

I have played golf with Andy Noel on a couple of occasions and personally I think he's a great guy. He truly loves Cornell athletics and supports the programs as much as he can. I have been impressed with him every time I have gotten a chance to talk to him.

I happen to like Andy as a human being, too. Of course he and others in Athletics make decisions differently from the ones we would make - and we can judge them for it, but we can't say we know all of the factors that went into their decisions or all of the competing pressures they were under when they made them. I wonder how many of us would do as good a job managing such a large organization with so many competing interests and audiences?

Beeeej

P.S. The new logo and the paid subscription webcasts suck.

. . .but Age's new logo is awesome. . .maybe we should send it to Athletics and see what they think???

I'm sorry the billboard on 13 N in Dryden is absolutley terrible. Just look at it. A guy in a teddy bear hat in a Heisman pose.

there exists such a billboard?!?!?

Tom Tone wrote:

I'm sorry the billboard on 13 N in Dryden is absolutley terrible. Just look at it. A guy in a teddy bear hat in a Heisman pose.

You think that billboard is bad, you should see the one on 13N coming into Ithaca through Newfield. It's this woman who looks like Ellen DeGeneres with her face painted red. It's scary.

Me, work for the Athletic Dept.? Well, let me think about that.

Well, their decision-making processes are arthritic.

Good one Al. For the rest of you, he was taking off on the fact that I'm a rheumatologist.

Well, I think I've held my tongue long enough. My limited interactions with Mr. Noel have proven him to be the single most unprofessional University official I have ever encountered. Does he love and support Cornell Athletics? Without a doubt; I don't think he would've taken the job if he didn't. I've seen him present at many Athletic events, both home and away. And I'm sure he's able to act in a pleasant manner in a cordial setting. However, the temper-laden and needlessly confrontational demonstrations I've personally witnessed, which included a moment where it seemed he was very close to physically striking an individual in a public place, have demolished any respect I had or possibly could ever have for the man. If he is the person representing the administration of Cornell Athletics, then my perception of the entire department will be very negative until he is no longer in that position.

That's really all I'll say on the issue.

I was involved in such a confrontation with Andy back at the height of the ushers' "crackdown" on fan "obscenity" by standing at the bottom of the aisles. The fans around me were complaining that the usher was blocking our view of the game - he blocked my view of the crease. I pointed back at Andy and suggested that he'd ordered the crackdown and keeping fans from viewing events was crazy. He ranted a bit, and Robin Knuutila (one of the more courteous ushers) broke things up and suggested to the other usher that he didn't need to stand there during the whole game - just as opponents' penalties were being called.

I encountered Andy the next day outside of Schoellkopf and he apologized profusely. We've had pretty cordial relations since, but the crackdown HAD gone too far and he realized that.

Athletic administrators have much of the passion that made them successful as athletes, but that often clashes with the need for more politic tact and consensus-building skills to get things done. I think the improvements to facilities that have been made are fine, but the idea of selling out to OCSN and the CornellPass idea should have been rejected in favor of efforts by the ardent supporters who'd worked to provide net access and content in the first place.

Ken '71

Rich Hovorka '96 wrote:

...where it seemed he was very close to physically striking an individual in a public place

Ummm. Wasn't it you he almost took a swing at in Schoellkopf?

Yeeeeahh...Rich is THE MAN!!!!

Keep preaching the faith...9 IS GOOD!!!

I used to be an employee of the athletics department (statistician for sprint football, lacrosse, basketball) with Laura and Pat Gillespie and I really don't understand why you guys have such big problems with the department. Maybe I'm out of touch having been out of school for a few years...who knows?

I must say that I actually thought that the new logo was kind of cool...makes Cornell look a bit more 'professional' if you will. I was there during the beginning of this transition, and for the most part, I always thought it was good that Cornell was trying to make their marketing materials look better.

I do agree that maybe some of their ideas were anti-traditionalist (anyone remember that SUBWAY challenge? do they still do that? I just remember everyone booing as the Subway challenge took the ice between periods). But, bottom line is that all of these things...CornellPass or whatever...make money for the athletics department, which makes it possible to provide audio feeds, etc for us fans. None of these things come free for the school. Anywaaaaay...someone please clarify/recap for me the exact reasons that you are all pissed off at them...

[q] None of these things come free for the school [/q]

Jason, Age has already stated that he was willing to that he was willing to provide audio AND video feeds for free. Cornell just won't let him.

Jason Demby '99 wrote:

...someone please clarify/recap for me the exact reasons that you are all pissed off at them...

Well, Jason, let's start by saying Vermont, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Colgate, RPI, Union, Yale, Brown, Harvard, and Dartmouth all thought enough of their fan following to find a way to provide free Internet broadcasts for them this season--despite Laura's whining "Internet upheaval." They just tried harder--and cared more.

Where would you rank the Faithful among the fans of those ten schools for their loyalty to school and team?

Ken Deschere wrote:

...the idea of selling out to OCSN and the CornellPass idea should have been rejected in favor of efforts by the ardent supporters who'd worked to provide net access and content in the first place.

Ken '71

Bravo, Ken.

Seems to me any protest sent to Athletics or elsewhere has to include this sentiment. The whole thing has just reeked of a "let 'em eat cake" attitude.

A slight clarification. They can't let me do it now because they're in a legally binding contract. The fault lies with them not taking the 14 seconds to drop me an e-mail and ask before doing so, and going around telling everyone that all avenues were explored.

On the other hand, they might no have listened, as didn't seem to believe me when I said I could have handled all the sports quite easily. They live in their own intellectual vacuum over there and revel in it.

Age Manocchia '98 wrote:

...as Anita Brenner didn't seem to believe me when I said I could have handled all the sports quite easily. They live in their own intellectual vacuum over there and revel in it.

I suspect part of the problem we're dealing with now is the setting in of a "bunker mentality." They're in the mode of justifying why what they did was right--and defending it to the death--instead of looking at the situation with an open mind.

That's a good point, Al. It also reeks of bureaucratic stupidity. Someone was probably assigned the task of exploring other avenues, and that someone never considered talking to the fans for whatever reason. Then Athletics made this regrettable decision, probably expecting every other school on OCSN (and there are a lot of them) to do the same, and it backfired. Now they're all about defending their decision, and the stupidest thing is that if they admitted their error and put it to the fans to find a workable non-Cornellpass system for *next* year they might actually get some subscribers for the hockey feed *and* good press. Let's face it, they claim they're working to improve the fan experience. Well, this would be one obvious way of doing that, but I guess nobody ever thought to consult the fans about what would improve their experience. Hey, does this sound like pro sports to anyone?

While I do agree that Age does an amazing job and I'm sure he is more than capable of providing Cornell Athletics with all of their needs...the issue comes down to professionalism... We are not dealing with a high school athletics program here...but sometimes it seems as if a lot of people are treating it with that kind of mentality. Cornell athletics has seemingly entered a contract with the hopes of getting their SH!T (I think Brown has that word copywrited ) together when it comes to the athletic marketing/communications and I still don't see why it is such a terrible thing.

I'm sure that paid passes for online feeds will be coming to the other schools in the near future...it just seems that Cornell is on top of things a bit and is ahead of the game. Or maybe the other athletics departments have more money for that purpose? Honestly...I really don't know...

But...I don't think that there is some big conspiracy against the Cornell sports fan to see how much money they can get out of us. G-d knows that we're better fans than the fans at all of those other schools, and I think they do appreciate it.

Hell...whats the deal...now you even have to pay for zagat.com!!!!???

If they wanted to pay SalsaShark.net for it, would that make it more professional for you? The problem with people like you and the rest of the tools at athletics is that you have no grasp of how much (or little) work or technology is involed in streaming audio. Instead you jump to conclusions rather than exploring possibilities.

Al DeFlorio wrote:

...Vermont, Clarkson, St. Lawrence, Colgate, RPI, Union, Yale, Brown, Harvard, and Dartmouth all thought enough of their fan following to find a way to provide free Internet broadcasts for them this season...

Rich and I talked about this the other night. What we really couldn't figure out was, who the hell is paying to listen to Princeton hockey online?

That's why it didn't matter which approach they chose. It affected no one anyway, so it was clearly easier for Princeton to "let George do it." Who's going to object? Hockey Mom?

Sheesh...

I was trying to compliment you...and just trying to say that I feel like Cornell is trying to make their athletics program a little more professional...which I really don't think is a bad thing...

And...to help you out a little...I'M A WEB DEVELOPER...and I DO know what is involved in streaming audio as we provide live market calls to our financial advisors on the website that I work on...

I'm not jumping to any kind of conclusions at all...and I am by no means saying that Cornell athletics is making all of the best/most cost effective decisions. But, I don't see how this is all as terrible as it is made out to be by some people. I personally have no intentions of buying CornellPass...thank goodness for our opponents audio streams...and I do think it sucks to have to pay for it. But, in the grand scheme of things, I think that the department is probably trying to make the our experience better.

Jason, have you seen Age's Video/Audio feed? It used to be DAMN good. Even if you pay, you are guaranteed to get a worse experience that what existed last year. (Audio and Video being unsynchronized). If by professionalism you mean a guaranteed feed. Age didn't miss a single one last year. If you mean quality, it was most definitely there.

If you mean selling out to a corporation because you believe that Corporations under contract can do a better job than a bunch of rabid fans. Then I don't know what to tell you.

Athletics says that every other school will have a pay system in place next year. That is, first of all, a terrible reason to do things. Second, I believe its a lie. We'll find out next year if every other ECAC University stops their transmissions I guess.

The trouble with that outlook, Jason, is that it ignores the fact that Athletics already has a real contract with a real broadcast operation to deliver an audio performance of Cornell Athletics events to listeners.

WVBR set the bar back in 1997 when it implemented streaming online audio for its coverage of Big Red Football. WVBR knew it could do this, and knew it should, even though it cost several times as much to do it then as it would to start from scratch now -- and we don't have to start from scratch now.

When, later that fall, the fledgling Cornell Sports Marketing suddenly pulled the hockey season away from WVBR and put it on an Eagle station, I had to start all over again, this time wearing my Cornell Hockey Boosters Association board member hat, and set up another streaming audio server with CHBA money. All this because Eagle Broadcasting didn't see it was their responsibility or problem to provide Internet streaming, and Athletics didn't feel it was important enough to push for. The same is true now; if Athletics didn't want to do this themselves, no matter how easy that would have been, they could have made it part of the deal with Eagle.

Cornell/CHA still owns the equipment that we did this with. It provided the backup feed linked from the 14850 Magazine site last winter that many folks used when the Yahoo! Broadcast service wasn't working properly for a variety of reasons. It could again be pressed into service, if Athletics wanted to do their own streaming.

The whole thing just reeked of a "let 'em eat cake" attitude.

. . .haven't been around here in awhile, huh? that's the way everything is run these days.

I have never seen it, but I do believe that Age's feed was probably great and its quality or reliability would NOT be improved by having a corporation do it.

But...I do think there is something to be said for having one cohesive corporation providing sports marketing/communication for the entire university. So...if that is 'selling out' then I guess I'm a terrible human being for thinking that it might not be the worst thing. You know...I'm just looking for the day when I can go to a regular college sports website and find some Cornell athletics gear to buy... It shouldn't be as difficult as it is to buy myself a Cornell hockey jersey... When is our Nike contract coming!!!???

Selling out wasn't the right word.

I do think that having one cohesive corporation providing sports marketing/communication is a terrible thing when they do less with more. Especially when they take away what alumni fans were already providing for free.

Oh. . .you must mean the Nike and Vodafone contracts??? They are slated to begin in 2004. But this is only after they tear down Lynah and build a new 12,000 seat piece of crap that looks like the new wrestling center.

but I could be wrong. . .

Jason, "Cornell Sports Marketing" was a business venture, a division of Host Communications, a.k.a. USA Sports, that was intended to provide a central point of coordination for marketing Cornell Athletics. Scott Malaga '89 was the first general manager.

CSM was responsible for arranging broadcasts, for promoting ticket sales, for setting up the "Coaches Corner" radio talk show, and for such promotional gimmicks as the Subway Challenge.

Last summer, Athletics gave CSM the heave-ho, since it wasn't generating as much revenue for the University as had been hoped. They're now handling all of this internally again.

A word about what happens in a typical IT company. The people making decisions tend to have gladhanding business/marketing skills with no technical knowledge. They are severely defensive, especially since every prick who has ever written a line of Perl affects a studied Simpsons Comic Store Man snide superiority. So you get decision-makers who fake their way through the workday too scared to ask questions and be ridiculed, and technoserfs who toil inside a fortress of angrily dismissive victimization. The decisions (i.e., guesses) that get made in this environment are inevitably going to be ill-informed and horrendously stupid.

Jason Demby wrote:
[Q]I feel like Cornell is trying to make their athletics program a little more professional...which I really don't think is a bad thing... [/Q]
Be careful with the use of the word "professional." After all this is a college program, and therefore is supposed to be amateur by definition. I know you probably mean "more polished in marketing and presentation," but these days it's very easy to treat college sports as you would professional sports, which I feel only leads to corruption and misuse of alleged "student-athletes" in big-time college athletic programs. I hold the old-fashioned (and apparently stupid) idealistic view that college athletics exist to offer student-athletes a chance to compete as a compliment to their studies. Silly, I know, when many so-called academic institutions have converted their football and basketball teams into glorified minor leagues for the NFL and NBA in exchange for million$. That's why I value Ivy League athletics so much, because we tend to be closer to that purer amateur ideal.

In that model, the Athletic department exists to ensure that the student athlete gets as fulfilling an experience as s/he possibly can, provide and maintain the facilities for the athletes and fans, and communicate with other institutions for the sake of providing interscholastic competition. By becoming more like "professional" sports, they overstep the bounds of this ideal. It's a fine line to walk, really...providing for the amateur athletes, while finding the resources and money needed to do so adequately. As crazy as he was (CEO of Athletics? Spirit of the Red?), Charlie Moore actually did a good job of walking that line. The current administration seems much more interested in solidifying corporate relationships than anything else. When that happens, it's easier to have the door open to corruption than before.

No, this isn't high school hockey, but it isn't the Colorado Avalanche either. And that's just one reason why I choose to be a fan here. I would watch our team if they went 0-29 and were forced to play at Cass Park. Why? Because they chose to be Cornellians and represent my school on the ice in competition. Not because of how much money Athletics spent on presentation and marketing, or any attempts to appear "professional." In my mind, amateur athletics should be as different from professional sports as possible.

Amen, Rich.

A very articulate statement of why I no longer have the slightest interest in "big-time" college sports, and hope to see the Ivy approach continued without corruption.

Greg wrote:

every prick who has ever written a line of Perl affects a studied Simpsons Comic Store Man snide superiority.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

OK, my two cents worth.

I'm not particularly inflamed at plunking down some money to listen over the internet to the hockey broadcasts. They are providing a service, and as long as they're going to make sure that service is reliable, I'm willing to pay a nominal fee.

The Skeptical Bear Logo. Now, there's an issue that gets me irritated. A year ago we had a perfectly fine, intellectual-looking bear, the best athletic symbol in the nation (where else will you find a mascot who looks like he's thinking?). But like professional sports must re-color their jerseys every so often to cajole their bovine herds go out and buy new apparel, so thunk the Cornell administration. We can make more money by changing our logo! They'll buy the new t-shirts! We'll be rich!

Whatever you do, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE never buy anything with that ugly new logo on it. Let's let them know that tradition counts for something at our school. The skeptical bear is Cornell.

The older I get, the less I want to give money to Cornell. I love Cornell hockey, I love the thought of Cornell, a university where at one time I learned a lot and where I hope the current generation of students are having their minds stretched. But Cornell seems no less soulless in its pursuit of the almighty dollar than anywhere else these days. It feels sometimes like a grand money-making scheme, where the purpose of education is but to raise a crop of healthy rich alumni donation machines. It bothers me to watch Cornell whoring itself out just like any other business in pursuit of that almighty dollar.

Well, I've tried to explain why they had the new logo made. It's not for the reasons you state (at least not primarily). Feel free to maintain that the new logo is crap, though.

To me the saddest thing about all of this, is that Coach did not even know this was happenning. I mean, maybe he doesn't care, but don't you think he ought to know about it before one of us asks him a question about it?

Unfortunately, this was just done poorly, and there is no way around that. Someone from Athletics should fess up and say they made a mistake, and that they will look into making it better (better later than never), and let us all enjoy a wonderful season.

Jim Hyla '67 wrote:

Someone from Athletics should fess up and say they made a mistake, and that they will look into making it better (better later than never), and let us all enjoy a wonderful season.

Jim, I said exactly that in my email to Anita Brenner sent two days ago. I'm not hopeful, however. I think they've hunkered down and are stonewalling, but I'd really like to be wrong.

We'll see if it takes 39 days to get a response this time.

I'm sure that Schafer does care, and that he cares a lot. However, as we all realize, he's got more pressing issues right now. The fact that he heard the news through a chat session underscores that the real problem with the Athletic Department is communication and, not entirely separately, respect. With regards to the former, it's cliched, predictable, corporate-style press releases in lieu of real explanations (as I said before, the switch to OCSN doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does others, but I share the distaste for the manner in which it and resultant complaints have been handled). It's a shame that the lack of communication extended to the most important figure in a sport that has (by far) the closest relationship with its fans.

My biggest complaints are the things Rich mentioned about Andy Noel and those stupid new logos. I know the old one was university-owned and not department-owned, but I don't care. The new ones are emabarrassing. Oh, and I think the new turf at Schoelkopf is ugly (can we get some red on the field somewhere?!?), but that's over and done. Interestingly, the reason for not duplicating the red and white "CORNELL" in the endzone was that any design in the field of play increases the chances of injury because of irregularities in the turf. This line of thought clearly did not take into account that for our football team, the endzone is clearly not in the field of play.

If anybody would like to contribute to Cornell in a positive way, feel free to donate money to either of the Big Red Bands (Marching or Pep). They're entirely student-run, and if you ask nicely, maybe you can purchase a friendly wake-up call for our esteemed AD. It's been done before...

Okay, I'm rambling.

Lowell Frank '99, '03 wrote:

Interestingly, the reason for not duplicating the red and white "CORNELL" in the endzone was that any design in the field of play increases the chances of injury because of irregularities in the turf. This line of thought clearly did not take into account that for our football team, the endzone is clearly not in the field of play.

Overall, you make some excellent points in a very well thought out post Lowell.

But just for the record, I wanted to point out that a lacrosse field is 110 yards long, with the area behind the goal being a critical area of play. Thus half of each endzone is a high traffic playing surface for at least one of the other teams that uses Schoellkopf. I cannot comment on sports such as women's lax or field hockey but I suspect they might also have the same issues.


Capt Pedantry exits stage left...

I am not subscribing to the CornellPass because there are other options. And I am not happy that they started charging without asking Age or the others here if we would have funded an alternate program, but . . .

Let me just say for the nth time on n different threads: what makes everyone here think that they are entitled to something for nothing?

I suspect that in the next three years one of two things will happen: (1) the rest of the NCAA starts charging for webcasts or {2) Cornell stops. I don't think that the Athletic Department is wrong when they predict that they are plowing a course that others will follow. And I don't fault them for being an early adopter of this kind of outsourcing, even though I don't like the result.

I think they made a bad business judgment, and I think that they will realize this pretty quickly, but let's stop pretending that Andy Noel and his department are equal parts Gordon Gekko (greed), Robert Hansen (duplicity) and Bill Clinton (outright lying).

As for the logo, I preferred the old bear-leaning-with-an-expression-of-disdain to the current demon-seed lurching out of the C, but its just a logo for #$@# sake. As long as they don't put it on the uniforms, they can use Age's honey-bear logo for all I care.

[Q]Bill Clinton (outright lying). [/Q]
AHEM... "misleading"

[Q]As long as they don't put it on the uniforms, they can use Age's honey-bear logo for all I care. [/Q]
Ya know, you may be onto something there... anyone wanna write a letter w/ that suggestion?

9 is good....10 is better!

Wallding is awesome, and bowling is definitely a class you should take while you're at Cornell.

Right on, big red apple. The folks in athletics are working stiffs, just like us. They don't sit around thinking of ways to screw the alums, as many posts suggest. And who among us NEVER made a bad decision??? C'mon folks, get real. Enough with the crucifixations. Leave the personal flames out of it. And until we're privy to ALL the facts, it's just conjecture.

The reality: Andy and the administration deserve some credit for providing a championship hockey team, just as they would be blasted if the team were losing.

Actually, Coach Schafer, his assistants, and the players deserve credit for having a championship team.

*cough* *cough* shill *cough*

Justin Nachod '04 wrote:

bowling is definitely a class you should take while you're at Cornell.

Although a classmate of mine did once manage to injure himself in a bowling class...

Hehe. Age and I know a guy named Don Crego that once had to be taken out of Helen Newman Lanes on a stretcher by Cornell EMS because he blew out his knee in bowling class.

John E Hayes '98 '00 wrote:

Hehe. Age and I know a guy named Don Crego that once had to be taken out of Helen Newman Lanes on a stretcher by Cornell EMS because he blew out his knee in bowling class.

You guys know Don? I didn't know that.

It seems very odd to me that the University wouldn't allow the Athletics department to freely use the Cornell logo. I've been hearing this for years, but I just still don't really get it. What interest would Cornell have in preventing one of its own departments from using its trademark? You never see the old, superior, bear anywhere now that Athletics stopped using it, so its not even like the University uses that logo extensively.

Graham Meli '02 wrote:

You never see the old, superior, bear anywhere now that Athletics stopped using it, so its not even like the University uses that logo extensively.

Actually, the T-shirts they sent us for Zinck's night had the Big Red Square on the front and the wiseass leaning bear on the back.

Dodger 916,
I am sure that those in charge of the athletic department appreciate one of their employee’s publicly defending them. I know how hard it is to be a public figure. After watch my father deal with peoples wants, needs, and concerns, I realize that anytime a leader makes a decision, a specific but not constant group of people will be upset. I think the main concern is that this is one of the first times Cornell University (Can I say that?) has done something to make alumni actually pay to stay in contact with their alma mater; the one they love and have supported since they were undergraduates.
As an undergraduate, I have many positive and negative feelings about this university. In three years the changes I have witnessed have made me despise the university administration. It seems that every time I turn a corner, I am being charged money for petty crap. At every other Ivy League university Internet is free, or close to free, memberships to fitness centers are free, and it does not cost an arm and a leg to eat. One of the positive things I can say about this university is that the library system is amazing. I can’t even think of a single complaint. Do you know why that is true?
The library system set itself up as a service system, to service the students and university staff, and they do just that. They have tried to make things more convenient for the students through numerous improvements, although many of these improvements make their job more difficult. They accept the added work and they know it is their duty to serve the students and staff. This type of attitude makes for a stress free environment. That is the key when considering the internal stress that students already have as a result of classes, family, relationships, and so on. The fact that Cornell University has adopted a business-like management philosophy has resulted in numerous inconveniencies for staff and students. This added stress is uncalled for.
Why does Cornell feel this is in their best interest? You got me. The leaders of this university are loosing sight of the purpose of higher education. The system of higher education includes all aspects of university operations. When athletics made the decision to sign a contract with a third party business, the result was insensitive treatment of the user. Now, logically, one would think that the majority of the people using the Internet feed are alumni. Everyone knows that effective management of a university requires donations from alumni. Some people that have supported Cornell athletics over the years realize how petty a decision this was.
Cornell University has a great computer science department and many willing students. Why not look internal first? Age already had an established streaming video/audio feed, why not ask him first? Was it really all that much extra work? You guys really need to get your heads out of the sand, and take a look around. Get some feedback. Use it as constructive criticism. You are here to serve the students and alumni by providing access to championship level sports teams that are comprised of Cornell students. Why make access to one of the few gratifying aspects of being a Cornell alum more difficult.
I honestly appreciate the athletic department’s bad decision. Now alums have an idea of how the university has been treating its undergrads. I can assure you many alums would not have appreciated a “do it our way, or don’t do it at all” attitude while on campus. As an undergraduate I cannot do a whole lot about the situation, my voice is my weapon and that’s all I’ve got. It is up to the alums, they can speak with their wallets, and money talks.

Championship hockey team? What are you counting Ivy's??!? As they said on last night's West Wing (vague reference to OT thread), "go outside, spin around 3 times, and spit".....because the fact of the matter is that we haven't won s--- yet (meaning this current group).

On on a separate note, let me add how heartening it is to see how many others have had awesome experiences with Rich in bowling. I'd definitely have to rank him in the top 10 of memorable characters I encountered at Cornell. Right up there with Ron at Louie's Lunch, Prof. Marty Schefter in the gov't department, and the two sketchy maintainence guys at Gun Hill.

i LOVE shefter, urban politics was great...i saw him tooling around in his volvo the other day, and had a nice discussion with him about the merits of french vs. italian bread at wegmans

I think the guy who ran the Lanes and taught bowling classes my first few years at Cornell was named Sam Partigiani (I'm sure about the "Sam" part), and he was also fantastic. He was funny, loved the students, and really cared about what he was doing. I managed to get up to a pretty consistent 210 my second semester of bowling before - as apparently others have done before and since - I blew out my knee.

Beeeej

you got a t-shirt for zinck's night???

I've never heard of so many blown-out knees caused by bowling. These guys must teach a very strange technique.

judy '01 wrote:

you got a t-shirt for zinck's night???

Well, there were two in the Organizers' Survival Kit they sent us; I already had a number of articles of Cornell clothing I could wear, so we decided to hold a drawing and give them out as door prizes.

Adam,

Bottom line is that things cost money. You're going to be charged in some way no matter what... Wether its an extra charge that as part of the student activity fee for EVERYONE regardless of wether they use the gym or not...or just charging the people that use it. Any costs for internet or gym will be paid by the students regardless. The only difference is wether mommy and daddy blindly pick up the charge if its included in your tuition/activity fees which you wouldn't notice or complain about...or if it gets billed separately. You're seeming to forget about that little $30,000+ bill that you get charged every year... Whew...maybe we should go to Hahvahd where everything is FREEEEE


MORAL OF THE STORY:

NOTHING IS FREE!!!!

Memories of LOUIES??? Say it ain't soooooo!!!

Has the movement of freshmen to North transitioned the Cornell memories from Bob (who unfortunately has retired from what I understand) and Hot Truck to that other grease truck????

Louie's is the FAR superior red-n-white truck.

I respect Bob at the Hot Truck as a legend and his sandwiches were 'decent,' but I'm afraid that the hype is more than the substance. Bob retired during the early winter of my last year on the Hill....the new guy (Mike, I think?) lacks any personality at all. Much like his sandwiches. The Hot Truck is living off reputation, not reality.

On the other hand, Randy and Ron (Randy is the day guy and Ron is the night guy...they're brothers) at Louie's are great. They knew us by name, knew our stories, and on top of it all made a damn good sandwich. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who now, years later, still gets "Tully Withdrawl." Myself, I was partial to the Buff or the Monster.

So has the transition of frosh to north changed allegiances? Well, someone in a later class than me is probably better positioned to answer that. But I can tell you that in my upperclassman years we made an almost nightly trip from way down on Gun Hill all the way up to Louie's on north.


Certainly this will provoke some discussion. Might as well, there's still 7 hours until they drop the puck at Lynah! LGR!!

Ah, lunch time and the talk of hot trucks brings back the memory of the West Campus Truck (Johnny's Big Red) Is the electrical hookup still there?? Nothing quite like a TMBC at 1 in the morning. I lived in U-Hall 5 my freshman year (75) and I was an RA in McFaddin in 77.

Never really got into the Louies lunch thing on N. Campus (lived in High Rise 5 in 76)

Chris

Jason, I think you are missing Adam's point. . .I think he's talking about the little expenses that SHOULD be included in a $30k+ education. . .in fact you have made his argument for him. Nothing is free. . .but there is no reason to send home nit-picking bills, just lump it into the big one and that way students just don't have to worry about it.


p.s. you should leave your problems with your mommy and daddy out of your argument. it makes you sound bitter. . .

Lowell Frank '99, '03 wrote:

If anybody would like to contribute to Cornell in a positive way, feel free to donate money to either of the Big Red Bands (Marching or Pep). They're entirely student-run, and if you ask nicely, maybe you can purchase a friendly wake-up call for our esteemed AD. It's been done before...

Are you proposing a "give us money and we'll stop playing Macho Man" fundraiser, Lowell?

I tried that last year. . .it didn't work!

Brian Deerr '04 wrote:

Are you proposing a "give us money and we'll stop playing Macho Man" fundraiser, Lowell?

Brian, I will personally give YOU real U.S. money if you sabotage the next performance of Macho Man.

I do see the point of not being charged in separate bills... But you keep saying 'should be included' in a 30K + education...I still don't understand your concept of 'included in'. Also...from what I remember...when you sign up for gym/internet/etc...you can have them CornellCard it anyway, which just goes on as part of your bursar bill

But basically Cornell decided it would charge people for the specific services that they use, instead of charging everyone for services that they may not use. If it wasn't complaining about the billing...then people would be complaining about the activity fee being so high because of the charge they are paying for a gym or dorm internet service they don't use.

And Ben...when you graduate and have a full time job...if there are any left next May...and live life off of a bursar bill...then you can tell me how to deal with any problems that I may or may not have...

big red apple wrote:

I am not subscribing to the CornellPass because there are other options. And I am not happy that they started charging without asking Age or the others here if we would have funded an alternate program, but . . .

Let me just say for the nth time on n different threads: what makes everyone here think that they are entitled to something for nothing?

We're not entitled to free webcasts, but by the same token Cornell's not entitled to our donations. Universities want to instill spirit and loyalty in their alumni, but they can't have it both ways. Either we're members of the extended family or we're consumers to be dealt with according to a business model.

Jason Demby ’99 wrote:

[q]Bottom line is that things cost money. You're going to be charged in some way no matter what... Whether its an extra charge that as part of the student activity fee for EVERYONE regardless of whether they use the gym or not...or just charging the people that use it. Any costs for internet or gym will be paid by the students regardless…

Also...from what I remember...when you sign up for gym/internet/etc...you can have them CornellCard it anyway, which just goes on as part of your bursar bill.

The only difference is whether mommy and daddy blindly pick up the charge if its included in your tuition/activity fees which you wouldn't notice or complain about...or if it gets billed separately. [/q]

Well... I think you are off base. For those students with loans it is a big deal not to include all foreseeable costs in the tuition-room-and-board estimate. Those little things add up. They have to come out of pockets that are already low on money. This is the problem. If your parents won’t pay it, then what are you supposed to do? You don’t receive the service because you can’t afford the service. Why not make it an option to receive refunds for those services not used? Just give a credit to the bursar account. This allows for equal access to all services, and does make life easier.

Anyway, you totally missed the point of that statement if you thought that it had to do with money, how about lack of critical thinking, equity, foresight, and compassion.

[q]You're seeming to forget about that little $30,000+ bill that you get charged every year... Whew...maybe we should go to Hahvahd where everything is FREEEEE[/q]

F-off man. Seriously, EADAD.

People, please, for the sake of those who enjoy this board and its sense of community, could we please do without the personal attacks. This is one of the few online forums that I'm aware of were civility is generally the rule, not the exception.

agreed. . .my apologies for prior statement on this thread.

Whoa there fella...whats with the profanity?

Firstly...I was on loans/grants and all of that good stuff...so please don't tell me that I lack compassion or the understanding of what that is like. I personally worked 3 jobs while at Cornell (one of which was actually at the gym...good way to get a free membership and avoid that extra bill) and paid for everything myself...if you really must know... And part of your loans/aid/work study are actually there to cover living expenses...not just base tuition and board.

And the 'you will complain' in my statement was a general 'you'...as in people will complain no matter which way its done. It wasn't said as a personal attack towards you...so calm down. The Big Red Tape would only get bigger if you had people applying for reimbursements for services not used...

I had a great experience at Cornell, and sometimes I just don't understand why people would 'despise the university administration'. Yes...some things are less than ideal, but its really not that bad. (You could go to Hah-vahd )

So...what exactly was the point of the statement then? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but I still don't think that alumni are owed anything by the University. Donations should be a thanks for PAST experiences...after all...its a donation...not a fee you're paying what the University gives you now. We're out of college...remember? While we're all trying to hold onto our memories and make new ones through following Cornell hockey or more....we don't go to the school anymore.


And sorry to Ben and everyone else...you got me very reactionary there...I was just trying to make points...not insult anyone...

JTW wrote:
[Q]We're not entitled to free webcasts, but by the same token Cornell's not entitled to our donations. [/Q]

Absolutely true. I was responding more to the venom in the posts than the general dissatisfaction with the decision to introduce CornellPass. That said, it is up to the University to decide if the benefits of charging for internet broadcasts outweigh the costs both tangible (donations) and intangible (goodwill). The general tenor of the conversation here (not, I hasten to add, from you, John) revolves around mistaking a difference of opinion with something far more nefarious.

The point of that statement is that critical thinking, equity, foresight, and compassion have been lost in an effort to reduce the 'BIG RED TAPE '. The university is supposed to provide services for the students; this is why we pay them. The administration has adopted policies that alienate the students. Why would Cornell choose to sacrifice positive relations with students for efficiency? If you went into a restaurant and ordered a hamburger, what do you expect to be served? What would you think if you were given a raw hamburger (no bun etc.) on a plate? I bet you would go to another restaurant. Well, If other colleges and Universities can find means to provide their students with the same services, while avoiding the impersonal, and insensitive treatment, why cant Cornell University do the same?

Okay. . .I'd like to make a request for the conclusion of this discussion. Please. . .just agree to disagree. Thanks ~ Ben

so i did not read all the posts b/c i dont have time. i am not sure if anyone mentioned this but...
here we talk about cornell nickeling and diming the students, right?
cornell attempts at staying as an equal to all the ivies in anything and everything right? whatever it is they want to be a top-tier school.
how about being a top tier school when it comes to cost and financial aid?
i find it amusing that princeton and some of the other ivies are going in one direction while cornell is tending towards the opposite. I assume that some of you read this last fall but in case you didnt...
[www.princeton.edu]