[OT] a whiney Tulane student rant

And this is what I'm talking about:

[q]Hey, douchebag, you seem to forget that Cornell did take in YOUR sorry ass along with 200 other Tulane students. It seems to me that they admitted 1 too many students. How about instead of being ungrateful, making huge generalizations about 1 experience over the course of 1 semester (in which the professors even took it easy on you to help you adjust after being uprooted in the fashion you were), and complaining about walking up hills, you take a moment to thank us; its not so much to ask, you know.[/q]

He did thank us. Douchebag.

Beeeej

I think the author let his expectations about how hard Cornell was going to be warp his perception of the reality of the difficulty of the coursework. As others have already stated, if a Cornell student visited Harvard or Yale, I'd be willing to wager they'd have just about the same thing to say about the courses at those "academically superior institutions." Tulane is a good school, the students who came from Tulane are probably some of their better students, and this being the case, these kids shouldn't be overwhelmed by the coursework/difficulty of Cornell.

As for Cornell students not liking Cornell, come on. Nearly every student that I met while in school had a love/hate relationship with the university. That is part of the experience of being there, and this kid just doesn't get that.

In the end, it is just a trite "we are as smart as those Ivy Leagurs" article. Talk to any graduate student about how much harder their undergraduate course work was than the undergraduate work is at the school they are currently at and you'll get something similar to this article.

The most interesting part for me was the first comment by another Tulaner (Tulanian? Tulanee?) who claims to be an architecture student and complained about the lack of work and studio work. Isn't the general reputation of CU arch. that of LIVING in the studio for 5 years? Perhaps this suggests that the faculty didn't know what to DO with these students who they knew were only going to be around for one semester.

[Q]Not only was there hardly any school (or studio) work to do, but there was nothing fun to do either. At least, if there was- I never heard about it.[/Q]

I think this is at the heart of what seperates people who are successful at the Cornell/Ithaca life experience and those who fail at it and have a unsatisfying time. There's a plethora of fun and regionally unique things to do, but you can't sit in your home and wait to "hear about it." You have to be proactive and seek things out. You can either lead yourself to activities and people or wait to be led. You'll probably be miserable in Ithaca if you do the latter.

Providing some perspective, I'm sure people who are used to the society of cities like NYC, New Orleans, Las Vegas, etc. where parties and events are plopped in your lap, have a difficult time adjusting. It's probably the case here.

[q]I think this is at the heart of what seperates people who are successful at the Cornell/Ithaca life experience and those who fail at it and have a unsatisfying time. There's a plethora of fun and regionally unique things to do, but you can't sit in your home and wait to "hear about it." You have to be proactive and seek things out. You can either lead yourself to activities and people or wait to be led. You'll probably be miserable in Ithaca if you do the latter. [/q]In fairness, it's probably a lot harder to adjust when you're dropped in on short notice for one semester. Being proactive and finding fun things is easier when you have an established social network to build upon.

[q]In the end, it is just a trite "we are as smart as those Ivy Leagurs" article. Talk to any graduate student about how much harder their undergraduate course work was than the undergraduate work is at the school they are currently at and you'll get something similar to this article.[/q]As a grad student I was more likely to tell people how easy undergrad was. Especially when it was my students bitching about their homework, etc.

KeithK '93 '96 '98

[Q]Jason L Wrote:

Its also good to know that Tulane values their sports programs more than their academic ones.
[/q]

To be fair, Tulane's president, Scott Cowen has been an advocate for reform of intercollegiate athletics and how the professionalization of "big time" colligiate sports is incongruous with the values of higher education institutions. While this opinion seems to focus on the BCS system, it is an admirable stance.

I refer you to this page, where there is a link to President Cowen's opinion piece that ran in the NY Times in 2003.

[feedback.tulane.edu]

[Q]RichH Wrote:


I think this is at the heart of what seperates people who are successful at the Cornell/Ithaca life experience and those who fail at it and have a unsatisfying time. There's a plethora of fun and regionally unique things to do, but you can't sit in your home and wait to "hear about it." You have to be proactive and seek things out. You can either lead yourself to activities and people or wait to be led. You'll probably be miserable in Ithaca if you do the latter.

Providing some perspective, I'm sure people who are used to the society of cities like NYC, New Orleans, Las Vegas, etc. where parties and events are plopped in your lap, have a difficult time adjusting. It's probably the case here.




Edited 1 times. Last edit at 12/14/05 01:58PM by RichH.[/q]

Well said. That's what I've often said about life in the North Country, the home to Clarkson and St. Lawrence. It's interesting to hear Cornellians have the same response when someone from another region is critical of the social environment of their area.

Ineteresting largely because a lot of Cornell folk routinely belittle the North Country environment on this forum.

Bottom line is that the environment is largely what you choose to make of it. Anywhere.

A similar article by a Tulane student who spent the semester at Brown: [www.thehullabaloo.com]

[Q]ursaminor Wrote:

A similar article by a Tulane student who spent the semester at Brown: [/q]

It only took the author 3 sentences to make an inaccurate statement:

[Q] As an Ivy League school Brown, by definition, predates the American Revolution and has enjoyed a great history of distinction and tradition since 1764. [/Q]

[Q]Rich S Wrote:

Bottom line is that the environment is largely what you choose to make of it. Anywhere.[/q]

Also well said.

Before any debasing comments are thrown at my namesake, I've been able to have some really good times in the North Country. Hockey trips in general, as well as my formidable Ithaca years have really instilled an adventerous element in my personality. I really enjoy traveling to lots of places...urban and rural. My nomadic career has taken me everywhere from LA to Blacksburg, VA, and I've been able to enjoy my time at each stop. I like seeking out and finding the out of the way holes-in-the-wall and sampling local culture. I expect to do the same if I ever get to go to New Orleans.

I don't know if I would call this "similar", since it doesn't really express any opinion one way or the other and definitely doesn't totally bash Brown. I did find it interesting that the author primarlily described parties and only briefly mentioned anything academic. Since the descripiton of Brown academia only related to the unique course requirements and nothing specific, I would be curious to know if the Tulane students there found there classes easier than they had expected.

Considering that I graduated from the architecture program just a year and a half ago, I really don't understand how this person found herself bored. If she couldn't find some model to build or drawing to render, then she clearly didn't care enough about her studies. You're not given take homes or prelims in architecture, you design something and represent your design through many different methods. The professors, especially by fourth year, aren't going to hold your hand and tell you how many drawings, images, or models you should have to properly present your ideas.

As for being bored, architecture students had some of the craziest parties I've been to. Maybe this girl wanted a personal invitation but I would have thought that the posters in Rand Hall advertising these parties would have been enough to tell her where to find a good time.

I especially liked her closing comment: "rankings be damned-Tiulane wins." It may win in her mind, but those rankings are by architecture firms that rank from which universities they would most eagerly choose to hire graduates...looks like I win!

Oh yeah, Go Red!

Yeah, my impression of that Brown article:

"Parties, traditions. Oh, and they let you take whatever and it's pass-fail. What a sweet deal."

It really made Brown seem like Slacker U.

I know Cornell is well known for the Hotel School, but I have to say, ever since I first enrolled in 1990, everyone (family, friends, teachers, etc.) that found out was very impressed because of its overall reputation. I am pretty sure that most of them didn't even know about the Hotel School. I went there for Agriculture (specifically AnSci hoping to be a vet, quickly changed my mind like most students), and everyone I talked to knew the good reputation for this field. Hotelies should be rightfully proud of their degrees and rep, but I have know idea how this author did not know that so many other colleges are also regarded very highly.
It is only one example, but someone I knew that had transferred from Princeton thought that Cornell seemed easier to get into, but his classwork was more demanding than what he had experienced there.

[Q]ursaminor Wrote:

A similar article by a Tulane student who spent the semester at Brown: [/q]

I think that proves that, much like Daily Sun writers, Hullabaloo writers have varying grasps of grammar (the Tulane/Brown student being much better than the Tulane/Cornell one).

[Q]Jason L Wrote:

i understand that..but dont they have more of a commitment towards the students who are currently attending Tulane for an engineering degree to allow them to finish? I can understand them not accepting any new students into the program, but how about at least giving current freshmen 4 years to finish the program?
[/q]

Oooh, good point. I hadn't looked at the date closely enough to realize that some current students wouldn't be able to finish their degree by then. Agreed with your last sentence completely.

[Q]cth95 Wrote:
It is only one example, but someone I knew that had transferred from Princeton thought that Cornell seemed easier to get into, but his classwork was more demanding than what he had experienced there.[/q]

That reminds me of this statement (or some variation of it) which I've heard kicked around more than few times...

"Cornell is the easiest Ivy League school to get in to, but the hardest to get out of"

I have to whole-heartedly agree with this. Admittedly it would be more difficult for someone only there for a semester or two, especially if they are used to a big city, party-time environment, but it is not hard to have a good time almost anywhere if someone is willing to put just a little effort in. Having spent most of my career as a dairy farmer, I have always lived in areas where I had to find or fun. Ithaca is easy with Collegetown, fraternity parties, walks through the gorges and state parks near campus, trips to Syracuse or even NYC or Boston if you make some friends that live there. This person apparently isn't much of a sports fan, but we do have a very expansive Division I slate if someone was interested in catching a few games in different sports. We also have huge phys ed and intramural programs, a golf course (along with many nearby, low-cost courses), skating rinks, and even a bowling alley if someone wanted to play sports or just drink and have a good time.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but as I made my initial point, I just kept thinking of more and more things to do.

No grade inflation, either. I can certainly attest to that due to my roller coaster semester GPA's as my focus came and went among school, work, and other matters.

Did anyone else notice how he referenced the Faithful reading newspapers at the Harvard game and tossing objects on the ice? I found that funny, because I don't remember a home Harvard game this semester, and we definitely weren't throwing objects on the ice in Lynah East.

I never heard much about ornithology until recently. I know it is a strong department, but is he trying to be facetious by saying we are known for a relatively little-known field, or has the recent news of the rediscovery of the Ivory Billed Woodpecker really brought ornithology this far to the forefront. If so, I think our huge presence behind the unbelievably successful Mars rovers should give some pretty good clout that he seems to have missed.

Apparently speaking second-hand on this one. Good catch.

(Pardon the pun--catch,fish, just realized it myself)

While I’m sure these students love their school, they have an interesting way of showing it by slighting the institutions that reached out and provided them a refuge. As much as these accounts run counter to my experience on the hill, I can only think one thing, “to each his own.” It does not surprise me to hear their recounts of dissatisfaction; after all they did not chose to come to ithaca under the best of circumstances. But both the articles left me with the feeling that the authors were in some way trying to rationalize themselves back into their reality of a better New Orleans and their beloved Tulane.

[Q]Rich S Wrote:
Interesting largely because a lot of Cornell folk routinely belittle the North Country environment on this forum.
Bottom line is that the environment is largely what you choose to make of it. Anywhere.[/Q]
As a lifelong seasonal resident of the North Country, I agree with both RichS & RichH on this one. I absolutely love it up there and find myself out on the ice in January as much as in a boat in the middle of July.
[Q]A-ron Wrote:
As for being bored, architecture students had some of the craziest parties I've been to. Maybe this girl wanted a personal invitation but I would have thought that the posters in Rand Hall advertising these parties would have been enough to tell her where to find a good time.[/q]
I was not an architect but was friends with a handful and can attest to this firsthand.

I guess it takes all kinds.

If Cornell was so bad, I don't think that we would have one of the most proud and bonded alumni group that I have ever seen, this board being a perfect example. Almost every Cornellian I have ever met brags a little (or a lot) about our fair alma mater, and I can think of almost none that regret going there or even degrade the overall experience at all. I know we all have gripes about specific issues and departments such as the annual Ticket Line fiasco, but have any of you ever met a Cornellian that wishes they had gone to another school?

Yes, I have: [elf.elynah.com]

Good one.

Can't find the link now, but I remember reading that architecture studio classes had been fully enrolled at the time Tulane students arrived and that this option wasn't open to them. However, the link below makes it seem as if architecture tried mightily to remedy this with "fill-in" faculty:

[www.news.cornell.edu]

I can understand some homesickness for Tulane and NO and the whining about Ithaca. After all, no other place I've ever been could compete with pre-Katrina NO in terms of hospitality and opportunities for fun. However, I'm hugely proud of the effort Cornell put forth in trying to accommodate these kids, and I suspect many of them will miss the place when they're gone.

[q]but have any of you ever met a Cornellian that wishes they had gone to another school?[/q]Yes, I've met a few. But they are a small minority.

[Q]Rich S Wrote:
Ineteresting largely because a lot of Cornell folk routinely belittle the North Country environment on this forum.[/q]

And doubtless they mean every word of it, and they're not just trying to get another POP out of the jack in the box...

I guess I shouldn't have said "any", but they do seem pretty rare to me. Especially once they become alumni. I have become even more proud of Cornell since I graduated. It has provided me with a continuing network of connections (both professionally and socially) as well as with ongoing advice and consultation from my professors in the Animal Science department even though I have been out for 10 years. This includes some professors that started after I graduated whom I have met since then.

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

Other than looking like a braggart, how would that help you formulate a response to the column? Famous alumni != good school.

Beeeej[/q]

Nature? Nurture? Regardless, something brings people to Cornell besides the cooking, gorge climbing, and slope sledding. Looking over various lists I'm struck by how many different disciplines are represented -- obviously, it's not all about the Hotel School or the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. I'm always amazed at the literary impact some who've passed through Cornell have made: I believe Cornell's the only school that has produced (which may be too strong a claim) more than one Nobel winner in Literature; add to the list some other influential writers like EB White, Thomas Pynchon, Kurt Vonnegut, and this year's National Book Award winner in fiction, William Vollmann...and that doesn't get into any faculty. I just think people who get to spend some time here are pretty fortunate.

The one bummer is that when people start swapping stories about how bad their school food was, we have to shut up.

I guess I'm in the minority here (and obviously late in coming to the argument), but I can't really see why people are so bothered by this guy's article. Does he really rail on Cornell at all?

He seems disappointed with some of the social aspects, which puts him in the company of many a lazy Cornell student (except he's coming from a university with an incredibly different social environment, so it's a really large adjustment for him). He didn't exactly go on and on about how lame the student body was or anything; it was just obviously not his cup of tea.
He says that, for the most part, the classes seem easier than Tulane's, and he bases this on his one semester's worth of anecdotal evidence. Other than following it up with a disclaimer reminding us that he has but one student's short-term perspective, what more do you want from him after his honest opinion/conjecture?
He's obviously not a fan of the weather, but that was one of the mildest (so to speak) criticisms of Ithaca weather I've ever read.
He repeated a bunch of stuff he's obviously heard other students say about hockey on campus, and for someone who didn't take the time to wait in line and go to the games, he was about as accurate as one can expect.

He didn't really strike me as ungrateful, especially since he cited Cornell's hospitality in the ultimate sentence. And he didn't seem like a malcontent, because he didn't really harp on anything or slam the school overall. After reading the subject line of this thread I clicked on the link expecting the same rant I've heard from a million bad-attitude southerners before. Instead I got an opinion piece/review from a kid who chose one type of college experience (Tulane) and through circumstance ended up with a semester of a very different college experience.

I guess he could've done a more research-based "article" instead of focusing on his experiences here, where we would expect some effort on his part to get a more broad read of the school. And yes, the writing/editing is poor ("bon-a-fide?". But we've all heard many students who legitimately love Cornell and cherished their time on the hill spout actual criticism of the lesser aspects of Cornell. Why get so mad at this guy for basically giving his honest opinion?

[q]I guess he could've done a more research-based "article" instead of focusing on his experiences here, where we would expect some effort on his part to get a more broad read of the school.[/q]Without doing the "research" to verify this I imagine the paper wanted various students to write about their experiences at different schools this semester. A well researched article would be out of place.
[q]But we've all heard many students who legitimately love Cornell and cherished their time on the hill spout actual criticism of the lesser aspects of Cornell. Why get so mad at this guy for basically giving his honest opinion?[/q]It's a pretty matural first reaction to get a little defensive when someone critcizes something that you hold dear. But you're right - it's not a big deal. It's not like he called Cornellians a bunch of douchebags, as one of us called him in response.
[q]And yes, the writing/editing is poor ("bon-a-fide?". [/q]OTOH, snarking about the quality of the writing is reasonable since we tend to skewer Cornell folks for that all the time. Generally pointless and silly, but enjoyable.

I just posted a ridiculously long response in the feedback section on the site. His article was SO frustrating!!! I, for one, love Cornell

[Q]sen '08 Wrote:

And we don't even need to mention how absurd his comments on Cornell hockey were. Yes CU hockey is god, no we do not get killed every year to get tickets....[/q]

Or that we're proud of the melee. He made it sound like it's kept a secret until the last minute because there's a riot every year, when actually there was a riot because they kept the location secret and everyone stampeded to get there at the same time.

I agree it's not really that bad all told, but I still loved this response on the feedback.

[Q]And on one final note, cornell may be cold, but at least its not in the south.[/Q]

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:

I hear Tulane was offered a spot in the Ivies but turned it down.[/q]

Well, they are the Harvard of the South.

i thought that was vanderbuilt....or rice.
[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

Trotsky Wrote:

I hear Tulane was offered a spot in the Ivies but turned it down.[/Q]
Well, they are the Harvard of the South.[/q]