[OT] Clemens soooooooo gets what he deserves.

Estes hit him where it hurt the most: into the leftfield bleachers for a two run homer.

So why didn't any Met fans/players suggest this, then? All they wanted was a beaning, which makes them no better than Clemens himself. Listening to WFAN last night was comical because you had despondant Met fans calling up after the tough Friday loss. A typical comment: "I dunno what's going on. The Mets NEED to plunk Clemens to turn their season around." Huh? How about actually winning games to turn their season around? What a novel concept. Will drilling the opposing pitcher make their RF and 1B actually start hitting? Will it make their closer stop blowing big games?

But Estes even tried to drill him, and he missed! Way to take the high road. (How could you miss such a fat ass like Clemens??) And then Clemens took him down the line for a double in his 2nd AB. Probably the best "payback" (since that's what the Mets and media made this game about) was Piazza going deep. It was about those 2 players (since both teams are significantly different than they were 2 whole years ago), and now it's over. Can we please move on? Even Bobby Valentine was sick and tired of the hype over this. Most of it was morbid curiosity about the possibility of violence, and was pretty stupid and petty. And just for the record, I'm one of the all-time biggest Clemens haters.

The Offtopic threads here are getting a little out of hand, btw. (Isn't this a board about college hockey?) Just my opinion.

1) Off-topic threads will end when hockey season starts again.

2) Do you really think a caller who suggested that Estes should hit a home run off of Clemens would have made it past the call screener? (I figure you meant something broader than this, but still . . . "Can't we all just get along" is hardly what keeps sports radio in business.)

3) There is nothing more annoying than Tim McCarver (who caught Bob Gibson!) acting as though (1) pitching Piazza inside is wrong and (2) anything OTHER than drilling Clemens is appropriate baseball etiquette.

I never thought Clemens did anything wrong (clarification: I don't think he was trying to brain Piazza, but was coming high and tight on purpose; I don't think he threw the bat AT Piazza). I think Piazza is a big whiner. But I am also convinced that Piazza OWNS Clemens, and it was good to see that Piazza was able to keep hitting Clemens after the beaning.

Fans will be fans.

Friday night was quite possibly the worst loss Mets fans have experienced in the last 2 years. Hell, I felt worse last night than I did after Kenny Rogers' ball 4.

So what's comical is to listen to the FAN after that game and expect that to be the forum for logical discussion from Mets fans on the whole Clemens issue. Everything said in the last week, last night, and pretty much anytime on sports talk radio has to be taken with a grain of salt. And now that the game is over, many Mets fans and I will tell you that the win and how it happened is a lot sweeter than a loss and drilling Clemens.

Was today the best "retaliation"? No. Did he eat dirt? No. Did Roger get a sort of free pass? Yeah, maybe.

But for the majority of Mets fans, the issue is more important beyond this day. It hasn't only been Roger Clemens that has hit out best batters and gotten away with it. It's been a trend for 3 years with this team. Today was one game towards putting our foot down.

Hey now, all I wrote was that Estes gave Clemens the ideal karma shot. It's hardly been Met fans alone who have constantly reanimated the "pros and cons of beaning" hysteria. The press loves a pissing contest, all fans love to argue, New Yorkers are insanely parochial, and neither of the principal actors did or said the appropriate things that would have defused "the situation."

Bottom line is that barring a big collapse the Yankees are headed for the playoffs, while barring a small miracle the Mets aren't. The past week's foofery was a nice little detour from those two grotesque facts.

[Q]So what's comical is to listen to the FAN after that game and expect that to be the forum for logical discussion from Mets fans on the whole Clemens issue. Everything said in the last week, last night, and pretty much anytime on sports talk radio has to be taken with a grain of salt.[/Q]
Did I say that I expected the FAN discussion to be logical? No. In fact I turned on the FAN in order to be entertained, because that's what passionate sports-talk radio is...through both good and bad times.

[Q]There is nothing more annoying than Tim McCarver [/Q]
Amen to that!

[Q] I think Piazza is a big whiner.[/Q]

Can you name me ONE time Piazza complained? One time Piazza demanded/said/asked that Clemens should be hit? One time Piazza even brough the situation up unless he was being asked about it? It's the media and the fans that kept this going, NOT Piazza. Let's give some credit where credit is due: to Piazza for being nothing but a gentlemen in the middle of a media circus.

The poor guy got beaned in the head and didn't come back angry - and now gets criticized for something he didn't do. Come on guys...

-Fred

I'm not buying what you are selling. He complained to the press a lot. I can't quote from 2 year old press conferences, but I remember thinking at the time, when I watched the umpteenth press conference, that Piazza should just shut up and play. Some of that may be the media's fault, but I place a lot of the blame on Piazza for continuing to answer their questions.

I think Piazza's "restraint" in not asking his pitchers to drill Clemens is sort of like the President's restraint in not asking the Secret Service to take a bullet for him. The pitchers and the agents know exactly what their job is without being asked. (Sorry - I just watched In The Line of Fire on TBS.)

My recollection is that the worst thing Piazza said about Clemens was when he was asked if he thought the first beaning (I was at that game, btw - it was a pretty horrific moment) was intentional. His answer was, "I can respect the fact of throwing inside. I can respect the fact of getting hit in the ribs or getting hit in the body. For me, I choose to try and think of Roger Clemens as a great pitcher, but I really can't say I have respect for him."

And I don't remember him making much more out of it than that. The fans and the other players blew it way more out of proportion than Piazza (or Clemens, for that matter) ever did.

"In the Line of Fire" - maybe the best thriller ever made. It's much better uncut, too; go buy or rent a copy.

Beeeej

I was at that game as well... got last minute tickets because someone didn't want to drive two hours when it was very likely going to rain (it did and the game got cancelled, if I remember - unless I'm thinking of entirely the wrong game).

It takes a lot for players to stop answering media questions. If your team had a horrible game and the media is focusing on home runs (aka: Bonds) I've seen players ask to change the topic, but generally, if you want to get good press, you're going to have to answer questions.

All the stuff you remember, as you yourself said, happened two years ago. Piazza hasn't been bitching since. He hasn't said he wants revenge. I hate to put you in the spot on such an old happening, but I was listening to WFAN while driving back to Ithaca yesterday, and Mike (as in Mike and the Mad Dog, 'cept Mad Dog wasn't around) was saying nothing about Piazza except how gentlemanly he had been about the whole situation. I get into the house, watch Simpsons, and see you bash him.

I just not true, unless you think you can find some proof. I understand the impression, you assume the person and the middle of the storm is the one doing the talking, but it just wasn't the case.

-Fred

Fred, I respect you enough through your posts that I feel comfortable telling you:

I don't mind if we disagree about this. I have no real stake in the debate, so I have no intention of spending a second trying to back up my memory with quotes or giving this issue another thought on this forum.

Agree to disagree works by me... for my money, I'll go with Mike Francesca (sp?) when it comes to NY sports

[q]I'll go with Mike Francesca (sp?) when it comes to NY sports [/q]



Big mistake there. The guy knows little yet pretends to know it all. But if he's backing Piazza, and a Met, on this issue, then they must really be in the right, if even Francessa can't put a pompous Yankee spin on it.

Yeah, I think I was a little too blanket with that statement. I have disagreed with Francesca (and Dog for that matter) many-a-times, but when it comes to knowing athlets personally, that's what I can't argue with. PLUS, not a single person called up in the next couple hours to argue... NOT A SINGLE NYC'er disagreed on that topic... that's saying something. Not everything perhaps, but a lot.

-Fred